Thai Masters Degrees.. are they worth anything? Planning a move to LOS

[orpheus454]

Okay. Fair enough. But I'm sure any western university will gladly take anyone's money provided they meet all the requirements for entrance. I think what's really important here is how many people with Master's degrees obtained in Thailand use said degree to get a job in the west. If the OP plans on working in the west, he/she would be better off getting his degree there. And if he/she plans on working in TH, and has the option to get his/her degree in the west, he'd be better off doing that too.

remind me not to ever recommend you for a job in HR

If it's not a better degree, then why would any Thai bother to spend their hard earned money studying abroad?

As is usual, this question reveals much more about the person asking, than any answer could about the subject matter.

[orpheus454]

The OP titles contains a good question, and I have a related one:

Are pieces of string in Thailand longer than in other countries?

[cardinalblue]

AY,

Just b/c someone knows of Thais who attend Grad school in the West doesn't make it equal. The majority of Thais goes to non-accredited universities or private ones which cost a fortune...

They are the very bottom in Eng language entry exams for asian countries - just not good competitive students. And it doesn't help that only one Thai university is ranked in the world top 300...

Academic success breeds academic success and Thailand just lacks that strong foundation on so many fronts that other Asian countries have - South Korea, Japan, China HK, Singapore, Vietnam, etc

Every year Thailand talks about educational reform at all levels but all they do is move the three shells around on the table...

Show me a poor Thai kid who is rewarded for academic excellence overseas? the Thai culture (i.e. gov scholie money) favors the wealthy and at worst the middle class. It is so difficult for a poor Thai person to have fair access for overseas Thai gov money b/c they are passed over early in the process by the previous mentioned classes...

The Thai educational system is not based merit (that says it all) but money reaching the necessary pockets of decision-makers for advancement and further opportunity to study abroad - It's really sad...

Am I alluding to corrupt practices? - your damn right...

CB

Edited October 23, 2014 by cardinalblue

[bkk_mike]

Almost completely worthless outside of Thailand. Basically not worth the parchment they are written on owing to low standards and inherent cheating that is endemic within the Thai education system.

That said the people I know here and overseas consider that the true level of achievement for a Thai BA, assuming no cheating, would be around the equivalent of a UK good A level pass, so there is some merit in them.

nonsense. i know thais with bachelor degrees who have done very well in western masters programs

Proves that you are talking completely rot as you would know any Thai wanting to undertake a higher main line degree in a traditional UK university are required to take 1 year transitional study.

As I said they (BA) are mostly worthless. That is not to say that there are a few exceptional Thais who indeed go on to earn a good higher degree, but only once they reach an acceptable standard to commence those studies. even then the majority are those fortunate ones with a well to do family who can afford to send their children to an overseas establishment for higher education and/or university to study for their first degree.

In any event this thread is regarding the "worth" of a masters degree awarded in Thailand. I really thing the OP, having attained his/her first degree in the UK should have had a little more common sense or be more worldly wise to have even needed to ask that question in the first place. Don't uni students have access to google in the UK ?

I know kids who've come out of the Thai education system (excluding International schools) generally have to do a year's foundation course in the UK before doing their Bachelors degree there, but I wasn't aware of anything similar for people who already have their first degree that are looking to study further.

I know a Thai who got his Bachelors in Thailand, then Masters in the US (not the UK admittedy), and he didn't have any extra hoops to jump through educationally, beyond passing the language test for immigration.

Edited October 23, 2014 by bkk_mike

[SheungWan]

Degrees from most Thai Universities have no value outside of the Country. There are however a number of Thai Universities that run degree courses linked with Internationally recognised Universities such as UK, USA, European, Japanese, Australian and New Zealand Universities. I have one daughter doing a Degree with a Thai-Japanese University and one with a Thai-New Zealand University Degree course. According to my friends who run Sasin University it is the only International Standard University in Thailand.

Your friends are misinformed. The highest internationally ranked Thai uni is King Mongkut. The comment that 'degrees from most Thai universities have no value outside of the country'; what exactly does that mean?

If a graduate from a Thai or other SE Asian has an undergraduate degree it has to be augmented by IELTS or something equivalent for employability overseas. The value of the degree is a foundation stone for going further as are pre-degree qualifications for studying a degree overseas so the suggestion that they have no value is nonsense.

[AYJAYDEE]

If it's not a better degree, then why would any Thai bother to spend their hard earned money studying abroad?

why do folks wear $10,000 rolexes? do they keep better time?

http://www.martynemko.com/articles/why-your-kids-shouldnt-go-harvard-even-if-they-could-get-in_id1247

Élite schools, like any luxury brand, are an aesthetic experience—an exquisitely constructed fantasy of what it means to belong to an élite —and they have always been mindful of what must be done to maintain that experience.

Who said anything about elite? Education is what you make of it. But the reputation of western universities as a whole is far better than that of Thai ones.

Btw, most job interviewers don't ask you where you got your watch. Ha ha.

and once youve had a first job, they dont give a damn where you got your degree either. and like I said, reputation is an exquisitely constructed fantasy.

[AYJAYDEE]

Almost completely worthless outside of Thailand. Basically not worth the parchment they are written on owing to low standards and inherent cheating that is endemic within the Thai education system.

That said the people I know here and overseas consider that the true level of achievement for a Thai BA, assuming no cheating, would be around the equivalent of a UK good A level pass, so there is some merit in them.

nonsense. i know thais with bachelor degrees who have done very well in western masters programs

Proves that you are talking completely rot as you would know any Thai wanting to undertake a higher main line degree in a traditional UK university are required to take 1 year transitional study.

As I said they (BA) are mostly worthless. That is not to say that there are a few exceptional Thais who indeed go on to earn a good higher degree, but only once they reach an acceptable standard to commence those studies. even then the majority are those fortunate ones with a well to do family who can afford to send their children to an overseas establishment for higher education and/or university to study for their first degree.

In any event this thread is regarding the "worth" of a masters degree awarded in Thailand. I really thing the OP, having attained his/her first degree in the UK should have had a little more common sense or be more worldly wise to have even needed to ask that question in the first place. Don't uni students have access to google in the UK ?

I know kids who've come out of the Thai education system (excluding International schools) generally have to do a year's foundation course in the UK before doing their Bachelors degree there, but I wasn't aware of anything similar for people who already have their first degree that are looking to study further.

I know a Thai who got his Bachelors in Thailand, then Masters in the US (not the UK admittedy), and he didn't have any extra hoops to jump through educationally, beyond passing the language test for immigration.

my kids came out of thai public school and the only foundation course they needed before uni was ESL. and then they became straight A students at uni

[AYJAYDEE]

AY,

Just b/c someone knows of Thais who attend Grad school in the West doesn't make it equal. The majority of Thais goes to non-accredited universities or private ones which cost a fortune...

They are the very bottom in Eng language entry exams for asian countries - just not good competitive students. And it doesn't help that only one Thai university is ranked in the world top 300...

Academic success breeds academic success and Thailand just lacks that strong foundation on so many fronts that other Asian countries have - South Korea, Japan, China HK, Singapore, Vietnam, etc

Every year Thailand talks about educational reform at all levels but all they do is move the three shells around on the table...

Show me a poor Thai kid who is rewarded for academic excellence overseas? the Thai culture (i.e. gov scholie money) favors the wealthy and at worst the middle class. It is so difficult for a poor Thai person to have fair access for overseas Thai gov money b/c they are passed over early in the process by the previous mentioned classes...

The Thai educational system is not based merit (that says it all) but money reaching the necessary pockets of decision-makers for advancement and further opportunity to study abroad - It's really sad...

Am I alluding to corrupt practices? - your damn right...

CB

nonsense. my kids did very well in university coming out of thai public school.

[pillenwerfer]

I think this is not a meritocracy, so whether you bought a degree from Pacific University or got a 1:1 from Cambridge is irrelevant.

It's Who You KNOW

One wonders where people dream up their silly comments. Anyway to rephrase the last bit, what is important is who wants to know you and one's education background definitely helps.

By the way what on earth is a 1:1. Is it supposed to designate a First?

For those of us who went up in the 6o's we meant it as a double first. Lew Kwan Yew had one.

Maybe the OP was also at Oxbridgein the "in crowd".

Edited October 24, 2014 by pillenwerfer

[Thaddeus]

AY,

Just b/c someone knows of Thais who attend Grad school in the West doesn't make it equal. The majority of Thais goes to non-accredited universities or private ones which cost a fortune...

They are the very bottom in Eng language entry exams for asian countries - just not good competitive students. And it doesn't help that only one Thai university is ranked in the world top 300...

Academic success breeds academic success and Thailand just lacks that strong foundation on so many fronts that other Asian countries have - South Korea, Japan, China HK, Singapore, Vietnam, etc

Every year Thailand talks about educational reform at all levels but all they do is move the three shells around on the table...

Show me a poor Thai kid who is rewarded for academic excellence overseas? the Thai culture (i.e. gov scholie money) favors the wealthy and at worst the middle class. It is so difficult for a poor Thai person to have fair access for overseas Thai gov money b/c they are passed over early in the process by the previous mentioned classes...

The Thai educational system is not based merit (that says it all) but money reaching the necessary pockets of decision-makers for advancement and further opportunity to study abroad - It's really sad...

Am I alluding to corrupt practices? - your damn right...

CB

nonsense. my kids did very well in university coming out of thai public school.

Did you play any part in educating them?

[mike324]

SASAIN MBA from Chula (Ranked 1st in Thailand) is probably the only reputable one as they collaborate their curriculum with Kellogg and Wharton Business Schools in the US, probably two of the top 5 ranked business schools in US. So if you have a degree from SASIN it would hold some weight. Unless you have specialized skills, it would be hard to find a job or get a work permit unless you do freelance jobs which won't pay that well, not enough to save up.

1.) Locally - Its regarded as the best

2.) Internationally - Its pretty much almost unknown unless people go read about the SASIN's program and who they collaborated with.

As for SASIN itself, there are a lot of bright minds but its also a program where rich Thai kids go to network and party. Is it useful, yes sure why not, its a good curriculum, its what you do with it afterwards that counts. Is it hard work? I can say compare to the US education its childs play, but if your group members for project are crap it will be hard work, if you get good group members it will be a breeze. I have friends who took the program, most enjoyed it.

If you can get a generous grant, you may enjoy studying and having fun in Thailand.

[shaggy28303]

Dude enroll in Webster University here in Thailand get your visa and you will have a world wide accredited degree

[SlyAnimal]

The top Thai universities are internationally ranked and recognized, here's a link to one of the ranking sites for them:

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2014#sorting=rank+region=+country=131+faculty=+stars=false+search=

You can then check their position in relation to UK/USA universities etc, and find that although they're no where near Oxford/Cambridge or Ivy League colleagues, they're still reputable (A lot more so than a lot of people here give them credit for).

However, the top universities charge fees which reflect their status as the top universities in Thailand. As an international student, you wouldn't be eligible for the government subsidies, so your studies might end up costing a similar amount to what you'd pay in the UK.

The lower ranked universities aren't internationally ranked, and really are degree mills, and they are what give the entire tertiary education system in Thailand a bad name, as they are often riddled with corruption, plagiarism, cheating, low academic standards or all of the above. e.g. One of my wife's friends, was able to finish her master's degree in Education Administration, within a little over 1 year, while studying part time (1 day each weekend). Another university, which I think was called the University of ESAN (But am not 100% sure, as can't find anything on it online anymore), was de-registered as a university around 5 years ago I think, because it became public knowledge that people could just buy a degree from them.

So if you're going to study, make sure you study at one of the internationally ranked univeristies, otherwise your master's won't be internationally recognised (And even then, studying at a top 500 university will be much better than a top 1000 university).

[Xeralf]

Notice that most Thai that have the opportunity go abroad for postgrad. Some postgrads in Science might be ok here, but in your field I have serious doubts. I know some students enroll for the contacts they might make. This does not mean you cannot do it and develop a great career. I guess some do.

Being an English speaking node in the network is an advantage but there is a lot of "nodding" going on in this network.

If you wish to register to keep busy, meet people and learn something, have access to a library and deadlines, it might do the trick. If you have the skills and personality you might even get to assist some Professor, build CV and make a bit of money. I would not count on it for your decision.

If you don't care about serious learning, then, whatever. If you care about serious learning, then you must get into self-regulated learning and never forget that one day you might need to relocate.

[SheungWan]

The top Thai universities are internationally ranked and recognized, here's a link to one of the ranking sites for them:

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2014#sorting=rank+region=+country=131+faculty=+stars=false+search=

You can then check their position in relation to UK/USA universities etc, and find that although they're no where near Oxford/Cambridge or Ivy League colleagues, they're still reputable (A lot more so than a lot of people here give them credit for).

However, the top universities charge fees which reflect their status as the top universities in Thailand. As an international student, you wouldn't be eligible for the government subsidies, so your studies might end up costing a similar amount to what you'd pay in the UK.

The lower ranked universities aren't internationally ranked, and really are degree mills, and they are what give the entire tertiary education system in Thailand a bad name, as they are often riddled with corruption, plagiarism, cheating, low academic standards or all of the above. e.g. One of my wife's friends, was able to finish her master's degree in Education Administration, within a little over 1 year, while studying part time (1 day each weekend). Another university, which I think was called the University of ESAN (But am not 100% sure, as can't find anything on it online anymore), was de-registered as a university around 5 years ago I think, because it became public knowledge that people could just buy a degree from them.

So if you're going to study, make sure you study at one of the internationally ranked univeristies, otherwise your master's won't be internationally recognised (And even then, studying at a top 500 university will be much better than a top 1000 university).

You are incorrect in saying that unless you attend a ranked university your degree won't be internationally recognised. Just plain wrong. Uni admissions offices do not work that way. Those unis which don't interview will be looking at as well as the school/degree results (as I have noted before) the student's IELTS score and the supporting statement. In particular if you are applying to one of the UK new unis these factors will be taken into consideration. Some of the new unis also have offices in certain countries so prospective students can also apply in person. As has been noted before some UK unis provide a pre-masters diploma where a student is consdered to need some top up. If you care to attend for example any UK overseas education fair you will find that plenty of students apply for and attend these courses. But it is their local education which provided the students with a means to get their foot in the door.

Edited October 24, 2014 by SheungWan

[otocheater]

Thai University? From my experience. I need to go to class 5 days a week. If i missed the class 6 times that mean autometically fail in that subject without exam. But maybe master more relax but hard work.

1. Chulalongkorn same as Oxford in uk.

2. Mahidol maybe Cambridge uk

3.Tamasart popular like Imperial or UCL

4.ABAC just like LSE

Okay na.

Good luck

[SlyAnimal]

The top Thai universities are internationally ranked and recognized, here's a link to one of the ranking sites for them:

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2014#sorting=rank+region=+country=131+faculty=+stars=false+search=

You can then check their position in relation to UK/USA universities etc, and find that although they're no where near Oxford/Cambridge or Ivy League colleagues, they're still reputable (A lot more so than a lot of people here give them credit for).

However, the top universities charge fees which reflect their status as the top universities in Thailand. As an international student, you wouldn't be eligible for the government subsidies, so your studies might end up costing a similar amount to what you'd pay in the UK.

The lower ranked universities aren't internationally ranked, and really are degree mills, and they are what give the entire tertiary education system in Thailand a bad name, as they are often riddled with corruption, plagiarism, cheating, low academic standards or all of the above. e.g. One of my wife's friends, was able to finish her master's degree in Education Administration, within a little over 1 year, while studying part time (1 day each weekend). Another university, which I think was called the University of ESAN (But am not 100% sure, as can't find anything on it online anymore), was de-registered as a university around 5 years ago I think, because it became public knowledge that people could just buy a degree from them.

So if you're going to study, make sure you study at one of the internationally ranked univeristies, otherwise your master's won't be internationally recognised (And even then, studying at a top 500 university will be much better than a top 1000 university).

You are incorrect in saying that unless you attend a ranked university your degree won't be internationally recognised. Just plain wrong. Uni admissions offices do not work that way. Those unis which don't interview will be looking at as well as the school/degree results (as I have noted before) the student's IELTS score and the supporting statement. In particular if you are applying to one of the UK new unis these factors will be taken into consideration. Some of the new unis also have offices in certain countries so prospective students can also apply in person. As has been noted before some UK unis provide a pre-masters diploma where a student is consdered to need some top up. If you care to attend for example any UK overseas education fair you will find that plenty of students apply for and attend these courses. But it is their local education which provided the students with a means to get their foot in the door.

So if you were to attend a university which was the lowest ranked in Thailand, where the only things people can find out about it are that it has a reputation for cheating and passing every student regardless of their ability.

Your degree will then still be recognized by international law societies, accounting institutes, teaching councils, be offered jobs with international companies and be accepted into institutions worldwide for further postgraduate study?

Sounds good, why would anyone even bother studying at the more difficult institutions lol.

Oh and by "internationally ranked", I do realise that there are various different ranking systems, and so not all ranked universities are on the one I linked, some are on other ranking sites instead which give different weighting a to each attribute)

[jdinasia]

Dude enroll in Webster University here in Thailand get your visa and you will have a world wide accredited degree

Not a chance I would attend there..

[jdinasia]

BTW my husband attended both Thai public schools and a Thai University.

He has worked for major international companies.

[SheungWan]

The top Thai universities are internationally ranked and recognized, here's a link to one of the ranking sites for them:

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2014#sorting=rank+region=+country=131+faculty=+stars=false+search=

You can then check their position in relation to UK/USA universities etc, and find that although they're no where near Oxford/Cambridge or Ivy League colleagues, they're still reputable (A lot more so than a lot of people here give them credit for).

However, the top universities charge fees which reflect their status as the top universities in Thailand. As an international student, you wouldn't be eligible for the government subsidies, so your studies might end up costing a similar amount to what you'd pay in the UK.

The lower ranked universities aren't internationally ranked, and really are degree mills, and they are what give the entire tertiary education system in Thailand a bad name, as they are often riddled with corruption, plagiarism, cheating, low academic standards or all of the above. e.g. One of my wife's friends, was able to finish her master's degree in Education Administration, within a little over 1 year, while studying part time (1 day each weekend). Another university, which I think was called the University of ESAN (But am not 100% sure, as can't find anything on it online anymore), was de-registered as a university around 5 years ago I think, because it became public knowledge that people could just buy a degree from them.

So if you're going to study, make sure you study at one of the internationally ranked univeristies, otherwise your master's won't be internationally recognised (And even then, studying at a top 500 university will be much better than a top 1000 university).

You are incorrect in saying that unless you attend a ranked university your degree won't be internationally recognised. Just plain wrong. Uni admissions offices do not work that way. Those unis which don't interview will be looking at as well as the school/degree results (as I have noted before) the student's IELTS score and the supporting statement. In particular if you are applying to one of the UK new unis these factors will be taken into consideration. Some of the new unis also have offices in certain countries so prospective students can also apply in person. As has been noted before some UK unis provide a pre-masters diploma where a student is consdered to need some top up. If you care to attend for example any UK overseas education fair you will find that plenty of students apply for and attend these courses. But it is their local education which provided the students with a means to get their foot in the door.

So if you were to attend a university which was the lowest ranked in Thailand, where the only things people can find out about it are that it has a reputation for cheating and passing every student regardless of their ability.

Your degree will then still be recognized by international law societies, accounting institutes, teaching councils, be offered jobs with international companies and be accepted into institutions worldwide for further postgraduate study?

Sounds good, why would anyone even bother studying at the more difficult institutions lol.

Oh and by "internationally ranked", I do realise that there are various different ranking systems, and so not all ranked universities are on the one I linked, some are on other ranking sites instead which give different weighting a to each attribute)

If the university is approved by the Thai education system then its degrees are formally considered to have the same value as all other approved insitutions. The same thing applies in the UK.

Professional institutions lay down degree exemptions based on approved courses from approved universities so should treat all equivalent insitutions equally. Institutions are in formal terms not considered better if they are more difficult, whatever that means. Maybe you are thinking more rigorous? Yes some departments are but this is not something which is ranked. Companies will and do consider more favourably graduates from certain institutions over others but there is an argument as to whether they therefore get the best. Smart companies will happily take a graduate with a First from a new uni over a graduate with a Third or Pass degree from an old or more prestigious uni. All things being equal I would recommend trying to gain admission to as 'good' an institution as you can achieve, but there are horses for courses and whether it is a lower ranked Thai or UK university, there is a market for their courses and if that is what is available for someone then take the opportunity and do the best you can. Bottom line is that a graduate if they have done well can use that qualification to push further up the ladder. I am, however, thinking primarily in terms of STEM subjects. As for cheating etc it is up to the individual student whether they wish to indulge in this anywhere. Cheat in maths and it all goes pear-shaped very quickly. For the softer subjects it has less of an impact. And that is why employers like the numeric subjects. Whatever the gradations assessment here the one fundamental point is that those lower in the pecking order should not be written off. Those who level such accusations should be careful that someone else doesn't come along and bite them in the bum.

Edited October 24, 2014 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

Thai University? From my experience. I need to go to class 5 days a week. If i missed the class 6 times that mean autometically fail in that subject without exam. But maybe master more relax but hard work.

1. Chulalongkorn same as Oxford in uk.

2. Mahidol maybe Cambridge uk

3.Tamasart popular like Imperial or UCL

4.ABAC just like LSE

Okay na.

Good luck

Assumption does nursing and engineering so why compare with LSE?

Re Thammasat, you can't compare with Imperial and UCL based on popularity, whatever that means.

Mahidol University you shouldn't compare with Cambridge. Mahidol has just signed a Memorandum of Understanding with Sussex University.

Chula's world ranking on the chart provided by the uni is number 239. I think Oxford is a little higher.

Edited October 24, 2014 by SheungWan

[jdinasia]

Chula is ranked 122 by reputation.

Note - that is a world ranking.

Thaksin and his sister .. Went to US universities ranked lower than 3000th I think.

Edited October 24, 2014 by jdinasia

[culicine]

Almost completely worthless outside of Thailand. Basically not worth the parchment they are written on owing to low standards and inherent cheating that is endemic within the Thai education system.

That said the people I know here and overseas consider that the true level of achievement for a Thai BA, assuming no cheating, would be around the equivalent of a UK good A level pass, so there is some merit in them.

nonsense. i know thais with bachelor degrees who have done very well in western masters programs

and PhD's...like my wife. There are no worthless degrees. Just worthless students.

[SlyAnimal]

If the university is approved by the Thai education system then its degrees are formally considered to have the same value as all other approved insitutions. The same thing applies in the UK.

Professional institutions lay down degree exemptions based on approved courses from approved universities so should treat all equivalent insitutions equally. Institutions are in formal terms not considered better if they are more difficult, whatever that means. Maybe you are thinking more rigorous? Yes some departments are but this is not something which is ranked. Companies will and do consider more favourably graduates from certain institutions over others but there is an argument as to whether they therefore get the best. Smart companies will happily take a graduate with a First from a new uni over a graduate with a Third or Pass degree from an old or more prestigious uni. All things being equal I would recommend trying to gain admission to as 'good' an institution as you can achieve, but there are horses for courses and whether it is a lower ranked Thai or UK university, there is a market for their courses and if that is what is available for someone then take the opportunity and do the best you can. Bottom line is that a graduate if they have done well can use that qualification to push further up the ladder. I am, however, thinking primarily in terms of STEM subjects. As for cheating etc it is up to the individual student whether they wish to indulge in this anywhere. Cheat in maths and it all goes pear-shaped very quickly. For the softer subjects it has less of an impact. And that is why employers like the numeric subjects. Whatever the gradations assessment here the one fundamental point is that those lower in the pecking order should not be written off. Those who level such accusations should be careful that someone else doesn't come along and bite them in the bum.

"Degree exemptions based on approved courses from approved universities...."

So different courses, at different universities are going to be approved, while other courses, at other universities aren't.....

When I've previously called the Teacher's council of NZ, asking if I studied a BEdu or DipTeach in Thailand, would it be recognised in NZ, they advised me that each qualification was assessed on a case by case basis, and that there wasn't a nationwide "yes" or "no" for Thailand (Or even a list of approved institutions, as it was case by case). I would assume that most countries would run a similar system, and assess each qualification on it's own merits (Although some countries, where the general standard of tertiary education might have all institutions accepted, while others might have all institutions declined).

With this in mind, you definitely wouldn't want to risk a university which didn't have a good reputation as a quality institution. I wouldn't recommend that anyone study at a Thai university which isn't internationally ranked, not if they intend on using their degree overseas.

I know a Cambodian couple in NZ, who had degrees in Business Management & Civil Engineering. Neither were recognised in NZ, and so both ended up studying second bachelor degrees in NZ for another 4 years. Because they selected universities which weren't recognised internationally, their time spent studying in Cambodia was completely wasted (Although of course, they had no problems getting work in civil engineering etc in Cambodia). You don't want to end up like them, so make sure that you choose a university which has a decent reputation.

Although admittedly, as the OP wants to study management, he's more likely to be simply applying for jobs, rather than applying for his qualification to be recognised by government institutions. With that in mind, employers will likely take a look at your university ranking, and will decide whether they recognise it or not. The top universities in Thailand have a lot of prestige within Thailand, and as a previous poster said, Chula, Mahidol and Tamasart have reputations which are (within Thailand) on par with Oxford/Cambdige etc, where at government schools, the school dux can probably get into one of the top 3, but most of the others would consider it a waste of time even applying (The top private schools of course have lots of students who get in). Although internationally people will just look at them based on their international ranking, where they are on par with a quite good, but definitely not amazing, western university.

[BudRight]

Well you're pretty much screwed with a degree in Business anyway so it doesn't really matter where you do your MBA unless it's Yale.

[richard10365]

One of my classmates from Payap University in Chiang Mai is studying at Harvard University. Another us studying at the London School of Economics.

[pillenwerfer]

I wrote a reference for an applicant to a UK University, and they responded as to how I could be so confident regarding his ability.

They sniffed at his results in the "Engineer in Society" subject in CEI Part 2 exam, the academic requirement for Chartered Engineer.

It was six technical subjects at degree level and a compulsory "Engineer in Society" exam.

The "Engineer in Society" exam. required/recommended that the prospective examinee read "The Economist" and "The Observer", for example and listen to BBC Radio.

I responded regarding the high failure rate in the UK and that his native language was not English. He was accepted and went "The Whole Way", as Richard Gere did in "Happy Woman"

A friend in the UK who struggled mightily with CEI Part 2, remarked that when advertising for astronauts, all that needed to be asked was "Anyone passed CEI Part 2 ?"

As a postscript the student never achieved Chartered Engineer status, as the requirements for managerial/technical experience are many years and were not met in his future career. He entered the family business.

I don't know if there is a similar qualification in Thailand for Professional Engineers, (PE in USA).

Edited October 25, 2014 by pillenwerfer

[richard10365]

Before I start, let me remind the readers that this is only my opinion and I have no scientific fact to back up anything in this post other than my experiences of being an MBA student at a Thai university.

I think where you study for an MBA depends on your abilities as a student more than the school you go to. However, some simple problems with the schools itself can make the school more of the issue than the student. Let me explain.

There are some incredibly smart students whose cognitive abilities can quickly grasp concepts and ideas they've never heard before. They can read through a chapter in a text book one time and fully understand what they've read. They are focused and have no problems with any assignments they are given by their professor. They think advanced calculus is easy. They perform exceptionally well on the GMAT. The burden of learning is more on the teacher than the student since the student is very academically talented. These students should be the ones studying in schools such as Harvard, Stanford or Wharton. Applications for these schools can be well over 20,000 per year.

Other types of students have respectable GMAT scores and their math skills are up to advanced algebra. They spend a lot of time reading the assigned text but grasping the meaning of the text is a bit of a struggle. They have no problems completing their assignments. They do have distractions in their lives but not enough to keep them from learning well. This group can study at Harvard, Stanford and Wharton and other top schools but it would be a lot of work for them. Other less challenging schools might allow them a classroom pace that would give them a better chance of understanding complicated graduate level business concepts.

The rest of us, including myself, can get an excellent MBA education at less demanding universities but the burden of learning is more on the student and not on the teacher. True, this group is harder to teach. Often in these classrooms you hear the instructor say, "it's not my responsibility to teach you math." Many in this group are math challenged (including myself). Concepts are not easy to grasp and YouTube and other online learning internet sites are frequented by the student in order to understand the material. Some of these students are not focused and often distracted by other issues in their life. Also, there is always someone in this group that should have went to Harvard and they usually expend no effort in the classroom but still are the best student(s). Maybe they don't have money for Harvard or maybe they are lazy but hopefully they will use their skills to help the others in the classroom.

There is a general idea or curriculum that is similar in all MBA programs in most university around the world. If you compare the curriculum of the MBA program at Payap University in Chiang Mai and the MBA program at Harvard University you would find a similar structure. Accounting classes, finance classes, economics classes and other elective business classes which you expect to find in an MBA program are there but usually the names of the courses are different. Often an academic writing project such as a thesis is also required. At Payap we often used Harvard case studies, American text books and often foreign instructors. Philip Kotler and Michael Parkins were the authors listed on the outside of some of my textbooks.

The main classroom differences between a high ranked university such as Harvard and Payap University is the pace or depth of the class and the talent that stands in front of the class to deliver the material. The less talented the teacher, the more the student has to work. The less talented the student, the harder the teacher has to work. Harvard has tons of money to hire the best talent in the world and they are very selective in who they accept as a student.

From my experience in an MBA program at Payap Univeristy, although expensive compared to other Thai schools, Payap pays comparatively low salaries to it's instructors and thus has the bare minimum amount of teachers required by law to keep the course open. In addition to a 5.5 IELTS or 550 TOEFL, the only requirement to study is to have a bachelor's degree in anything from an accredited university. Usually no one is turned away. At times, the instructor was not great quality. Payap outsources most of it's MBA classes to instructors from Bangkok who fly to Chiang Mai to teach on the weekend. This made office hours quite difficult to have and thus the quality of the course suffered as email often did not get answered in a reasonable amount of time. This also affects the number of elective classes a student can take. At Harvard, the student can take almost anything. At Payap, the entire class has to agree on what to take so Payap can outsource that class to a teacher from Bangkok. With that said, I think I got a good education from most of the classes at Payap but only because I worked hard for it.

The biggest drawback to Payap University's MBA program is teaching how to write an academic paper. This is their greatest weakness. Their research class was a bit weak based on talent in front of the class. It was another outsourced class taught by someone with no academic rank. There was no thesis format or written process given to the MBA students. They say it's being developed but I've been asking for a thesis format for two years now and still nothing. They have one in Thai but can't seem to afford to get that document translated into English. Payap gives the student someone else completed thesis and they're told me to write it similar to how that thesis is written. The lack of written instructions on the thesis writing process or their proposals and defenses is very frustrating. Students are told to just write and bring it to your adviser who will tell the student why it's not correct, how to fix it and to bring it back. I'm told this is normal for Thailand. I have no idea. However, it doesn't feel right.

All my classes are completed now and I only have to write my thesis. Although most of my classes were OK, based on the Payap's approach to writing a thesis, I would not recommend their MBA program to anyone. It's just that important. If I had to do it over again, I would not study in Payap's international MBA program knowing what I know now.

[SheungWan]

If the university is approved by the Thai education system then its degrees are formally considered to have the same value as all other approved insitutions. The same thing applies in the UK.

Professional institutions lay down degree exemptions based on approved courses from approved universities so should treat all equivalent insitutions equally. Institutions are in formal terms not considered better if they are more difficult, whatever that means. Maybe you are thinking more rigorous? Yes some departments are but this is not something which is ranked. Companies will and do consider more favourably graduates from certain institutions over others but there is an argument as to whether they therefore get the best. Smart companies will happily take a graduate with a First from a new uni over a graduate with a Third or Pass degree from an old or more prestigious uni. All things being equal I would recommend trying to gain admission to as 'good' an institution as you can achieve, but there are horses for courses and whether it is a lower ranked Thai or UK university, there is a market for their courses and if that is what is available for someone then take the opportunity and do the best you can. Bottom line is that a graduate if they have done well can use that qualification to push further up the ladder. I am, however, thinking primarily in terms of STEM subjects. As for cheating etc it is up to the individual student whether they wish to indulge in this anywhere. Cheat in maths and it all goes pear-shaped very quickly. For the softer subjects it has less of an impact. And that is why employers like the numeric subjects. Whatever the gradations assessment here the one fundamental point is that those lower in the pecking order should not be written off. Those who level such accusations should be careful that someone else doesn't come along and bite them in the bum.

"Degree exemptions based on approved courses from approved universities...."

So different courses, at different universities are going to be approved, while other courses, at other universities aren't.....

When I've previously called the Teacher's council of NZ, asking if I studied a BEdu or DipTeach in Thailand, would it be recognised in NZ, they advised me that each qualification was assessed on a case by case basis, and that there wasn't a nationwide "yes" or "no" for Thailand (Or even a list of approved institutions, as it was case by case). I would assume that most countries would run a similar system, and assess each qualification on it's own merits (Although some countries, where the general standard of tertiary education might have all institutions accepted, while others might have all institutions declined).

With this in mind, you definitely wouldn't want to risk a university which didn't have a good reputation as a quality institution. I wouldn't recommend that anyone study at a Thai university which isn't internationally ranked, not if they intend on using their degree overseas.

I know a Cambodian couple in NZ, who had degrees in Business Management & Civil Engineering. Neither were recognised in NZ, and so both ended up studying second bachelor degrees in NZ for another 4 years. Because they selected universities which weren't recognised internationally, their time spent studying in Cambodia was completely wasted (Although of course, they had no problems getting work in civil engineering etc in Cambodia). You don't want to end up like them, so make sure that you choose a university which has a decent reputation.

Although admittedly, as the OP wants to study management, he's more likely to be simply applying for jobs, rather than applying for his qualification to be recognised by government institutions. With that in mind, employers will likely take a look at your university ranking, and will decide whether they recognise it or not. The top universities in Thailand have a lot of prestige within Thailand, and as a previous poster said, Chula, Mahidol and Tamasart have reputations which are (within Thailand) on par with Oxford/Cambdige etc, where at government schools, the school dux can probably get into one of the top 3, but most of the others would consider it a waste of time even applying (The top private schools of course have lots of students who get in). Although internationally people will just look at them based on their international ranking, where they are on par with a quite good, but definitely not amazing, western university.

I think one has to distinguish between formal approval of a course and acceptance of a pass in that course by the university one is applying to. The UK system 'stipulates' (or at least did) as a default that 2 A levels were required to be accepted on to a degree course offered by a recognised UK university. So, EE in 2 appropriate subjects means you can be accepted and Oxbridge will be no different. However, having the minimum entry requirements does not mean that a particular university will offer you a place. Each university can set its own entry requirements and that can vary from subject to subject within a single institution. Now on to the second point re which uni to choose if one has appropriate entry requirements. Well, IMHO if you can gain admission to a higher ranked uni you would be silly not to. The truth is that students applying to some of the lesser ranked colleges do so, not so much out of choice but rather because their prior educational achievement gives them a more restricted choice plus the cost of living in Thailand makes doing such a course more affordable. If I had say a 2ii from the UK and I knew that my chances of getting into one of the higher ranked UK unis for a masters was pretty limited at that point, I might consider doing a Masters in Thailand and then use that as an entrance qualification to a second Masters at a uni back in the UK and complete the repair of my educational CV.

[SheungWan]

Before I start, let me remind the readers that this is only my opinion and I have no scientific fact to back up anything in this post other than my experiences of being an MBA student at a Thai university.

I think where you study for an MBA depends on your abilities as a student more than the school you go to. However, some simple problems with the schools itself can make the school more of the issue than the student. Let me explain.

There are some incredibly smart students whose cognitive abilities can quickly grasp concepts and ideas they've never heard before. They can read through a chapter in a text book one time and fully understand what they've read. They are focused and have no problems with any assignments they are given by their professor. They think advanced calculus is easy. They perform exceptionally well on the GMAT. The burden of learning is more on the teacher than the student since the student is very academically talented. These students should be the ones studying in schools such as Harvard, Stanford or Wharton. Applications for these schools can be well over 20,000 per year.

Other types of students have respectable GMAT scores and their math skills are up to advanced algebra. They spend a lot of time reading the assigned text but grasping the meaning of the text is a bit of a struggle. They have no problems completing their assignments. They do have distractions in their lives but not enough to keep them from learning well. This group can study at Harvard, Stanford and Wharton and other top schools but it would be a lot of work for them. Other less challenging schools might allow them a classroom pace that would give them a better chance of understanding complicated graduate level business concepts.

The rest of us, including myself, can get an excellent MBA education at less demanding universities but the burden of learning is more on the student and not on the teacher. True, this group is harder to teach. Often in these classrooms you hear the instructor say, "it's not my responsibility to teach you math." Many in this group are math challenged (including myself). Concepts are not easy to grasp and YouTube and other online learning internet sites are frequented by the student in order to understand the material. Some of these students are not focused and often distracted by other issues in their life. Also, there is always someone in this group that should have went to Harvard and they usually expend no effort in the classroom but still are the best student(s). Maybe they don't have money for Harvard or maybe they are lazy but hopefully they will use their skills to help the others in the classroom.

There is a general idea or curriculum that is similar in all MBA programs in most university around the world. If you compare the curriculum of the MBA program at Payap University in Chiang Mai and the MBA program at Harvard University you would find a similar structure. Accounting classes, finance classes, economics classes and other elective business classes which you expect to find in an MBA program are there but usually the names of the courses are different. Often an academic writing project such as a thesis is also required. At Payap we often used Harvard case studies, American text books and often foreign instructors. Philip Kotler and Michael Parkins were the authors listed on the outside of some of my textbooks.

The main classroom differences between a high ranked university such as Harvard and Payap University is the pace or depth of the class and the talent that stands in front of the class to deliver the material. The less talented the teacher, the more the student has to work. The less talented the student, the harder the teacher has to work. Harvard has tons of money to hire the best talent in the world and they are very selective in who they accept as a student.

From my experience in an MBA program at Payap Univeristy, although expensive compared to other Thai schools, Payap pays comparatively low salaries to it's instructors and thus has the bare minimum amount of teachers required by law to keep the course open. In addition to a 5.5 IELTS or 550 TOEFL, the only requirement to study is to have a bachelor's degree in anything from an accredited university. Usually no one is turned away. At times, the instructor was not great quality. Payap outsources most of it's MBA classes to instructors from Bangkok who fly to Chiang Mai to teach on the weekend. This made office hours quite difficult to have and thus the quality of the course suffered as email often did not get answered in a reasonable amount of time. This also affects the number of elective classes a student can take. At Harvard, the student can take almost anything. At Payap, the entire class has to agree on what to take so Payap can outsource that class to a teacher from Bangkok. With that said, I think I got a good education from most of the classes at Payap but only because I worked hard for it.

The biggest drawback to Payap University's MBA program is teaching how to write an academic paper. This is their greatest weakness. Their research class was a bit weak based on talent in front of the class. It was another outsourced class taught by someone with no academic rank. There was no thesis format or written process given to the MBA students. They say it's being developed but I've been asking for a thesis format for two years now and still nothing. They have one in Thai but can't seem to afford to get that document translated into English. Payap gives the student someone else completed thesis and they're told me to write it similar to how that thesis is written. The lack of written instructions on the thesis writing process or their proposals and defenses is very frustrating. Students are told to just write and bring it to your adviser who will tell the student why it's not correct, how to fix it and to bring it back. I'm told this is normal for Thailand. I have no idea. However, it doesn't feel right.

All my classes are completed now and I only have to write my thesis. Although most of my classes were OK, based on the Payap's approach to writing a thesis, I would not recommend their MBA program to anyone. It's just that important. If I had to do it over again, I would not study in Payap's international MBA program knowing what I know now.

Research methods is a problem everywhere and there is no step-by-step magic formula. The completion of a thesis can be 'distressing' for students who have spent their prior educational years being told what to do but yes you just have to get stuck in. The best prior preparation is to read a bunch of prior completed projects to get an idea of depth and research undertaken. It is the student's responsibility to come up with a suitable topic. Don't be too ambitious and if possible identify a problem which requires some mathematical/software analysis at least in some part of the thesis. You should think of your thesis as a calling card for future employment so stay away from a glorified cut and paste.