What is wrong with Promenada?

[LawrenceChee]

Heard from a friend the movie theatre just got shut down ...any confirmation ?

[DaamNaam]

Heard from a friend the movie theatre just got shut down ...any confirmation ?

Was open last night.

[LawrenceChee]

Heard from a friend the movie theatre just got shut down ...any confirmation ?

Was open last night.

Thanks whew its a nice cinema ...would be a shame to see it shut when I come back next month

[DaamNaam]

Heard from a friend the movie theatre just got shut down ...any confirmation ?

Was open last night.

Thanks whew its a nice cinema ...would be a shame to see it shut when I come back next month

Cinema chains like that don't give up so easily. Promenada and it's cinemas are getting busier day by day, they are in it for the long run.

[elektrified]

Heard from a friend the movie theatre just got shut down ...any confirmation ?

Was open last night.

Thanks whew its a nice cinema ...would be a shame to see it shut when I come back next month

Cinema chains like that don't give up so easily. Promenada and it's cinemas are getting busier day by day, they are in it for the long run.

I don't see how these cinemas can make it. Whenever I go to MAYA cinema there is never more than about 5-8 people in the screening. And I've been quite a few times. Promenada - usually about 12 people in the cinema for a screening.

[PostmanPat]

Funny thing, cinemas with few customers, shopping malls with few customers, businesses generally around Chiang Mai with few customers.....and yet they stay open despite everything.

I live in a new Moo Bahn near Hang Dong where it seems every house in my sector is sold and yet only one in four is occupied....." Bangkok owner, not live here" is the standard answer to my curiousity.

"Bangkok money" all over Chiang Mai it seems, in all sorts of ways and places......there must be an awful lot of money in "Bangkok" by all accounts, presumably in the hands of a few people/ families !!

New cars defaulted on and repossessed, new houses defaulted on and repossessed......theres something very seriously wrong with the state of the fabric of the economy in Thailand.....when will the big bubble go pop !!!!!!!!

It increasingly appears that theres this facade of consumerism, some can be paid for ("Bangkok") but most cant.....I think the blue touch paper has been lit but how long is the fuse??!!

[LawrenceChee]

I am waiting for the next pop to happen before I purchase a condo and I think maybe within the next 2 years at least in the smaller provinces it will slow down rather significantly

Most in the condo or house trades tell me these days when a customer walks in ...it's rare especially for the cookie cutter projects,

[elektrified]

Funny thing, cinemas with few customers, shopping malls with few customers, businesses generally around Chiang Mai with few customers.....and yet they stay open despite everything.

I live in a new Moo Bahn near Hang Dong where it seems every house in my sector is sold and yet only one in four is occupied....." Bangkok owner, not live here" is the standard answer to my curiousity.

"Bangkok money" all over Chiang Mai it seems, in all sorts of ways and places......there must be an awful lot of money in "Bangkok" by all accounts, presumably in the hands of a few people/ families !!

New cars defaulted on and repossessed, new houses defaulted on and repossessed......theres something very seriously wrong with the state of the fabric of the economy in Thailand.....when will the big bubble go pop !!!!!!!!

It increasingly appears that theres this facade of consumerism, some can be paid for ("Bangkok") but most cant.....I think the blue touch paper has been lit but how long is the fuse??!!

There is an insane amount of available cash to some in Bangkok. That is for sure. I am always amazed at some of the things I see when I go there. And yes, I too, hear the same thing on an almost daily basis "owner Bangkok - not live here".

Indeed there is something seriously wrong with the economy here, it is well documented.

Anyone notice the increases (like +40%) on some items in Rimping, Big C, etc. over the last week to 10 days?

[CMKiwi]

Yes I have noticed quite a few items that appear to have had a price increase. Not quite a 40% increase but an increase none the less. Not too sure why and I expect the roll on effect is that all the food stalls will also raise their prices.

Have never been to Promenada but may take the bike for a spin this arvo for a look see

[elektrified]

Yes I have noticed quite a few items that appear to have had a price increase. Not quite a 40% increase but an increase none the less. Not too sure why and I expect the roll on effect is that all the food stalls will also raise their prices.

Right, not all items have increases of +40%. I should have said "of up to 40% in the last week". But many of the same items I buy often are up 15-20% and some as high as 40%.

[cmsally]

Funny thing, cinemas with few customers, shopping malls with few customers, businesses generally around Chiang Mai with few customers.....and yet they stay open despite everything.

I live in a new Moo Bahn near Hang Dong where it seems every house in my sector is sold and yet only one in four is occupied....." Bangkok owner, not live here" is the standard answer to my curiousity.

"Bangkok money" all over Chiang Mai it seems, in all sorts of ways and places......there must be an awful lot of money in "Bangkok" by all accounts, presumably in the hands of a few people/ families !!

New cars defaulted on and repossessed, new houses defaulted on and repossessed......theres something very seriously wrong with the state of the fabric of the economy in Thailand.....when will the big bubble go pop !!!!!!!!

It increasingly appears that theres this facade of consumerism, some can be paid for ("Bangkok") but most cant.....I think the blue touch paper has been lit but how long is the fuse??!!

Can't remember exact figures, but Thailand has one of the highest increases in consumer debt since 2008. A sharp steep incline when you look at the graph.

Every day I seem to hear another story of how someone has overstretched and misjudged the economic situation.

Something has to give pretty soon.

[cmsally]

Funny thing, cinemas with few customers, shopping malls with few customers, businesses generally around Chiang Mai with few customers.....and yet they stay open despite everything.

I live in a new Moo Bahn near Hang Dong where it seems every house in my sector is sold and yet only one in four is occupied....." Bangkok owner, not live here" is the standard answer to my curiousity.

"Bangkok money" all over Chiang Mai it seems, in all sorts of ways and places......there must be an awful lot of money in "Bangkok" by all accounts, presumably in the hands of a few people/ families !!

New cars defaulted on and repossessed, new houses defaulted on and repossessed......theres something very seriously wrong with the state of the fabric of the economy in Thailand.....when will the big bubble go pop !!!!!!!!

It increasingly appears that theres this facade of consumerism, some can be paid for ("Bangkok") but most cant.....I think the blue touch paper has been lit but how long is the fuse??!!

There is an insane amount of available cash to some in Bangkok. That is for sure. I am always amazed at some of the things I see when I go there. And yes, I too, hear the same thing on an almost daily basis "owner Bangkok - not live here".

Indeed there is something seriously wrong with the economy here, it is well documented.

Anyone notice the increases (like +40%) on some items in Rimping, Big C, etc. over the last week to 10 days?

I might be wrong but I get the impression that BKK cash is not so free flowing as it has been. An awful lot of big projects looking for buyers in Singapore. That seems to be the general consensus of where the cash resides. Although of course doesn't mean to say its not Thai cash just because its in Singapore.

[LawrenceChee]

There is more advertising in the Singapore local papers for bangkok property but the price range are high for the value proposed

Edited October 27, 2014 by LawrenceChee

[Dante99]

It is going to drop, just a question of when, how fast and how far.

[StevieH]

Funny thing, cinemas with few customers, shopping malls with few customers, businesses generally around Chiang Mai with few customers.....and yet they stay open despite everything.

I live in a new Moo Bahn near Hang Dong where it seems every house in my sector is sold and yet only one in four is occupied....." Bangkok owner, not live here" is the standard answer to my curiousity.

"Bangkok money" all over Chiang Mai it seems, in all sorts of ways and places......there must be an awful lot of money in "Bangkok" by all accounts, presumably in the hands of a few people/ families !!

New cars defaulted on and repossessed, new houses defaulted on and repossessed......theres something very seriously wrong with the state of the fabric of the economy in Thailand.....when will the big bubble go pop !!!!!!!!

It increasingly appears that theres this facade of consumerism, some can be paid for ("Bangkok") but most cant.....I think the blue touch paper has been lit but how long is the fuse??!!

0.1% of thais own around half of the country's assets. it's a wealth inequality that makes america look positively socialist.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Richest-0-1own-half-of-nations-assets-30243892.html

[cmsally]

Funny thing, cinemas with few customers, shopping malls with few customers, businesses generally around Chiang Mai with few customers.....and yet they stay open despite everything.

I live in a new Moo Bahn near Hang Dong where it seems every house in my sector is sold and yet only one in four is occupied....." Bangkok owner, not live here" is the standard answer to my curiousity.

"Bangkok money" all over Chiang Mai it seems, in all sorts of ways and places......there must be an awful lot of money in "Bangkok" by all accounts, presumably in the hands of a few people/ families !!

New cars defaulted on and repossessed, new houses defaulted on and repossessed......theres something very seriously wrong with the state of the fabric of the economy in Thailand.....when will the big bubble go pop !!!!!!!!

It increasingly appears that theres this facade of consumerism, some can be paid for ("Bangkok") but most cant.....I think the blue touch paper has been lit but how long is the fuse??!!

0.1% of thais own around half of the country's assets. it's a wealth inequality that makes america look positively socialist.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Richest-0-1own-half-of-nations-assets-30243892.html

But at the moment it looks as though a lot of the 0.1% are building/developing things for the 99.9% to buy/consume.

If its a case of the big depositors are pressuring the banking sector to give out to the consumers, what kind of scenario is this going to lead to. Is there a point when the system snaps? Who is calling the shots regarding available liquidity and what could the possible consequences be?

There are a whole load of scenarios to explore, but the overall picture I get is that Thais are spending beyond their means.

[iainiain101]

Last year you couldnt go into a 7 Eleven without the Thai assistant greeting you with a mouthfull of metal and rubber bands.

Now hardly anyone has visible dental work, so either everyones teeth got better, or money is getting a lot tighter. I dont subscribe to the view that it has gone out of fasion, as you do still see them on what look to be richer Thais.

Edited October 27, 2014 by iainiain101

[mania]

Last year you couldnt go into a 7 Eleven without the Thai assistant greeting you with a mouthfull of metal and rubber bands.

Now hardly anyone has visible dental work, so either everyones teeth got better, or money is getting a lot tighter. I dont subscribe to the view that it has gone out of fassion, as you do still see them on what look to be richer Thais.

Those were many times cosmetic & not corrective braces. That fad died off.

Same for many Thai girls you see with glasses...believe it or not cosmetic plain glass

Kind of funny but my wife works with Uni girls so I see/hear all about their fads.

Not to discount what your implying about the economy though.

Funny thing is many of us from the west have seen this all before & it is so similar.

First the drive to own/have more...then the easy money/lending

Then the defaulting...then the banks overwhelmed with bad loans & over priced repossessed assets that none will

pay what is still owed on....then collapse

Difference here is if it occurs the same in Thailand they may not have the tools

to just create more debt as other countries did to bail their way...I wont say out but...deeper in yet still alive...barely

Edited October 27, 2014 by mania

[Sparkles]

Reported in the Bangkok press a week or so ago that one Finance company alone is repossessing 1,000 cars a month. I just bought one that had been trucked up from Bangkok,a bargain.

Motor scooters less than 2 years old are bringing less than half price even in CM.

Household debt is at record levels. Inflation of consumables is jumping as we all know. There would be multi 100's of empty shop houses available in CM alone and they are still building more.

You would need a crystal ball to know where its all going to end up but surely its not sustainable.

[LawrenceChee]

Hence you are always grateful to your grandfather who taught you to save for a rainy day

I have my cash ready when it breaks in a year or two and there are some great bargains in an already amazing country so win win for most who have the patience to wait and not get caught up in consumerism

[Rinrada]

So Big C is owned by a French company. I didnt know 7-eleven was owned by a Japanese company.I only know it started off in Houston USA when a man used to bring odds and ends back to his workplace and sell them to save his workmates going into town to shop.An example of fine USA initiative.(I am English)

Does anyone know who owns Maya.Is it Thai or foreign?

Thai people should not worry because all countries have multi-national companies.

Bye the way,Tesco was named after the daughter of its London owner.Tessa Cohen.First 3 letters of her first name and first two letters of her last name.Happy shopping!

John (Jacob-Jack) Cohen who came from the east end started his supermarket chain using the Initials of T.E.Stockwell ...a local tea merchant (TES) in Hackney/Whitechapel and the first 2 letters of his surname ..CO......sorry.

He had 2 daughters Irene and Shirley...now Dame Shirley (Porter) who got into a wee bit of trouble when she was Leader of Westminster City Council in the late 80s.....err.. I worked for her then...but know nuffin.....

Must admit she always put her hand in her pocket when it came to her round in the local gin joint ( the Albert Pub)....cant complain...but suppose if as the heiress to the Tescos fortunes....not so painfull......happy if controversial days...

[Oscar2]

Last year you couldnt go into a 7 Eleven without the Thai assistant greeting you with a mouthfull of metal and rubber bands.

Now hardly anyone has visible dental work, so either everyones teeth got better, or money is getting a lot tighter. I dont subscribe to the view that it has gone out of fassion, as you do still see them on what look to be richer Thais.

Those were many times cosmetic & not corrective braces. That fad died off.

Same for many Thai girls you see with glasses...believe it or not cosmetic plain glass

Kind of funny but my wife works with Uni girls so I see/hear all about their fads.

Not to discount what your implying about the economy though.

Funny thing is many of us from the west have seen this all before & it is so similar.

First the drive to own/have more...then the easy money/lending

Then the defaulting...then the banks overwhelmed with bad loans & over priced repossessed assets that none will

pay what is still owed on....then collapse

Difference here is if it occurs the same in Thailand they may not have the tools

to just create more debt as other countries did to bail their way...I wont say out but...deeper in yet still alive...barely

that is true. i thought it was funny when i learned that many of the kids wearing braces on their teeth were for 'fashion' only - or a sign of wealth. a girl showed me how they came off in 3 minutes time. only in Thailand... but also there was a boom of dentists doing ortho work on installment plans, or of course kids borrowing mom or dad's credit cards for 50K worth of cosmetic dentistry.

[slipperylobster]

I also prefer it and hope it stays open, if only for Rimping.

Airport Plaza will always remain busy, not because of its proximity with the airport (actually, it's nowhere near it) and town but because it's a be seen kind if place for teens. Robinsons is also a good store, you have the two food courts and cinema, decent range of shops and it's all quite well priced. But I still prefer Promenada for that bit of sophistication and because it is QUIET!

Its 700m as the crow flies to the Airport terminal, not so far.

Yes...it is just a 15 minute walk to the airport. I hang out at that mall just before my flights. It is, indeed, very close.

[midas]

I visited this place for the first time this morning and I have to say yes it is a superb environment to stroll around without the crowds. So from the consumer's point of view it's excellent. And today was no different, it seems to all the other occasions when posters here have commented on how quiet it is.

But what I worry about is the poor old developer/investor.

Being a foreign developer I would assume (and I would sincerely hope) that they carried out an in-depth feasibility study before starting this project and I would be very interested to read the findings, particularly who they considered would be their target audience that would actually spend money rather than use the place for entertainment. I can only imagine that any study was carried out prior to the 2008 financial crisis and that even the building was still in progress after the crisis began, so that the developer didn't envisage what was coming and how things would change. And it was probably too late by then to pull the plug. This is all I can think of because otherwise I couldn't understand someone building this in that location, knowing what we know now.

I kept thinking about the unusually large common areas that all have to be air-conditioned as well as the extensive landscaped grounds which all have to be regularly maintained and surely even if the rents are comparatively low, I would imagine the tenants are still made to contribute towards these additional maintenance costs.

There are still large areas that have never been occupied and there are also some areas that have been occupied before but have now been vacated , which makes me feel uneasy.

Everyone should go out and have a look at the place and while I was there I discovered there is now a free shuttle service from the Amora Hotel near Thappae Gate.

[slipperylobster]

Very relaxing, for a sunset dinner and some shopping at Rimpings. Only 8 Kilometers (15-20 minutes) from where I live.

[Sparkles]

I visited this place for the first time this morning and I have to say yes it is a superb environment to stroll around without the crowds. So from the consumer's point of view it's excellent. And today was no different, it seems to all the other occasions when posters here have commented on how quiet it is.

But what I worry about is the poor old developer/investor.

Being a foreign developer I would assume (and I would sincerely hope) that they carried out an in-depth feasibility study before starting this project and I would be very interested to read the findings, particularly who they considered would be their target audience that would actually spend money rather than use the place for entertainment. I can only imagine that any study was carried out prior to the 2008 financial crisis and that even the building was still in progress after the crisis began, so that the developer didn't envisage what was coming and how things would change. And it was probably too late by then to pull the plug. This is all I can think of because otherwise I couldn't understand someone building this in that location, knowing what we know now.

I kept thinking about the unusually large common areas that all have to be air-conditioned as well as the extensive landscaped grounds which all have to be regularly maintained and surely even if the rents are comparatively low, I would imagine the tenants are still made to contribute towards these additional maintenance costs.

There are still large areas that have never been occupied and there are also some areas that have been occupied before but have now been vacated , which makes me feel uneasy.

Everyone should go out and have a look at the place and while I was there I discovered there is now a free shuttle service from the Amora Hotel near Thappae Gate.

Interesting you feel sympathy for the investor/developer, why ? Poor location unless that part of the city suddenly goes through a population explosion. Poorly sign posted. I and many others have

driven around for ages trying to find it.The most basic requirement for any new business is telling people where you are and what you offer. As for the free shuttle service from the Amora Hotel ,a well

kept secret,and once you get there is there is there anything you can't see closer to the city,the answer is no.Its pleasant and architecturally appealing but as a business model a total failure. Unless you can

encourage financially, the Chinese tourist operators to put it on the itinerary it will stagnate. And how many tourists want to go to Rimping, the major tenant

The golden rule of successful business has always been position ,position, position. A few investors are going to do their shirt on this project.

PS...... Did we have a financial crisis in Thailand in 2008 ? I don't think so.

[midas]

I visited this place for the first time this morning and I have to say yes it is a superb environment to stroll around without the crowds. So from the consumer's point of view it's excellent. And today was no different, it seems to all the other occasions when posters here have commented on how quiet it is.

But what I worry about is the poor old developer/investor.

Being a foreign developer I would assume (and I would sincerely hope) that they carried out an in-depth feasibility study before starting this project and I would be very interested to read the findings, particularly who they considered would be their target audience that would actually spend money rather than use the place for entertainment. I can only imagine that any study was carried out prior to the 2008 financial crisis and that even the building was still in progress after the crisis began, so that the developer didn't envisage what was coming and how things would change. And it was probably too late by then to pull the plug. This is all I can think of because otherwise I couldn't understand someone building this in that location, knowing what we know now.

I kept thinking about the unusually large common areas that all have to be air-conditioned as well as the extensive landscaped grounds which all have to be regularly maintained and surely even if the rents are comparatively low, I would imagine the tenants are still made to contribute towards these additional maintenance costs.

There are still large areas that have never been occupied and there are also some areas that have been occupied before but have now been vacated , which makes me feel uneasy.

Everyone should go out and have a look at the place and while I was there I discovered there is now a free shuttle service from the Amora Hotel near Thappae Gate.

Interesting you feel sympathy for the investor/developer, why ? Poor location unless that part of the city suddenly goes through a population explosion. Poorly sign posted. I and many others have

driven around for ages trying to find it.The most basic requirement for any new business is telling people where you are and what you offer. As for the free shuttle service from the Amora Hotel ,a well

kept secret,and once you get there is there is there anything you can't see closer to the city,the answer is no.Its pleasant and architecturally appealing but as a business model a total failure. Unless you can

encourage financially, the Chinese tourist operators to put it on the itinerary it will stagnate. And how many tourists want to go to Rimping, the major tenant

The golden rule of successful business has always been position ,position, position. A few investors are going to do their shirt on this project.

PS...... Did we have a financial crisis in Thailand in 2008 ? I don't think so.

“Interesting you feel sympathy for the investor/developer, why ?”

Only because they are described on one website as being a “ Dutch retail developer that has created many successful shopping centers throughout Central Europe “ so I feel sorry that perhaps some of the assumptions in this instance they made were overly ambitious. But it seems very strange to me that an experienced retail shopping centre developer would do this because you usually learn very quickly what works and doesn't work when big money is involved and in this case they said it cost them 2.9 billion baht.

This is why I mentioned the feasibility study. I wonder who this was prepared by and whether they made some ambitious assumptions?

It's interesting that you refer to the Chinese because that was one of the reasons I wanted to go there to see who exactly is shopping there. I didn't see any Chinese.

When you talk about, position, position, position its a trade-off isn't it? I mean maybe the developer chose this location because the land was cheap (which presumably leads to cheaper rents ) compared to something more centrally located where the land costs wouldn't allow you to even consider this kind of low intensity development.

What I noticed is that I couldn't find any kind of directory board or map giving information as to which retailers were there and where they were located in the centre. When I asked at the information desk if they had any of this kind of information the employee said no because there were more tenants coming? So I do agree with your comments that it could do with perhaps more aggressive marketing and information but the details of the shuttle service are provided on their website

http://www.promenadachiangmai.com/en/news-events/Update%20Shuttle%20Bus%20schedule/30

[northernjohn]

I visited this place for the first time this morning and I have to say yes it is a superb environment to stroll around without the crowds. So from the consumer's point of view it's excellent. And today was no different, it seems to all the other occasions when posters here have commented on how quiet it is.

But what I worry about is the poor old developer/investor.

Being a foreign developer I would assume (and I would sincerely hope) that they carried out an in-depth feasibility study before starting this project and I would be very interested to read the findings, particularly who they considered would be their target audience that would actually spend money rather than use the place for entertainment. I can only imagine that any study was carried out prior to the 2008 financial crisis and that even the building was still in progress after the crisis began, so that the developer didn't envisage what was coming and how things would change. And it was probably too late by then to pull the plug. This is all I can think of because otherwise I couldn't understand someone building this in that location, knowing what we know now.

I kept thinking about the unusually large common areas that all have to be air-conditioned as well as the extensive landscaped grounds which all have to be regularly maintained and surely even if the rents are comparatively low, I would imagine the tenants are still made to contribute towards these additional maintenance costs.

There are still large areas that have never been occupied and there are also some areas that have been occupied before but have now been vacated , which makes me feel uneasy.

Everyone should go out and have a look at the place and while I was there I discovered there is now a free shuttle service from the Amora Hotel near Thappae Gate.

Interesting you feel sympathy for the investor/developer, why ? Poor location unless that part of the city suddenly goes through a population explosion. Poorly sign posted. I and many others have

driven around for ages trying to find it.The most basic requirement for any new business is telling people where you are and what you offer. As for the free shuttle service from the Amora Hotel ,a well

kept secret,and once you get there is there is there anything you can't see closer to the city,the answer is no.Its pleasant and architecturally appealing but as a business model a total failure. Unless you can

encourage financially, the Chinese tourist operators to put it on the itinerary it will stagnate. And how many tourists want to go to Rimping, the major tenant

The golden rule of successful business has always been position ,position, position. A few investors are going to do their shirt on this project.

PS...... Did we have a financial crisis in Thailand in 2008 ? I don't think so.

“Interesting you feel sympathy for the investor/developer, why ?”

Only because they are described on one website as being a “ Dutch retail developer that has created many successful shopping centers throughout Central Europe “ so I feel sorry that perhaps some of the assumptions in this instance they made were overly ambitious. But it seems very strange to me that an experienced retail shopping centre developer would do this because you usually learn very quickly what works and doesn't work when big money is involved and in this case they said it cost them 2.9 billion baht.

This is why I mentioned the feasibility study. I wonder who this was prepared by and whether they made some ambitious assumptions?

It's interesting that you refer to the Chinese because that was one of the reasons I wanted to go there to see who exactly is shopping there. I didn't see any Chinese.

When you talk about, position, position, position its a trade-off isn't it? I mean maybe the developer chose this location because the land was cheap (which presumably leads to cheaper rents ) compared to something more centrally located where the land costs wouldn't allow you to even consider this kind of low intensity development.

What I noticed is that I couldn't find any kind of directory board or map giving information as to which retailers were there and where they were located in the centre. When I asked at the information desk if they had any of this kind of information the employee said no because there were more tenants coming? So I do agree with your comments that it could do with perhaps more aggressive marketing and information but the details of the shuttle service are provided on their website

http://www.promenadachiangmai.com/en/news-events/Update%20Shuttle%20Bus%20schedule/30

If you go back in the history of it you will find a thread here where every one was excited about it. They figured it would almost kill the airport mall. It was going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. The developers did indeed run into some financial problems and there was a delay in opening it. In my opinion it should not have opened when it did. They really were not ready for it. I believe that they were considering the future in their decision to build it out there. Not sure if they figured on Central Festival to be opening and be so big.

One other thing that hurt them was there original plans were calling for a lot of high quality fashion stores. It was supposed to be an upscale mall. I do enjoy it but they defiantly need more shops in there.

[Ulysses G.]

I do enjoy it but they defiantly need more shops in there.

What they need is more coffee shops.

[Dante99]

Bring on more of those old style coffee shops.