Scare departing Thailand, with grandchild

[Baerboxer]

Would it be different if flying out on her UK passport?

Maybe different if flying out with father than grandfather?

Although I believe everything was honest here, how do they know the women you called was the mother?

Do they need a note signed by a person with the same name saying she is the mother and says ok to take her child out of the country?

Many countries require a letter from the non traveling parent if the child is traveling with just one parent.

I had to do several letters for my ex-wife (English) as she traveled a lot with my then young daughter.

What is good is to see the immigration officers taking this seriously and then being pragmatic in satisfying themselves all is above board. In many countries they wouldn't bother to do this. You would simply be told to go away and come back with the letter - your problem.

[chakatee]

Sorry to stay on topic but is there any requirements to such letter?

- content?

- validity period?

Any standard letters available or write just any text (in Thai?) as one would deem to be appropriate?

[Mario2008]

I would write in English, for international use. Not only Thailand might check.

Basically the letter would say that you have permission to travel abroad with the child, in which a general permission can be given to travel or a very specific one. (Like from 10 November till 10 December). In that case it cannot be used for other travels. Of course clearly identifying the child and the parent (or other person) who is allowed to travel with the child.

It would need to be dated and with a signed copy of the ID-card (and the birth certificate perhaps). You can have the letter stamped at the amphur.

[samran]

I've travelled with my daughter a few times. We both have Thai and australian passports.

I've never been asked but I have always made sure to carry a letter from my wife stating our travel dates and her contact details.

[mgjackson69]

I believe the OP has some writing skills. His use of detail has set the stage and spun out the tale.

- The protagonist is a person of means...the masses like stories about the rich and famous. But just slightly clueless (does not know about the permission letter requirement)...he is a bit human also.

- Sympathy for the protagonist...."Scare departing Thailand"; a person of means should not have to endure such inconveniences

- After the initial contact with an unpleasant antagonist, the attractive secondary hero shows up to help our main character

- All ends well, after a "close call"

As to the requirement of the permission letter...off and on through the years, there have been any number of stories about a parent "stealing" a child and taking them to a different country, surely enough to make people aware of the issue. As others have mentioned, an "old man farang" travelling with an Asian child, leaving Thailand, would, rightly or wrongly, raise some suspicion.

I have been aware of this requirement for some time; with the caveat that it was of interest to me personally, due to my situation on the USA side for the past several years (divorced with a minor child). From that I knew that USA has this requirement, and in turn I paid attention to the similar requirement on the Thai side.

Fortunately for the OP, he was able to get the situation resolved without major inconvenience.

The bottom line is: one needs to think outside of their personal box and consider the larger picture; and be aware of the rules and regulations that apply to your particular circumstances.

[Dah fahrang]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

What does your very subjective opinion of the immigration officer's supervisor and the "senior officer's" physical attributes have to do with this, essentially, non-event? Is their attractiveness, or otherwise, relevant? How come you didn't regale us with a physical description of yourself and the first immigration officer in terms of attractiveness also?

You must be very privileged to have been able to "indulgently" (gosh!) buy business class seats, there's not many people who can afford such extreme extravagance and arrive at the airport via Emirates chauffeur service (that's a bit like a taxi, isn't it?). Were you piped into the check-in area by a guard of honour with a red carpet unfurled before you?

Good to read that you were courteous (isn't that normal, why emphasise that?) despite your self-perceived status...but you forgot to mention your condescension in relation to the senior officer.

"...a nice smile for me...with "have a nice birthday with your mother."

How special they must have realised you are.

haha - you emphasized all this better than I did; this man sounds like a real joy to encounter.

I may or may not be a joy to encounter. Should we ever do so, maybe THAT would be the apropriate time to make such a judgement.

I did declare the trip to be an indulgence: I meant that. I have recently undergone a course of radiation and chemo therapy for a tonsillar cancer, and I'm in remission. The indulgence on my part was a from the realisation that life is short, and to spend what I've worked hard to save, as I can't take it with me when I snuff it. From the onset, I determined to enjoy every aspect of this trip, both as my mother is no "spring chicken" (oops, I've made a descriptive judgeement which may offend you) and because I do not know the medium term prognosis of my own condition.

Whilst I tried to inject my (hopefully) informative post with a spot of humour, that seems to have fallen flat on its face as far as you two are concerned.

[Dah fahrang]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Would it be different if flying out on her UK passport?

Maybe different if flying out with father than grandfather?

Although I believe everything was honest here, how do they know the women you called was the mother?

Do they need a note signed by a person with the same name saying she is the mother and says ok to take her child out of the country?

Many countries require a letter from the non traveling parent if the child is traveling with just one parent.

I had to do several letters for my ex-wife (English) as she traveled a lot with my then young daughter.

What is good is to see the immigration officers taking this seriously and then being pragmatic in satisfying themselves all is above board. In many countries they wouldn't bother to do this. You would simply be told to go away and come back with the letter - your problem.

Your'e right. The officer didn't know the person I called was related. However, during the call with the officer, my wife (grandmother of the child) offered both her, and the child's mother's Thai Identity Card numbers for verification of name and address. The officer declined this gesture, perhaps feeling satisfied that the gesture had been made in the first place.

I was heartened by the Immigration Officer's stance on this, and told her so. She went to considerable effort to substantiate my story, and I had the feeling throughout that she wanted the outcome to fall in my favour. She did point out that if it went wrong, her neck would be on the block. I agree, in many countries, (and, in perhaps in the hands of a different officer in Thailand), I'd have been sent away to get a letter.

as a footnote: we arrived in the UK showing grandson and my UK passports. No questions asked. And departing UK - well, it's impossible to find an Immigration Officer at Manchester departures!!!!!

[Jaggg88]

Got this crap every time I left Thailand on Thai passport for (99.9% English ..0.1%Thai 5 year old girl). Note holiday Thailand 6 times a year for 2 weeks.

Got really fed up with same questions from officers about my daughter so now enter and leave on UK passport and hey presto no questions!!!

This was my first thought. Dual nationality just present the UK passport - kids under 14 don't need visa and don't get fined for overstay. Thai authorities have no right to stop an innocent foreign citizen from returning home. My wife travels all the time on her her own with our son (Thai passports) and never gets asked for a letter so dual standards operating here.

[Dah fahrang]

Got this crap every time I left Thailand on Thai passport for (99.9% English ..0.1%Thai 5 year old girl). Note holiday Thailand 6 times a year for 2 weeks.

Got really fed up with same questions from officers about my daughter so now enter and leave on UK passport and hey presto no questions!!!

This was my first thought. Dual nationality just present the UK passport - kids under 14 don't need visa and don't get fined for overstay. Thai authorities have no right to stop an innocent foreign citizen from returning home. My wife travels all the time on her her own with our son (Thai passports) and never gets asked for a letter so dual standards operating here.

Jagg88: my grandson lives here, in Thailand, as do I. The visit was to the UK and then back to Thailand. His British passport does not have any Thai entry stamp in it - so presenting his UK passport would have been futile, or perhaps even brought about deeper anguish. Were he to have entered Thailand on his UK passport on our return, then he would be subject to limitation/extension on his stay - the same as for me, which is not something I would wish upon him.

I note your point about your missus travelling with your son on Thai passports, without a consent letter from you. Dual standards may be operating here, or, possibly as I was an old fahrang male travelling with an obviously Oriental looking child, and happened to pass the Immigration Booth manned by a particularly diligent officer.

[John1thru10]

What does your very subjective opinion of the immigration officer's supervisor and the "senior officer's" physical attributes have to do with this, essentially, non-event? Is their attractiveness, or otherwise, relevant? How come you didn't regale us with a physical description of yourself and the first immigration officer in terms of attractiveness also?

You must be very privileged to have been able to "indulgently" (gosh!) buy business class seats, there's not many people who can afford such extreme extravagance and arrive at the airport via Emirates chauffeur service (that's a bit like a taxi, isn't it?). Were you piped into the check-in area by a guard of honour with a red carpet unfurled before you?

Good to read that you were courteous (isn't that normal, why emphasise that?) despite your self-perceived status...but you forgot to mention your condescension in relation to the senior officer.

"...a nice smile for me...with "have a nice birthday with your mother."

How special they must have realised you are.

haha - you emphasized all this better than I did; this man sounds like a real joy to encounter.

I may or may not be a joy to encounter. Should we ever do so, maybe THAT would be the apropriate time to make such a judgement.

I did declare the trip to be an indulgence: I meant that. I have recently undergone a course of radiation and chemo therapy for a tonsillar cancer, and I'm in remission. The indulgence on my part was a from the realisation that life is short, and to spend what I've worked hard to save, as I can't take it with me when I snuff it. From the onset, I determined to enjoy every aspect of this trip, both as my mother is no "spring chicken" (oops, I've made a descriptive judgeement which may offend you) and because I do not know the medium term prognosis of my own condition.

Whilst I tried to inject my (hopefully) informative post with a spot of humour, that seems to have fallen flat on its face as far as you two are concerned.

I'm very sorry to hear about your having had a medical problem (sincerely). It stands to reason that an older foreigner cannot simply leave Thailand with an otherwise unaccompanied child, unquestioned. And, I'm glad that worked out. The lengthy descriptions of expense, etc, I don't find the humor, really. I have a dear friend here, a Thai person, who is suffering from years of illness, and can't possibly begin to afford medications, let alone fly around the world. That person is 21 years old.

I hope your own health improves soon, and that all your years ahead are of wonderment and peace.

Edited October 24, 2014 by John1thru10

[Mudcrab]

Got this crap every time I left Thailand on Thai passport for (99.9% English ..0.1%Thai 5 year old girl). Note holiday Thailand 6 times a year for 2 weeks.

Got really fed up with same questions from officers about my daughter so now enter and leave on UK passport and hey presto no questions!!!

This was my first thought. Dual nationality just present the UK passport - kids under 14 don't need visa and don't get fined for overstay. Thai authorities have no right to stop an innocent foreign citizen from returning home. My wife travels all the time on her her own with our son (Thai passports) and never gets asked for a letter so dual standards operating here.

Jagg88: my grandson lives here, in Thailand, as do I. The visit was to the UK and then back to Thailand. His British passport does not have any Thai entry stamp in it - so presenting his UK passport would have been futile, or perhaps even brought about deeper anguish. Were he to have entered Thailand on his UK passport on our return, then he would be subject to limitation/extension on his stay - the same as for me, which is not something I would wish upon him.

I note your point about your missus travelling with your son on Thai passports, without a consent letter from you. Dual standards may be operating here, or, possibly as I was an old fahrang male travelling with an obviously Oriental looking child, and happened to pass the Immigration Booth manned by a particularly diligent officer.

Glad it all worked out for you and your grandson old mate.

Seems to me the officials were doing the right thing in the bigger picture. We often read about farang paedophiles and their carryings on in SE Asia. Good to see them looking out for the most vulnerable - young people - in society.

Hope both Great Grandmum and Great Grandson had a wonderful time together and shared the joy that so many of us never had the opportunity to do.

Take no notice of the knockers criticising you for flying business class or commenting on the young filly who worked for immigration - it just ain't worth it.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Mudcrab

[lioness]

Sviss Geez

You mention condescension, which is what your post smacked off. What can't you afford business class? each to their own, and no business of yours how he travels.

The post was informative, and well written, the guy was polite, maybe you could learn from him.

[brianp0803]

I would write in English, for international use. Not only Thailand might check.

Basically the letter would say that you have permission to travel abroad with the child, in which a general permission can be given to travel or a very specific one. (Like from 10 November till 10 December). In that case it cannot be used for other travels. Of course clearly identifying the child and the parent (or other person) who is allowed to travel with the child.

It would need to be dated and with a signed copy of the ID-card (and the birth certificate perhaps). You can have the letter stamped at the amphur.

I am glad this legimite travel worked out.

From the discussion there seems inconsistencies.

I like the idea of a dated letter stamped by the amphur, but probably not required.

Dual passport means at some point in time the couple had a good relationship.

After breaking up could a spouse ask a UK passport be canceled?

If there was a recent entry stamp in a foreign passport, then departing Thailand is normal.

Is a letter proposed to be from the other spouse sufficient?

Dates of travel required.?

Proof of the author?

If an Asian man tried to take a minor Asian child outside the country would he be questioned?

Many times copies of my passport are made by banks.i always sign and date across my passport to make sure it can't be used again for another purpose.

Do all countries require both parents to get a passport for their child?

I knew someone was afraid her x- husband from Iran would abduct the children she had sole custody.

Not sure if they already had passports already but we're no longer on good terms.

Some countries men have rights and women have none.

99% or more is probably legitimate travel. How difficult do they need to make things due to the horrible consequences of the few that aren't legitimate?

[moe666]

If Iwanted to travel with my grand children in the states I better have a notarized letter from their parents, asked for or not.

[stevenl]

The important thing here is the information from the OP, not his personality.

And the information should be known but does not get much attention, so good the OP brought it under the attention again here.

[EmptyHead]

Same thing happened to my GF with our daughter. Our daughter looks like a farang 100% (blonde hair, really white skin).

My GF went through the Thai section with our kid and i went through the foreigner one.

She passed through first and was stopped. It looked like a Thai was leaving with a farang kid.

They wouldn't believe she was her mother, especially since our kid has my surname and my GF doesn't (we aren't married yet).

But once they saw me and i showed them my passport with the same surname as daughter, all was well again. Everyone was laughing.

She has been mistaken as the maid a few times out in the street in BKK.

I think this is good law; you would be glad of it if someone kidknapped you child and tried to leave the country.

It could be unfair in "tug of love" situations though. Why should a foreign parent need Thai consent to take his kid out of the country? (even if Thai consent comes from the mother)

Edited October 25, 2014 by EmptyHead

[Dah fahrang]

I would write in English, for international use. Not only Thailand might check.

Basically the letter would say that you have permission to travel abroad with the child, in which a general permission can be given to travel or a very specific one. (Like from 10 November till 10 December). In that case it cannot be used for other travels. Of course clearly identifying the child and the parent (or other person) who is allowed to travel with the child.

It would need to be dated and with a signed copy of the ID-card (and the birth certificate perhaps). You can have the letter stamped at the amphur.

I am glad this legimite travel worked out.

Thank you. It was quite a relief to get through this.

From the discussion there seems inconsistencies.

I like the idea of a dated letter stamped by the amphur, but probably not required.

Be careful. This is what I failed to present to Immigration on departure. As a consequence, the situation described occurred. Luckily, the phone call to my wife seemed to remove this requirement by offering ID card numbers for a check on the National database.

Dual passport means at some point in time the couple had a good relationship.

After breaking up could a spouse ask a UK passport be canceled?

I think not. Once Nationality is granted, it cannot so easily (if at all) be removed. The possibilty of statelessness looms.

If there was a recent entry stamp in a foreign passport, then departing Thailand is normal.

Yes, But in my case, there was no such entry in the 'foreign' passport. The child's UK passport was obtained in Vietnam, his birthplace, and was renewed on his fifth birthday via Trendy Towers in Bangkok. As he is Thai, living for the foreseeable future in Thailand as a Thai, it was/is important for himto always enter and leave as a Thai, thereby ensuring no limitation on his stay.

Is a letter proposed to be from the other spouse sufficient?

Dates of travel required.?

Proof of the author?

Would presume so, but the latter point (proof of author) is the crux here. Without adequate proof, the letter could be written by the next door neighbour's cat. That is why Immigration said to me, and repeated in the phone call with my wife, that the letter must be attested by the amphur.

If an Asian man tried to take a minor Asian child outside the country would he be questioned?

Very much so. Part of the reason for the required letter is to stop 'child snatching' by estranged parents. My daughter was required to furnish proof of estrangement from my grandson's father before either Thai or UK passports could be renewed.

As an side, while Iwas undergoing my "scare" with Immigration, a Japanese woman travelling singly, with a child was being given her own ordeal by Thai Immigration. She was reduced to tears.

Many times copies of my passport are made by banks.i always sign and date across my passport to make sure it can't be used again for another purpose.

I do likewise. It's all to easy to momentarily forget that the document being copied has a value (to you, but also to others of ill-intent).

Do all countries require both parents to get a passport for their child?

Dunno. But see above comment. Thailand DEFINITELY requires both parents to be present when the passport application is made for the child, or, in the case of divorce/legal separation/estrangement EVIDENCE of that status of the end of the realtionship.

I knew someone was afraid her x- husband from Iran would abduct the children she had sole custody.

Not sure if they already had passports already but we're no longer on good terms.

Some countries men have rights and women have none.

99% or more is probably legitimate travel. How difficult do they need to make things due to the horrible consequences of the few that aren't legitimate?

Agree, from first hand experience. Hence my original post, to warn others that this is the situation, and they may not be so lucky.

Edited October 25, 2014 by ubonjoe
moved reply from quoted text

[maidee]

if the thai mother "kidnappes" the children from your home country to thailand, how much help will you get on the thai side to ever see them back you guess ?

[Showbags]

But same with anything in los...if they could not be bothered...so be it.

Travelled several times, never a questioned asked.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Showbags