Myanmar man framed for British tourist murders: mother

[brewsterbudgen]

Exactly. Why would the police brutality & threats stop now when the game has raised it's stakes.

There's a widespread saying amongst thais... 'Foreigner know too much' & they refer to long term ex-pats as 'turtles' or 'tao' sadly enough. Exactly what their perception of the nature of a turtle is escapes me & doesn't really interest me.

Roughly deciphered this means that anybody with a reasonable level of intelligence who has spent enough time in thailand & perhaps learned enough thai to be able to listen to them while they sit next to you & insult you in thai is no longer welcome in the country.

They much prefer stupid foreigners who throw houses, cars & money at them without question then leave quietly when they're told to leave, unless of course they're very poor thais & are happy to feed off your western pension until you die, at which point, if you were stupid enough to marry one of them they have further claims on your estate. There are thai solicitors who specialise in recovery of international estates. I am generalising of course but anybody who believes that thailand's wealth isn't what it is today because of this nationwide scam is a fool.

Every foreigner here knows this tbh & if they refer to you as 'Farang jai dee' or 'Foreigner good heart" than you know for sure that you're one of the stupid ones.

Sweeping generalisations like this are rather ignorant.

[Neeranam]

So we have Britain summoning a charge d'affaires, Burma calling for a fair trial without scapegoats, NGO's giving legal representation due to the belief the accused are innocent, tens of thousands signing petitions. The majority of the Thai general public don't believe the RTP, it has been a complete cockup by the police from day one.

Yet we have a handful of bizarre posts from nieve members that just want to believe everything that's handed to them from the all so honest Thai police force.

Thailand could make this all go away by inviting either UK or Myanmar to scrutinise the so called evidence.

Simple this one. Thailand dislike Myanmar due to wars in the past and treat the people like crap. They won't let them get involved just because they are Burmese and don't deserve justice. They are tolerated as many of the corrupt in this country use them as cheap labour and maids.

The British on the other hand are welcome because of their money. Thailand still call these farang "mum", a pronoun used for animals and because of the Thai face thing can never let these subordinates get the better of them.

[Neeranam]

Exactly. Why would the police brutality & threats stop now when the game has raised it's stakes.

There's a widespread saying amongst thais... 'Foreigner know too much' & they refer to long term ex-pats as 'turtles' or 'tao' sadly enough. Exactly what their perception of the nature of a turtle is escapes me & doesn't really interest me.

Roughly deciphered this means that anybody with a reasonable level of intelligence who has spent enough time in thailand & perhaps learned enough thai to be able to listen to them while they sit next to you & insult you in thai is no longer welcome in the country.

They much prefer stupid foreigners who throw houses, cars & money at them without question then leave quietly when they're told to leave, unless of course they're very poor thais & are happy to feed off your western pension until you die, at which point, if you were stupid enough to marry one of them they have further claims on your estate. There are thai solicitors who specialise in recovery of international estates. I am generalising of course but anybody who believes that thailand's wealth isn't what it is today because of this nationwide scam is a fool.

Every foreigner here knows this tbh & if they refer to you as 'Farang jai dee' or 'Foreigner good heart" than you know for sure that you're one of the stupid ones.

Sweeping generalisations like this are rather ignorant.

Rather wise post I thought apart from the bit about stupid enough to marry one.

Also,' jai' does not mean heart as many people mistake. It means 'mind' - kao jai - enter mind(understand) , dtang jai - set one's mind to something, bplian jai - change one's mind jai ron - hot headed, jai yen - cool headed etc.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Neeranam

[minikev]

Have they found anyone who resembles the cctv footage of the running man cos I don't see any likeness to any of the accused or their friend.

When they said they were looking for 2 sons of the headman and then one son had an alibi why did they stop looking for the other son? Does he exist and if so where was he and where is he?

[brewsterbudgen]

Exactly. Why would the police brutality & threats stop now when the game has raised it's stakes.

There's a widespread saying amongst thais... 'Foreigner know too much' & they refer to long term ex-pats as 'turtles' or 'tao' sadly enough. Exactly what their perception of the nature of a turtle is escapes me & doesn't really interest me.

Roughly deciphered this means that anybody with a reasonable level of intelligence who has spent enough time in thailand & perhaps learned enough thai to be able to listen to them while they sit next to you & insult you in thai is no longer welcome in the country.

They much prefer stupid foreigners who throw houses, cars & money at them without question then leave quietly when they're told to leave, unless of course they're very poor thais & are happy to feed off your western pension until you die, at which point, if you were stupid enough to marry one of them they have further claims on your estate. There are thai solicitors who specialise in recovery of international estates. I am generalising of course but anybody who believes that thailand's wealth isn't what it is today because of this nationwide scam is a fool.

Every foreigner here knows this tbh & if they refer to you as 'Farang jai dee' or 'Foreigner good heart" than you know for sure that you're one of the stupid ones.

Sweeping generalisations like this are rather ignorant.

Rather wise post I thought apart from the bit about stupid enough to marry one.

Also, jai does ot mean heart a many people mistake. It means 'mind'

I would never consider generalisations about countries, nationalities or races to be "wise".

[bongoz]

Tully... If everyone knows there would be actual evidence. What seems accurate is that everyone wants it to be someone "important"

Yes and no. There is a mountain of evidence... and its concealment implies it involves someone important. This view is shared albeit circumstantially in some cases, and less circumstantial in others. So your opinion and your avatar are at odds...

What passes for evidence where you come from? Actual evidence or Internet speculation?

jdinasia I think you need a bit of a lesson in legal terminology, especially with regard to evidence...

Circumstantial: pointing indirectly towards someone's guilt but not conclusively proving it.

Physical: tangible articles such as hairs, fibers, latent fingerprints and biological material.

Testimonial: a statement or spoken word from victims or witnesses.

So your statement referring to "actual" evidence is bullshit. A case is made up of a mix of the different types of evidence. The strength of that case is then decided is a courtroom.

As has been stated and established a million times before the integrity of the evidence collected in this case has been incompetent at best.

[mojorison]

Tully... If everyone knows there would be actual evidence. What seems accurate is that everyone wants it to be someone "important"

There is an absolute ton of evidence against this young man yet he hasn`t even been questioned.

I want a free trial and investigation. Not overly bothered about how "important" they are.

Internet speculation (being very kind with that) isn't evidence.

Hasn't been questioned..... Hmmmm

Here is a list of evidence which jdinasia say's isn't evidence. If you'd been paying attention.....

Of course, if you want to sing officialdom's tune, then the whole thing dovetails nicely that the two 21 year olds went sexually apeshit and then ballistic with killing two farang with a hoe (which even the cops admit doesn't have any of David's blood on it). Then, they hung around the island afterwards.

>>> it could be proven that the people who should be prime suspects were on the island at the time. The two still shots taken from security footage has been shown to be very badly crafted to look like alibis. I was going to make a list of the many items which could very possibly be used as evidence against the headman's people, but it's too much typing for now. Suffice to say, Thai officialdom doesn't want to look at or consider any evidence which implicates the headman's people. Whomever wants to stroll along hand-in-hand with the frame-up can do so, but it's looking more ridiculous (and mean-spirited) each day. UK officials could do more, but they're cowed by commitments to diplomatic posturing. It's in their job description: keeping the diplomatic boat from wavering trumps any silly notions about justice - particularly for a couple little illegal immigrants with no status, no money, no voice, no important friends.

It's commonly known on the islands that illegals are problematic to employ, because of the fact that they can and do simply vanish after any sort of crime (that they have committed) transpires. Usually theft. They can be over the border rough shod in a couple of hours maximum after reaching the mainland. So for these 2 to hang around until the posse comes is "unbelievable".

Totally believable.

"couple of hours maximum "... Impressive when you are talking about getting to the mainland... Via public boat. Not knowing who is looking for you...

In the days/week after the event, every man and his dog was coming and going to Koh Tao. I know this for a fact.

[bongoz]

This is a new LOW point for the world............a gift from Thailand!!

Yes, surely this is a far lower point than slavery or the Holocaust! (sarcasm to match the hyperbole)

HUMAN TRAFFICKING: the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, or obtaining of a person for labor or services, through the use of force, fraud, or coercion for the purpose of subjection to involuntary servitude, peonage, debt bondage, or slavery.

Just another bow in Thailand's string of claims to fame...

[stopthegreed]

Lets not all get carried away.

I am sure the outside authorities, British and Burmese will oversee this prosecution, and ensure fair play.

Without all the facts its all hearsay. So lets wait and see the outcome before we judge.

These guys may well be innocent, but at the same time they may also be guilty.

I sincerely hope that the correct decision prevails, regardless of which way it may go.

If they have been set up, then the people responsible for I,t should also face a trial.

[Eliot Rosewater]

Exactly. Why would the police brutality & threats stop now when the game has raised it's stakes.

There's a widespread saying amongst thais... 'Foreigner know too much' & they refer to long term ex-pats as 'turtles' or 'tao' sadly enough. Exactly what their perception of the nature of a turtle is escapes me & doesn't really interest me.

Roughly deciphered this means that anybody with a reasonable level of intelligence who has spent enough time in thailand & perhaps learned enough thai to be able to listen to them while they sit next to you & insult you in thai is no longer welcome in the country.

They much prefer stupid foreigners who throw houses, cars & money at them without question then leave quietly when they're told to leave, unless of course they're very poor thais & are happy to feed off your western pension until you die, at which point, if you were stupid enough to marry one of them they have further claims on your estate. There are thai solicitors who specialise in recovery of international estates. I am generalising of course but anybody who believes that thailand's wealth isn't what it is today because of this nationwide scam is a fool.

Every foreigner here knows this tbh & if they refer to you as 'Farang jai dee' or 'Foreigner good heart" than you know for sure that you're one of the stupid ones.

Sweeping generalisations like this are rather ignorant.

Rather wise post I thought apart from the bit about stupid enough to marry one.

Also,' jai' does not mean heart as many people mistake. It means 'mind' - kao jai - enter mind(understand) , dtang jai - set one's mind to something, bplian jai - change one's mind jai ron - hot headed, jai yen - cool headed etc.

So if I said in English; "I had a change of heart" we would use a different word than "plian jai" as the Thai would mean change of mind?

[atyclb]

Sure the mother has followed the case closely from her hut in the jungle??

"Journalism" at its worst!! "He is such a good boy!!"

Likely the same information we see about the case is available in burma in print and at internet cafe's. this is very much akin to how some thai girls access the internet away from their "village huts" perhaps how your ex, current gf, wife or wife to be accessed the internet prior to finding a gem like you.

in addition ngo's may very well be assisting.

talk about condescending inhumane attitude.

journalists are simply quoting the parents. they are journalists not novelists.

some of us criticize others for not thinking outside the box while some of us cannot think even inside the box.

[utalkin2me]

Of course he is a scapegoat.

Good for her. I hope everybody who has a dog in this fight will speak out and get involved.

[atyclb]

Exactly. Why would the police brutality & threats stop now when the game has raised it's stakes.

There's a widespread saying amongst thais... 'Foreigner know too much' & they refer to long term ex-pats as 'turtles' or 'tao' sadly enough. Exactly what their perception of the nature of a turtle is escapes me & doesn't really interest me.

Roughly deciphered this means that anybody with a reasonable level of intelligence who has spent enough time in thailand & perhaps learned enough thai to be able to listen to them while they sit next to you & insult you in thai is no longer welcome in the country.

They much prefer stupid foreigners who throw houses, cars & money at them without question then leave quietly when they're told to leave, unless of course they're very poor thais & are happy to feed off your western pension until you die, at which point, if you were stupid enough to marry one of them they have further claims on your estate. There are thai solicitors who specialise in recovery of international estates. I am generalising of course but anybody who believes that thailand's wealth isn't what it is today because of this nationwide scam is a fool.

Every foreigner here knows this tbh & if they refer to you as 'Farang jai dee' or 'Foreigner good heart" than you know for sure that you're one of the stupid ones.

Sweeping generalisations like this are rather ignorant.

Rather wise post I thought apart from the bit about stupid enough to marry one.

Also,' jai' does not mean heart as many people mistake. It means 'mind' - kao jai - enter mind(understand) , dtang jai - set one's mind to something, bplian jai - change one's mind jai ron - hot headed, jai yen - cool headed etc.

Agreed, it should be rephrased to read "clever enough to marry one"

[GlobalCtzn]

A local taxi driver came forward and claimed he had been beaten and then offered a large bribe by the police to provide false testimony. After that public proclamation I have not seen any mention of that in this unfolding story. Where is the follow up to that blatant action by the police?

[Neeranam]

Exactly. Why would the police brutality & threats stop now when the game has raised it's stakes.

There's a widespread saying amongst thais... 'Foreigner know too much' & they refer to long term ex-pats as 'turtles' or 'tao' sadly enough. Exactly what their perception of the nature of a turtle is escapes me & doesn't really interest me.

Roughly deciphered this means that anybody with a reasonable level of intelligence who has spent enough time in thailand & perhaps learned enough thai to be able to listen to them while they sit next to you & insult you in thai is no longer welcome in the country.

They much prefer stupid foreigners who throw houses, cars & money at them without question then leave quietly when they're told to leave, unless of course they're very poor thais & are happy to feed off your western pension until you die, at which point, if you were stupid enough to marry one of them they have further claims on your estate. There are thai solicitors who specialise in recovery of international estates. I am generalising of course but anybody who believes that thailand's wealth isn't what it is today because of this nationwide scam is a fool.

Every foreigner here knows this tbh & if they refer to you as 'Farang jai dee' or 'Foreigner good heart" than you know for sure that you're one of the stupid ones.

Sweeping generalisations like this are rather ignorant.

Rather wise post I thought apart from the bit about stupid enough to marry one.

Also,' jai' does not mean heart as many people mistake. It means 'mind' - kao jai - enter mind(understand) , dtang jai - set one's mind to something, bplian jai - change one's mind jai ron - hot headed, jai yen - cool headed etc.

So if I said in English; "I had a change of heart" we would use a different word than "plian jai" as the Thai would mean change of mind?

I'm not sure if there is a difference in meaning in English between 'change of mind' and 'change of heart' let alone Thai.

"Jai" really is related to both heart and mind. Mind implies logic and thought process, whereas heart implies feelings and emotions.

Some jai phrases I'd catogarize as heart and some mind and some neither, like "noi jai" to be offended or 'haai jai' - to breathe

[balo]

Isn't this the guy who was "allegedly" not on the island that night?

looks like a dead ringer to me

Why is this a dead ringer ?

Explain to me, do you understand how photoshop works?

THe cctv footage is just too unclear to reveal the face, I could photoshop any asian boy with that haircut into the lower pic, and you would find a dead ringer.

[alfalfa19]

A local taxi driver came forward and claimed he had been beaten and then offered a large bribe by the police to provide false testimony. After that public proclamation I have not seen any mention of that in this unfolding story. Where is the follow up to that blatant action by the police?

Stifled, of course. I can't help wondering if he is still alive.

[natway09]

The quiet time between the taking of DNA from both victims & accused worries me.

Did they rearrange the DNA results to fit the circumstances in this time & that is why now it is "perfect"

[Johnsen]

Its his opinion. Dead ringer, same same.

Is he not entitled to an opinion. If u want to look at bad Photoshop work check out the blatant cover up of the Nom sod at the university dorm.

[utalkin2me]

The nice part is if an international entity every gets its hands on the case, the Thais are not even smart enough to know how to cover it all up.

[heyexile]

Even if they are scapegoats, it would be interesting to know their background and earlier life in Myanmar. Are they just sweet boys or do they have a criminal past ? Just a thought.

Would expect Myanmar and UK Govts, Andy Hall, Amnesty Int, Time etc probably checked that before getting so deeply involved.

[heyexile]

A local taxi driver came forward and claimed he had been beaten and then offered a large bribe by the police to provide false testimony. After that public proclamation I have not seen any mention of that in this unfolding story. Where is the follow up to that blatant action by the police?

Fixed.

[stephen terry]

A local taxi driver came forward and claimed he had been beaten and then offered a large bribe by the police to provide false testimony. After that public proclamation I have not seen any mention of that in this unfolding story. Where is the follow up to that blatant action by the police?

Stifled, of course. I can't help wondering if he is still alive.

A police spokesmen said it never happened. End.

[Sawan Chan 7]

Exactly. Why would the police brutality & threats stop now when the game has raised it's stakes.

There's a widespread saying amongst thais... 'Foreigner know too much' & they refer to long term ex-pats as 'turtles' or 'tao' sadly enough. Exactly what their perception of the nature of a turtle is escapes me & doesn't really interest me.

Roughly deciphered this means that anybody with a reasonable level of intelligence who has spent enough time in thailand & perhaps learned enough thai to be able to listen to them while they sit next to you & insult you in thai is no longer welcome in the country.

They much prefer stupid foreigners who throw houses, cars & money at them without question then leave quietly when they're told to leave, unless of course they're very poor thais & are happy to feed off your western pension until you die, at which point, if you were stupid enough to marry one of them they have further claims on your estate. There are thai solicitors who specialise in recovery of international estates. I am generalising of course but anybody who believes that thailand's wealth isn't what it is today because of this nationwide scam is a fool.

Every foreigner here knows this tbh & if they refer to you as 'Farang jai dee' or 'Foreigner good heart" than you know for sure that you're one of the stupid ones.

เฒ่า doesnt mean turtle. Edited October 17, 2014 by Sawan Chan 7

[stephen terry]

One thing about the confession still puzzles me. If these Burmese were guilty and willing to admit to it (according to their lawyer) why didn't they just sign the confession before they were allegedly beaten, tortured and threatened with electrocution?

And if at least one of them hasn't recanted, why is his mother telling him to tell the truth that he didn't commit the crimes?

Was a deal done? Considering the RTP has now a complete case, the best the Burmese could hope for is a commuted sentence to life imprisonment. If he recants it's the death penalty, as stated by the RTP.

[Suriya4]

The mother was not at the scene of the crime when it happens, so she is not qualified to address the subject of the Burmese victims.

[Tuskfish]

Personally I don't think TVF should be opening up this discussion anymore

[Lozza]

Even if they are scapegoats, it would be interesting to know their background and earlier life in Myanmar. Are they just sweet boys or do they have a criminal past ? Just a thought.

Would expect Myanmar and UK Govts, Andy Hall, Amnesty Int, Time etc probably checked that before getting so deeply involved.

They have no past criminal records. The damage done to Hannah doesn't fit their profile. Then again, many brutal murderers are committed by the least expected.

[jdinasia]

This is a new LOW point for the world............a gift from Thailand!!

Yes, surely this is a far lower point than slavery or the Holocaust! (sarcasm to match the hyperbole)

HUMAN TRAFFICKING: the recruitment, harboring, transportation, provision, or obtaining of a person for labor or services, through the use of force, fraud, or coercion for the purpose of subjection to involuntary servitude, peonage, debt bondage, or slavery.

Just another bow in Thailand's string of claims to fame...

Not present in this case but certainly an issue for Thailand. As well as for many other countries.

[Krataiboy]

Yet another headline and story calculated to further muddy the waters. Does anyone seriously expect a mother to say: "Yes, I'm not at all surprised my son is a rapist and murderer?" Of course not. But all rapists and murders have mothers and fathers. What exactly is the point of such banal journalism, other than to play on the public emotions?

It is a tasteless, irresponsible and hurtful exercise - not least for the families of the victims - to have such a feeding frenzy of speculation about the guilt or otherwise of the two accused men. No-one has access to all the evidence which will be laid before the court, so why play guessing games?

In the UK, once someone has been charged with a criminal offence, there are tough restrictions on what can or cannot be published before the case is brought to trial. If such measures were adopted here the chances of a fair hearing and result would be considerably enhanced.

One can only be grateful that a professional judge, trained to be objective, will determine the outcome of this case and not some jury with their minds already made up by a mass media more interested in stirring up controversy to sell newspapers than presenting facts..