Ricardo Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 The OP is simply stating what many others have already written about...the US has run up a debt that can never be repaid...printing money like there is no tomorrow which will someday end badly... Americans and the world are being sold a multitude of lies concerning the US economy...unemployment...and the so-called recovery... Any one of many events now going on in the world could be the tipping point to send the US economy...stock market...and US dollar into a tail spin... This is not bashing...consider it a warning...prepare yourself...a day of reckoning is coming... Dream on. In the lastest side by side debt to GDP figures the World Bank had: The US was 93.8% The UK was 103.2% Japan was 196.5% LINK The US has the world's largest economy by far. LINK The US has the most usable land of any country, the most natural resources, is fast gaining on the world's largest oil producers and will pass them, and is leaps and bounds ahead of other countries in technology. Don't hold your breath. I think you will find the Brits up with the most advanced technology, along with Germany, they usually give it to the Yanks after. You couldn't make that post without a US designed computer, a US designed operating system, or the US invented internet. "the US invented internet" ... Tim Berners-Lee is an American ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee And were Turing or Babbage also American ? While happy to credit the USA with the commercial development of these wonderful machines, I wouldn't ignore the contribution from other countries, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 It is a logical impossibility for Social Security to go bankrupt. We can voluntarily choose to suspend or eliminate the program, but it could never fail because it “ran out of money.” This belief is the result of a common error: conceptualizing Social Security from the micro (individual) rather than the macro (economy-wide) perspective. It’s not a pension fund into which you put your money when you are young and from which you draw when you are old. I.t’s an immediate transfer from workers today to retirees todayThat’s what it has always been and that’s what it has to be–there is no other possible way for it to work. Incidentally, there appears to be every indication that productivity increases should be sufficient for the Baby Boomers to retire AND allow the rest of us enjoy even higher standards of living (assuming the compression of wages ends). That’s good news. In fact, it’s the only news that’s important. In closing, I’m not telling you whether you should be for or against Social Security, but the argument that it is going bankrupt is a non-starter. It is much ado about nothing. http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2013/01/07/social-security-rerun/ Thailiketoo ... your ignorance is astounding; please explain how social security cannot go bankrupt; you do understand that a proportion of monies collected by the 'State' goes to many funds, not just Social Security ...that the USA IS Bankrupt (unless you think 17 trillion dollars in debt and printing money by the billions each day is legal?) ... many counties, cities and even States in the USA are Bankrupt ... You waffle on about macro and micro economics as if there is no association; let me explain it simply, if the man of a family of 4 is unemployed, the State cannot collect revenue from him; and even thought the USA puts a ceiling on the social security payments, he will draw social security. If that proportion of the revenue collected for allocation to social security is less than is paid out, that is were 'bankruptcy' occurs. And you contradicted yourself by stating " It’s not a pension fund into which you put your money when you are young and from which you draw when you are old. I.t’s an immediate transfer from workers today to retirees" America is bankrupt, it cannot pay its creditors; therefore its Social Security system is bankrupt. All of the answers you require are in the Forbes article that I linked. http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2013/01/07/social-security-rerun/ A list of the countries that were the largest American debt holders two months ago and have confidence that America is not bankrupt. China, Mainland Japan Belgium Carib Bkg Ctrs 4/ Oil Exporters 3 Brazil Taiwan United Kingdom Hong Kong Luxembourg Russia Ireland Singapore https://www.treasury.gov/ticdata/Publish/mfh.txt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mania Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Who are the major holders of US debt outside of the country? Who are these nutcases as of Aug 2014? China, Mainland Japan Belgium Carib Bkg Ctrs 4/ Oil Exporters 3 Brazil Taiwan United Kingdom Hong Kong Luxembourg Russia Ireland Singapore https://www.treasury.gov/ticdata/Publish/mfh.txt It is true that outsiders hold more of the US debt than US citizens themselves But that reason is not automatically assumed to be faith in the USD I believe in China's case for example a lot of their buying T-Bills (US Debt) is a way of limiting gains of their own currency. It is funny how when it comes to Fiat there is a sort of race to the bottom. None really want their value too high. If kept in check it helps To Encourage Exports To Discourage Imports But for me the take away is the whole thing is kind of a mess these days Not just in the USA Edited October 23, 2014 by mania Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) OP, "America is stretched to breaking point: watch the markets" The markets, "U.S. stocks rallied for a third day as optimism over corporate earnings spurred a rebound from last week’s selloff......The Standard & Poor’s 500 Index rose 0.9 percent to 1,904.02 at 4 p.m. New York time. The index has fallen for the past four weeks and is down 5.3 percent since Sept. 18. The Dow Jones Industrial Average (INDU) added 19.26 points, or 0.1 percent, to 16,399.67. The Nasdaq Composite Index added 1.4 percent." http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-20/u-s-stock-index-futures-rise-after-s-p-500-s-weekly-drop.html Edited October 23, 2014 by thailiketoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruncher Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 OP, "America is stretched to breaking point: watch the markets" The markets, "U.S. stocks rallied for a third day as optimism over corporate earnings spurred a rebound from last week’s selloff......The Standard & Poor’s 500 Index rose 0.9 percent to 1,904.02 at 4 p.m. New York time. The index has fallen for the past four weeks and is down 5.3 percent since Sept. 18. The Dow Jones Industrial Average (INDU) added 19.26 points, or 0.1 percent, to 16,399.67. The Nasdaq Composite Index added 1.4 percent." http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-10-20/u-s-stock-index-futures-rise-after-s-p-500-s-weekly-drop.html You must have a different market as the rest of the world https://www.google.com/finance?q=INDEXDJX%3A.DJI%2CINDEXSP%3A.INX%2CINDEXNASDAQ%3A.IXIC&ei=5X5IVOiEAcaWlAWr1YHgCQ&ed=us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Go the Aussie dollar! China just imposed new import duties on coal, which is, wait for it, the primary export from Australia to China... Sorry, but time to short the Aussie dollar... http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/09/china-coal-idUSL3N0S41QP20141009 Australia has negotiated the removal of those imposts once the free trade agreement between the two countries has been finalised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 It is a logical impossibility for Social Security to go bankrupt. We can voluntarily choose to suspend or eliminate the program, but it could never fail because it “ran out of money.” This belief is the result of a common error: conceptualizing Social Security from the micro (individual) rather than the macro (economy-wide) perspective. It’s not a pension fund into which you put your money when you are young and from which you draw when you are old. I.t’s an immediate transfer from workers today to retirees todayThat’s what it has always been and that’s what it has to be–there is no other possible way for it to work. Incidentally, there appears to be every indication that productivity increases should be sufficient for the Baby Boomers to retire AND allow the rest of us enjoy even higher standards of living (assuming the compression of wages ends). That’s good news. In fact, it’s the only news that’s important. In closing, I’m not telling you whether you should be for or against Social Security, but the argument that it is going bankrupt is a non-starter. It is much ado about nothing. http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2013/01/07/social-security-rerun/ Thailiketoo ... your ignorance is astounding; please explain how social security cannot go bankrupt; you do understand that a proportion of monies collected by the 'State' goes to many funds, not just Social Security ...that the USA IS Bankrupt (unless you think 17 trillion dollars in debt and printing money by the billions each day is legal?) ... many counties, cities and even States in the USA are Bankrupt ... You waffle on about macro and micro economics as if there is no association; let me explain it simply, if the man of a family of 4 is unemployed, the State cannot collect revenue from him; and even thought the USA puts a ceiling on the social security payments, he will draw social security. If that proportion of the revenue collected for allocation to social security is less than is paid out, that is were 'bankruptcy' occurs. And you contradicted yourself by stating " It’s not a pension fund into which you put your money when you are young and from which you draw when you are old. I.t’s an immediate transfer from workers today to retirees" America is bankrupt, it cannot pay its creditors; therefore its Social Security system is bankrupt. Dear Mr. Boon I re read your post paying particular attention to you saying about me, " your ignorance is astounding." Then you write, " if the man of a family of 4 is unemployed, the State cannot collect revenue from him; and even thought the USA puts a ceiling on the social security payments, he will draw social security." What you are writing about is welfare or unemployment insurance or unemployment benifits and not social security. You can't get social security if you are employed or of employable age, it's for old retired people (for the most part). So I take it you don't know the difference between welfare, unemployment benefits, unemployment insurance and social security. Do you think calling me astoundingly ignorant was justified seeing you have no idea what you are talking about? I would never call another poster astoundingly ignorant even though they didn't have a clue what they were writing about. Uninformed, perhaps or silly but never astoundingly ignorant. Since you obviously haven't the slightest idea what you are writing about and only a seemingly never ending dislike of things American I thought I would give you an opportunity to recant and apologize for calling me a very derogatory term, "your ignorance is astounding." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruncher Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 It is a logical impossibility for Social Security to go bankrupt. We can voluntarily choose to suspend or eliminate the program, but it could never fail because it “ran out of money.” This belief is the result of a common error: conceptualizing Social Security from the micro (individual) rather than the macro (economy-wide) perspective. It’s not a pension fund into which you put your money when you are young and from which you draw when you are old. I.t’s an immediate transfer from workers today to retirees todayThat’s what it has always been and that’s what it has to be–there is no other possible way for it to work. Incidentally, there appears to be every indication that productivity increases should be sufficient for the Baby Boomers to retire AND allow the rest of us enjoy even higher standards of living (assuming the compression of wages ends). That’s good news. In fact, it’s the only news that’s important. In closing, I’m not telling you whether you should be for or against Social Security, but the argument that it is going bankrupt is a non-starter. It is much ado about nothing. http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2013/01/07/social-security-rerun/ Thailiketoo ... your ignorance is astounding; please explain how social security cannot go bankrupt; you do understand that a proportion of monies collected by the 'State' goes to many funds, not just Social Security ...that the USA IS Bankrupt (unless you think 17 trillion dollars in debt and printing money by the billions each day is legal?) ... many counties, cities and even States in the USA are Bankrupt ... You waffle on about macro and micro economics as if there is no association; let me explain it simply, if the man of a family of 4 is unemployed, the State cannot collect revenue from him; and even thought the USA puts a ceiling on the social security payments, he will draw social security. If that proportion of the revenue collected for allocation to social security is less than is paid out, that is were 'bankruptcy' occurs. And you contradicted yourself by stating " It’s not a pension fund into which you put your money when you are young and from which you draw when you are old. I.t’s an immediate transfer from workers today to retirees" America is bankrupt, it cannot pay its creditors; therefore its Social Security system is bankrupt. Dear Mr. Boon I re read your post paying particular attention to you saying about me, " your ignorance is astounding." Then you write, " if the man of a family of 4 is unemployed, the State cannot collect revenue from him; and even thought the USA puts a ceiling on the social security payments, he will draw social security." What you are writing about is welfare or unemployment insurance or unemployment benifits and not social security. You can't get social security if you are employed or of employable age, it's for old retired people (for the most part). So I take it you don't know the difference between welfare, unemployment benefits, unemployment insurance and social security. Do you think calling me astoundingly ignorant was justified seeing you have no idea what you are talking about? I would never call another poster astoundingly ignorant even though they didn't have a clue what they were writing about. Uninformed, perhaps or silly but never astoundingly ignorant. Since you obviously haven't the slightest idea what you are writing about and only a seemingly never ending dislike of things American I thought I would give you an opportunity to recant and apologize for calling me a very derogatory term, "your ignorance is astounding." So I take it you don't know the difference between welfare, unemployment benefits, unemployment insurance and social security. And of course welfare , unemployment benefits or unemployment insurance doesn't have to get funded from those very same tax payments. They just pull them out of a bottomless source. Keep digging your hole, you soon gone be in China, and that are actually the ones who keep your head above water currently but unfortunately it wont last much longer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) Thailiketoo ... your ignorance is astounding; please explain how social security cannot go bankrupt; you do understand that a proportion of monies collected by the 'State' goes to many funds, not just Social Security ...that the USA IS Bankrupt (unless you think 17 trillion dollars in debt and printing money by the billions each day is legal?) ... many counties, cities and even States in the USA are Bankrupt ... You waffle on about macro and micro economics as if there is no association; let me explain it simply, if the man of a family of 4 is unemployed, the State cannot collect revenue from him; and even thought the USA puts a ceiling on the social security payments, he will draw social security. If that proportion of the revenue collected for allocation to social security is less than is paid out, that is were 'bankruptcy' occurs. And you contradicted yourself by stating " It’s not a pension fund into which you put your money when you are young and from which you draw when you are old. I.t’s an immediate transfer from workers today to retirees" America is bankrupt, it cannot pay its creditors; therefore its Social Security system is bankrupt. Dear Mr. Boon I re read your post paying particular attention to you saying about me, " your ignorance is astounding." Then you write, " if the man of a family of 4 is unemployed, the State cannot collect revenue from him; and even thought the USA puts a ceiling on the social security payments, he will draw social security." What you are writing about is welfare or unemployment insurance or unemployment benifits and not social security. You can't get social security if you are employed or of employable age, it's for old retired people (for the most part). So I take it you don't know the difference between welfare, unemployment benefits, unemployment insurance and social security. Do you think calling me astoundingly ignorant was justified seeing you have no idea what you are talking about? I would never call another poster astoundingly ignorant even though they didn't have a clue what they were writing about. Uninformed, perhaps or silly but never astoundingly ignorant. Since you obviously haven't the slightest idea what you are writing about and only a seemingly never ending dislike of things American I thought I would give you an opportunity to recant and apologize for calling me a very derogatory term, "your ignorance is astounding." So I take it you don't know the difference between welfare, unemployment benefits, unemployment insurance and social security. And of course welfare , unemployment benefits or unemployment insurance doesn't have to get funded from those very same tax payments. They just pull them out of a bottomless source. Keep digging your hole, you soon gone be in China, and that are actually the ones who keep your head above water currently but unfortunately it wont last much longer. Social Security is a federal program. Unemployment benefits are State programs. Different sources different buckets. The laws and regulations governing the programs are different. They are not connected in any way. The things a State can do are not the same as the things that the federal government can do. Payroll deductions for Social Security and Unemployment Insurance are two different things funded by the workers not the government. But those are both large discussions and not found by looking at the markets which is what this thread is about. Stick to a topic you have at least a little knowledge about. America has States that have larger economies than many countries. Edited October 23, 2014 by thailiketoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetotravel Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 " Yeah, predictions and "facts" from doomsday nutters who want to sell you gold." It's somewhat amusing that you talk about doomsday nutters when equally you would have to be a nutcase to believe USA can go on indefinitely relying on “ growth “ which is based purely on printing money keep the bubble inflated and without any sign that all that there is any kind of strategy to repay a debt which has almost now reached 18 trillion. http://www.usdebtclock.org/ Who are the major holders of US debt outside of the country? Who are these nutcases as of Aug 2014? China, Mainland Japan Belgium Carib Bkg Ctrs 4/ Oil Exporters 3 Brazil Taiwan United Kingdom Hong Kong Luxembourg Russia Ireland Singapore https://www.treasury.gov/ticdata/Publish/mfh.txt China has about 8% of the US debt. Mainly due to trades. Chinese companies take short term treasury notes and bills to settle trade payments. The US governments owns the largest share of the debt. Foreign governments only own about 35% of the US total debt, with Japan and China owning about 15%. No scare mongering, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David48 Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 America has States that have larger economies than many countries. I don't wish to buy into your beef ... but tl2 ... that's a fun map ... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) America has States that have larger economies than many countries. I don't wish to buy into your beef ... but tl2 ... that's a fun map ... NYC, London and Paris together brought in 46 billion in tourist dollars. Florida and the mouse brought in 71 billion in tourist dollars. Selling Thailand to Disney would be a win win situation for everyone. In terms of population and economics Governors of many States have jobs more important than heads of many countries. It is not far fetched to think of Thailand as one big resort managed by Disney or another American corporation. Edited October 23, 2014 by thailiketoo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asiantravel Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) It is a logical impossibility for Social Security to go bankrupt. We can voluntarily choose to suspend or eliminate the program, but it could never fail because it “ran out of money.” This belief is the result of a common error: conceptualizing Social Security from the micro (individual) rather than the macro (economy-wide) perspective. It’s not a pension fund into which you put your money when you are young and from which you draw when you are old. I.t’s an immediate transfer from workers today to retirees todayThat’s what it has always been and that’s what it has to be–there is no other possible way for it to work. Incidentally, there appears to be every indication that productivity increases should be sufficient for the Baby Boomers to retire AND allow the rest of us enjoy even higher standards of living (assuming the compression of wages ends). That’s good news. In fact, it’s the only news that’s important. In closing, I’m not telling you whether you should be for or against Social Security, but the argument that it is going bankrupt is a non-starter. It is much ado about nothing. http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2013/01/07/social-security-rerun/ Thailiketoo ... your ignorance is astounding; please explain how social security cannot go bankrupt; you do understand that a proportion of monies collected by the 'State' goes to many funds, not just Social Security ...that the USA IS Bankrupt (unless you think 17 trillion dollars in debt and printing money by the billions each day is legal?) ... many counties, cities and even States in the USA are Bankrupt ... You waffle on about macro and micro economics as if there is no association; let me explain it simply, if the man of a family of 4 is unemployed, the State cannot collect revenue from him; and even thought the USA puts a ceiling on the social security payments, he will draw social security. If that proportion of the revenue collected for allocation to social security is less than is paid out, that is were 'bankruptcy' occurs. And you contradicted yourself by stating " It’s not a pension fund into which you put your money when you are young and from which you draw when you are old. I.t’s an immediate transfer from workers today to retirees" America is bankrupt, it cannot pay its creditors; therefore its Social Security system is bankrupt. Not only is the government drowning in debt but the story of household debt is equally as disastrous. More than 160 million Americans have credit cards.with the average credit card holder having at least three cards.On average, each household with a credit card carries more than $15,000 in credit card debt.” Not only do they have large amounts of credit card debt, they also have student loans, mortgages, cars, and medical debts. Household debt is growing faster than their income, and many middle class workers have trouble staying afloat. 28% of Americans have no emergency savings whatsoever. 76% of Americans are living pay check to pay check and 50% have less than three months personal expenses in a savings account. non-dischargeable student loans hit a new all time high of $1.08 trillion and the amount of heavily delinquent student loans has just hit a fresh record high of $124.3 billion http://wallstcheatsheet.com/personal-finance/7-things-the-middle-class-cant-afford-anymore.html/4/ http://www.newyorkfed.org/householdcredit/2013-Q4/HHDC_2013Q4.pdf Edited October 23, 2014 by Asiantravel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thailiketoo Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 It is a logical impossibility for Social Security to go bankrupt. We can voluntarily choose to suspend or eliminate the program, but it could never fail because it “ran out of money.” This belief is the result of a common error: conceptualizing Social Security from the micro (individual) rather than the macro (economy-wide) perspective. It’s not a pension fund into which you put your money when you are young and from which you draw when you are old. I.t’s an immediate transfer from workers today to retirees todayThat’s what it has always been and that’s what it has to be–there is no other possible way for it to work. Incidentally, there appears to be every indication that productivity increases should be sufficient for the Baby Boomers to retire AND allow the rest of us enjoy even higher standards of living (assuming the compression of wages ends). That’s good news. In fact, it’s the only news that’s important. In closing, I’m not telling you whether you should be for or against Social Security, but the argument that it is going bankrupt is a non-starter. It is much ado about nothing. http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2013/01/07/social-security-rerun/ Thailiketoo ... your ignorance is astounding; please explain how social security cannot go bankrupt; you do understand that a proportion of monies collected by the 'State' goes to many funds, not just Social Security ...that the USA IS Bankrupt (unless you think 17 trillion dollars in debt and printing money by the billions each day is legal?) ... many counties, cities and even States in the USA are Bankrupt ... You waffle on about macro and micro economics as if there is no association; let me explain it simply, if the man of a family of 4 is unemployed, the State cannot collect revenue from him; and even thought the USA puts a ceiling on the social security payments, he will draw social security. If that proportion of the revenue collected for allocation to social security is less than is paid out, that is were 'bankruptcy' occurs. And you contradicted yourself by stating " It’s not a pension fund into which you put your money when you are young and from which you draw when you are old. I.t’s an immediate transfer from workers today to retirees" America is bankrupt, it cannot pay its creditors; therefore its Social Security system is bankrupt. Not only is the government drowning in debt but the story of household debt is equally as disastrous. More than 160 million Americans have credit cards.with the average credit card holder having at least three cards.On average, each household with a credit card carries more than $15,000 in credit card debt.” Not only do they have large amounts of credit card debt, they also have student loans, mortgages, cars, and medical debts. Household debt is growing faster than their income, and many middle class workers have trouble staying afloat non-dischargeable student loans hit a new all time high of $1.08 trillion and the amount of heavily delinquent student loans has just hit a fresh record high of $124.3 billion http://wallstcheatsheet.com/personal-finance/7-things-the-middle-class-cant-afford-anymore.html/4/ http://www.newyorkfed.org/householdcredit/2013-Q4/HHDC_2013Q4.pdf External debt as a percent of GDP UK 406% Switzerland 229% Ireland 1008% USA 106% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lovetotravel Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Household debt. The US isn't doing too bad. Just read Thailand's is way up there this year. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-06-04/debt-nations The graph uses dollars, I think as a percentage of disposable income would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F430murci Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Yeah, predictions and "facts" from doomsday nutters who want to sell you gold. American corporations are doing well. Check the PE ratios of the Dow or the S&P. Check the average dividend yield for either. If the US stock market takes a nice correction, it's time to buy. There's never been a time like this when so many people had the opportunity to make so much money. The internet, both hardware and software and all of the inventions and jobs simply didn't exist just a short while ago, but they have made many rich. The college kids who designed Google made themselves and a lot of people rich. Walmart, McDonalds, Burger King, KFC, 7-11, Starbucks and others have gone global pulling a lot of money into the US. Ebay, Amazon, Facebook, Google, Yahoo, PayPal and many others just roll in the money. Companies like AT&T and others got the jump on laying out fiber optic trunklines internationally and developing authoritative DNS and DHCP servers and they own and lease the WWW internationally. If the internet shut down in the US it would immediately shut down globally. I could go on, but suffice to say that many simply don't know what's going on in the USA. Amazon hasn't made a dime profit yet in it's entire history. Ebay is losing out fast to it's new Chinese competitor Alibaba, who just recently had his US IPO. Mcdonalds just published declining earnings. Keep looking at PE figures they are the reflection of the dream Americans are living, a dream that can turn in a nightmare soon. Some of the high PE companies that the US invented, Tyco - Worldcom - Enron - CIT Group - Lehman brothers - Genral Motors. Can you remind us where they are today ? Looking how bright your future looks. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/-golden-years-look-dark-as-lower-inflation-eats-into-social-security-175449879.html Golden Years look dark as lower inflation eats into Social Security Lol, the doom and gloomers on here consistently demonstrate zero grasp of basic economic or market principles. Profit is opinion but cash is a fact. Amazon is about cash flow, not net income. Enron was the opposite. P/E ratios are an excellent indicator of a company's general health, but one also has to understand cash flow for full picture. Amazons business model is delivering very rapid revenue growth but not accumulating any surplus cash or profits, because all excess cash is being reinvested into expanding the business further. McDonalds and Coke are declining because Americans are becoming more health conscious and have more disposable income to spend on better quality and healthier alternatives. eBay 2nd quarter earnings grew 13% to 4.4 bil even with the May cyber attacks. Alibaba is a solid company, but Alibaba has slowing revenue and profits. Alibaba has quarterly revenues of about $2.5 bil. Amazon has $ 19 bil and ebay has $ 4.4 bil in quarterly revenue. All 3 are solid companies. Some people, and politicians when necessary to rally their base, have been saying since the 70s that their will be no money left for retirees. Some also say aliens are coming and Bigfoot is real. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F430murci Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) It is a logical impossibility for Social Security to go bankrupt. We can voluntarily choose to suspend or eliminate the program, but it could never fail because it ran out of money. This belief is the result of a common error: conceptualizing Social Security from the micro (individual) rather than the macro (economy-wide) perspective. Its not a pension fund into which you put your money when you are young and from which you draw when you are old. I.ts an immediate transfer from workers today to retirees todayThats what it has always been and thats what it has to bethere is no other possible way for it to work. Incidentally, there appears to be every indication that productivity increases should be sufficient for the Baby Boomers to retire AND allow the rest of us enjoy even higher standards of living (assuming the compression of wages ends). Thats good news. In fact, its the only news thats important. In closing, Im not telling you whether you should be for or against Social Security, but the argument that it is going bankrupt is a non-starter. It is much ado about nothing. http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2013/01/07/social-security-rerun/ Thailiketoo ... your ignorance is astounding; please explain how social security cannot go bankrupt; you do understand that a proportion of monies collected by the 'State' goes to many funds, not just Social Security ...that the USA IS Bankrupt (unless you think 17 trillion dollars in debt and printing money by the billions each day is legal?) ... many counties, cities and even States in the USA are Bankrupt ... You waffle on about macro and micro economics as if there is no association; let me explain it simply, if the man of a family of 4 is unemployed, the State cannot collect revenue from him; and even thought the USA puts a ceiling on the social security payments, he will draw social security. If that proportion of the revenue collected for allocation to social security is less than is paid out, that is were 'bankruptcy' occurs. And you contradicted yourself by stating " Its not a pension fund into which you put your money when you are young and from which you draw when you are old. I.ts an immediate transfer from workers today to retirees" America is bankrupt, it cannot pay its creditors; therefore its Social Security system is bankrupt. Not only is the government drowning in debt but the story of household debt is equally as disastrous. More than 160 million Americans have credit cards.with the average credit card holder having at least three cards.On average, each household with a credit card carries more than $15,000 in credit card debt. Not only do they have large amounts of credit card debt, they also have student loans, mortgages, cars, and medical debts. Household debt is growing faster than their income, and many middle class workers have trouble staying afloat. 28% of Americans have no emergency savings whatsoever. 76% of Americans are living pay check to pay check and 50% have less than three months personal expenses in a savings account. non-dischargeable student loans hit a new all time high of $1.08 trillion and the amount of heavily delinquent student loans has just hit a fresh record high of $124.3 billion http://wallstcheatsheet.com/personal-finance/7-things-the-middle-class-cant-afford-anymore.html/4/ http://www.newyorkfed.org/householdcredit/2013-Q4/HHDC_2013Q4.pdf Haha, doom and gloom US ebola forecast not panning out so back with your Net researched and Net educated doom and gloom US economic forecasts. Brilliant!!! Really gotta know is how people like you are benefited from all the silly negativity? There has to be some benefit in it for you to spend so much time doing it. Love how people not even in the US have so much first hand knowledge about how people are really doing here in the US. Edited October 23, 2014 by F430murci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F430murci Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 (edited) " Yeah, predictions and "facts" from doomsday nutters who want to sell you gold." It's somewhat amusing that you talk about doomsday nutters when equally you would have to be a nutcase to believe USA can go on indefinitely relying on growth which is based purely on printing money keep the bubble inflated and without any sign that all that there is any kind of strategy to repay a debt which has almost now reached 18 trillion. http://www.usdebtclock.org/ Who are the major holders of US debt outside of the country? Who are these nutcases as of Aug 2014?China, Mainland Japan Belgium Carib Bkg Ctrs 4/ Oil Exporters 3 Brazil Taiwan United Kingdom Hong Kong Luxembourg Russia Ireland Singapore https://www.treasury.gov/ticdata/Publish/mfh.txt China has about 8% of the US debt. Mainly due to trades. Chinese companies take short term treasury notes and bills to settle trade payments. The US governments owns the largest share of the debt. Foreign governments only own about 35% of the US total debt, with Japan and China owning about 15%. No scare mongering, please. It's always amazing how some who probably don't have squat to their name are much better informed about the investment quality of US treasuries or US stock than countries responsible for the safety of their citizens' money who invest billions into both US securities and US treasuries. US treasuries have horrible rates of return, yet countries and institutional investors purchase in large blocks due to the safety of the investment. But noooooo, those educated by crack pot run websites like zerohedge and infowars know better!!! Got it. Edited October 23, 2014 by F430murci 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F430murci Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 It is a logical impossibility for Social Security to go bankrupt. We can voluntarily choose to suspend or eliminate the program, but it could never fail because it ran out of money. This belief is the result of a common error: conceptualizing Social Security from the micro (individual) rather than the macro (economy-wide) perspective. Its not a pension fund into which you put your money when you are young and from which you draw when you are old. I.ts an immediate transfer from workers today to retirees todayThats what it has always been and thats what it has to bethere is no other possible way for it to work. Incidentally, there appears to be every indication that productivity increases should be sufficient for the Baby Boomers to retire AND allow the rest of us enjoy even higher standards of living (assuming the compression of wages ends). Thats good news. In fact, its the only news thats important. In closing, Im not telling you whether you should be for or against Social Security, but the argument that it is going bankrupt is a non-starter. It is much ado about nothing. http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2013/01/07/social-security-rerun/ Thailiketoo ... your ignorance is astounding; please explain how social security cannot go bankrupt; you do understand that a proportion of monies collected by the 'State' goes to many funds, not just Social Security ...that the USA IS Bankrupt (unless you think 17 trillion dollars in debt and printing money by the billions each day is legal?) ... many counties, cities and even States in the USA are Bankrupt ... You waffle on about macro and micro economics as if there is no association; let me explain it simply, if the man of a family of 4 is unemployed, the State cannot collect revenue from him; and even thought the USA puts a ceiling on the social security payments, he will draw social security. If that proportion of the revenue collected for allocation to social security is less than is paid out, that is were 'bankruptcy' occurs. And you contradicted yourself by stating " Its not a pension fund into which you put your money when you are young and from which you draw when you are old. I.ts an immediate transfer from workers today to retirees" America is bankrupt, it cannot pay its creditors; therefore its Social Security system is bankrupt. Not only is the government drowning in debt but the story of household debt is equally as disastrous. More than 160 million Americans have credit cards.with the average credit card holder having at least three cards.On average, each household with a credit card carries more than $15,000 in credit card debt. Not only do they have large amounts of credit card debt, they also have student loans, mortgages, cars, and medical debts. Household debt is growing faster than their income, and many middle class workers have trouble staying afloat non-dischargeable student loans hit a new all time high of $1.08 trillion and the amount of heavily delinquent student loans has just hit a fresh record high of $124.3 billion http://wallstcheatsheet.com/personal-finance/7-things-the-middle-class-cant-afford-anymore.html/4/ http://www.newyorkfed.org/householdcredit/2013-Q4/HHDC_2013Q4.pdf External debt as a percent of GDP UK 406% Switzerland 229% Ireland 1008% USA 106% http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_external_debt I do agree that the costs of a higher education and private schools have gotten out of hand. Then we have a lot of dumb <deleted> taking out student loans, using the money to finance partying, not completing their degrees and then not repaying their student loans. The other debt though . . . Mortgage debt means purchase of a home. Better than homeless or renting an apartment. I also see owning cars as a positive. I would think people in many less fortunate countries would like to own a car or their own home. Medical debt . . . well we now have Obamacare . . . RE: Credit card debt The median American household owed $3,300 of consumer debt. The average American household owed $7,768. The average indebted American household owed $17,630. These discrepancies indicate that a relatively small number of households are underwater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asiantravel Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Saxo Bank's Chief Economist Steen Jakobsen is predicting another 'shock drop' in the markets within a few weeks. With debt and low inflation continuing to create a nervous atmosphere behind most markets, Steen argues that we will hit fresh lows in mid-November. Steen takes the view that central bank policy is creating a 'fantasy land' for investors and he points out that the recent 'day dive' in markets was a closer reflection of reality. https://www.tradingfloor.com/posts/jakobsen-another-shock-drop-is-coming-and-its-coming-soon-2142996?utm_source=TradingFloor.com&utm_medium=banner&utm_campaign=TF4_FeaturedArticle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asiantravel Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 It is a logical impossibility for Social Security to go bankrupt. We can voluntarily choose to suspend or eliminate the program, but it could never fail because it ran out of money. This belief is the result of a common error: conceptualizing Social Security from the micro (individual) rather than the macro (economy-wide) perspective. Its not a pension fund into which you put your money when you are young and from which you draw when you are old. I.ts an immediate transfer from workers today to retirees todayThats what it has always been and thats what it has to bethere is no other possible way for it to work. Incidentally, there appears to be every indication that productivity increases should be sufficient for the Baby Boomers to retire AND allow the rest of us enjoy even higher standards of living (assuming the compression of wages ends). Thats good news. In fact, its the only news thats important. In closing, Im not telling you whether you should be for or against Social Security, but the argument that it is going bankrupt is a non-starter. It is much ado about nothing. http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntharvey/2013/01/07/social-security-rerun/ Thailiketoo ... your ignorance is astounding; please explain how social security cannot go bankrupt; you do understand that a proportion of monies collected by the 'State' goes to many funds, not just Social Security ...that the USA IS Bankrupt (unless you think 17 trillion dollars in debt and printing money by the billions each day is legal?) ... many counties, cities and even States in the USA are Bankrupt ... You waffle on about macro and micro economics as if there is no association; let me explain it simply, if the man of a family of 4 is unemployed, the State cannot collect revenue from him; and even thought the USA puts a ceiling on the social security payments, he will draw social security. If that proportion of the revenue collected for allocation to social security is less than is paid out, that is were 'bankruptcy' occurs. And you contradicted yourself by stating " Its not a pension fund into which you put your money when you are young and from which you draw when you are old. I.ts an immediate transfer from workers today to retirees" America is bankrupt, it cannot pay its creditors; therefore its Social Security system is bankrupt. Not only is the government drowning in debt but the story of household debt is equally as disastrous. More than 160 million Americans have credit cards.with the average credit card holder having at least three cards.On average, each household with a credit card carries more than $15,000 in credit card debt. Not only do they have large amounts of credit card debt, they also have student loans, mortgages, cars, and medical debts. Household debt is growing faster than their income, and many middle class workers have trouble staying afloat. 28% of Americans have no emergency savings whatsoever. 76% of Americans are living pay check to pay check and 50% have less than three months personal expenses in a savings account. non-dischargeable student loans hit a new all time high of $1.08 trillion and the amount of heavily delinquent student loans has just hit a fresh record high of $124.3 billion http://wallstcheatsheet.com/personal-finance/7-things-the-middle-class-cant-afford-anymore.html/4/ http://www.newyorkfed.org/householdcredit/2013-Q4/HHDC_2013Q4.pdf Haha, doom and gloom US ebola forecast not panning out so back with your Net researched and Net educated doom and gloom US economic forecasts. Brilliant!!! Really gotta know is how people like you are benefited from all the silly negativity? There has to be some benefit in it for you to spend so much time doing it. Love how people not even in the US have so much first hand knowledge about how people are really doing here in the US. " Really gotta know is how people like you are benefited from all the silly negativity? There has to be some benefit in it for you to spend so much time doing it. " No benefit as such but I am fascinated regarding the theory of cognitive dissonance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruncher Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Love how people not even in the US have so much first hand knowledge about how people are really doing here in the US. Would you believe that outside your nationalistic world there is also television, newspapers and even internet. And most of all there is a conscience of how the US lead the whole world in an economic downturn in 2007, and now even try to blame Europe for their lying and cheating. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watcharacters Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 looks like the OP has a bone to pick with the US That's not a rare event on this forum. Personally I'm currently scouting for tall buildings as I'm convinced the end is happening within the next 72 hours. Start the countdown now, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruncher Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 And the US success story goes on, they better calm down because soon there will be NO workers anymore to load the social security coffers. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/sears-close-stores-lay-off-5-500-employees-131217119--finance.html Sears to close stores, lay off about 5,500 employees: Seeking Alpha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asiantravel Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Keep up the apologist excuses. Here is some news from your national hero today, guess why he lost 2,5 Billion$ only this week. More to come, keep your head in the sand, your country is as bankrupt as can be and the only way out will be to dupe the man in the street. I hope you realise that includes you. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/warren-buffetts-bad-week-2-133144496.html Warren Buffett's bad week: $2.5B lost on two stocks IBM and Coke represent two of Berkshire Hathaway's (BRK-A) three biggest investments, but their operational missteps have already cost him $2.52 billion this week And the winning losing streak of Americas smartest investor goes on, so the markets must be doing pretty well for the average US citizen. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/buffett-copycats-risk-pounding-berkshire-052506483.html Buffett copycats risk a pounding as Berkshire portfolio suffers NEW YORK (Reuters) - It's not been a good time for Warren Buffett wannabes. Sharp drops in many of the stocks owned by Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway in recent weeks hit the sprawling conglomerate's equity portfolio hard. The loss on seven of those holdings alone totals more than $5 billion provided Berkshire's stakes have remained the same since June 30, the last date for which they were disclosed. Last year, for the first time since Buffett took control of Berkshire in 1965, the company's five-year gain in book value per share underperformed the S&P 500's five-year rise, The performance of a major DJIA component 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruncher Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Keep up the apologist excuses. Here is some news from your national hero today, guess why he lost 2,5 Billion$ only this week. More to come, keep your head in the sand, your country is as bankrupt as can be and the only way out will be to dupe the man in the street. I hope you realise that includes you. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/warren-buffetts-bad-week-2-133144496.html Warren Buffett's bad week: $2.5B lost on two stocks IBM and Coke represent two of Berkshire Hathaway's (BRK-A) three biggest investments, but their operational missteps have already cost him $2.52 billion this week And the winning losing streak of Americas smartest investor goes on, so the markets must be doing pretty well for the average US citizen. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/buffett-copycats-risk-pounding-berkshire-052506483.html Buffett copycats risk a pounding as Berkshire portfolio suffers NEW YORK (Reuters) - It's not been a good time for Warren Buffett wannabes. Sharp drops in many of the stocks owned by Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway in recent weeks hit the sprawling conglomerate's equity portfolio hard. The loss on seven of those holdings alone totals more than $5 billion provided Berkshire's stakes have remained the same since June 30, the last date for which they were disclosed. Last year, for the first time since Buffett took control of Berkshire in 1965, the company's five-year gain in book value per share underperformed the S&P 500's five-year rise, The performance of a major DJIA component Could that be because the Chinese can make the same machines at a fraction of the price, only because their board members don't need private jets etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F430murci Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Love how people not even in the US have so much first hand knowledge about how people are really doing here in the US. Would you believe that outside your nationalistic world there is also television, newspapers and even internet. And most of all there is a conscience of how the US lead the whole world in an economic downturn in 2007, and now even try to blame Europe for their lying and cheating. So me watching TV or reading nutty web sites on the Net really shows me how happy or well people are doing in Thailand, China, Russia or anywhere? Gotcha! All this talk about how horrible things are and how everyone is a slave to debt and has no money here does not coincide with what I SEE and LIVE every day. Are things perfect. No!, but LOL at some if the ridiculous notions some of you have filled in your heads. Yep, the US really screwed up with CMOs and CDOs. I was deep into it helping banks apply for TARP and litigating/arbitrating claims related to those getting burned by bad investments at both the individual level and at the institutional level . . . and I do not hear anyone IN THE REAL WORLD trying to blame Europe for the world for our mortgage backed security debacle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruncher Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Love how people not even in the US have so much first hand knowledge about how people are really doing here in the US. Would you believe that outside your nationalistic world there is also television, newspapers and even internet. And most of all there is a conscience of how the US lead the whole world in an economic downturn in 2007, and now even try to blame Europe for their lying and cheating. So me watching TV or reading nutty web sites on the Net really shows me how happy or well people are doing in Thailand, China, Russia or anywhere? Gotcha! All this talk about how horrible things are and how everyone is a slave to debt and has no money here does not coincide with what I SEE and LIVE every day. Are things perfect. No!, but LOL at some if the ridiculous notions some of you have filled in your heads. Yep, the US really screwed up with CMOs and CDOs. I was deep into it helping banks apply for TARP and litigating/arbitrating claims related to those getting burned by bad investments at both the individual level and at the institutional level . . . and I do not hear anyone IN THE REAL WORLD trying to blame Europe for the world for our mortgage backed security debacle. Here is a comment from another US investor icon, but of course I have no doubt that you are better informed. http://finance.yahoo.com/video/carl-icahn-markets-better-2008-223904949.html Carl Icahn: Markets Better Than 2008, Still May `Break' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJP Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Love how people not even in the US have so much first hand knowledge about how people are really doing here in the US. Would you believe that outside your nationalistic world there is also television, newspapers and even internet. And most of all there is a conscience of how the US lead the whole world in an economic downturn in 2007, and now even try to blame Europe for their lying and cheating. So me watching TV or reading nutty web sites on the Net really shows me how happy or well people are doing in Thailand, China, Russia or anywhere? Gotcha! All this talk about how horrible things are and how everyone is a slave to debt and has no money here does not coincide with what I SEE and LIVE every day. Are things perfect. No!, but LOL at some if the ridiculous notions some of you have filled in your heads. Yep, the US really screwed up with CMOs and CDOs. I was deep into it helping banks apply for TARP and litigating/arbitrating claims related to those getting burned by bad investments at both the individual level and at the institutional level . . . and I do not hear anyone IN THE REAL WORLD trying to blame Europe for the world for our mortgage backed security debacle. As I understand it, it was the deregulation of the City of London that actually enabled the chaos. Brown and Balls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCruncher Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 Love how people not even in the US have so much first hand knowledge about how people are really doing here in the US. Would you believe that outside your nationalistic world there is also television, newspapers and even internet. And most of all there is a conscience of how the US lead the whole world in an economic downturn in 2007, and now even try to blame Europe for their lying and cheating. So me watching TV or reading nutty web sites on the Net really shows me how happy or well people are doing in Thailand, China, Russia or anywhere? Gotcha! All this talk about how horrible things are and how everyone is a slave to debt and has no money here does not coincide with what I SEE and LIVE every day. Are things perfect. No!, but LOL at some if the ridiculous notions some of you have filled in your heads. Yep, the US really screwed up with CMOs and CDOs. I was deep into it helping banks apply for TARP and litigating/arbitrating claims related to those getting burned by bad investments at both the individual level and at the institutional level . . . and I do not hear anyone IN THE REAL WORLD trying to blame Europe for the world for our mortgage backed security debacle. As I understand it, it was the deregulation of the City of London that actually enabled the chaos. Brown and Balls. The reason was because European banks had bought a lot of mortgage debt from the US banks, while the US banks had placed bets against the housing market Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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