Thai reforms: Pushing for third-gender equality

[webfact]

REFORMS
Pushing for third-gender equality
Nitipol Kiravanich
The Nation


Supatra

Female NRC members vow to promote the rights of alternative sexualities

BANGKOK: -- Female members of the National Reform Council (NRC) have vowed to push for the rights of alternative sexualities and, if in a position to do so, will propose the inclusion of "third-gender" equality in the new constitution.

NRC members and women's activists Ticha Na Nakorn and Supatra Nakapiew are concerned for the gender inequality of alternative-sexuality citizens, citing the need for society to take the issue seriously.

"Previous constitutions have neither mentioned the third gender nor stated its role in society clearly. If it is possible to put their rights in the constitution, I will support it," said Supatra, who is also head of the Thai NGO Coalition on Aids.

She said she would propose the matter of strengthening the status of alternative sexualities to the Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC) and push for equality for third-gender people in the new charter.

Ticha said that if she had the chance to be a CDC member, she would propose that the committee empower third-gender status in order to resolve inequality issues.

Thai people should accept the existence of people with alternative sexualities, with them being recognised in society, she said.

In the drawing up of the now-defunct 1997 constitution, a drafter had said people living with Aids should be treated on an equal basis to other groups of people, Ticha said.

"We should not wait any longer to realise that this [non-recognition] is a problem in society, and the new constitution that will come out shortly should also give status to the third gender," she stressed.

Over the past ten years, alternative sexualities were not acceptable in society and most of them were treated discriminately.

For instance, students couldn't wear the uniform of the gender they chose to be. Also teachers who are of the third gender were seen as inappropriate amid fears that they would influence their students to become like them.

But nowadays, Thai society is more open. In universities, alternative sexualities can make a request to the rector asking to wear the uniform of the gender they choose.

Treungjai Buranasompop, a political affairs member of the NRC, said she had personally been associating with this group of people, and that firstly, their families had to accept what they were, because if they were unable to do so, it could also lead to inequality in society.

Supatra, who is an environmental affairs member of the NRC, said she would also like to see more women in the political arena, children given greater opportunities to study, and the serious issue of domestic violence resolved.

"The CDC should push forward the strengthening of people's equality to be written in the constitution," she said.

She lamented that violence against children and women was still at large, along with discrimination against the poor in many fields.

Ticha added that women also had to fight for their rights, and the NRC should be the voice for expressing people's opinions.

"Women have been suppressed in many ways, and their rights to express their ideas have been limited. Everyone should take this problem seriously," she said.

As an education member of the NRC, she also urged that the education system should be reformed in a way that stressed people's integrity and perspective.

"The education system in Thailand should accustom itself to changes in society, and teachers should not limit children's capacity but rather expand and support their skill sets," she said.

Less than 40 of the NRC's 250 members - just 16 per cent - are women, and some observers fear that any push for gender equality for women might not be supported by the male majority on the council.

Rossana Tositrakul, an energy reform member of the NRC, suggested quotas for female members should reach 30 per cent in order to recognise women's status and their role in politics, and said she would like to see support for women becoming presidents or vice presidents of councils or assemblies, as well.

Treungjai said she had been given a great opportunity in being chosen as an NRC member, which proved that in the council there is no gender inequality and that today in society a man and a woman can be treated equally. She added that the NRC was a combination of individuals with no official affiliation and people from government agencies, with men largely making up the latter.

For example, there are more men than women in politics, including those from the military and police. This means there are naturally more male members on the council, and the disparity is not because females are being discriminated against, she reasoned.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Pushing-for-third-gender-equality-30245816.html


-- The Nation 2014-10-20

[Crazy chef 1]

OMG-Thailand is really far behind.

but I think they now realize it and doing the right steps to catching up.

[clockman]

Frightening!

[Wilsonandson]

What is 3rd gender? Have scientists developed a half man half beast?

[NongKhaiKid]

Does this mean that women are now regarded as having equal status with men ?

[Lannig]

Not sure Thailand is that far behind actually. It's a mix of "behind" and "ahead", really. Homosexuality cannot be lived as openly as in some of the western societies but transsexuals are rather well accepted in the society IMO.

Just went to see that movie about these gangs of students in BKK (can't recall its name) and I was amazed to be shown a gay relationship between two of these testosterone-filled youngsters develop quite explicitly and without the usual mockery found in most Thai movies when such a story arises. It went quite far as to what was shown on the screen. Can't recall having seen anything like this in a Thai movie.

Wouldn't recommend the movie, though. It's extremely violent, the scenario fits on a single Post-it and its extremely predictable ending seems like it's been written by the military (can't elaborate without spoiling).

[ParadiseLost]

Thai people should accept the existence of people with alternative sexualities, with them being recognised in society, she said.

In the drawing up of the now-defunct 1997 constitution, a drafter had said people living with Aids should be treated on an equal basis to other groups of people, Ticha said.

"We should not wait any longer to realise that this [non-recognition] is a problem in society, and the new constitution that will come out shortly should also give status to the third gender," she stressed.

Over the past ten years, alternative sexualities were not acceptable in society and most of them were treated discriminately.

For instance, students couldn't wear the uniform of the gender they chose to be. Also teachers who are of the third gender were seen as inappropriate amid fears that they would influence their students to become like them.

Geez, Louise - so when a child is born are you going to tick "Pending" in the sex box?

Why not do away with gender completely - would that not make the entire problem moot?

And one more thing, what does it take to be 'transgender'? Surgery? Or a bloke can put on a frock and change his entire identity... What if he only does this on weekends - does he get two identities?

I think they need to learn about girls being made of sugar & spice and all things nice, while boys are made of snips & snails and puppy dogs tails - there is now a need for a third verse: Nam-pla & Spice, dog meat and rice?

Children are confused enough, without this bizarre pantomime. Show more sexuality on TV and less mindless violence and maybe they will grow up with a healthy outlook on life?

[PatOngo]

Pick pocketing is about to become a restricted activity......limted to ladyboys only......after all, they need to make a living also.

[keithkarmann]

There are only two sexes, Male and Female. Yes there are males who want to be females and females who want to be males but they still remain male or female. Possibly they can be wrongly identified at birth but born male you remain male and born female you are still female and no alterations can change that. That's my opinion anyway.

[timmyp]

There's something I don't get about "3rd gender." Don't most transgender people believe that they are the opposite gender of the body they are trapped in? For example, a man who feels he is really a woman, born into the wrong body. I don't think such people believe they are a 3rd gender, they believe they are one of the two genders.

I'm not questioning the fluidity of gender, or saying that you gotta be a boy or a girl, but that most transgendered folks don't want to be a 3rd gender, they want to be accepted as male or female.

[monkey4u]

What is 3rd gender? Have scientists developed a half man half beast?

Its called a Katoey

If it has tits and a penis what else is it ( sick )

[kamahele]

Thai people should accept the existence of people with alternative sexualities, with them being recognised in society, she said.

In the drawing up of the now-defunct 1997 constitution, a drafter had said people living with Aids should be treated on an equal basis to other groups of people, Ticha said.

"We should not wait any longer to realise that this [non-recognition] is a problem in society, and the new constitution that will come out shortly should also give status to the third gender," she stressed.

Over the past ten years, alternative sexualities were not acceptable in society and most of them were treated discriminately.

For instance, students couldn't wear the uniform of the gender they chose to be. Also teachers who are of the third gender were seen as inappropriate amid fears that they would influence their students to become like them.

Geez, Louise - so when a child is born are you going to tick "Pending" in the sex box?

Why not do away with gender completely - would that not make the entire problem moot?

And one more thing, what does it take to be 'transgender'? Surgery? Or a bloke can put on a frock and change his entire identity... What if he only does this on weekends - does he get two identities?

I think they need to learn about girls being made of sugar & spice and all things nice, while boys are made of snips & snails and puppy dogs tails - there is now a need for a third verse: Nam-pla & Spice, dog meat and rice?

Children are confused enough, without this bizarre pantomime. Show more sexuality on TV and less mindless violence and maybe they will grow up with a healthy outlook on life?

There is a difference between a man who locks to wear a dress on the weekends and someone who is transgender. The children in Thailand are not confused about their sexual identity unlike in western countries. "Lady Boys" as they are called here are nurtured from childhood to be who they are, even being allowed to dress in women's clothing at sporting events to participate as cheerleaders. It's not perfect but it would be compassionate of the government to legally recognize those who may not fit the "gender norms" of our parents to be able to be recognized for what they are / want to be. I'd love for my legal gay marriage to be recognized in Thailand. Tired of filling out all of those forms saying I'm single in Thailand and saying I'm married on my American forms.

[konying]

There are only two sexes, Male and Female. Yes there are males who want to be females and females who want to be males but they still remain male or female. Possibly they can be wrongly identified at birth but born male you remain male and born female you are still female and no alterations can change that. That's my opinion anyway.

It's not just your opinion , it's fact.

Ladyboy lovers no doubt will argue the point, as they need some excuse to justify their confusion.

Gay man are not interested in ladyboys, straight men are, but then how straight are they to be sleeping with a man while looking at a woman

[Loles]

Noway.

There are enough "special" induviduals here.

[Orac]

There's something I don't get about "3rd gender." Don't most transgender people believe that they are the opposite gender of the body they are trapped in? For example, a man who feels he is really a woman, born into the wrong body. I don't think such people believe they are a 3rd gender, they believe they are one of the two genders.

I'm not questioning the fluidity of gender, or saying that you gotta be a boy or a girl, but that most transgendered folks don't want to be a 3rd gender, they want to be accepted as male or female.

Based on that the article makes little sense as it firstly argues that transgenders need more rights then goes on to say that women have less rights than men.

Apart from a fairly basic conformation of sexual discrimination rules i am not sure how much further they can go with legislation since the issue is more of a societal recognition issue than a legal one. The very act of trying to write laws that specifically cover transgenders is both counterproductive to an equality argument not to mention extremely difficult as they would struggle to get over the first hurdle, as an earlier poster pointed out, by having to legal define what transgender is in the first place.

[tx22cb]

Well done.

Glad to see that the NRC are going to acknowledge and reward Dr Seri (et al) for his sterling work earlier this year, when (inter alia) he "led a group of anti-government protesters, mostly women and transvestites, many of them members of the Miss Tiffany’s dance troupe, to stage a protest outside Yingluck's residence"

[ParadiseLost]

Thai people should accept the existence of people with alternative sexualities, with them being recognised in society, she said.

In the drawing up of the now-defunct 1997 constitution, a drafter had said people living with Aids should be treated on an equal basis to other groups of people, Ticha said.

"We should not wait any longer to realise that this [non-recognition] is a problem in society, and the new constitution that will come out shortly should also give status to the third gender," she stressed.

Over the past ten years, alternative sexualities were not acceptable in society and most of them were treated discriminately.

For instance, students couldn't wear the uniform of the gender they chose to be. Also teachers who are of the third gender were seen as inappropriate amid fears that they would influence their students to become like them.

Geez, Louise - so when a child is born are you going to tick "Pending" in the sex box?

Why not do away with gender completely - would that not make the entire problem moot?

And one more thing, what does it take to be 'transgender'? Surgery? Or a bloke can put on a frock and change his entire identity... What if he only does this on weekends - does he get two identities?

I think they need to learn about girls being made of sugar & spice and all things nice, while boys are made of snips & snails and puppy dogs tails - there is now a need for a third verse: Nam-pla & Spice, dog meat and rice?

Children are confused enough, without this bizarre pantomime. Show more sexuality on TV and less mindless violence and maybe they will grow up with a healthy outlook on life?

There is a difference between a man who locks to wear a dress on the weekends and someone who is transgender. The children in Thailand are not confused about their sexual identity unlike in western countries. "Lady Boys" as they are called here are nurtured from childhood to be who they are, even being allowed to dress in women's clothing at sporting events to participate as cheerleaders. It's not perfect but it would be compassionate of the government to legally recognize those who may not fit the "gender norms" of our parents to be able to be recognized for what they are / want to be. I'd love for my legal gay marriage to be recognized in Thailand. Tired of filling out all of those forms saying I'm single in Thailand and saying I'm married on my American forms.

I assure you I have no anti-gay feelings, in fact I am very pro gay marriage and anti discrimination, of any kind.

However, in my opinion most of the ladyboys here are not 'struggling' with their sexuality, rather they seem to be struggling with fitting into a very chauvinistic society, where image (face) is everything.

It seems easier for a boy to choose to dress as a girl to avoid bullying, rather than take a beating from one of his peers as the loss of face would be greater.

Most (if not all) of the ladyboys I have met appear to be unstable and have emotional and/or psychological problems. The Samui 'katoeys' were banned from FMP a few years ago because of their criminal activities - there were several viscous attacks on foreign guys.

i feel very sorry for the genuinely afflicted, their terrible plight is turned into a sideshow by attention seeking sociopaths.

[amse]

Why is it so difficult to respect everyone as a human being.

[godden]

What is 3rd gender? Have scientists developed a half man half beast?

have you never heard of buffalo bill.

[Neeranam]

i feel very sorry for the genuinely afflicted, their terrible plight is turned into a sideshow by attention seeking sociopaths.

Agreed.

And many if not most of them have some kinda weird obsession with foreigners. Or is it many foreigners have some kinda weird obsession with ladyboys that make them perceive us all as perverted sexpats?

Edited October 20, 2014 by Neeranam

[ParadiseLost]

The foreigner = walking ATM syndrome is the only "normal" Thai trait they display...

Edited October 20, 2014 by ParadiseLost

[Thai at Heart]

Equality is expressly written to the constitution.

3rd gender doesn't need special protectiom

[ParadiseLost]

Look and learn Thailand, this and similar problems were solved a long time ago, by some very wise men (and women):

Monty Python's Life of Brian (1:51)

[seajae]

actually guys in Australia one state has recognised a non gender, ie, neither male or female, Norrie I think the "shims" name is and that person claims they are neither male or female but both and the courts have agreed so its legal. I presume dna was used to prove the technical points, dont know if it will catch on but it looks like we now have male and female plus a combined gender. The idea of quotas though is bullsh*t, thuis always needs to be purely on someones ability and not their gender otherwise we end up with idiots, not that we dont now but to make it law is wrong.

[timewilltell]

Equality is expressly written to the constitution.

3rd gender doesn't need special protectiom

Except there is no constitution and the equality clauses in it were not followed by many laws. For instance a Thai Man can have a foreign wife who can get permanent residence and citizenship very easily and cheaply. For a Thai female married to a Foreign man the process is much more tedious, expensive and with far more requirements. Another example - Thai females married to foreigners have to sign documents on buying a house or land that the money is hers - there are no such requirements on Thai males married to foreign females.

I agree with you though that an all encompassing 'no discrimination of any sort on anyone' would avoid the need to segregate out classes of people - which is mildly discriminatory in itself.

When they are through with that they can make some stringent anti-corruption clauses as well with laws and procedures to follow it up. And then a clause that any child in the Kingdom regardless of whether Thai, foreign or stateless should be entitled to free education of a reasonable standard.

[Thai at Heart]

Equality is expressly written to the constitution.

3rd gender doesn't need special protectiom

Except there is no constitution and the equality clauses in it were not followed by many laws. For instance a Thai Man can have a foreign wife who can get permanent residence and citizenship very easily and cheaply. For a Thai female married to a Foreign man the process is much more tedious, expensive and with far more requirements. Another example - Thai females married to foreigners have to sign documents on buying a house or land that the money is hers - there are no such requirements on Thai males married to foreign females.

I agree with you though that an all encompassing 'no discrimination of any sort on anyone' would avoid the need to segregate out classes of people - which is mildly discriminatory in itself.

When they are through with that they can make some stringent anti-corruption clauses as well with laws and procedures to follow it up. And then a clause that any child in the Kingdom regardless of whether Thai, foreign or stateless should be entitled to free education of a reasonable standard.

None of which refers to the third gender. The so called third gender needs no more special treatment.

If its unconstitutional, some one should have brought a case to change the law. And yes, Thailand is discriminatory, but the rules are/were on the books already to stop it

[arrowsdawdle]

What is 3rd gender? Have scientists developed a half man half beast?

There is no third gender. Until somebody comes up with chromosome transplants that is how it will remain. Anything else is smoke and mirrors to sugarcoat it, fraud to tell it like it is.

[Rumblecat]

There are only two sexes, Male and Female. Yes there are males who want to be females and females who want to be males but they still remain male or female. Possibly they can be wrongly identified at birth but born male you remain male and born female you are still female and no alterations can change that. That's my opinion anyway.

It's not just your opinion , it's fact.

Ladyboy lovers no doubt will argue the point, as they need some excuse to justify their confusion.

Gay man are not interested in ladyboys, straight men are, but then how straight are they to be sleeping with a man while looking at a woman

Yeah, it's almost like sexuality and sexual identity doesn't always conform to rigid and strict categories...

[pkrv]

There are only two sexes, Male and Female. Yes there are males who want to be females and females who want to be males but they still remain male or female. Possibly they can be wrongly identified at birth but born male you remain male and born female you are still female and no alterations can change that. That's my opinion anyway.

hermaphrodite and all in between.

[chooka]

There are only two sex in the world, male and female. Yes you have your bisexuality and homosexual people but they are not a sex. You can't just wave a wand and say poof now we have a 3rd sex or a 4th or 5th sex. Nature is the only one who can do that.