Canada shootings: Soldier killed and Ottawa on lockdown

[simondan]

By Jessica Chasmar - The Washington Times - Wednesday, October 22, 2014

"A top Canadian naval officer reportedly warned soldiers on Tuesday not to wear their uniforms out in public for fear of being targeted, following two deadly attacks this week on uniformed soldiers in Quebec and Ontario."

MORE

I don't think that will solve the problem!

My condolences to the soldiers, and others killed, and their families.

The opposite should be done, allow soldiers in uniform to carry at least sidearms. The Sgt at arms got it right, one less to worry about, root them out and kill them.This happening in Canada is an eye opener that ALL western countries will be targeted.This plague will continue until all western countries as well as others band together to deal with this problem in a united manner. I hope Canadians can sort it out quickly.

Actually, I agree with the request that soldiers not wear uniforms, and one might assume that means when not on duty. Why make yourself a target?

As for sidearms, they have their place but they are wimpy and short-ranged compared to any center fire rifle. If a soldier sees a shooting going down about a block away it's out of range of his handgun. If they are on duty I'd like to see them carry their M-16. It's very light weight, not real big, very easy to carry with a shoulder strap, very accurate out to at least 400 yards/meters, and holds a lot of rounds depending on magazine.

If a soldier sees a shooting going down a block (100 yards./100 meters) away, he can easily stop it with that rifle.

The last time I was in Washington DC the ceremonial guards at places like Arlington Cemetery and others were carrying their rifles.

Arlingt.jpg

But are they loaded? With real rounds?

Anyway, soldiers arent generally trained for that sort of intervention (in a civil setting, operating unilaterally not under orders and on busy streets), police are.

Maybe just leaving the uniforms at work for a few months might be easier and safer?

[JDGRUEN]

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The Sergeant-at-Arms, Kevin Vickers, who shot the assailant, at the Parliament building will now be a marked man for the rest of his life. We can await news of the next attack wondering where it will occur.

Yes a marked man, sad doing his duty, Mr. Cirillo also do his assigned duty. Canada now has joined Isis hit list in tit for tat. Being here in Thailand I have assigned my being away from what Cdn's does in joining US forces in sending fighter jets to combat Isis. Like a soap opera I can change the channel or in theater leave yet the problems still exist for those whom stay. With Cdn tax dollar the probe into further exposure of extremists will no doubt will surface. Extremist should be allowed to leave Canada and follow their doom, as example is restraining a dog's main focus is to guard outside hearing a threat to protect its territory.

Canada is so young in the development of the country's roots and allows freedom to many of the immigrants to Canada. In the early years the first terrorist were Ukrainians Dukabores ...yes in early 1960 the freedom fighters blew up Hydro towers in BC. More tax dollars like in America will be assigned to "Homeland security" as the budget for education and family assistance will be less.

One bonus that make Canadian's proud is that the Universities have developed an Ibola vaccine...lets remain on the positive..open the door to let out the barking dog!

Thank goodness there are some with bravery, resoluteness and calm demeanor .... who work for the greater good.

http://clashdaily.com/2014/10/good-guy-gun-saved-lives-sergeant-arms-walks-like-boss-gun-hand-just-killed-muslim-terrorist/

[arjunadawn]

If people throughout the world were increasingly catching a "cold" that had them coughing themsevles to death, doctors would treat the cough yes, but diagnose the infection as well. Its a matter of simple intelligent inquiry. Throughout the world today, and now Canada, radical islam is stalking all civilization and products of enlightened society. However, the only thing really being discussed is the "cough;" the circumstances of each new act of dreadful violence- to the point of numbess. Few are willing to actually query and name the core disease that is infecting so many people. Lets be clear, ideology can infect people as surely as a virus; indeed, in many regards it has the same reservoirs, vectors, transmission, communicabilty, and morbidity.

The acts in Canada are but one more manifestation of a real disease, far more deadly than ebola (Ebola may kill humanity but it would not erase us having passed), ravishing the islamic communities of this world. It is actually quite easy to detect the causative agent. If all these jihadists, such as in Canada, had Mein Kampf as their single common denominator you can bet your ass we would be hearing about this book instigating the infectious savagery and sedition sweeping the world. We would know exactly what was causing the "cough." But we do not discuss such things, do we? Thus it is inevitable that the threats posed will increase dramatically as denial fuels blindness.

Edited October 23, 2014 by arjunadawn

[Publicus]

It would seem the order of the day is for the predictable apologists to appear and work to minimize outright slaughter by a radicalized member of a religious cult ... Regardless of his parentage and his assisted radicalization ... he is just to be seen as another mere criminal ... If it were not so tragic the appearance of the excuse makers would be comical...

No one at the thread is an "excuse maker" or is making excuses in any attempt to justify or condone the tragic and traumatic events in Ottawa Canada yesterday or for the loss of life that sadly occurred there.

Canada especially is well aware it has nothing for which it must or should apologize to anyone, to include lunatics from a religion that has (too easily) lost control of itself and of too many of its believers to include converts..

Canadians and the rest of us are tasked with dealing with a new and a harsh reality that is likely to change Canada in unfortunate (but necessary) ways, so stop trying to dogmatically create false devil apologists or excuse makers because they don't exist here or anywhere else.

[Bwanatickey]

Is a group out there rubbing their greedy hands, thinking welcome to the fight Canada, now we can market our security products to you, and make you into high tech surveillance fortress.

[Publicus]

If people throughout the world were increasingly catching a "cold" that had them coughing themsevles to death, doctors would treat the cough yes, but diagnose the infection as well. Its a matter of simple intelligent inquiry. Throughout the world today, and now Canada, radical islam is stalking all civilization and products of enlightened society. However, the only thing really being discussed is the "cough;" the circumstances of each new act of dreadful violence- to the point of numbess. Few are willing to actually query and name the core disease that is infecting so many people. Lets be clear, ideology can infect people as surely as a virus; indeed, in many regards it has the same reservoirs, vectors, transmission, communicabilty, and morbidity.

The acts in Canada are but one more manifestation of a real disease, far more deadly than ebola (Ebola may kill humanity but it would not erase us having passed), ravishing the islamic communities of this world. It is actually quite easy to detect the causative agent. If all these jihadists, such as in Canada, had Mein Kampf as their single common denominator you can bet your ass we would be hearing about this book instigating the infectious savagery and sedition sweeping the world. We would know exactly what was causing the "cough." But we do not discuss such things, do we? Thus it is inevitable that the threats posed will increase dramatically as denial fuels blindness.

What can seem a reasonably argued post leads to what end or purpose? Its direction and movement are clear, so do its implications take the world toward an open confrontation or conflict -- or conflagration -- against a certain religion.

Gen Dwight Eisenhower's book concerning his WWII experience as supreme allied commander in Europe was titled The Great Crusade. It chronicled his multilateral military campaign against the evil one and the awful manifestations of his self-presented mad struggle Humans claiming to be prophets do have their own mad struggles regardless of their self described cause, purposes.

So who in his right mind would force Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the Gulf states among other Arab nations to choose sides in such a struggle. Have no doubt what Iran would do with its nuclear program if presented absolutely with such a "choice."

This is not the future that would be writ by the events in Ottawa Canada of the past few days - no, not at all.

The current coalition policy of realpolitik diplomacy backed by strategic and selective use of military force does indeed seem the better alternative and the only real and realistic policy.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Publicus

[MAJIC]

It seems there is now one home grown Terrorist to worry about!

Edited October 23, 2014 by MAJIC

[simple1]

Why rescind their passports ? Let them go off to the middle east and fight then bar re-entry if they haven,t already been killed

IS are murdering, raping and visiting other horrors on innocent Muslims and non Muslims. Why would any Western government permit their citizens / residents to depart & join such an evil group to commit war crimes / crimes against humanity.

News reports are saying the murderer was previously a common criminal, seems to be a fairly regular background with these people.

And Western jails are prime recruiting grounds, you would have thought prison Imams would try to put a stop to this.

From reading a few reports the primary issue is self appointed preachers within the prison systems. Also permitting people known to be sympathic to Islamic extremism visitation access to prisoners. Although overdue, I know that Australian authorities are tightening regulations to address these matters, I assume the same process is underway in countries such as Canada.

The current upsurge in domestic terrorism, from many reports, is attributable to Islamic State declaring itself to be a Caliphate; thereby in some peoples thinking Islamic State is a 'true' Islamic entity and utterances should be followed. Nearly all official Islamic representatives declare, on the publc record, Islamic State does not meet Islamic jurisdiction criteria for being recognised as a Caliphate and its commands / call to action are not legitimate.

Edited October 23, 2014 by simple1

[canuckamuck]

If people throughout the world were increasingly catching a "cold" that had them coughing themsevles to death, doctors would treat the cough yes, but diagnose the infection as well. Its a matter of simple intelligent inquiry. Throughout the world today, and now Canada, radical islam is stalking all civilization and products of enlightened society. However, the only thing really being discussed is the "cough;" the circumstances of each new act of dreadful violence- to the point of numbess. Few are willing to actually query and name the core disease that is infecting so many people. Lets be clear, ideology can infect people as surely as a virus; indeed, in many regards it has the same reservoirs, vectors, transmission, communicabilty, and morbidity.

The acts in Canada are but one more manifestation of a real disease, far more deadly than ebola (Ebola may kill humanity but it would not erase us having passed), ravishing the islamic communities of this world. It is actually quite easy to detect the causative agent. If all these jihadists, such as in Canada, had Mein Kampf as their single common denominator you can bet your ass we would be hearing about this book instigating the infectious savagery and sedition sweeping the world. We would know exactly what was causing the "cough." But we do not discuss such things, do we? Thus it is inevitable that the threats posed will increase dramatically as denial fuels blindness.

Yes it is very politically incorrect to talk about the book that is the link between the vast majority of terrorist activity in our world.

It would be beneficial if there was much more exposure to the correlation of the book and the global insurgency that has changed the world. A book that allows for enslavement abuse and murder of all who think differently to the 7th century barbarian, venerated as a perfect man.

As a Canadian I am particularly angry this week. Knowing full well that the freedoms we enjoy (a result of our respectful and peace loving culture) will now be reduced. A penalty we do not deserve, yet for this nation I fully expect the tolerance of the intolerant will continue unchanged.

Civilization is under attack and we are not fighting back where it counts - the source.

We are frogs in a pot beginning to boil.

[Somtamnication]

This says it all. (Credit to Bruce Mackinnon)

[canman]

Why rescind their passports ? Let them go off to the middle east and fight then bar re-entry if they haven,t already been killed

There are dozens of Canadians who travelled overseas to join or support jihadist groups who are now stuck in Syria because the Canadian government cancelled their passports. Have fun getting home punks.

It's being reported that there are also 80-100 others still in Canada who have had their passport revoked. Just think about that for a moment, there are close to 100 members of a death cult walking around Canada why want to leave and join their mates so they can rape and stone woman, crucify teenagers, behead any who oppose them and bury woman and children alive.

I really think they should just let these pricks out and shut the door after them. Then go have a good hard look at their family, friends and associates.

Edited October 24, 2014 by canman

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed. This topic is about Canada.

[canman]

Why rescind their passports ? Let them go off to the middle east and fight then bar re-entry if they haven,t already been killed

IS are murdering, raping and visiting other horrors on innocent Muslims and non Muslims. Why would any Western government permit their citizens / residents to depart & join such an evil group to commit war crimes / crimes against humanity.

News reports are saying the murderer was previously a common criminal, seems to be a fairly regular background with these people.

And Western jails are prime recruiting grounds, you would have thought prison Imams would try to put a stop to this.

From reading a few reports the primary issue is self appointed preachers within the prison systems. Also permitting people known to be sympathic to Islamic extremism visitation access to prisoners. Although overdue, I know that Australian authorities are tightening regulations to address these matters, I assume the same process is underway in countries such as Canada.

The current upsurge in domestic terrorism, from many reports, is attributable to Islamic State declaring itself to be a Caliphate; thereby in some peoples thinking Islamic State is a 'true' Islamic entity and utterances should be followed. Nearly all official Islamic representatives declare, on the publc record, Islamic State does not meet Islamic jurisdiction criteria for being recognised as a Caliphate and its commands / call to action are not legitimate.

Doesn't take much to tip the 'moderates' over the edge, does it.

[Mosha]

On BBC News World just now. Tarek Fatah, founder of the Muslim Canadian Congress said.

"I wish David Cameron and Barack Obama would stop calling Islam the religion of peace."

[canman]

I had two close relatives who were working in the parliment building Wednesday when it was attacked. I followed their tweets and facebook posts until the lock down was lifted. Very proud of these strong young Canadians who never once showed any sign of fear.

Also proud to hear Harpers speech last night, no apolgetic dhimmi statements which you would typically hear coming out of Obama's and Camerons pie holes. He laid it on the table, this was a terrorist attack perpertrated by those who are bringing terror and death to many countries around the world. Canada will not bow down but instead these attacks will strengthen our resolve.

No mention about majority being peacful or religion of peace, no dhimmi statements at all.

[JDGRUEN]

It would seem the order of the day is for the predictable apologists to appear and work to minimize outright slaughter by a radicalized member of a religious cult ... Regardless of his parentage and his assisted radicalization ... he is just to be seen as another mere criminal ... If it were not so tragic the appearance of the excuse makers would be comical...

No one at the thread is an "excuse maker" or is making excuses in any attempt to justify or condone the tragic and traumatic events in Ottawa Canada yesterday or for the loss of life that sadly occurred there.

Canada especially is well aware it has nothing for which it must or should apologize to anyone, to include lunatics from a religion that has (too easily) lost control of itself and of too many of its believers to include converts..

Canadians and the rest of us are tasked with dealing with a new and a harsh reality that is likely to change Canada in unfortunate (but necessary) ways, so stop trying to dogmatically create false devil apologists or excuse makers because they don't exist here or anywhere else.

Those who read with tinted glasses of leftist ideology cannot detect those who make excuses for the actions of radical cult members... Excuse makers for excuse makers - circuitous logic on display.

Edited October 24, 2014 by JDGRUEN

[Publicus]

It would seem the order of the day is for the predictable apologists to appear and work to minimize outright slaughter by a radicalized member of a religious cult ... Regardless of his parentage and his assisted radicalization ... he is just to be seen as another mere criminal ... If it were not so tragic the appearance of the excuse makers would be comical...

No one at the thread is an "excuse maker" or is making excuses in any attempt to justify or condone the tragic and traumatic events in Ottawa Canada yesterday or for the loss of life that sadly occurred there.

Canada especially is well aware it has nothing for which it must or should apologize to anyone, to include lunatics from a religion that has (too easily) lost control of itself and of too many of its believers to include converts..

Canadians and the rest of us are tasked with dealing with a new and a harsh reality that is likely to change Canada in unfortunate (but necessary) ways, so stop trying to dogmatically create false devil apologists or excuse makers because they don't exist here or anywhere else.

Those who read with tinted glasses of leftist ideology cannot detect those who make excuses for the actions of radical cult members... Excuse makers for excuse makers - circuitous logic on display.

I'm not going to argue endlessly with you so you just continue to make your posts as I'll continue to make my posts and ne'er the twain shall meet.

[simple1]

IS are murdering, raping and visiting other horrors on innocent Muslims and non Muslims. Why would any Western government permit their citizens / residents to depart & join such an evil group to commit war crimes / crimes against humanity.

News reports are saying the murderer was previously a common criminal, seems to be a fairly regular background with these people.

And Western jails are prime recruiting grounds, you would have thought prison Imams would try to put a stop to this.

From reading a few reports the primary issue is self appointed preachers within the prison systems. Also permitting people known to be sympathic to Islamic extremism visitation access to prisoners. Although overdue, I know that Australian authorities are tightening regulations to address these matters, I assume the same process is underway in countries such as Canada.

The current upsurge in domestic terrorism, from many reports, is attributable to Islamic State declaring itself to be a Caliphate; thereby in some peoples thinking Islamic State is a 'true' Islamic entity and utterances should be followed. Nearly all official Islamic representatives declare, on the publc record, Islamic State does not meet Islamic jurisdiction criteria for being recognised as a Caliphate and its commands / call to action are not legitimate.

Doesn't take much to tip the 'moderates' over the edge, does it.

Post removed to enable reply.

With the converts and younger people joining IS, who appear to be the majority, were not practising followers of Islam. For whatever personal reasons when discovering / rediscovering Islam they are attracted to those advocating violent extremism. To be honest I do not understand the causal reasons of this phenomenon, nor does it appear do most of the leaders of Western societies on why 'they' find the ideology appealing in the first place.

[Mosha]

^ Tarek Fatah said the kind of people who convert needs looking into

[Ulysses G.]

I think that they hate themselves and just want to make other people as miserable as they are. Jihad gives them an excuse. I always think about the middle class people that joined the Manson family and the SLA in the 60s.

[simondan]

recruiting grounds, you would have thought prison Imams would try to put a stop to this.

Post removed to enable reply.

With the converts and younger people joining IS, who appear to be the majority, were not practising followers of Islam. For whatever personal reasons when discovering / rediscovering Islam they are attracted to those advocating violent extremism. To be honest I do not understand the causal reasons of this phenomenon, nor does it appear do most of the leaders of Western societies on why 'they' find the ideology appealing in the first place.

Easy..they hate the West for a,b,c reasons and in order to strike back at it they join the most anti-western ideology/religion around....Islam.

I think its also the age-old 'angry young man' syndrome. Young guys want to rebel from their moderate parents and find fault with the world - instead of rejecting religion though, these guys get more extreme. Its still rebellion, and it has parallels with kids getting into drugs, free love, rock n roll, all used now and before to say f- you to the world.

Only this one offers young guys foreign travel, AK47s and a righteous reason to kill. And the obligatory 40 virgins in heaven (haha good luck with that one, guys).

Some choose to kill themselves with drugs, some to kill others with guns.

I wonder how many 30+ men are blowing themselves up or doing similar pointless violent acts?

Unfortunately, these young fools are willing putty in the hands of their truly deluded but convinced manipulators.

Im not saying these guys should be treated any less harshly. But as with other forms of youth rebellion, it is essential to include the greater, violence rejecting Islamic community in any response if it is to be effective.

[F430murci]

I think that they hate themselves and just want to make other people as miserable as they are. Jihad gives them an excuse. I always think about the middle class people that joined the Manson family and the SLA in the 60s.

Much truth here.

[samran]

I think that they hate themselves and just want to make other people as miserable as they are. Jihad gives them an excuse. I always think about the middle class people that joined the Manson family and the SLA in the 60s.

Well said.

Only Nixon could have gone to China....as they say.

If I said the same words, what do you reckon the reaction would be?

Edited October 24, 2014 by samran

[Ulysses G.]

I think that they hate themselves and just want to make other people as miserable as they are. Jihad gives them an excuse. I always think about the middle class people that joined the Manson family and the SLA in the 60s.

Well said.

Only Nixon could have gone to China....as they say.

If I said the same words, what do you reckon the reaction would be?

I would agree with you and "like" your post, but, I have to admit, if your comrade said it, I would be a lot more suspicious of how he was going to tie it into letting the bad guys off the hook.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[arjunadawn]

If people throughout the world were increasingly catching a "cold" that had them coughing themsevles to death, doctors would treat the cough yes, but diagnose the infection as well. Its a matter of simple intelligent inquiry. Throughout the world today, and now Canada, radical islam is stalking all civilization and products of enlightened society. However, the only thing really being discussed is the "cough;" the circumstances of each new act of dreadful violence- to the point of numbess. Few are willing to actually query and name the core disease that is infecting so many people. Lets be clear, ideology can infect people as surely as a virus; indeed, in many regards it has the same reservoirs, vectors, transmission, communicabilty, and morbidity.

The acts in Canada are but one more manifestation of a real disease, far more deadly than ebola (Ebola may kill humanity but it would not erase us having passed), ravishing the islamic communities of this world. It is actually quite easy to detect the causative agent. If all these jihadists, such as in Canada, had Mein Kampf as their single common denominator you can bet your ass we would be hearing about this book instigating the infectious savagery and sedition sweeping the world. We would know exactly what was causing the "cough." But we do not discuss such things, do we? Thus it is inevitable that the threats posed will increase dramatically as denial fuels blindness.

What can seem a reasonably argued post leads to what end or purpose? Its direction and movement are clear, so do its implications take the world toward an open confrontation or conflict -- or conflagration -- against a certain religion.

Gen Dwight Eisenhower's book concerning his WWII experience as supreme allied commander in Europe was titled The Great Crusade. It chronicled his multilateral military campaign against the evil one and the awful manifestations of his self-presented mad struggle Humans claiming to be prophets do have their own mad struggles regardless of their self described cause, purposes.

So who in his right mind would force Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the Gulf states among other Arab nations to choose sides in such a struggle. Have no doubt what Iran would do with its nuclear program if presented absolutely with such a "choice."

This is not the future that would be writ by the events in Ottawa Canada of the past few days - no, not at all.

The current coalition policy of realpolitik diplomacy backed by strategic and selective use of military force does indeed seem the better alternative and the only real and realistic policy.

Your response really does capture the essence of the problem, and I partly agree with you. The part that does not agree with you remains a bit unsure as to a final course of action, but as a source of intellectual honesty, one must confess they clearly see the agent causing islamic jihad. I am 100% resolved that denial is as dangerous as the threat (right now the Fall of the West is being hastened not by jihad but by denial). Once having named that which is the core problem of all these disparate terrorist attacks, how do we proceed? I am unsure finaly but a hint that it is a valid line of inquiry will always be gleaned by the response to the query.

If you can ask the question "What is the unifying fuel of islamic jihad?" and the results will be widespread savagery, murder, riots, burning, boycotts, war and rumours of war- then you know for sure that this line of query is the causative agent. Global denial has given sustanence to the jihadis. Even a three legged dog knows when someone is scared. To run from most animals is foolish as the evident fear gives rise to prusuit. It is abundantly clear the West is in full retreat from an ideology that has quickened its pace in response. Should we name it? You presume that in so naming "it" war must follow?

If, "in so naming it war must follow," then war has already come- it widely overlooked by all the cowering and denial in the western world. Before this modern, Third Jihad plays out around the globe one thing will become clear to the generation that follows us: the problem was always apparent. The source was always discernable. The only thing that prevented strong, wise, affirmative resistance to the ghastly Third Islamic Jihad was simply defining that which seeks to destroy you. Most people on earth understand that islam itself is marching upon the world with the passive or tacit approval of its majority; indeed, they inform of this daily. Until the human mind gives language to the dark places it cannot define it; the mind cannot concieve it; and surely, the will cannot battle it.

[pegman]

Canada usually escapes the bad news that plagues its southern border. I hope they get the situation under control.

Not quite. My grandparents were French Canadian....we live about 90 minutes away from the the border in upstate NY. Canada has had it's share of terrorists/separatists movements....

good to be accurate. not as pristine and virgin like as you consider

Previously a safe haven for runaways/terrorists/draft evaders and the usual scum. Their naive generosity is now being repaid.

My people came across the Atlantic from their home in Bedfordshire with the Puritan Passage in 1630. All was well in New England until the domestic terrorists took over 150 years later. They then headed north leaving the scumbags behind.

[Steely Dan]

If people throughout the world were increasingly catching a "cold" that had them coughing themsevles to death, doctors would treat the cough yes, but diagnose the infection as well. Its a matter of simple intelligent inquiry. Throughout the world today, and now Canada, radical islam is stalking all civilization and products of enlightened society. However, the only thing really being discussed is the "cough;" the circumstances of each new act of dreadful violence- to the point of numbess. Few are willing to actually query and name the core disease that is infecting so many people. Lets be clear, ideology can infect people as surely as a virus; indeed, in many regards it has the same reservoirs, vectors, transmission, communicabilty, and morbidity.

The acts in Canada are but one more manifestation of a real disease, far more deadly than ebola (Ebola may kill humanity but it would not erase us having passed), ravishing the islamic communities of this world. It is actually quite easy to detect the causative agent. If all these jihadists, such as in Canada, had Mein Kampf as their single common denominator you can bet your ass we would be hearing about this book instigating the infectious savagery and sedition sweeping the world. We would know exactly what was causing the "cough." But we do not discuss such things, do we? Thus it is inevitable that the threats posed will increase dramatically as denial fuels blindness.

What can seem a reasonably argued post leads to what end or purpose? Its direction and movement are clear, so do its implications take the world toward an open confrontation or conflict -- or conflagration -- against a certain religion.

Gen Dwight Eisenhower's book concerning his WWII experience as supreme allied commander in Europe was titled The Great Crusade. It chronicled his multilateral military campaign against the evil one and the awful manifestations of his self-presented mad struggle Humans claiming to be prophets do have their own mad struggles regardless of their self described cause, purposes.

So who in his right mind would force Saudi Arabia, Jordan, the Gulf states among other Arab nations to choose sides in such a struggle. Have no doubt what Iran would do with its nuclear program if presented absolutely with such a "choice."

This is not the future that would be writ by the events in Ottawa Canada of the past few days - no, not at all.

The current coalition policy of realpolitik diplomacy backed by strategic and selective use of military force does indeed seem the better alternative and the only real and realistic policy.

Your response really does capture the essence of the problem, and I partly agree with you. The part that does not agree with you remains a bit unsure as to a final course of action, but as a source of intellectual honesty, one must confess they clearly see the agent causing islamic jihad. I am 100% resolved that denial is as dangerous as the threat (right now the Fall of the West is being hastened not by jihad but by denial). Once having named that which is the core problem of all these disparate terrorist attacks, how do we proceed? I am unsure finaly but a hint that it is a valid line of inquiry will always be gleaned by the response to the query.

If you can ask the question "What is the unifying fuel of islamic jihad?" and the results will be widespread savagery, murder, riots, burning, boycotts, war and rumours of war- then you know for sure that this line of query is the causative agent. Global denial has given sustanence to the jihadis. Even a three legged dog knows when someone is scared. To run from most animals is foolish as the evident fear gives rise to prusuit. It is abundantly clear the West is in full retreat from an ideology that has quickened its pace in response. Should we name it? You presume that in so naming "it" war must follow?

If, "in so naming it war must follow," then war has already come- it widely overlooked by all the cowering and denial in the western world. Before this modern, Third Jihad plays out around the globe one thing will become clear to the generation that follows us: the problem was always apparent. The source was always discernable. The only thing that prevented strong, wise, affirmative resistance to the ghastly Third Islamic Jihad was simply defining that which seeks to destroy you. Most people on earth understand that islam itself is marching upon the world with the passive or tacit approval of its majority; indeed, they inform of this daily. Until the human mind gives language to the dark places it cannot define it; the mind cannot concieve it; and surely, the will cannot battle it.

Absolutely true in all you write. An analogy would be to deny that the Crusades were a belated response to over two centuries of Moorish conquest, murder, rape, piracy and slave raids. Yet that is what orthodox history tends indeed to do, the starting point is always the crusades and the evils carried out during them, but they are never given historic context. I'm not sure where this denial comes from, but the Canadians seem less in denial than the current UK and US administrations, their actions and language will be interesting to test whether this remains so, or whether they buckle to intimidation as Denmark did.

[arjunadawn]

Absolutely true in all you write. An analogy would be to deny that the Crusades were a belated response to over two centuries of Moorish conquest, murder, rape, piracy and slave raids. Yet that is what orthodox history tends indeed to do, the starting point is always the crusades and the evils carried out during them, but they are never given historic context. I'm not sure where this denial comes from, but the Canadians seem less in denial than the current UK and US administrations, their actions and language will be interesting to test whether this remains so, or whether they buckle to intimidation as Denmark did.

IMO, it is obvious that the denial of today is the product of the same forces that shaped the self-loathing in the west after the "Enlightenment." In those days, as the mind comforted itself in all sorts of sweet and possible things humanist, revision first took place. "Our wretched anscestors must have crusaded in the Levant/Sham because..." "Therefore our crusader fathers could not possibly have been enlightened" With only the Turk and Barbary savagery delicately recalling the reasons for the crusades, the Islamic world retreated into itself to be held in absentia through the Ottomans, the Mandate, the Biploar Cold War, until the present. Apparently no boogey man, the West self assigned blame for the crusades (NOTE: Both sides did plenty wrong but only one side actually instigated all of it).

The West sterilized its role in the crusades because in seeking Enlightenment it wrongly proscribed accountablity it had no authority to assign: as the Reformation and other movements rejected core tenets of the times the baby was thrown out with the bath water and history revised. The Crusades were positively not a result of Christian adventurism, per se (though, for example, the Albigensian crusades of Montfort clearly were(heresy)); they were the result of means of self preservation- the first muslim assaults on Europe proper having begun in the 8th century!

The dark feature of the those days remained aloof, oriental, and abstract- the Mohammadean! Its real fruit only marginaly known in the West (though some American fathers were keenly aware of the islamic threat, curiously). And so as the capacity for reason grew so too did erroneous accountablity. (It is a truism that when observation is extended so too is accountablity, but it may be faulty as well). Humans tend to romantacize the oriental, the primal, the imaginary pristine, previous ages (Minever Cheevy) and so tend to align the world in the image it wishes it to be/was- and still does this! Thus the savages, the innoncent, the unenlightened Mohammadeans, were simply another victim of the West's urge forward,and we must atone.

This feature of the West's self-loathing is hardly difficult to dissect. The fact remains, distance, communication, trade, alliances, and geography has for the most part kept the Turk Caliphate and the West apart since roughly 1571 and then Vienna (until WWI). In this "enlightened" vacuum the West made itself the agressor, and continues to self loathe because of it, and thuse greatly enhance the threat at its door today. Modern Islam as increasingly noted looks exactly the same as 17th, 16th, and 9th century Islam (in total). There is nothing new at all except the vaccilations and self loathing of the West in assigning itself blame for being a victim- this tendency is now evident throughout the Western world in many things.

Its actually breathtakingly sad: one might muse "should Global Islam conquer the world history will judge us..." No! This is wrong. History will not judge. There most surely will be no history with a gobal islamic jihad. Without question, every single art, science, noble prusuit, medicine, statue, theospophical treatise, and literary piece lamenting a heart apart from God will be destroyed, subsumed into something horrific, and any trace of us having passed made ashes.

[Scott]

If you are going to have an off-topic discussion, then it needs to be brought around to the current topic. Otherwise it will be removed.

[Mosha]

I think that they hate themselves and just want to make other people as miserable as they are. Jihad gives them an excuse. I always think about the middle class people that joined the Manson family and the SLA in the 60s.

On the last "My Brother the..." video. It was suggested they don't fit in with their peer group, maybe bullied as kids. The ones in the videos were sandy/ginger haired. Ginger haired kids in my school days tended to be picked on.