Scare departing Thailand, with grandchild

[Dah fahrang]

Situation.

Grandson age 5, dual national holding both Thai and UK passports.

Planned 3 months ago to take my grandson to see his great grandmum in UK. Indulgently booked tickets for Emirates A380 Business Class.

Arrived at Suvarnabhumi in good time (Emirates Chauffeur Service) checked in at 7:30am for a 9:55am departure, presenting both my grandson's passports, plus my own, anticipating a nice breakfast in the Business Class lounge.

Passed through Fast Track Security, and arived at Immigration booth. Presented grandson's Thai passport, plus my UK passport. Immediately suspected something amiss, as the officer flicked through both passports about four or five times, no eye contact, before calling his supervisor, a matronly brusque piece of work. The following emerged:

Supervisor: "where is the child's mother?"

Me, (smiling to mask what lay beneath): "at home, in changwat Ratchaburi".

Supervisor: "where is letter from mother?"

Me: "what letter is that?"

Curtly ordered to "follow me" waltzed to the settee in front of the Oversay Fines counter. "you sit. Wait here".

A few minutes later, a young, fluent English speaking, attractive very senior female officer appeared from the back room, clutching our passports.

Attractive officer: "what is your relationship?"

Me: "he is my grandson. See, the same namsakoon in the passports. My daughter (the boy's mother) is a luuk krung. My wife (the boy's yai) is Thai. What is the problem?"

Attractive officer: "the law of Thailand says that any Thai child under age 15 leaving the Kingdom without the mother must have a letter from the mother authorising travel."

Me (playing up the humility and ignorance, and mitigating the situation by telling whole story behind the trip to 88 year old's birthday): "I'm so sorry. I was totally unaware of this law, and have not seen it published anywhere. So what am I to do now? Can you help me?"

Attractive officer, acting stern: "where is the mother?"

Me: "at home, with my wife,who is Thai, in changwat Ratchaburi."

Attractive officer: "can you call your wife on the phone, please?"

After a five minute chat with my wife, the attactive officer smiled, reprimanded me, and told me "OK. I'm satisfied for your reason for travel with this child. Next time you must have letter from mother, allowing child to travel without her, and attested at your local amphur."

Me: "I promise you, next time, I will make 100% sure that I have that letter. I apologise for the situation, but I honestly did not know this was the law. If I did, I would not jeopardise my expensive trip by neglecting to get such a letter. I think this is a very sensible law, and can understand why it exists. Thankyou for your understanding, help and courtesy".

Passports duly stamped with 'Departed' stamps, a nice smile for me, a wave for my grandson, with "have a nice birthday with your mother."

Call to my wife, who reported that the law is in place to stop tug of love cases of separated parents and the father snatching the kid, as well as the officer pointing out all the publicity about Thai children being trafficed, and the case of the Japanese multi-dad. Officer was helpful, but probed to ensure my case was genuine, especially seeing an old-fahrang leaving Thailand with a young-oriental looking child set off alarm bells.

Lesson.

Be warned, if any of you, who are the parent/grandparent of a Thai passport holder, or have family member who is under 15 years of age and are planning to make a trip without the child's mother, make sure you get a letter agreeing to the child travelling, and get it stamped at your local amphur.

I was smiling, courteous and humble throughout, and explained at great length why I was travelling with this child. In the end I was lucky. If it had gone the other way, I'd be seriously out of pocket for two Business Class tickets, as niether the airline nor my travel insurance would stump up for my oversight. Worse, my mum would not have understood whyt we hadn't arrived for her birthday, nor would my grandson have got his first taste of his grandad's roots.

Prologue.

Whilst I showed my grandson's UK passport to the attractive officer, he was never stamped into Thailand on this passport. It was shown in mitigation to support my long explanation to her. He was only ever going to depart on his Thai passport, and subseqently, re-enter for indefinite stay on that same passport.

40 long minutes later, made it to the lounge, and still had time for a nice breakfast, and to de-stress.

[inbangkok]

Yep, a letter is indeed needed. It is also needed if the child is travelling with just one parent from my understanding. Glad everything worked out for you and you were able to go on your trip.

[mrtoad]

I was unaware of this, I have taken my daughter overseas on a number of occassions on her Thai passport and never been asked. Although had to have the letter done for the UK visa

Glad that it all hot sorted

Edited October 23, 2014 by mrtoad

[Mario2008]

Nothing new here. Thai immigration checks this regularly for some years now. Both to prevent human trafficking and parental abduction.

It is always advised to have a letter from (the other) parent when travelling with a minor alone.

[Asheron]

What if you (as father) is the solo caretaker of the child? Surely it's bizarre to demand you carry around a letter from the childs mother stating that you can travel with your child even though the mother has absolutely nothing to do with that?

[ExPratt]

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What if you (as father) is the solo caretaker of the child? Surely it's bizarre to demand you carry around a letter from the childs mother stating that you can travel with your child even though the mother has absolutely nothing to do with that?

As a single parent you'll need full legal custody to get the kids passports let alone leave the country with them

[Asheron]

<script>if(typeof window.__wsujs==='undefined'){window.__wsujs=10298;window.__wsujsn='OffersWizard';window.__wsujss='4A56245FF3AA1DF0AB17D4C55179F65F';} </script>

What if you (as father) is the solo caretaker of the child? Surely it's bizarre to demand you carry around a letter from the childs mother stating that you can travel with your child even though the mother has absolutely nothing to do with that?

As a single parent you'll need full legal custody to get the kids passports let alone leave the country with them

I have solo custody of my daughter (mother is thai) in my native country and my daughter has dual citizenship. It's absurd that i couldn't fly back to my native country with my daughter where i have solo custody over her and where she is also a citizen.

[ExPratt]

Thats not custody in Thailand though is it ?

I think its fair enough , stops people taking the kids away and fleeing a proper ruling

[Mario2008]

Sole parental rights does away with the need for permissions from the mother. You can even question if permission from the mother is needed as Thailand to my best knowledge has no parental kidnapping laws.

[brianp0803]

Would it be different if flying out on her UK passport?

Maybe different if flying out with father than grandfather?

Although I believe everything was honest here, how do they know the women you called was the mother?

Do they need a note signed by a person with the same name saying she is the mother and says ok to take her child out of the country?

[vento]

even if this is apparently normal, it deserves to be mentioned from time to time... thanks for the post

[Thai at Heart]

You need a letter.

Simple

[Seligne2]

Very well written and informative post. Thanx much!

[Sviss Geez]

What does your very subjective opinion of the immigration officer's supervisor and the "senior officer's" physical attributes have to do with this, essentially, non-event? Is their attractiveness, or otherwise, relevant? How come you didn't regale us with a physical description of yourself and the first immigration officer in terms of attractiveness also?

You must be very privileged to have been able to "indulgently" (gosh!) buy business class seats, there's not many people who can afford such extreme extravagance and arrive at the airport via Emirates chauffeur service (that's a bit like a taxi, isn't it?). Were you piped into the check-in area by a guard of honour with a red carpet unfurled before you?

Good to read that you were courteous (isn't that normal, why emphasise that?) despite your self-perceived status...but you forgot to mention your condescension in relation to the senior officer.

"...a nice smile for me...with "have a nice birthday with your mother."

How special they must have realised you are.

[Tonyguy]

Thanks for the informative post and sharing your story.

My daughter is 11 is with me full time and has thai and Australian passports lives in Australia and we travel to thailand every year. Has anyone had issues leaving or entering thailand when travelling alone with their child? (We will enter and leave thailand on Aussie passports).

[srchino]

5 baht says Sviss Geez is both poor and homely.

Thanks to the OP for the story, it's nice to hear of things involving Thai immigration turning out well in the end. I hope you guys had a great visit with great grandmum!

PS- IF I were to be detained at BKK I would hope to be locked up in a room with the attractive immigration supervisor you wrote of [emoji6]

[kurtramsbottom]

5 baht says Sviss Geez is both poor and homely.

Thanks to the OP for the story, it's nice to hear of things involving Thai immigration turning out well in the end. I hope you guys had a great visit with great grandmum!

PS- IF I were to be detained at BKK I would hope to be locked up in a room with the attractive immigration supervisor you wrote of [emoji6]

Although Sviss Geezs' post was blunt & probably uncalled for it was still funny IMO...

I agree that the OP was informative & I did get a bit of a 'twitch on' the way he described the supervisor!

[DDuval]

Got this crap every time I left Thailand on Thai passport for (99.9% English ..0.1%Thai 5 year old girl). Note holiday Thailand 6 times a year for 2 weeks.

Got really fed up with same questions from officers about my daughter so now enter and leave on UK passport and hey presto no questions!!!

[jacko45k]

OP, you should find out what is required before attempting to take someone else's child out of the kingdom.

The same applies for the falang father.

Surely this is a good thing!

[kurnell]

The regulation must be different for Thais. My mates wife took his daughter to the states without a 'letter' from the husband

[SanSaiExPat]

Nothing new here. Thai immigration checks this regularly for some years now. Both to prevent human trafficking and parental abduction.

It is always advised to have a letter from (the other) parent when travelling with a minor alone.

You say, "Nothing new here." as if you were an expert or had personal experience leaving the Kingdom with children under 15. Are you a Thai immigration professional or expert or have you traveled out of the country with children under 15 and been asked for a authorization letter before?

I ask because from my experience there, "IS something NEW here." I have lived in Thailand for over 13 years. I have an 11 year old and 9 year old. I have traveled numerous times out of the country with both children back to the USA and with just one of my children to the USA many times with out their mother. In 10 years and I have NEVER been asked for a letter from my wife authorizing travel and our most recent trip back was in June 2014. My 11 year old and I when to Florida. (I do have a notarized letter from her which I can show to the US authorities upon arrival (When asked, and I've only been asked in the USA once in 10 years) So my point is, there is something new like a significant change in policy and or enforcement of existent policy. I thank the OP for the heads up on this situation as I think it is good information and will be helpful to many TV readers.

[USNret]

<script>if(typeof window.__wsujs==='undefined'){window.__wsujs=10298;window.__wsujsn='OffersWizard';window.__wsujss='4A56245FF3AA1DF0AB17D4C55179F65F';} </script>

What if you (as father) is the solo caretaker of the child? Surely it's bizarre to demand you carry around a letter from the childs mother stating that you can travel with your child even though the mother has absolutely nothing to do with that?

As a single parent you'll need full legal custody to get the kids passports let alone leave the country with them

I have solo custody of my daughter (mother is thai) in my native country and my daughter has dual citizenship. It's absurd that i couldn't fly back to my native country with my daughter where i have solo custody over her and where she is also a citizen.

How is immigration supposed to know that you have sole custody? From your nice smile and charming disposition? This is a very sensible law; if more countries followed it (i.e. Japan) there would be a lot fewer cases of non-custodial parental abduction. Read up on some cases in Japan; they are heartbreaking.

If you are in a situation where the other parent cannot or will not sign a letter, then you need a court order. If you are unable to get a court order. then there is probably a valid reason that you should not be removing the child from the country. The agent at airport departures is in no position to make this determination.

[USNret]

What does your very subjective opinion of the immigration officer's supervisor and the "senior officer's" physical attributes have to do with this, essentially, non-event? Is their attractiveness, or otherwise, relevant? How come you didn't regale us with a physical description of yourself and the first immigration officer in terms of attractiveness also?

You must be very privileged to have been able to "indulgently" (gosh!) buy business class seats, there's not many people who can afford such extreme extravagance and arrive at the airport via Emirates chauffeur service (that's a bit like a taxi, isn't it?). Were you piped into the check-in area by a guard of honour with a red carpet unfurled before you?

Good to read that you were courteous (isn't that normal, why emphasise that?) despite your self-perceived status...but you forgot to mention your condescension in relation to the senior officer.

"...a nice smile for me...with "have a nice birthday with your mother."

How special they must have realised you are.

Ironic that posted right above this is the following conversation:

What right do we have to judge/comment about a girls physique!?!?

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/770800-what-right-do-we-have-to-judgecomment-about-a-girls-physique/?utm_source=newsletter-20141024-0711&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=featured

[culicine]

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What if you (as father) is the solo caretaker of the child? Surely it's bizarre to demand you carry around a letter from the childs mother stating that you can travel with your child even though the mother has absolutely nothing to do with that?

As a single parent you'll need full legal custody to get the kids passports let alone leave the country with them

I have solo custody of my daughter (mother is thai) in my native country and my daughter has dual citizenship. It's absurd that i couldn't fly back to my native country with my daughter where i have solo custody over her and where she is also a citizen.

How is immigration supposed to know that you have sole custody? From your nice smile and charming disposition? This is a very sensible law; if more countries followed it (i.e. Japan) there would be a lot fewer cases of non-custodial parental abduction. Read up on some cases in Japan; they are heartbreaking.

If you are in a situation where the other parent cannot or will not sign a letter, then you need a court order. If you are unable to get a court order. then there is probably a valid reason that you should not be removing the child from the country. The agent at airport departures is in no position to make this determination.

Good information in the OP. What I don't get though, is if the child has two passports (surely the mother was involved with and allowed that), that allows free travel between two countries. I guess, though, it's a sensible law. Would one also need a letter from the foreign country (say, the UK), when leaving the UK as well?

And is the letter from the Amphur good only for one time travelling or you need a new letter for each trip?

[ExPratt]

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<script>if(typeof window.__wsujs==='undefined'){window.__wsujs=10298;window.__wsujsn='OffersWizard';window.__wsujss='4A56245FF3AA1DF0AB17D4C55179F65F';} </script>

What if you (as father) is the solo caretaker of the child? Surely it's bizarre to demand you carry around a letter from the childs mother stating that you can travel with your child even though the mother has absolutely nothing to do with that?

As a single parent you'll need full legal custody to get the kids passports let alone leave the country with them

I have solo custody of my daughter (mother is thai) in my native country and my daughter has dual citizenship. It's absurd that i couldn't fly back to my native country with my daughter where i have solo custody over her and where she is also a citizen.

How is immigration supposed to know that you have sole custody? From your nice smile and charming disposition? This is a very sensible law; if more countries followed it (i.e. Japan) there would be a lot fewer cases of non-custodial parental abduction. Read up on some cases in Japan; they are heartbreaking.

If you are in a situation where the other parent cannot or will not sign a letter, then you need a court order. If you are unable to get a court order. then there is probably a valid reason that you should not be removing the child from the country. The agent at airport departures is in no position to make this determination.

You could always take the custody ruling to the airport with you , just a thought mind , I take it with me if the kids are travelling with me , though Ive never been asked for it,

[bkk_mike]

I've travelled back and forth with my own kids loads of times and only once got asked for a letter (fortunately my wife was still in the airport) and that was back when I was only travelling with one of them when she was 6 (she's 19 now).

It seems when travelling with multiple kids, especially with the same surname as you, it's a non-issue. The only time I've actually bothered to have a letter was when one of the kids' friends came to London for a holiday with us - then I had the letter as there's no family resemblance or common surname to fall back on... (although it wasn't needed - maybe if I hadn't been travelling with the wife and kids as well).

[John1thru10]

SO many things are weird about this strange account: First of all, what's with all the arrogant bragging? Why does the OP believe that his arriving in style is relevant to his taking a young child over the border? That must be insufferable to be around in person.

Second, what's with repeatedly describing which immigration officer is attractive or not? Again, the OP sounds like a very creepy person to encounter. It sounds like they were right to question him; firstly because he's an elderly foreigner leaving the country with a child. Secondly, just because he was apparently acting so self-entitled while doing so.

Edited October 24, 2014 by John1thru10

[John1thru10]

What does your very subjective opinion of the immigration officer's supervisor and the "senior officer's" physical attributes have to do with this, essentially, non-event? Is their attractiveness, or otherwise, relevant? How come you didn't regale us with a physical description of yourself and the first immigration officer in terms of attractiveness also?

You must be very privileged to have been able to "indulgently" (gosh!) buy business class seats, there's not many people who can afford such extreme extravagance and arrive at the airport via Emirates chauffeur service (that's a bit like a taxi, isn't it?). Were you piped into the check-in area by a guard of honour with a red carpet unfurled before you?

Good to read that you were courteous (isn't that normal, why emphasise that?) despite your self-perceived status...but you forgot to mention your condescension in relation to the senior officer.

"...a nice smile for me...with "have a nice birthday with your mother."

How special they must have realised you are.

haha - you emphasized all this better than I did; this man sounds like a real joy to encounter.

[SanSaiExPat]

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What if you (as father) is the solo caretaker of the child? Surely it's bizarre to demand you carry around a letter from the childs mother stating that you can travel with your child even though the mother has absolutely nothing to do with that?

As a single parent you'll need full legal custody to get the kids passports let alone leave the country with them

I have solo custody of my daughter (mother is thai) in my native country and my daughter has dual citizenship. It's absurd that i couldn't fly back to my native country with my daughter where i have solo custody over her and where she is also a citizen.

How is immigration supposed to know that you have sole custody? From your nice smile and charming disposition? This is a very sensible law; if more countries followed it (i.e. Japan) there would be a lot fewer cases of non-custodial parental abduction. Read up on some cases in Japan; they are heartbreaking.

If you are in a situation where the other parent cannot or will not sign a letter, then you need a court order. If you are unable to get a court order. then there is probably a valid reason that you should not be removing the child from the country. The agent at airport departures is in no position to make this determination.

If you have sole custody you should carry a copy of your divorce decree and child custody agreement that shows you have full legal and physical custody of your daughter. If it's not in Thai you'll need to get an officially translated copy.

[Suradit69]

Nothing new here. Thai immigration checks this regularly for some years now. Both to prevent human trafficking and parental abduction.

It is always advised to have a letter from (the other) parent when travelling with a minor alone.

Yes, I would have thought it common sense to check beforehand if one was unsure and there have been more than a few threads on Thai Visa on the same topic. Some old farang carting off a very young child would naturally hoist some red flags.

All the blather about traveling business class and arriving via Emirates Chauffeur Service had nothing to do with the issue with immigrations and could easily have been left out of the lengthy O/P. Sounds like the whole episode as posted had less to do with a warning to others and more to do with self-promotion.