New history textbooks to teach 'correct democracy'

[metisdead]

A post containing Thai language has been removed. This is the English language side of the forum.

A post containing derogatory generalizations toward Thais has been removed as well.

The particular post regarding use of Thai language, was solely to show the quote mentioned was accurately interpreted. Too bad the Moderator's slash-n-dash did not understand that,...nor the timely validity of the post.

English is the only acceptable language anywhere on ThaiVisa including Classifieds, except within the Thai language forum, where of course using Thai is allowed.

[ginjag]

You could not make it up.

An illegally mounted coup that installs a dictator and then rewrites history books with an explanation of democracy.

FUBAR

Another dictator running the country from Dubai, using his sister as a pawn. Red Shin style. Your style democracy, YES because they were voted in so it must mean TRUE democracy.

The top man here blessed the intervention, cannot be that wrong.

Can't defend what the junta is doing so you're attacking Thaksin again, right ginjag?

Before the intervention who were in control ??? have to attack the system prior, they were given the boot again, note it's not the first time.

As far as the PM now is concerned, I do not have a gripe---I and all my Thai friends have not been affected by the intervention, majority seem to be getting along nicely. Your the people that are stirring the dung, any excuse to do it.

Just returned from the main Udon hospital, 3 fillings in the dental section---FREE for everyone. Thai people are not complaining. only the wrong doers--and the haters of the army have problems. My freedom of speech is no way challenged, nor any of my Thai friends.

[LipeLarry]

...and just think, we are where we are today because too many people starting changing the photographs over the fireplace.

Any discussion of the Monarchy or members of the royal family in a political context will result in a ban.

This includes vague comments that could be construed as referring to the Monarchy.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/769792-notice-to-members-posting-in-thailand-news/

.

Edited October 21, 2014 by LipeLarry

[majhiggins]

On the bright side, no matter what the books are being altered to say, it's still just a subject that will be taught in the Thai schools and any farang English teacher who has ever had an honest talk with a Thai teacher around exam time would know that the kids' grades in Thai history, and almost all other subjects, are just as poor as their English grades. The average Thai student is no more likely to learn or retain this creative history than they are English! Highest GDP % spent on education but lowest aptitude scores. Do you know any Thais who can tell you much at all about history or government right now?

[ginjag]

You could not make it up.

An illegally mounted coup that installs a dictator and then rewrites history books with an explanation of democracy.

FUBAR

Another dictator running the country from Dubai, using his sister as a pawn. Red Shin style. Your style democracy, YES because they were voted in so it must mean TRUE democracy.

The top man here blessed the intervention, cannot be that wrong.

Same old record playing over and over again!!

Ginjag time to re-invent yourself!! Surprise us!!

Talk about me---take a look at your and your clans posts, you then can confirm the records stuck.-------hate army campaign

[Fat Haggis]

So which democracy in the 30 years you've been here Ginjag worked best, and why?

Why didn't it stay in power if it was so good?

[heybruce]

You could not make it up.

An illegally mounted coup that installs a dictator and then rewrites history books with an explanation of democracy.

FUBAR

Another dictator running the country from Dubai, using his sister as a pawn. Red Shin style. Your style democracy, YES because they were voted in so it must mean TRUE democracy.

The top man here blessed the intervention, cannot be that wrong.

Can't defend what the junta is doing so you're attacking Thaksin again, right ginjag?

Before the intervention who were in control ??? have to attack the system prior, they were given the boot again, note it's not the first time.

As far as the PM now is concerned, I do not have a gripe---I and all my Thai friends have not been affected by the intervention, majority seem to be getting along nicely. Your the people that are stirring the dung, any excuse to do it.

Just returned from the main Udon hospital, 3 fillings in the dental section---FREE for everyone. Thai people are not complaining. only the wrong doers--and the haters of the army have problems. My freedom of speech is no way challenged, nor any of my Thai friends.

First, let's address the Orwellian language use: Coup, coup, coup, not an intervention, a coup! Get used to reality ginjag.

My comment stands, you have not defended the junta, presumably because you can't. Unless you can show that the dental care you described was unavailable before the coup.

[ginjag]

So which democracy in the 30 years you've been here Ginjag worked best, and why?

Why didn't it stay in power if it was so good?

They have never had one-----they do not know what one is----how can they know when the Shins have been present half the time.

[ginjag]

Before the intervention who were in control ??? have to attack the system prior, they were given the boot again, note it's not the first time.

As far as the PM now is concerned, I do not have a gripe---I and all my Thai friends have not been affected by the intervention, majority seem to be getting along nicely. Your the people that are stirring the dung, any excuse to do it.

Just returned from the main Udon hospital, 3 fillings in the dental section---FREE for everyone. Thai people are not complaining. only the wrong doers--and the haters of the army have problems. My freedom of speech is no way challenged, nor any of my Thai friends.

First, let's address the Orwellian language use: Coup, coup, coup, not an intervention, a coup! Get used to reality ginjag.

My comment stands, you have not defended the junta, presumably because you can't. Unless you can show that the dental care you described was unavailable before the coup.

I have never had free dental care before the coup.

Intervention to save anarchy with the reds in Issan mobilizing--FACT. You will never want to believe that lives were saved by the intervention.

Until I find the PM is doing a disservice to Thailand I will back him. sorry---shout all you want.

[chotthee]

farang just don't understand the value of Thai democracy under junta.

It is democracy of the purest form.

[maxme]

farang just don't understand the value of Thai democracy under junta.

It is democracy of the purest form.

Good one... Do you have one about autocracy as well?

[dominique355]

Insular. Xenaphobic. Racist. Elitist. Not only history, but geography are not taught at all well over here. Kids don't know where anywhere outside SE Asia is. They don't know about WW II or the Vietnam war, or genocide in Cambodia. Seriously sad state of affairs. One of the many reasons i'm thinking of going back to the UK after 11 wonderful years here, is for my 9 year old son. I've got to the point i want him growing up as an English boy with a Thai mother, rather than a Thai boy with a Felang dad.

Why not send your son in a British school with a British curriculum? There are some good ones here.

[lostinisaan]

So which democracy in the 30 years you've been here Ginjag worked best, and why?

Why didn't it stay in power if it was so good?

They have never had one-----they do not know what one is----how can they know when the Shins have been present half the time.

They do have a democrazy.....

[swissie]

A while ago, I wrote this here:

"One has to see it from a Thai perspective:

Thailand is a premier league player in fields like science, the arts, sports, innovation, productivity, etc. Blessed with a stable political environment, a legal-system above and beyond any doubt and an educational-system that is the envy of the world. All this is well supported by the achievements of the 649 Thai Nobel Price winners.

The cure for the worlds ailments is therefore "Thainess".

Considering all this, Thailand can comfortably await the day when Thai will replace English as the worlds universal second language.

Cheers."

PS: So, of course, the Thais have reason to believe, that "Thai-Democracy" must automatically be far superior to any other.

Cheers again.

[ggt]

"Correct Democracy?"

Where does such an illusive ideal exist...certainly not in the western world...where human rights have been eroded to the point they have no protection from officials enter their homes and vehicles at will to search and seize their belongings under threat of bodily harm...

Democratically elected officials are more concerned about padding their bank accounts and positioning themselves for the next election than doing the best job they can for the general population of their country...

If Thailand can explain what is a "correct democracy"...they will have to create a new model...they can not just copy from current Western democracies...

[drand11]

I truly wonder.. do I live in a Democracy or a Military State?

Thai's have such a tainted concept of democracy, it explains why generation after generations of Thai's have developed an incorrect concept of Democracy.

I know democracy can vary from country to country.. but truly, Coup and "Reform for Power Balance" is not a form of Democracy.

[Thanet]

I think the democracy that the Greeks had did not allow women to vote. Also, Ancient Greece had a whole load of slaves, and they weren't allowed to vote as well. So Greece was a place that most of the adults in society did not have the right to vote.

If everybody in Ancient Greece had the right to vote, what would have happened ?

Actually, teaching patriotism to children. Well, this ia actually important. Any nation is surely built on patriotism and pride for the nation, on nationalism. Without this, well, what is the point of being a nation ? You might as well not be a nation.

As you correctly allude, Ancient Greece was not a democracy as we would understand. It was, by its own definition, a timocracy, which is s system of government where people of material wealth and certain social classes only could vote.

Plato's 'The Republic', written at that time, is considered to be an authority on this matter, then as well as with political scientists and psychologists nowadays. It deals with the degeneration of the nation State from aristocracy, to timocracy, to oligarchy, to democracy, and finally to tyranny. It frames this degeneration within a superb definition of justice, as well as drawing parallels to this degeneration within the human mind, the latter being a mini nation State . It's a very compelling and interesting read - just as pertinent to political science, and the way people relate to one another, now as it was then.

Taking this degeneration of the nation State as an example of Thailand's recent regression, where we see a sudden slide from an oligarchy (under Thaksin) to what more resembles a tyranny (under Prayuth).

In an age when information is so easy to get hold of, returning to timocracy (as the army clearly wants to do) would mean nothing less than winding back the clock, and unlearning all that the people have learnt. The army fancies that it can do this -- the 'reforms' where only 'good people' have political rights have many parallels with the definition of timocracy in Ancient Greece. Thailand had such a system of government for many years, which brought with it stability at that time.

What the army fails to realise is that Thai people are simply too sophisticated now for a timocracy to work any more. Having given people a taste of freedom, they bitterly resent having that freedom taken away. Had the army not interfered, this very freedom and creativity would have defeated the oligarchs and led to the establishment of a democracy, via the demand for class equality.

With a return to timocracy impractical, tyranny is the only other choice of government, as far as the army is concerned. That's a shame, because as Plato rightly said, tyranny is the most degraded system of government. It robs people of hope and it stifles creativity and free thought.

I wonder what these re-written history books will contain?

Edited October 21, 2014 by Thanet

[eliotness]

I seem to recall another regime doing a similar thing closely followed by burning all unpatriotic books.

And then we all know what happened. A very slippery slope.

[kblaze]

I have never had free dental care before the coup.

Intervention to save anarchy with the reds in Issan mobilizing--FACT. You will never want to believe that lives were saved by the intervention.

Until I find the PM is doing a disservice to Thailand I will back him. sorry---shout all you want.

Well if ginjag is getting free dental care....

[uptheos]

How will they write in a textbook, that in a democracy the military is always answerable to the government?

Edited October 21, 2014 by uptheos

[tbthailand]

Nothing better than a non elected gov. To tell you what democracy is.

it is indeed sad to say that is the truth. Can you imagine what the PTP version would be. Remember they had their military arm set up schools on Democracy and ship the graduates off to Bangkok in 2010 to promote a coup.

Best to get a non biased view.

This is just further proof that the government is trying to reunify the people.

in 2010 ... if your word 'coup' means 'elections' then you remember correctly.

If not, well, a book on memory exercises might help... or it might not.

[thedivezone]

Utter ludicrous to think that the citizens are so naive to believe what the junta text book content. We don't live in the dark ages where the only reading material is the text book and the radio. The more the junta try to brainwash and impose their ideology, we will see more people start to lose faith in the government. We see more media considered as pro establishment warning things can go awry for this government if they take a bias approach to reform, stifle freedom of expression and force feed their brand of ideology. The backlash will come from the next election.

What election ?

[tonbridgebrit]

I think the democracy that the Greeks had did not allow women to vote. Also, Ancient Greece had a whole load of slaves, and they weren't allowed to vote as well. So Greece was a place that most of the adults in society did not have the right to vote.

If everybody in Ancient Greece had the right to vote, what would have happened ?

Actually, teaching patriotism to children. Well, this ia actually important. Any nation is surely built on patriotism and pride for the nation, on nationalism. Without this, well, what is the point of being a nation ? You might as well not be a nation.

As you correctly allude, Ancient Greece was not a democracy as we would understand. It was, by its own definition, a timocracy, which is s system of government where people of material wealth and certain social classes only could vote.

Plato's 'The Republic', written at that time, is considered to be an authority on this matter, then as well as with political scientists and psychologists nowadays. It deals with the degeneration of the nation State from aristocracy, to timocracy, to oligarchy, to democracy, and finally to tyranny. It frames this degeneration within a superb definition of justice, as well as drawing parallels to this degeneration within the human mind, the latter being a mini nation State . It's a very compelling and interesting read - just as pertinent to political science, and the way people relate to one another, now as it was then.

Taking this degeneration of the nation State as an example of Thailand's recent regression, where we see a sudden slide from an oligarchy (under Thaksin) to what more resembles a tyranny (under Prayuth).

In an age when information is so easy to get hold of, returning to timocracy (as the army clearly wants to do) would mean nothing less than winding back the clock The army fancies that it can do this -- the 'reforms' where only 'good people' have political rights have many parallels with the definition of timocracy in Ancient Greece. Thailand had such a system of government for many years, which brought with it stability at that time.

What the army fails to realise is that Thai people are simply too sophisticated now for a timocracy to work any more. Having given people a taste of freedom, they bitterly resent having that freedom taken away. Had the army not interfered, this very freedom and creativity would have defeated the oligarchs and led to the establishment of a democracy, via the demand for class equality.

With a return to timocracy impractical, tyranny is the only other choice of government, as far as the army is concerned. That's a shame, because as Plato rightly said, tyranny is the most degraded system of government. It robs people of hope and it stifles creativity and free thought.

I wonder what these re-written history books will contain?

I might or might not agree with you. But what you've wrote is certainly worth reading and talking about !

[tbthailand]

Another dictator running the country from Dubai, using his sister as a pawn. Red Shin style. Your style democracy, YES because they were voted in so it must mean TRUE democracy.

The top man here blessed the intervention, cannot be that wrong.

Can't defend what the junta is doing so you're attacking Thaksin again, right ginjag?

Before the intervention who were in control ??? have to attack the system prior, they were given the boot again, note it's not the first time.

As far as the PM now is concerned, I do not have a gripe---I and all my Thai friends have not been affected by the intervention, majority seem to be getting along nicely. Your the people that are stirring the dung, any excuse to do it.

Just returned from the main Udon hospital, 3 fillings in the dental section---FREE for everyone. Thai people are not complaining. only the wrong doers--and the haters of the army have problems. My freedom of speech is no way challenged, nor any of my Thai friends.

First, let's address the Orwellian language use: Coup, coup, coup, not an intervention, a coup! Get used to reality ginjag.

My comment stands, you have not defended the junta, presumably because you can't. Unless you can show that the dental care you described was unavailable before the coup.

Hey, Bruce, our new 'Dear Leader' doesn't like us to call it a coup. So 'intervention' is OK. 'NCPO' is spot on. And of course he is a real 'PM' too.

The Thai people are now 'happy' and we are enjoying 'reconciliation' and making 'reforms'.

Saying anything else can get you an 'invitation' to special 'retreat' and be 'entertained' by our friends in khakis. Normally it is only one week, but you can 'volunteer' for an extended stay.

I can't wait to see the new history books.

BTW, who is Orwell?

[RobthaiIre]

I studied history at a top western university

I wonder who is going to answer these kids questions in 10 or 20 years when they realize they have been conned!!!!.

The people getting conned are those that take this Khao Sod horse manure distortion at face value.

In your studies of history, did it include the value placed on accurate reporting?

Absolutely, however having one side of the argument taught is hardly a case for accurate reporting. Accurate reporting of one sides view or opinions maybe.

[ginjag]

Before the intervention who were in control ??? have to attack the system prior, they were given the boot again, note it's not the first time.

As far as the PM now is concerned, I do not have a gripe---I and all my Thai friends have not been affected by the intervention, majority seem to be getting along nicely. Your the people that are stirring the dung, any excuse to do it.

Just returned from the main Udon hospital, 3 fillings in the dental section---FREE for everyone. Thai people are not complaining. only the wrong doers--and the haters of the army have problems. My freedom of speech is no way challenged, nor any of my Thai friends.

First, let's address the Orwellian language use: Coup, coup, coup, not an intervention, a coup! Get used to reality ginjag.

My comment stands, you have not defended the junta, presumably because you can't. Unless you can show that the dental care you described was unavailable before the coup.

Hey, Bruce, our new 'Dear Leader' doesn't like us to call it a coup. So 'intervention' is OK. 'NCPO' is spot on. And of course he is a real 'PM' too.

The Thai people are now 'happy' and we are enjoying 'reconciliation' and making 'reforms'.

Saying anything else can get you an 'invitation' to special 'retreat' and be 'entertained' by our friends in khakis. Normally it is only one week, but you can 'volunteer' for an extended stay.

I can't wait to see the new history books.

BTW, who is Orwell?

Intervention---I love it. Why, it gets all the apologists screaming mad. It is that drastic according to them all Thai people are being dragged off the streets for speaking, tortured for loving the Shins, and now are to be taught the 53rd version of democracy in schools. 5555555555555.

It's pigged them off because today free dental treatment was given here in UDON Thani. Farrangs included. when in the last 3 years have Thais been given that and farrangs.

[LipeLarry]

I studied history at a top western university

I wonder who is going to answer these kids questions in 10 or 20 years when they realize they have been conned!!!!.

The people getting conned are those that take this Khao Sod horse manure distortion at face value.

In your studies of history, did it include the value placed on accurate reporting?

Absolutely, however having one side of the argument taught is hardly a case for accurate reporting. Accurate reporting of one sides view or opinions maybe.

You missed my point.

It was aimed at the one-sided, inaccurate, hyperbolic, nonsense that Khao Sod formulated into a news story of highly dubious validity due to the discredited Khao Sod and its soiled reputation of incorrect, jandiced BS.

Disappointing to see posters take it at face value and reply to it as if was from a worthwhile source.

.

[tubby johnson]

"Correct democracy" is "Do as we say. Generals know best."

[RobthaiIre]

I studied history at a top western university

I wonder who is going to answer these kids questions in 10 or 20 years when they realize they have been conned!!!!.

The people getting conned are those that take this Khao Sod horse manure distortion at face value.

In your studies of history, did it include the value placed on accurate reporting?

Absolutely, however having one side of the argument taught is hardly a case for accurate reporting. Accurate reporting of one sides view or opinions maybe.

You missed my point.

It was aimed at the one-sided, inaccurate, hyperbolic, nonsense that Khao Sod formulated into a news story of highly dubious validity due to the discredited Khao Sod and its soiled reputation of incorrect, jandiced BS.

Disappointing to see posters take it at face value and reply to it as if was from a worthwhile source.

.

you seem to be missing my point. The fact that it has been reported on a couple of occasions must mean there is some truth in it however distorted by Khao Sod. Gagging to the media is only a propaganda tool to try to get the people to believe that the coup was good and that the junta have the necessary skills to show the people the correct path. I would personally have my doubts!!!

If the people cannot make up there own mind about what is right and wrong then there is very little hope. Some people will think that coup was right which is fair enough as is the people who think was wrong. But having the coup makers preaching at every opportunity doesn't lead to a balanced argument.

I personally thought at the time that the coup became a necessary evil to end the stalemate, now I am sot so sure....

Only history will judge whether it was the correct course of action to take..... All great dictators rewrite the country's history books for there own propaganda

[sabaidimai]

I know for a fact that they teach nil history at all except a little Thai in schools here so anyone surprised they are completely unaware what democracy is all about?