UK cops 'to only observe'

[RTH10260]

"Details of the agreement were yet to be worked out, but would involve "close coordination" between Thai authorities and the British Embassy in Bangkok, Col. Weerachon Sukondhapatipak, the deputy spokesman of Thailand's Army, said."

From ABC Australia

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-18/british-police-to-join-thai-investigation-into-tourist-murders/5824552

Will they be able to bring the visiting police officers to Thailand before the case goes to trial, or will there be some diplomatic snafu that delays them?

[RTH10260]

He also told reporters that Cameron expected the British public to "take some more time to understand this matter".

How about "it will take some time before Thai authorities understands that this will not go away and the UK is watching and ............. judging"

Happens when military trained minds attent international meetings rather than diplomats.

Keeps me wondering how many in the Thai foreign service are waiting for the General to trip and faceplant. I guess Thai tradition will keep staff from warning of the banana peel in the way.

[RTH10260]

The PM should not even been invited to attend he is unelected Thailand is under martial law

Countries get invited, not people. It's the countries choice who they delegate. A saavy politician may have chosen a top ranking official from the Foreign Ministry as delegate so shortly after moving himself into the prime minister position.

[RTH10260]

Thai police are very dangerous. One example where a Saudi businessman went to Thailand to investigate the theft of a diamond from a Saudi prince. He was murdered.Lt Gen Chalor of the RTP was sentenced to death in 2009, which was reduced to 50 years later. Guess what he is now a free man. 6 policemen were jailed for murder too. Being a senior policeman in Thailand is akin to being a mafia boss in other countries. They cannot get there by being a nice, law-abiding citizen.

Note the minor difference between an unknown private businessman and an official delegation from another nation. Nobody with sane mind will touch a delegate. But then the delegate in this case will not get anywhere near of investigating on his own and turn up dangerous facts.

[RTH10260]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I hope, for the British cops sake, that they will be allowed to carry weapons.

As a rule of thumb, British cops don't carry in the normal course of their duties.

Why would they want to carry a weapon whilst on holiday?

some people are dense. the British police are not coming on "holiday". now go back to sleep.

Formally the Brits will have an order, yes, but defacto they have limited to no clout in Thailand. They will find themselves on a holiday trip to BKK, KT and any other island they wish to see. Much handshaking and speeches with photographs among officials. But else?

[theoldgit]

A number of posts flaming/insulting other members removed.

Please don't flame others in future just because you don't agree with their views.

[AGareth2]

we are forgetting cause of death and weapon used

physical size

number of victims and assailants

[JohnThailandJohn]

JTJ is from Washington, D.C. Maybe if the victims were yanks he would have some clarity

More untruths stated as fact. Never have I lived in DC and certainly not born there either but don't let the common theme of making up BS and stating it as fact detract you from your conspiracy theories.

While I have many times stated where I am from in other threads ... the only thing I am that applies to this topic is that I am logical and not emotional about the case or do I have any other motives than seeing what is almost surely likely and what is very implausible. And with this case it is highly likely the admitted murdering rapists are the right ones arrested and very implausible there is some vast conspiracy to cover up for a rich Thai kid.

And I could care less what the nationality the victims were as it is completely irrelevant unless you are so ignorant to believe or have been brainwashed into believing one nation's citizens are more important than another. If this is the case then no different than judging somebody's worth by the color of their skin .. both sick and sad to do either.

Edited October 20, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[JohnThailandJohn]

The truth about all police is that their only function is to collect evidence for the prosecution. That is all police in every country, sending cops from Britain to assist/observe/oversee/investigate is a PR exercise, they will assist the Thai police making their case. anyone that trusts the police in any country to do anything other then collect evidence for the prosecution does not understand the function of police.

While no help in bringing conspiracy theorists back to reality ... the truth is the last thing the UK wants is to create a problem between the UK and Thailand over this case and the UK police will also not want to cause problems with their relationships with Thai police.

There was the same type of things being posted about Lee Alderhouse never being extradited to Thailand from the UK because of the Thai justice system and its prison conditions but the reality is Lee Alderhouse is now sitting in a Thai prison back from the UK.

Probably when all things are finished the UK and Thai police will probably develop a closer relationship and agree to have more UK Officers come here on a regular basis as part of an exchange of knowledge (vacations).

Doesn't matter which police force is better trained or equipped or less corrupt when it comes to this Thai Criminal case.

[kamahele]

The Thai police as a whole could learn a lot from allowing police from the UK to not only help with the investigation but to train the Thai police on how to be a police officer period! Bring in the Brits and let them have at it with the Thai police department. Maybe lose face but help to save a nation.

[jdinasia]

The Thai police as a whole could learn a lot from allowing police from the UK to not only help with the investigation but to train the Thai police on how to be a police officer period! Bring in the Brits and let them have at it with the Thai police department. Maybe lose face but help to save a nation.

The RTA already gets training from the US.

[outboard]

The Thai police as a whole could learn a lot from allowing police from the UK to not only help with the investigation but to train the Thai police on how to be a police officer period! Bring in the Brits and let them have at it with the Thai police department. Maybe lose face but help to save a nation.

The RTA already gets training from the US.

yes but the British police get caught less often being corrupt then the US police.

[JohnThailandJohn]

The Thai police as a whole could learn a lot from allowing police from the UK to not only help with the investigation but to train the Thai police on how to be a police officer period! Bring in the Brits and let them have at it with the Thai police department. Maybe lose face but help to save a nation.

The RTA already gets training from the US.

The US also do training with Thai police and Thais get the FBI involved in cases they need help but of course this doesn't match with the reason they don't get training from the UK or ask them to help with this case because of losing face.

But apparently none of this matter since Thailand may not exist much longer without the UK training of Thai police in order to help save the nation..

Edit: No to mention UK police already have (and possibly continue to) provide training to Thai police.

Edited October 20, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[jdinasia]

The Thai police as a whole could learn a lot from allowing police from the UK to not only help with the investigation but to train the Thai police on how to be a police officer period! Bring in the Brits and let them have at it with the Thai police department. Maybe lose face but help to save a nation.

The RTA already gets training from the US.

yes but the British police get caught less often being corrupt then the US police.

Do they??

[outboard]

The Thai police as a whole could learn a lot from allowing police from the UK to not only help with the investigation but to train the Thai police on how to be a police officer period! Bring in the Brits and let them have at it with the Thai police department. Maybe lose face but help to save a nation.

The RTA already gets training from the US.

yes but the British police get caught less often being corrupt then the US police.

Do they??

Yes

[RTH10260]

[/* large snip */

Anyway, all that is required of the British police, is they take their own DNA samples from the accused, and send them back to the UK. No investigation required.

That's was keeps me puzzled. Many asking for a DNA sample of the accused be sent to the UK.

Then what?

The forensic examination (disection) of the bodies was done in Bangkok. The hospital there will hold the tissue samples taken, and any swipes of body parts.

After that the corpses were returned to the UK and have no further evidential value as too many people handled them, leading to DNA contamination. Not to think how evidence wise the bodies were "secured" on the beach of KT.

Now how can anyone be sure about the state of the evidence determined in Bangkok and that it has not been tampered with?

The UK investigators would need to be able to get their own second opinion on that stuff and do their own DNA analysis on said evidence to compare with that of the accused.

[jdinasia]

The Thai police as a whole could learn a lot from allowing police from the UK to not only help with the investigation but to train the Thai police on how to be a police officer period! Bring in the Brits and let them have at it with the Thai police department. Maybe lose face but help to save a nation.

The RTA already gets training from the US.

yes but the British police get caught less often being corrupt then the US police.

Do they??

Yes

I would have to see that statistic from a reasonable source that takes population and oversight into account. The UK is tiny yet just yesterday there was a story about police corruption.

The issue, of course, is the credibility of UK police and their observer status.

[RTH10260]

again if Thailand Junta has the will....UK police will not only observe..but also investigate and collect some evidence

same as the australian police in Bali,Indonesia

Bad example. In the Bali case the investigators were in place "within hours" so to speak. They were especially there to save forensic evidence of a bombing, but not to investigate and question people. In the KT case any Brits will be coming weeks too late and the place of crime has already been raked over. Nor will the Brits be allowed to make any interviews and investigation into people either.

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

You are one sick individual.

If so, the sickness comes from fact. As emotional and even traumatic for some as this case is, it will be forgotten to the masses in a relatively short time.

This is human nature; if people were to remember all the tragedies that happen in this world, there would not be enough asylums to house them all.

So does remembering tragedies = mad people ? Millions of people have died in my life time in tragic circumstances, cant say I've never felt the need for a visit to the nut house... Mind you I'm not American.

Strange argument you post.

Have you remembered the details of the millions of people that have died during your lifetime? Or even a tiny percentage of them?

Yes, you may remember the events, but the details will be locked in a dark place. It is a safety feature of the human mind that the details fade.

However this is just a personal observation, trick cyclists may have a different take on it. I do know for a fact that the many incidents where I was present that death or serious injury were involved in my earlier days became thankfully vague after a short period.

Perhaps my previous post should have read details and not events are forgotten?

BTW, nor am I an American, not sure what that has to do with it?

[Thaddeus]

<snip malformed quote>

I would have to see that statistic from a reasonable source that takes population and oversight into account. The UK is tiny yet just yesterday there was a story about police corruption.

The issue, of course, is the credibility of UK police and their observer status.

And the one before that one was when?

Here it is an everyday occurrence. Every single little Moo Ban in every province could report multiple incidents of police corruption, you should know of all people.

[RTH10260]

Prayut said Cameron told him that he saw nothing wrong with the Thai justice system, but that many Britons had suspicions about the police investigation.

Isn't that whats called a 'contradiction'

Depends what you mean by a "contradiction" (in inverted commas), if you mean, simply, a contradiction then clearly it is not, it's called two differing views.

I'd say a diplomatic mind advised an army brain to walk softly on the matter, but the army brain does not absorb the finer details.

[RTH10260]

/* snip */

Could be a way to get British police in the country under the radar. Family hires Thai PI, who works with "assistants" originating from England, and work all the clues of the case, not just those followed by the BIB.

On another aspect, what are the BIB thinking? Do they for one moment think that a Westerner would want to pursue this avenue? They really have no idea.

I just don't believe this case is of such high visibility in Thailand that a local PI will expose themselves to the troubles and invite the wrath of "influential people" that possibly may be involved. Remember, your Thai PI will have to live the rest of his life here, a PI does not have the backing as investigative journalist may have in the media.

[outboard]

I would have to see that statistic from a reasonable source that takes population and oversight into account. The UK is tiny yet just yesterday there was a story about police corruption.

The issue, of course, is the credibility of UK police and their observer status.

Link to reasonable source on corrupt police getting caught that knows that population wise UK is not tiny

there is no issue except on these forum, the UK police like any other police , collect evidence for the prosecution, now maybe you are not understanding this statement, what this means is that every police force in the world has a single function, that function is to collect information (evidence) for the purpose of securing a conviction in a court of law. they are not interested in what really happened they are interested in only providing evidence for the prosecutors to use in court to win, they do not collect evidence for the defence they do not collect information for the public, they do not collect proof for family members they collect evidence for the prosecution.

What this means in relation to this case -:

in an advisory or observers role the UK police will look at the evidence the Thai police have and assist them in firming up the evidence they have to secure the conviction of the suspects, they are not there to discredit the Thai police they are not there to find new suspects they are there to assist/advise/observe the collection of the evidence for the prosecution of the suspects in this case , they are not opening a new case, they are not searching for evidence to convict someone for corruption they are there as a PR exercise to make the British public feel better about this investigation.

Do I think these 2 people are the ones that committed these crimes?

how the hell would I know I have exactly the same access to the evidence that everyone else here does, none, not one iota, absolutely zero, that's right all the arm chair experts here are basing all their knowledge of this case on some poorly translated suspect reporting in newspaper articles or in legal terms "hearsay" not admissible in any court in any country in the world (at least any with a functioning legal system)

do I think the Thai police are honest?

no, no police are honest, that is not their function nor is it their job. Their job is to collect evidence for the prosecution.

[bunuel]

This seems fo be a very sober and cogent prediction of what is going to happen.

Bottom line is that this UK " assistance " mission would never be happening at all if there

were not many obvious problems with the RTP investigation. If this were the open and shut

case that the Brown Nose Kow Tow Brigade insists that it is, the UK would never bother to

send this Scotland Yard delegation.

And, once they are here, expect them to do some serious investigation. As this poster correctly

notes, what is made public will be a political hot potato. But seems like there are a lot of skeletons

in the Thai closet..

The UK police team will be a very experienced group of officers, probably with back-up of a few heavies. They will already have a lot of information and know exactly how they will deal with the matters in hand, namely, does the dna match or not, and what is the truth regarding the human rights issues - these are the UK's publicly stated intentions.

In the process of this work it is possible that they may make other discoveries, but these would not be made public. If the Thai administration attempts to obstruct either objective ( the need for which has come about solely as a result of the appalling record of the RTP ) this will surely be made world-wide news.

It is shameful that it has become necessary for the British Police to be involved.

[Franky Bear]

Some amount of absolute Bull Poop in this thread.

here's an idea. Why not sit back and wait till the British Cops are on site, then give them a day or two to settle and see what they have to say. The British press have a big part to play too as they won't be scared of printing anything about the time the Brit cops are here and any obstacles they encounter.

Time for some people to stand well away from a keyboard and stop ingesting LSD

[RTH10260]

the difference is the british police do there job don't take tea money ,wish i had to pay 200 bt every time i got stopped for speeding in the UK ,

Even Prince Charles was fined for speeding!

No way! That is a totally screwed up system if the future king is given a speeding fine.

Why? No-one should be above the law, what's so special about Prince Charles?

You couldn't even contemplate making such a statement in public in Thailand.

As wouldn't be needed with all roads blocked off and cleared from traffic an hour before a privileged vehicle passes at the speed of choice.

[jdinasia]

I would have to see that statistic from a reasonable source that takes population and oversight into account. The UK is tiny yet just yesterday there was a story about police corruption.

The issue, of course, is the credibility of UK police and their observer status.

And the one before that one was when?

Here it is an everyday occurrence. Every single little Moo Ban in every province could report multiple incidents of police corruption, you should know of all people.

It was 1000's of UK police.

[jdinasia]

Some amount of absolute Bull Poop in this thread.

here's an idea. Why not sit back and wait till the British Cops are on site, then give them a day or two to settle and see what they have to say. The British press have a big part to play too as they won't be scared of printing anything about the time the Brit cops are here and any obstacles they encounter.

Time for some people to stand well away from a keyboard and stop ingesting LSD

Why would you expect any statement from the UK police? Not their job to comment. If they did (instead of the FO) that would certainly end their involvement even as observers.

The rest is simply attacking posters who see things differently.

[jdinasia]

I would have to see that statistic from a reasonable source that takes population and oversight into account. The UK is tiny yet just yesterday there was a story about police corruption.

The issue, of course, is the credibility of UK police and their observer status.

Link to reasonable source on corrupt police getting caught that knows that population wise UK is not tiny

there is no issue except on these forum, the UK police like any other police , collect evidence for the prosecution, now maybe you are not understanding this statement, what this means is that every police force in the world has a single function, that function is to collect information (evidence) for the purpose of securing a conviction in a court of law. they are not interested in what really happened they are interested in only providing evidence for the prosecutors to use in court to win, they do not collect evidence for the defence they do not collect information for the public, they do not collect proof for family members they collect evidence for the prosecution.

What this means in relation to this case -:

in an advisory or observers role the UK police will look at the evidence the Thai police have and assist them in firming up the evidence they have to secure the conviction of the suspects, they are not there to discredit the Thai police they are not there to find new suspects they are there to assist/advise/observe the collection of the evidence for the prosecution of the suspects in this case , they are not opening a new case, they are not searching for evidence to convict someone for corruption they are there as a PR exercise to make the British public feel better about this investigation.

Do I think these 2 people are the ones that committed these crimes?

how the hell would I know I have exactly the same access to the evidence that everyone else here does, none, not one iota, absolutely zero, that's right all the arm chair experts here are basing all their knowledge of this case on some poorly translated suspect reporting in newspaper articles or in legal terms "hearsay" not admissible in any court in any country in the world (at least any with a functioning legal system)

do I think the Thai police are honest?

no, no police are honest, that is not their function nor is it their job. Their job is to collect evidence for the prosecution.

I would agree. However, if they see exculpatory evidence I would think they would point that out too.

[outboard]

I would have to see that statistic from a reasonable source that takes population and oversight into account. The UK is tiny yet just yesterday there was a story about police corruption.

The issue, of course, is the credibility of UK police and their observer status.

Link to reasonable source on corrupt police getting caught that knows that population wise UK is not tiny

there is no issue except on these forum, the UK police like any other police , collect evidence for the prosecution, now maybe you are not understanding this statement, what this means is that every police force in the world has a single function, that function is to collect information (evidence) for the purpose of securing a conviction in a court of law. they are not interested in what really happened they are interested in only providing evidence for the prosecutors to use in court to win, they do not collect evidence for the defence they do not collect information for the public, they do not collect proof for family members they collect evidence for the prosecution.

What this means in relation to this case -:

in an advisory or observers role the UK police will look at the evidence the Thai police have and assist them in firming up the evidence they have to secure the conviction of the suspects, they are not there to discredit the Thai police they are not there to find new suspects they are there to assist/advise/observe the collection of the evidence for the prosecution of the suspects in this case , they are not opening a new case, they are not searching for evidence to convict someone for corruption they are there as a PR exercise to make the British public feel better about this investigation.

Do I think these 2 people are the ones that committed these crimes?

how the hell would I know I have exactly the same access to the evidence that everyone else here does, none, not one iota, absolutely zero, that's right all the arm chair experts here are basing all their knowledge of this case on some poorly translated suspect reporting in newspaper articles or in legal terms "hearsay" not admissible in any court in any country in the world (at least any with a functioning legal system)

do I think the Thai police are honest?

no, no police are honest, that is not their function nor is it their job. Their job is to collect evidence for the prosecution.

I would agree. However, if they see exculpatory evidence I would think they would point that out too.

then you would be thinking incorrectly, The function of police is to collect evidence for the prosecution it is not their function to collect evidence for the defence.