Parents say their sons are innocent but beaten to confess

[jdinasia]

My being a parent would lead me to want many things. Including not having a bunch of people who have nothing to do with what happened or what will happen scrolling through pictures of my brutally murderer child and commenting on it via social media.

I would not want these conspiracy theorists trying to muddy the water. The sheer number of theories brought forward by people who are relying on social media could slow down the case and thus delaying justice.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

[DarloKnight]

Are u a parent JTJ. Can u understand that line of thinking...

I am not a parent. I do not need to be a parent to understand the mind of a parent.

I do not need to be a murderer to understand that murder is abhorrent and wrong. Regardless of the fact that it is unlawful.

To be a human being is to have empathy for those that are different to ourselves.

You are so wrong to bring a child into the world to love and care for them to put another persons life before yours to want to see them grow up like I said before if my daughter had been murdered I would want the truth and I would follow every theory till I got this.

You do not know what it is like to love another human being more than life.

[Number 3]

My being a parent would lead me to want many things. Including not having a bunch of people who have nothing to do with what happened or what will happen scrolling through pictures of my brutally murderer child and commenting on it via social media.

I would not want these conspiracy theorists trying to muddy the water. The sheer number of theories brought forward by people who are relying on social media could slow down the case and thus delaying justice.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

I would want the world and his dogs all over it.

Unless justice was at hand then of course not. In this instance I can honestly say I would be thanking all of those who care enough to give their time to my kid. In fact I wouldn't know how to thank them enough.

[Benmart]

The only thing I am certain of is that two people were murdered. Other than that, I know nothing since I wasn't there when it occurred.

On the other hand, others seem to have access to information that I don't have or are gifted with powers that enable them to see the past, present and future.

[TTom911]

An official written statement from the UK government, and given the necessity for diplomatic language the message can hardly be clearer...:

...." How confident is the FCO that those responsible for the killings will be brought to justice?

We want to see the perpetrators of this crime brought to justice and we have asked the Thai authorities to keep our Embassy in Bangkok closely informed on their investigation. The British government cannot interfere in Thailand’s judicial proceedings, just as other governments are unable to interfere in our own judicial processes.

That said, we are very concerned by the allegations of corruption and mistreatment of the suspects and it is very important that whoever committed these murders is brought to justice. We call for the investigation to be conducted in a fair and transparent way, in line with international standards."....

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/foreign_commonwealth_office_answer_our_10_questions_on_the_hannah_witheridge_case_1_3820462

[DarloKnight]

My being a parent would lead me to want many things. Including not having a bunch of people who have nothing to do with what happened or what will happen scrolling through pictures of my brutally murderer child and commenting on it via social media.

I would not want these conspiracy theorists trying to muddy the water. The sheer number of theories brought forward by people who are relying on social media could slow down the case and thus delaying justice.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

I could tell by your comments you were not. That aside I agree only on one point I would not want pictures of my child brutally murdered on the internet.

But I would want the truth at any cost, any new information whether theory or not investigate.

Unconditional love for the life I carried and brought into this world I would seek justice but would want it to be 100% accurate.

[Number 3]

The only thing I am certain of is that two people were murdered. Other than that, I know nothing since I wasn't there when it occurred.

On the other hand, others seem to have access to information that I don't have or are gifted with powers that enable them to see the past, present and future.

Exactly why crowd sourcing has been so incredible in maintaining the momentum of enquiry.

There is much information to be had out there and the ability to share it may be the very reason we see justice. Good point benmart.

[daveAustin]

We want the truth!!

Until then... BOYCOT KOH TAO!

A completely stupid post. If they are guitly what will you say then. "Oh people I was wrong, my appologies to all the good operaters of guest houses and hotels for the last twenty years, my bad". Social media is faceless and yet powerful. For sure pressure the BIB, but I think it's pretty pathetic to add salt to the wounds of innocent business owners and operators surely suffering in the shadow of this horid event.

Sorry, chap, but if you're not trolling you are either very jaded or very green. Case aside, what innocent business owners? The island is mafia controlled, the resort/bar which likely kicked all this off with spoilt perp is mafia controlled, and the RTP is one giant mafia. 'Good owners' could not get a look-in on this island and I, for one, am with lucpez all the way... I hope people stop going and the entire place and it's pathetic, weak, grubby controllers are brought to their knees. Tourists, please go elsewhere.

[outboard]

John Thailand John.

I just gotta confirm something.

You are satisfied with the evidence released by the Police. You have absolutely no reason to doubt them, whether it be for this shaky case or the reputation they have built up as a whole.

I have gone through my life with a healthy contempt of conspiracy theories. I have lived in Thailand for 13 years. There is an enormous shadow of a doubt in this case. Most things start as 'RUMOURS' until they are corroborated. The Police won't corroborate. So these remain rumours for now. It seems like the whole country is abuzzz with rumours.

You say that conspiracy theorists jump from one point to the next when something is disproven. Thats true. But seems like the Police have been doing the same thing, changing the points that have been picked out.

The fact that a forensic pathologist was never used at the crime scene and that members of the public, some that were later suspects, were all over the scene suggests the DNA evidence may be useless, tampered with. The Police have tampered with evidence in the past.

Do you think the Thai Police don't beat suspects? Being seen earlier in the evening near the scene is damning evidence?

Why do I bother? You are going to deflect somehow, ignoring all of this and I can't be bothered wasting my time making this post more comprehensive.

You are welcome to your opinion mate, I just don't fully understand why you are so vehemently convinced of it.

I'll admit that I can't know for sure the Burmen didn't do it, but everything surrounding this case makes it so highly doubtful.

But you seem so sure.

John , like you and everyone else on this forum has no access to any evidence

so many people on these forum are convinced that these guys are innocent and that the thai police are fitting up scape goats and in fact this forum is full of some of the most Thai hating people I have ever come across, it is had to believe that this is a Thai x-pat site

[daveAustin]

The only thing I am certain of is that two people were murdered. Other than that, I know nothing since I wasn't there when it occurred.

On the other hand, others seem to have access to information that I don't have or are gifted with powers that enable them to see the past, present and future.

Never mind, you're not the odd one out, it's beyond a lot of folk to see the wood for the trees.

[Number 3]

John Thailand John.

I just gotta confirm something.

You are satisfied with the evidence released by the Police. You have absolutely no reason to doubt them, whether it be for this shaky case or the reputation they have built up as a whole.

I have gone through my life with a healthy contempt of conspiracy theories. I have lived in Thailand for 13 years. There is an enormous shadow of a doubt in this case. Most things start as 'RUMOURS' until they are corroborated. The Police won't corroborate. So these remain rumours for now. It seems like the whole country is abuzzz with rumours.

You say that conspiracy theorists jump from one point to the next when something is disproven. Thats true. But seems like the Police have been doing the same thing, changing the points that have been picked out.

The fact that a forensic pathologist was never used at the crime scene and that members of the public, some that were later suspects, were all over the scene suggests the DNA evidence may be useless, tampered with. The Police have tampered with evidence in the past.

Do you think the Thai Police don't beat suspects? Being seen earlier in the evening near the scene is damning evidence?

Why do I bother? You are going to deflect somehow, ignoring all of this and I can't be bothered wasting my time making this post more comprehensive.

You are welcome to your opinion mate, I just don't fully understand why you are so vehemently convinced of it.

I'll admit that I can't know for sure the Burmen didn't do it, but everything surrounding this case makes it so highly doubtful.

But you seem so sure.

John , like you and everyone else on this forum has no access to any evidence

so many people on these forum are convinced that these guys are innocent and that the thai police are fitting up scape goats and in fact this forum is full of some of the most Thai hating people I have ever come across, it is had to believe that this is a Thai x-pat site

Strange that you got that after only 13 posts.

I do not get that impression at ALL.

Maybe give it a bit more of a shot before you start throwing knives mate.

Just a thought !

[Johnsen]

Sorry JTJ experience is everything on this planet. Unless you are a parent you are merely guessing. Thousands on this forum would never agree with you on this one chief. That's like saying I am not a gay man but I know what it's like to be one. Absolute BS of course.

[TTom911]

I find this a rather extraordinary public statement from the UK government:

... we are very concerned by the allegations of corruption and mistreatment of the suspects and it is very important that whoever committed these murders is brought to justice. We call for the investigation to be conducted in a fair and transparent way, in line with international standards."....

http://www.eadt.co.u..._case_1_3820462

The UK government would NEVER use that language UNLESS they have pretty solid information. I am absolutely certain of that. This is the hardest slap in the face diplomatically possible before official proof of guilt, which is unfortunately still an ongoing process...

[jdinasia]

My being a parent would lead me to want many things. Including not having a bunch of people who have nothing to do with what happened or what will happen scrolling through pictures of my brutally murderer child and commenting on it via social media.

I would not want these conspiracy theorists trying to muddy the water. The sheer number of theories brought forward by people who are relying on social media could slow down the case and thus delaying justice.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

I could tell by your comments you were not. That aside I agree only on one point I would not want pictures of my child brutally murdered on the internet.

But I would want the truth at any cost, any new information whether theory or not investigate.

Unconditional love for the life I carried and brought into this world I would seek justice but would want it to be 100% accurate.

You are wrong. I am a parent. But don't let your biases bother you

[jdinasia]

I find this a rather extraordinary public statement from the UK government:

... we are very concerned by the allegations of corruption and mistreatment of the suspects and it is very important that whoever committed these murders is brought to justice. We call for the investigation to be conducted in a fair and transparent way, in line with international standards."....

http://www.eadt.co.u..._case_1_3820462

The UK government would NEVER use that language UNLESS they have pretty solid information. I am absolutely certain of that. This is the hardest slap in the face diplomatically possible before official proof of guilt, which is unfortunately still an ongoing process...

Of course they would make that comment in any case involving the accusation of torture.

[changnaam]

I find this a rather extraordinary public statement from the UK government:

... we are very concerned by the allegations of corruption and mistreatment of the suspects and it is very important that whoever committed these murders is brought to justice. We call for the investigation to be conducted in a fair and transparent way, in line with international standards."....

http://www.eadt.co.u..._case_1_3820462

The UK government would NEVER use that language UNLESS they have pretty solid information. I am absolutely certain of that. This is the hardest slap in the face diplomatically possible before official proof of guilt, which is unfortunately still an ongoing process...

Yes I agree, for them to use the word corruption suggests that they are taking this very seriously. Yes they do say "allegations of corruption", but if they are speaking about this, and taking some action then I think they see some credence in it.

[DarloKnight]

My being a parent would lead me to want many things. Including not having a bunch of people who have nothing to do with what happened or what will happen scrolling through pictures of my brutally murderer child and commenting on it via social media.

I would not want these conspiracy theorists trying to muddy the water. The sheer number of theories brought forward by people who are relying on social media could slow down the case and thus delaying justice.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

I could tell by your comments you were not. That aside I agree only on one point I would not want pictures of my child brutally murdered on the internet.

But I would want the truth at any cost, any new information whether theory or not investigate.

Unconditional love for the life I carried and brought into this world I would seek justice but would want it to be 100% accurate.

You are wrong. I am a parent. But don't let your biases bother you

Where have I said I'm biased and biased against what? Please elaborate!

As a parent you must know then how passionate I feel, the accused parents and the victims parents feel ?

What ever the truth is it as got to be 100% right! I can understand why both parties would want every theory investigated is that not what everyone wants?

[Johnsen]

Wow JDINASIA time to put the pool cue in the rack on this one. Every parent on this planet is going to argue with you till the end of time on this one. You are showing us all how out of touch with reality you really are. Everyone slips up now and then I guess, after all you have been working overtime as it is. The feeling you have to reply to so many posts on a situation that technically has nothing to do with you is something I'm sure most people on TV would agree they can't quite understand.

[TTom911]

I find this a rather extraordinary public statement from the UK government:

... we are very concerned by the allegations of corruption and mistreatment of the suspects and it is very important that whoever committed these murders is brought to justice. We call for the investigation to be conducted in a fair and transparent way, in line with international standards."....

http://www.eadt.co.u..._case_1_3820462

The UK government would NEVER use that language UNLESS they have pretty solid information. I am absolutely certain of that. This is the hardest slap in the face diplomatically possible before official proof of guilt, which is unfortunately still an ongoing process...

Yes I agree, for them to use the word corruption suggests that they are taking this very seriously. Yes they do say "allegations of corruption", but if they are speaking about this, and taking some action then I think they see some credence in it.

and they must know something concrete... Diplomats mince their words very carefully. They dont say a single word, sure not in writing, they do not need to say or which does not carry a message... and this DOES carry a message...

[thailandchilli]

I find this a rather extraordinary public statement from the UK government:

... we are very concerned by the allegations of corruption and mistreatment of the suspects and it is very important that whoever committed these murders is brought to justice. We call for the investigation to be conducted in a fair and transparent way, in line with international standards."....

http://www.eadt.co.u..._case_1_3820462

The UK government would NEVER use that language UNLESS they have pretty solid information. I am absolutely certain of that. This is the hardest slap in the face diplomatically possible before official proof of guilt, which is unfortunately still an ongoing process...

Yes I agree, for them to use the word corruption suggests that they are taking this very seriously. Yes they do say "allegations of corruption", but if they are speaking about this, and taking some action then I think they see some credence in it.

Its about as strong as you can get without making direct accusations which would just not be appropriate unless they are ready to present the evidence they have. Read any official statement from organisations such as the UN Security council when making a statement on atrocities in Syria or wherever, the wording is always very similar. Diplomatic speak for we know whats going on.

[JohnThailandJohn]

I am parent and if this had happened to my daughter I would want every theory investigated whether it be conspiracy or not I would not rest till this was done, also the same if my child was being accused of murder and there was evidence/theories that she had not committed the crime.

It's called justice and unconditional love!

I take it you and jdinasia are not parents

I would be satisfied that the two suspect or sons whose DNA matched the semen found in the victim and who were in possession of a victim's belonging and who were in and around the scene at the time of the murders and who don't appear to have claimed to have consensual sex with the victim are the ones going to stand trial by competent lawyers (not state appointed) and that this case is being looked at under a microscope and their country has sent representatives to monitor as well as the victims country as well as human rights groups.

Let them have their day in court.

[TTom911]

I find this a rather extraordinary public statement from the UK government:

... we are very concerned by the allegations of corruption and mistreatment of the suspects and it is very important that whoever committed these murders is brought to justice. We call for the investigation to be conducted in a fair and transparent way, in line with international standards."....

http://www.eadt.co.u..._case_1_3820462

The UK government would NEVER use that language UNLESS they have pretty solid information. I am absolutely certain of that. This is the hardest slap in the face diplomatically possible before official proof of guilt, which is unfortunately still an ongoing process...

Yes I agree, for them to use the word corruption suggests that they are taking this very seriously. Yes they do say "allegations of corruption", but if they are speaking about this, and taking some action then I think they see some credence in it.

Its about as strong as you can get without making direct accusations which would just not be appropriate unless they are ready to present the evidence they have. Read any official statement from organisations such as the UN Security council when making a statement on atrocities in Syria or wherever, the wording is always very similar. Diplomatic speak for we know whats going on.

EXACTLY !!!

[DarloKnight]

I am parent and if this had happened to my daughter I would want every theory investigated whether it be conspiracy or not I would not rest till this was done, also the same if my child was being accused of murder and there was evidence/theories that she had not committed the crime.

It's called justice and unconditional love!

I take it you and jdinasia are not parents

I would be satisfied that the two suspect or sons whose DNA matched the semen found in the victim and who were in possession of a victim's belonging and who were in and around the scene at the time of the murders and who don't appear to have claimed to have consensual sex with the victim are the ones going to stand trial by competent lawyers (not state appointed) and that this case is being looked at under a microscope and their country has sent representatives to monitor as well as the victims country as well as human rights groups.

Let them have their day in court.

Yes let them have their day in court, only if all DNA and other evidence had been verified by the country I live in if not I would not be able to sleep at night thinking 2 more innocents would lose their lives.

[jdinasia]

My being a parent would lead me to want many things. Including not having a bunch of people who have nothing to do with what happened or what will happen scrolling through pictures of my brutally murderer child and commenting on it via social media.

I would not want these conspiracy theorists trying to muddy the water. The sheer number of theories brought forward by people who are relying on social media could slow down the case and thus delaying justice.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

I could tell by your comments you were not. That aside I agree only on one point I would not want pictures of my child brutally murdered on the internet.

But I would want the truth at any cost, any new information whether theory or not investigate.

Unconditional love for the life I carried and brought into this world I would seek justice but would want it to be 100% accurate.

You are wrong. I am a parent. But don't let your biases bother you

Where have I said I'm biased and biased against what? Please elaborate!

As a parent you must know then how passionate I feel, the accused parents and the victims parents feel ?

What ever the truth is it as got to be 100% right! I can understand why both parties would want every theory investigated is that not what everyone wants?

No.

Every theory being tossed about is not worthy of investigation.

What I would want is the murderers /rapists jailed for life.

The other theories tossed about.. Those are real people with parents too.

Get the killers and have a trial.

[jdinasia]

I am parent and if this had happened to my daughter I would want every theory investigated whether it be conspiracy or not I would not rest till this was done, also the same if my child was being accused of murder and there was evidence/theories that she had not committed the crime.

It's called justice and unconditional love!

I take it you and jdinasia are not parents

I would be satisfied that the two suspect or sons whose DNA matched the semen found in the victim and who were in possession of a victim's belonging and who were in and around the scene at the time of the murders and who don't appear to have claimed to have consensual sex with the victim are the ones going to stand trial by competent lawyers (not state appointed) and that this case is being looked at under a microscope and their country has sent representatives to monitor as well as the victims country as well as human rights groups.

Let them have their day in court.

Yes let them have their day in court, only if all DNA and other evidence had been verified by the country I live in if not I would not be able to sleep at night thinking 2 more innocents would lose their lives.

Read this

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/foreign_commonwealth_office_answer_our_10_questions_on_the_hannah_witheridge_case_1_3820462

The investigation is a Thai issue.

[JohnThailandJohn]

My being a parent would lead me to want many things. Including not having a bunch of people who have nothing to do with what happened or what will happen scrolling through pictures of my brutally murderer child and commenting on it via social media.

I would not want these conspiracy theorists trying to muddy the water. The sheer number of theories brought forward by people who are relying on social media could slow down the case and thus delaying justice.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

Parents want many things but those of us who are rational accept justice must be carried out by the legal system. We can't expect those who tortured and raped our daughter to be handed a sentence of being tortured and raped. As parents of the accused we can expect multiple countries to investigate another countries investigation if that country doesn't need help and ask for help in solving the crime as well we can't expect the police to test other people's dna when they already have a match but we can expect lawyers to challenge DNA if there is reason to in court.

Bottom line, none of these people involved are our kids and if they were, then we would be incredibly biased and emotional and not necessarily looking at fact or reality. The majority of conspiracy theorists are not being emotional about the crime that us causing them to be irrational, it is anger with Thais, Thailand and those with power in Thailand. They are simply trying to find ways to use this case and exploit it for these reasons. None of them were playing these idiotic games when the case about the train murderer hit the press and there were inconsistencies in the reports, police initially bungled the investigation, they got a DNA match and then got both the suspect to confess and a friend to turn on the suspect who eventually pleaded guilty as I suspect these two will. The idiotic conspiracy about the phone is what got these people going and even when that and subsequent theories got proved to be nonsense, many have just not been able to let go.

[JohnThailandJohn]

I am parent and if this had happened to my daughter I would want every theory investigated whether it be conspiracy or not I would not rest till this was done, also the same if my child was being accused of murder and there was evidence/theories that she had not committed the crime.

It's called justice and unconditional love!

I take it you and jdinasia are not parents

I would be satisfied that the two suspect or sons whose DNA matched the semen found in the victim and who were in possession of a victim's belonging and who were in and around the scene at the time of the murders and who don't appear to have claimed to have consensual sex with the victim are the ones going to stand trial by competent lawyers (not state appointed) and that this case is being looked at under a microscope and their country has sent representatives to monitor as well as the victims country as well as human rights groups.

Let them have their day in court.

Yes let them have their day in court, only if all DNA and other evidence had been verified by the country I live in if not I would not be able to sleep at night thinking 2 more innocents would lose their lives.

Read this

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/foreign_commonwealth_office_answer_our_10_questions_on_the_hannah_witheridge_case_1_3820462

The investigation is a Thai issue.

Conspiracy folks have to demand things that they know are no reasonable in order to continue with conspiracies. And even if they get what they want, they then will say it is not enough or wrong. In this case they will say the police switched DNA or their was a conspiracy to hide the truth by all involved.

[Number 3]

My being a parent would lead me to want many things. Including not having a bunch of people who have nothing to do with what happened or what will happen scrolling through pictures of my brutally murderer child and commenting on it via social media.

I would not want these conspiracy theorists trying to muddy the water. The sheer number of theories brought forward by people who are relying on social media could slow down the case and thus delaying justice.

Justice delayed is justice denied.

Parents want many things but those of us who are rational accept justice must be carried out by the legal system. We can't expect those who tortured and raped our daughter to be handed a sentence of being tortured and raped. As parents of the accused we can expect multiple countries to investigate another countries investigation if that country doesn't need help and ask for help in solving the crime as well we can't expect the police to test other people's dna when they already have a match but we can expect lawyers to challenge DNA if there is reason to in court.

Bottom line, none of these people involved are our kids and if they were, then we would be incredibly biased and emotional and not necessarily looking at fact or reality. The majority of conspiracy theorists are not being emotional about the crime that us causing them to be irrational, it is anger with Thais, Thailand and those with power in Thailand. They are simply trying to find ways to use this case and exploit it for these reasons. None of them were playing these idiotic games when the case about the train murderer hit the press and there were inconsistencies in the reports, police initially bungled the investigation, they got a DNA match and then got both the suspect to confess and a friend to turn on the suspect who eventually pleaded guilty as I suspect these two will. The idiotic conspiracy about the phone is what got these people going and even when that and subsequent theories got proved to be nonsense, many have just not been able to let go.

You lads really should shove over to private messaging now. Please gents.

[MJP]

A few baiting posts have been removed. Just keep to the topic please. Thank you.

[DarloKnight]

I am parent and if this had happened to my daughter I would want every theory investigated whether it be conspiracy or not I would not rest till this was done, also the same if my child was being accused of murder and there was evidence/theories that she had not committed the crime.

It's called justice and unconditional love!

I take it you and jdinasia are not parents

I would be satisfied that the two suspect or sons whose DNA matched the semen found in the victim and who were in possession of a victim's belonging and who were in and around the scene at the time of the murders and who don't appear to have claimed to have consensual sex with the victim are the ones going to stand trial by competent lawyers (not state appointed) and that this case is being looked at under a microscope and their country has sent representatives to monitor as well as the victims country as well as human rights groups.

Let them have their day in court.

Yes let them have their day in court, only if all DNA and other evidence had been verified by the country I live in if not I would not be able to sleep at night thinking 2 more innocents would lose their lives.

Read this

http://www.eadt.co.uk/news/foreign_commonwealth_office_answer_our_10_questions_on_the_hannah_witheridge_case_1_3820462

The investigation is a Thai issue.

I am not a retard! I know it's a Thai issue but I would still want to know my own countries findings.....

I know this would probably not make any difference.

Would you be able to sleep at night knowing 2 people were sentenced to death for something they did not do? I know I couldn't.