Do You Try To "fit In" In Thailand?

[Charma]

It seems most posters so far are in the "try to conform if you can" camp. Looking at the broader picture, evidence of the diffiuculties of conforming to a new culture can be found in the businesses that build up around ex-pat communities. Often in such places you will find western food outlets, not just the big chains, but the smaller independent outfits that will provide what people want. So you will see "british Pubs", "American Burgers", and be able to find "English Breakfast" with all the signage to show it is available. I accept that much of this is also marketed at the tourist trade, but it would be a measure of your ability to integrate, to look at how much use you made of such places. When in Thailand I try and avoid them, but after a while I do get the craving for some things from home. This also goes for the need to interact with people from my own culture, especially after a long spell with the Thai in-laws.

[baboon]

There is a lot of coverage back in the UK about immigrants to that country. Some people object that certain immigrants don't learn to speak English, only follow the law when it suits them, and are simply there to abuse the benefits system.

If people in the UK expect immigrants living in the country to show respect then it stands to reason that they should do the same when staying in someone elses country. Sadly some of those very same people act like absolute animals whilst overseas, looking down on the local people and generally doing whatever they want.

Example: My wife and I had to go down to Pattaya last week on business and went to Walking Street in the evening for dinner. I was amazed at the number of men walking around and sat in bars who weren't wearing any shirts/tshirts. I wonder how many of them would get annoyed at home if they saw an immigrant failing to respect their culture?

I don't make any special effort (except with the language) as it all seems pretty much like common sense and not much different to how I would act normally. I mean who really went round patting other adult's heads and pointing their feet at people in their own countries anyway?

Two great posts there!

Yeees,I try to fit in- to a certain degree.I like Thai food and eat it 99% of the time.

I dont usually bother to go to the Temple except to visit my Sons grave.I have respect for Buddhism but the ceremonies mean nothing to me.I have vaguely Christian baliefs and feel no need to change religion.

A Thai English teacher asked me to help a student with an English presentation.I was only too happy to oblige,but no fupping way was I going to wear a shirt and tie.If you want a favour,it is on my terms not yours.

I try to learn the language but not being the sharpest tool in the box,find it difficult.

I dont have a yellow shirt.No point of principle here,I just never got round to buying one,though I keep promising myself I will.

[Donz]

Yes I try to fit in where ever I go.

the language is so hard for me, I can say hi, goodnight, im hunger, im full count to 10.

Ive been learning just those words for about 2 months and I still stuff it up.

[sbk]

It seems most posters so far are in the "try to conform if you can" camp. Looking at the broader picture, evidence of the diffiuculties of conforming to a new culture can be found in the businesses that build up around ex-pat communities. Often in such places you will find western food outlets, not just the big chains, but the smaller independent outfits that will provide what people want. So you will see "british Pubs", "American Burgers", and be able to find "English Breakfast" with all the signage to show it is available. I accept that much of this is also marketed at the tourist trade, but it would be a measure of your ability to integrate, to look at how much use you made of such places. When in Thailand I try and avoid them, but after a while I do get the craving for some things from home. This also goes for the need to interact with people from my own culture, especially after a long spell with the Thai in-laws.

Charma, some of us are in Thailand most of the time I do not consider my willingness or unwillingness to eat Thai food 3 meals a day as a unwillingness to try to fit into the culture. I do consider my willingness to eat at weddings and funerals as an attempt, however. Regardless of the fact that, in general, the food is inedible for me as it is full of MSG to which I have a bad reaction. However, I will eat the curry (usually MSG free) and the sliced veggies.

It is the people who refuse to even try Thai food that I see as unwilling to accept the culture, just as I see Thai spouses who refuse to even try the food of their farang partners homeland as being just as unwilling.

But that is another topic in another thread

[camerata]

I din't mean it that way camerata (very good topic by the way). I guess what I was trying to say is that my friend was getting stressed out because all Thais wouldn't accept him, and in that case it is really like banging your head against a brick wall.

OK, I agree with you there. No point in becoming obsessed with acceptance.

[AlexLah]

Indeed I try to be myself as much as possible and when needed I adept.

Never had any problems in fact lots of fun.

For example eating noodles with a fork instead of spoon (Thai spagethi)

Those plastic bags with sauce I just punch a few holes in it instead of trying to get that ###### rubber

band off.

Anyway life is good here in Thailand

[camerata]

Sleep with lots of different women.

I don't smack them around though, and haven't got any of them knocked up then pulled a runner on them, so I'm not acting totally like a local.

Lucky for you because it's only the locals who occasionally have their peckers fed to the ducks.

[camerata]

I think it's worth pointing out though that you should realy try to understand why things are done in such a way and not just mimic the actions without knowing why you are doing it. One example of this is wearing yellow on a monday, i have seen many farangs wearing a yellow shirt on a monday but how many of them know why? Why a Monday and why yellow?

Good point. Apart from the symbolism involved, I think it's useful to understand that Thais haven't got a whole lot to look up to and give them hope other than the king. They have the trappings of democracy, but almost every aspect of the real thing has been subverted or ignored. They don't have a civil service that serves the taxpayer efficiently, their politicians are in it for self-enrichment, the Buddhist clergy is out of touch and losing credibility, and even the courts aren't always impartial.

[opothai]

treat people as you expect to be treated yourself and you should fit in most places

unless of course you don't like yourself

most idiots in los get wrecked in certain main tourist spots and have little regard for themselves let alone others, these are the people that let themselves down and thier countries name or reputation.

[baboon]

It seems most posters so far are in the "try to conform if you can" camp. Looking at the broader picture, evidence of the diffiuculties of conforming to a new culture can be found in the businesses that build up around ex-pat communities. Often in such places you will find western food outlets, not just the big chains, but the smaller independent outfits that will provide what people want. So you will see "british Pubs", "American Burgers", and be able to find "English Breakfast" with all the signage to show it is available. I accept that much of this is also marketed at the tourist trade, but it would be a measure of your ability to integrate, to look at how much use you made of such places. When in Thailand I try and avoid them, but after a while I do get the craving for some things from home. This also goes for the need to interact with people from my own culture, especially after a long spell with the Thai in-laws.

Charma, some of us are in Thailand most of the time I do not consider my willingness or unwillingness to eat Thai food 3 meals a day as a unwillingness to try to fit into the culture. I do consider my willingness to eat at weddings and funerals as an attempt, however. Regardless of the fact that, in general, the food is inedible for me as it is full of MSG to which I have a bad reaction. However, I will eat the curry (usually MSG free) and the sliced veggies.

It is the people who refuse to even try Thai food that I see as unwilling to accept the culture, just as I see Thai spouses who refuse to even try the food of their farang partners homeland as being just as unwilling.

But that is another topic in another thread

Sorry sbk.What is MSG?

[kayo]

try to fit in, not exactly, though I voted the second option.

Try to blend in and not create any rifts. More accurately. Enjoy and be enjoyed, without stirring feathers too much, if it can be avoided. I spend time quite happily by myself when in a place of beauty, but I´m social for survival sake.

[Charma]

It seems most posters so far are in the "try to conform if you can" camp. Looking at the broader picture, evidence of the diffiuculties of conforming to a new culture can be found in the businesses that build up around ex-pat communities. Often in such places you will find western food outlets, not just the big chains, but the smaller independent outfits that will provide what people want. So you will see "british Pubs", "American Burgers", and be able to find "English Breakfast" with all the signage to show it is available. I accept that much of this is also marketed at the tourist trade, but it would be a measure of your ability to integrate, to look at how much use you made of such places. When in Thailand I try and avoid them, but after a while I do get the craving for some things from home. This also goes for the need to interact with people from my own culture, especially after a long spell with the Thai in-laws.

Charma, some of us are in Thailand most of the time I do not consider my willingness or unwillingness to eat Thai food 3 meals a day as a unwillingness to try to fit into the culture. I do consider my willingness to eat at weddings and funerals as an attempt, however. Regardless of the fact that, in general, the food is inedible for me as it is full of MSG to which I have a bad reaction. However, I will eat the curry (usually MSG free) and the sliced veggies.

It is the people who refuse to even try Thai food that I see as unwilling to accept the culture, just as I see Thai spouses who refuse to even try the food of their farang partners homeland as being just as unwilling.

But that is another topic in another thread

Sorry sbk.What is MSG?

It is Mono Sodium Glutamate - a food flavour enhancer.

SBK - the point I was trying (maybe not very well) to make was that although most of the posters on this thread seem very keen to embrace Thai culture as far as they can, there are many more that also live in Thailand that seek out their own cultural needs constantly. Hence the huge market in western food and entertainment. I do not think it is such a feathure in Thailand as in other ex-pat communities though. Anyone visiting the south coast of Spain will think they have arrived in the east end of London!

[Tywais]

Sorry sbk.What is MSG?

"Monosodium glutamate, sodium glutamate, flavour enhancer 621 EU food additive code: E621. commonly known as MSG or Vetsin, is a sodium salt of glutamic acid. MSG is a food additive, popularly marketed as a "flavour enhancer".

"There have been reports of allergies and/or sensitivities to MSG, sometimes attributed to the free glutamic acid component, which has been blamed for causing a wide variety of physical symptoms such as migraines, nausea, digestive upsets, drowsiness, heart palpitations, asthma, anaphylactic shock, and many other complaints. "Chinese restaurant syndrome" is often used as an example of the symptoms purported to be caused by MSG"

Source: Wiki

[camerata]

I try to fit in with all those points that you mentioned, except concerning Bhuddist ceronmonies. Although I will attend these with my wife and her family, I politely decline to take part, but sit respectively and watch the events.

That's pretty much what a Thai Muslim or Christian would do, so I think you'd fit right in there.

I previously explained to the monks at the wat that this was not because I did not agree with Bhuddism, or that I believed in a different religion. I explained that it was because I didn't fully understand the reasons for some of the Bhuddist 'rituals'. For me, it would be very disrespectful to 'go through the motions' if I didn't understand why I was doing these rituals.

I went through a period when I thought it might somehow be "inappropriate" or disrespectful to join in the rituals of someone else's religion, but I think we Westerners tend to worry about this too much. I've found that Buddhists tend to be very open and welcome anyone joining in their ceremonies. I think this is because all good actions are believed to have a beneficial effect on the doer (i.e. he is making merit) and his religion is completely irrelevant. Japanese Buddhists are as open as Thai Buddhists, in my experience.

At our village wedding, this did cause some small problems because I insisted on understanding the reason for some of the wedding rituals. To be honest, most people had no idea why and just said that everyone always did such and such!

I did get a book ' The Dummies Guide to Bhuddism' (or something similar, but I'm still trying to fathom it all out......

I doubt you will figure it out very easily from a general book on Buddhism because most of the ritual is cultural stuff that's accumulated over the centuries. Possibly the book Understanding Thai Buddhism by M.L. Manich Jumsai would help, but I haven't read it yet. Strictly speaking, a wedding ceremony is not a Buddhist wedding, it's a wedding at which Buddhist monks are invited to give a blessing at some point. The monks are not celebrants as a vicar would be at a Christian wedding. I think this is mentioned in Phra Farang.

[Lacoste]

Yes I try to fit in where ever I go.

the language is so hard for me, I can say hi, goodnight, im hunger, im full count to 10.

Ive been learning just those words for about 2 months and I still stuff it up.

Donz, i dont mean to be rude but maybe you should focus on your English first before moving on to another language.

Edited July 26, 2006 by Lacoste

[dog412]

i believe the old adage was to "rise above", wherever you are.

[Ijustwannateach]

As someone who is employed in Thailand (and not self-employed) it's somewhat more important for me to "fit in" as much as possible, but I believe it would be important even if I were retired. I'd say that what I've learned in terms of fitting in at work has also helped me in private life, and vice-versa.

[lannarebirth]

" Do you make an effort to fit in?"

Yes, I do make an effort to fit in. That is sometimes complicated by the fact that so many Thais I know make an effort to accomodate me as a farang, that I'm often robbed of the opportunity. Still, whoever's being courteous to whomever, it's a pleasant experience.

"For example, are you wearing yellow on Mondays to honour the king?"

No, I don't. It strikes me as tokenism (which in small measure can be very nice). What I DO do, is practice the Kings sustainable farming practices. I'd probably never have tried these things if not for his striong and wise advocacy. I get mixed reactions from other Thais for this.

"Have you made an effort to learn Thai?"

I have made an effort with mixed success. I can understand about half of what's said to and around me, and can be understood about half of the time. Sadly, I'm lazier and more stupid and more deaf than I used to be , but I'm committed to improving. I often have my friends laughing over my progress, but they respect the effort.

"Do you try not to be critical or emotional when dealing with Thais?"

Yes I do. I wasn't always that way, but have discovered I was hurting myself by not adapting well. In addition I have discovered that what might have initially seemed like impediments, turned out not to be at all. Almost every setback I've experienced here has led to an even better outcome. If I hadn't adapted in that way I might never have gotten to experience that life lesson.

"Do you wai to the proper people at the proper time?"

I do, and when I'm not sure I wai higher. No one seems offended by that. I'm told I have a very "sincere" wai, though I don't know how that opinion is derived.

"Do you go to boring weddings and funerals when invited by people you hardly know?"

I've been to both, and since I haven't been to too many, I don't find it boring yet.

"Do you avoid pointing your feet at people?"

Yes I do. I only had to be taught that lesson once.

"Do you eat Thai food?"

Almost exclusively.

"Do you attend Buddhist ceremonies or tham-boon when invited to?"

I do attend these ceremonies. I am Buddhist and it is one of the few areas that's a bit uncomfortable for me. I give to various projects in the wats near me and there's usually a big show about ME maing a presentation to the luang por or another monk. I don't want to do it, have said so, and I'm always overruled. Actually, merit making is one of the few Buddhist tenets I don't embrace FOR MYSELF. What I give, I give because it makes me very happy to do so.

"Do you stand still when the national anthem is played in public places?"

Always

"There are some activities which are actually illegal in Thailand but they seem to be accepted in popular Thai culture, like giving bribes to the police, buying pirate software or DVDs, and companies using two sets of accounting books."

I've never bribed anyone, but I have given "honoraria". I've bought the odd DVD. No funny business with bookkeeping.

In summary I would say I try to fit in and most know I'm trying. I'm lucky that it's no trial for me to make the effort. I get back more for my effort than I ever give.

[antonuk2010]

Yeah it's great that farang should try to fit in, in Thailand. We are always banging on about immigrants not respecting are cultural ways back home,' well what cultural ways we actually have'. We should practice what we preach, without looking stupid of course, and I'm sure if you have half a brain you can avoid letting yourself down. I'm sure Thais actually have some sort of a idea of what Thai virtues you should take on board, and I bet it's not that extensive, but I think the more you integrate the better. Learn the language, eat the food, take your shoes and don't go putting your feet in their faces, and you will be happy days.

[RamdomChances]

Most of the "fitting in" stuff like touching heads, waiing, pointing feet I tend to do as second nature now, although most people are pretty tolerent and dont really expect you to know, looking back I probably did make an effort to do those things initialy. Language is still an ongoing effort but I must admit that once you know what to say in 90% of situations you tend to ease up a bit.

Wearing yellow shirt's I dont bother but then again no one around here really does as its a farming comunity, I dont really think my cows care one way or another

Buddist "stuff" Ive been to literaly hundreds of wedding's and funerals so pretty much know how to behave at them. I don't "Tam boon" as I'm an athiest and just dont belive in it, if I find myself at a wat or religious service I generaly just sit at the back or wait outside.

Probably one of my overiding reasons for "trying to fit in" was the fact that I really hate people fussing over me , my mother-in-law used to follow me around plugging fans in wherever I sat, cook "special" food that sort of thing, where as I'm just as comfertable sat cross legged on the floor and will eat just about anything.

Living in a rural community it takes literaly years for the barriers to come down and thats with making an effort, for most people mabye just visiting their in-laws just be polite and open minded and they would have no problems

[kc_phil]

I cannot imagine moving to a country and not making a concerted effort to learn the language.

Thailand, Japan, Mexico...doesn't matter.

My skin color or features may not change, but i can do alot to make sure i fit in...If you don't play the local's game, you'll never score the points.

If i didn't want fit into the fabric of a country, why did i move there in the first place. (obviously this applies only if the move was made by choice rather than external factors)

[bannork]

To turn the question round, I don't think I could fit in if I went back to England.

No vendors? that makes streetlife a bit dull.

No taxis, tuktuks, skylabs or motorbike taxis instantly available at the beckoning of a hand? very inconvenient.

No wearing shorts and Tshirt 365 days a year with clothes dry on the washing line within 2 hours? expensive as well as inconvenient (dryers)

No restaurants open anywhere, anytime? meticulous planning required-stress.

Nothing cheap, if I remember right a bottle of water was over a pound at Heathrow airport last time I was there.

No talking to kids you don't know? arrested by social workers, limited human contact.

I'm sure the list goes on, it's far easier to fit in to Thailand.

[sbk]

Most of the "fitting in" stuff like touching heads, waiing, pointing feet I tend to do as second nature now, although most people are pretty tolerent and dont really expect you to know, looking back I probably did make an effort to do those things initialy. Language is still an ongoing effort but I must admit that once you know what to say in 90% of situations you tend to ease up a bit.

Wearing yellow shirt's I dont bother but then again no one around here really does as its a farming comunity, I dont really think my cows care one way or another

Buddist "stuff" Ive been to literaly hundreds of wedding's and funerals so pretty much know how to behave at them. I don't "Tam boon" as I'm an athiest and just dont belive in it, if I find myself at a wat or religious service I generaly just sit at the back or wait outside.

Probably one of my overiding reasons for "trying to fit in" was the fact that I really hate people fussing over me , my mother-in-law used to follow me around plugging fans in wherever I sat, cook "special" food that sort of thing, where as I'm just as comfertable sat cross legged on the floor and will eat just about anything.

Living in a rural community it takes literaly years for the barriers to come down and thats with making an effort, for most people mabye just visiting their in-laws just be polite and open minded and they would have no problems

Excellent post Random, and the last part is so true, regardless of where you live in the world. Either you are from here or you are not from here and it doesn't matter if you are Thai or not.

[camerata]

"Do you go to boring weddings and funerals when invited by people you hardly know?"

I've been to both, and since I haven't been to too many, I don't find it boring yet.

Wait until you're older and get stuck alone at the VIP table with the bride's parents.

"Do you attend Buddhist ceremonies or tham-boon when invited to?"

I do attend these ceremonies. I am Buddhist and it is one of the few areas that's a bit uncomfortable for me. I give to various projects in the wats near me and there's usually a big show about ME maing a presentation to the luang por or another monk. I don't want to do it, have said so, and I'm always overruled. Actually, merit making is one of the few Buddhist tenets I don't embrace FOR MYSELF. What I give, I give because it makes me very happy to do so.

I find that Buddhist or not I am usually expected to take a leading part at funerals of employees' parents because I am relatively senior in the company. It's a matter of hai kiat rather than religion. But that happens to any senior (in years or position) person.

In summary I would say I try to fit in and most know I'm trying. I'm lucky that it's no trial for me to make the effort. I get back more for my effort than I ever give.

That's my experience too.

[Minburi]

I try and fit it. But find it is not me trying it is the Thai person letting me try. Some look and assume I do not speak Thai or I do not understand the Thai culture or I even want to understand it.

I do my best in most situations. No not perfect and I am still learning and think I will continue to learn as there are many aspects to Thailand that show up as you gain further insights.

Do I tire of it sometimes? Yes because of for the first reasons I mentioned where I am not getting a fair shake or chance as I am a falang and will always be

[Scott]

I don't try to fit in because I usually make a fool out of myself, so I just try to be myself. That said, I do try and make sure that I don't do things that are offensive to Thai culture. I think you can be well-mannered and well-behaved without trying to fit in.

[meadish_sweetball]

I don't try to fit in because I usually make a fool out of myself, so I just try to be myself. That said, I do try and make sure that I don't do things that are offensive to Thai culture. I think you can be well-mannered and well-behaved without trying to fit in.

That's just a question of degrees though, isn't it. I am not really doing something I feel uncomfortable with doing when I observe the basic levels of politeness according to Thais, so it is no problem to me. And most things are really just common sense that most of us will be aware of from our home countries. There are a few areas that aren't, and for those I think it's fair enough if not everyone adapts fully - find the right balance and that is usually enough.

[jdinasia]

I Pretty well do OK fitting in. I am smart enough to know when to try and when not to bother. Unlike Old Hand Luke most people that have been here for awehile can handle the "wai" appropriately.

Speaking Thai is important ... having just moved to Phuket from BKK ... My landlord and his wife can understand me ... but I am stuffed to try and understand them at times. Completely different dialect!

[PeaceBlondie]

This is my third or fourth country, and I always try to fit in. This is the longest I've lived in any foreign country. My mouth is absolutely, painfully allergic to the mildest chilies, and I cannot eat 98% of Thai food. Kaow phat gai; that's about the only meal I can manage. But I honestly tried.

Likewise, the language will always be foreign to my brain, ears and tongue. I've learned a few phrases, but I'm tone deaf. A few phrases and words can go a long way, and then stop abruptly. I tried; I'm still trying.

The rest has been easy. For the wai, I have always found that any time a farang tries to wai, it's accepted graciously. At work, I used to get waiied up to a hundred times a day, so I'm used to it (besides, I'm older than .....than.... I forget). My boyfriend's family always waiis me (except his mother, who I know deserves a wai from me), and they fit me into the family.

Still, I forget sometimes. Recently, we were sitting in a big waiting room, and the seated man in front of me dropped a few one-baht coins on the floor. To help him retrieve the dirty coin closest to me, I pushed the dirty coin on the dirty floor with my dirty sandal. No, no! Then my boyfriend let me listen to his MP3 music with one loose earphone, and I enjoyed Thai music.

Nobody's mentioned TRAFFIC and driving in Thailand. We took delivery of a used car tonight, and I was all over the road, dealing with errant motorcyclists on the left, being told to drive down the center of the multiple lane road, figuring out that the windscreen wiper stalk was the turn signal stalk and vice versa.....very harrowing at night, on a busy road.

Nice place to live. I can even go to "Seven" and buy a phone card by telling the clerk, "One two call, ha roi baht" and then she goes on and on in Thai.