British authorities at Koh Tao crime scene

[thailandchilli]

There is, as many know from experience, a big issue with telling lies in Thailand. It is not regarded in the same way as other cultures regard it. Even government ministers lie and when caught say it's acceptable and even ethical. A lie will be told to save face, avoid conflict and avoid responsibility and accountability, from top to bottom and back again.

The RTP are no different, often just making it up as they go along. Therefore it's hard to put any substance to any of their claims.

But, you suggest other suspects were cleared that shouldn't have been, that these 2 are innocent. So you've made your mind up - based on what. Reports (usually poorly translated and badly written) based on comments from the RTP, together with conjecture and speculation on social media?

It has certainly been badly handled and far far from a perfect investigation. But, that unfortunately seems the case in many investigations here.

These 2 are presumed innocent right up to the time the judge makes his decision on the charges against them at the trial, if the prosecutor commits them to trial. So yes, these B2 are currently innocent, legally.

Yes Stephen, in most countries and in most circumstances you are presumed innocent until proven guilty. The 2 suspects have been charged with murder by the police, arrested and taken into custody. They are legally innocent of those charges until a court decides different. But they are not free to go until after that trial.

Presuming there's even going to be a trial, at the moment the prosecution does not have the evidence it requires and I doubt it ever will

[heyexile]

You're missing their purpose entirely & have outlined something that falls within the remit of the Burmese authorities & Interplod.

Interpol has no jurisdiction. The Burmese men's lawyers could get samples though.

So why havn't they and why have the UK authorities not requested they ask for them to be sent to the UK?

Because they are being blocked by the RTP. That's why.

International standards my a***!

LOL

Yet another conspiracy theory! Yeay!!

We don't know what the defense attorneys have done but we can be sure they have not been blocked by the RTP.

No.

There is a vast difference between logic and conspiracy.

Logical = Lawyers request DNA samples of their clients.

Illogical = Lawyers don't request DNA samples from their clients.

Logical = UK police request lawyers obtain DNA samples from their clients.

illogical = UK police are not interested in requesting lawyers obtain DNA samples of their clients.

Fact = Lawyers have not been reported to have yet requested DNA samples from the clients.

Logical = RTP refusing allow anyone to take DNA samples as it will destroy their fake DNA results.

illogical = RTP allow lawyers to take DNA samples and allow it to destroy their own fake DNA evidence.

No conspiracy there, just basing my opinions on what is logical and illogical.

You say 'we can be sure they have not been blocked by the RTP.' Please, will it be too much to ask you to please tell everyone here exactly WHY we can 'be sure'. You must have some very tangible evidence for us all to 'be sure'. Or re you just basing your opinion on the fact that we all know that the RTP have a glowing history of competence and non-corruption that is the envy of the entire policing world.

Thought the coroner could request the samples not the UK police or Lawyers?

"Lawyers for the accused ask British police to conduct their own independent DNA tests" Daily Mail Oct 12

[Rykbanlor]

If i had an opinion that was in contradiction to 97% of the posters here I would probably stop posting. It would seem like an overly onerous and thankless task if it was only my opinion and nothing more.

[slygeeza]

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/

"He was arrested after evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved, he said."

"He also said another suspect is also a son of that village headman. But he has already to Bangkok."

"He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders."

And then, Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen was mysteriously replaced...

this needs to be repeated, it wasnt social media that implicated these guys, it was the police themselves

There were suspects before them and after. You may want to look into why they were fingered and by whom.. But thanks for dragging up a theory already dismissed...

you are taking this personally when it wasnt aimed at you, whats your connection to this case?

[heyexile]

Dont know if that Oct 12 request was denied by RTP, see Daily Mail Oct 12

[jpeg]

"Lawyers for the accused ask British police to conduct their own independent DNA tests" Daily Mail Oct 12

Ah, yet another site blocked by the junta.

[Number 3]

Has anyone else seen the gun shot report on CSI LA ? It's on page 1 and makes a lot of sense to the question of the amount of damage supposedly caused by a garden tool !

Yes, I posted this a few days ago. I also noted that sometime back there was a photo of a gun shown by police that was supposedly found in a search at the burmese home.

I immediately thought that was odd...and thought ...Oh no, they have plan B hatched. With this info I did many searches and believe this is what happened to hanna.

Those boys need to be released now. This is a living nightmare.

Don't know about plan B, but IF the post-mortem would show this, it is likely they will find this gun in the bushes with some Burmese DNA / Fingerprints on it. I also agree it might be true that she was shot (bullet will identity gun and possible owner) so they had to get the bullet and "hopefully" leave no trace.

Much trafficking of arms drugs and slaves happens by way of these three islands

Where the gun is that killed Hannah is anyone's guess. I doubt it is the one shown in the nice new case in tv though.

[CapFarmer]

.... This despite the fact that police early on showed they were not scared or intimidated by the headsman family. Like other early suspects they came out publicly stating the headsman's family were involved but like other earlier suspects, they were ruled out.

I dont know how you come to this conclusion, no DNA tests and intrest dropped and not mentioned again after a change of plod.

At least in part ruled out because the son was not on the island at the time of the murders.

Sorry JTJ, but there is no proof that the Son was not on the Island. When his lawyer came out with the CCTV footage of him at UNI, it was at 9:16am on the 15th september.

There is no proof of his whereabouts on the 14th evening

He was named as a prime suspect early in the investigation and was never properly cleared.

In an interview shortly after the murder's, his father stated that he was not sure of his where bouts. His girlfriend posted on facebook questions as to his where bouts. Even if the dates in the CCTV footage were enought to clear him, which they are not, the CCTV still photo appears to have been edited, and it is not taken at the location that he stated it was. The CCTV footage that the still is supposed to have been taken from is not available. He was reported to have left the island on the early morning in a speed boat. There are reports that he was seen with injuries that are consistent with someone that might have been involved in a fight.

In light of the reasonable doubts that exist as to his where bouts and involvement, prudent police would have at least reviewed cell phone activity from the island during the early morning hours of the murder and also reviewed commercial air travel records to eliminate concern. Additionally, as a prime victim, a mandatory DNA test should have been taken, as was required by several hundred locals that were not suspects.

Police investigated and cleared him.

Just like they cleared others the conspiracy theorists wanted to lynch.

He was named as a prime suspect early in the investigation and was never properly cleared.

[jdinasia]

If i had an opinion that was in contradiction to 97% of the posters here I would probably stop posting. It would seem like an overly onerous and thankless task if it was only my opinion and nothing more.

Some people actually have a pair. Then again we use fact not conspiracy theories.

[jdinasia]

.... This despite the fact that police early on showed they were not scared or intimidated by the headsman family. Like other early suspects they came out publicly stating the headsman's family were involved but like other earlier suspects, they were ruled out.

I dont know how you come to this conclusion, no DNA tests and intrest dropped and not mentioned again after a change of plod.

At least in part ruled out because the son was not on the island at the time of the murders.

Sorry JTJ, but there is no proof that the Son was not on the Island. When his lawyer came out with the CCTV footage of him at UNI, it was at 9:16am on the 15th september.

There is no proof of his whereabouts on the 14th evening

He was named as a prime suspect early in the investigation and was never properly cleared.

In an interview shortly after the murder's, his father stated that he was not sure of his where bouts. His girlfriend posted on facebook questions as to his where bouts. Even if the dates in the CCTV footage were enought to clear him, which they are not, the CCTV still photo appears to have been edited, and it is not taken at the location that he stated it was. The CCTV footage that the still is supposed to have been taken from is not available. He was reported to have left the island on the early morning in a speed boat. There are reports that he was seen with injuries that are consistent with someone that might have been involved in a fight.

In light of the reasonable doubts that exist as to his where bouts and involvement, prudent police would have at least reviewed cell phone activity from the island during the early morning hours of the murder and also reviewed commercial air travel records to eliminate concern. Additionally, as a prime victim, a mandatory DNA test should have been taken, as was required by several hundred locals that were not suspects.

Police investigated and cleared him.

Just like they cleared others the conspiracy theorists wanted to lynch.

He was named as a prime suspect early in the investigation and was never properly cleared.

Quite properly cleared. As were people before and after.

[CapFarmer]

I guess even with the FCO statement ( the 3rd) people will still second guess what the UK officers are here for.

Yes until the RTP stops speaking on behalf of others. Once people hear it from the British investigators then it might stop.

LOL

The FCO office in London issued the statements...

Starts with "meanwhile"

Also reported, the Thai consular official was not summoned, he merely decided to pay a visit in order to receive official UK praise for the way the investigation has been handled.

[StealthEnergiser]

If i had an opinion that was in contradiction to 97% of the posters here I would probably stop posting. It would seem like an overly onerous and thankless task if it was only my opinion and nothing more.

Some people actually have a pair. Then again we use fact not conspiracy theories.

It will be interesting to see if you have a pair when you are half arse opinions are proven wrong .

Edited October 27, 2014 by StealthEnergiser

[CapFarmer]

I guess even with the FCO statement ( the 3rd) people will still second guess what the UK officers are here for.

Yes until the RTP stops speaking on behalf of others. Once people hear it from the British investigators then it might stop.

LOL

The FCO office in London issued the statements...

Starts with "meanwhile"

And the case, which has been returned by the prosecutor's office AGAIN is compete and perfect. Proves everything beyond a shadow of doubt. No cover up here, nothing to see, move along...

[jdinasia]

I guess even with the FCO statement ( the 3rd) people will still second guess what the UK officers are here for.

Yes until the RTP stops speaking on behalf of others. Once people hear it from the British investigators then it might stop.

LOL

The FCO office in London issued the statements...

Starts with "meanwhile"

Also reported, the Thai consular official was not summoned, he merely decided to pay a visit in order to receive official UK praise for the way the investigation has been handled.

I was unaware that either the FCO had given praise. They did however comment on the UK coppers

[jdinasia]

I guess even with the FCO statement ( the 3rd) people will still second guess what the UK officers are here for.

Yes until the RTP stops speaking on behalf of others. Once people hear it from the British investigators then it might stop.

LOL

The FCO office in London issued the statements...

Starts with "meanwhile"

And the case, which has been returned by the prosecutor's office AGAIN is compete and perfect. Proves everything beyond a shadow of doubt. No cover up here, nothing to see, move along...

Certainly some flawed police work.. But apparently not fatally flawed as the prosecution made statements as well.

[CapFarmer]

Mon is guilty of being on a roped off crime scene with no authority or reason to be there. He should be questioned as to why he was there.

How do you know the police officers didn't call him to come? His family own the nearby resort and bars. Maybe they telephoned him, or saw him at the tape and called him over, to see if he could ID the victims.

You actually have no idea why he was there, nor does anyone.

However, by allowing a suspect/relative of prime suspect onto the crime scene, ... Anyone can complete the sentence, it goes without saying.

[attento]

"British authorities"...

No, they are observers and possible advisers, but they have no authority in Thailand.

You seem to have trouble understanding English. They are British authorities because they have authority in Britain. It doesn't say they have authority in Thailand. If President Obama visits another country, for example Thailand he's called the US president even though he's not the president of Thailand.

We must remember that English is not the first language of some contributors here. . . . .

Edited October 27, 2014 by attento

[CapFarmer]

Predictable non credible story.... I doubt the Brit police would comment on the job done by the RTP. A non sensical report really.

Regardless of what evidence is presented in any courts, or the British police report, many have already decided the "truth" based on a fb page, TV and their own readiness to believe what the want to believe.

Now that's nonsensical for sure.

In this case, the only 100% verifiable true fact so far is that either the RTP deliberatly initiated a cover up or they have proven that they are totally incompetent to handle a major investigation.

[Neeranam]

The only reason I can think of for such a big cover up is if a policeman/politician was involved. Does anyone know if that AC bar has police/politician regulars?

In other similar cases, the guys getting off have been billionaires or family of top politicians/police. There's something missing here. The head guy of a little island is not a big player really.

Edited October 27, 2014 by Neeranam

[iReason]

Jpeg

There is no evidence of a gun being used in these crimes

That you have seen.

Or, has been released.

[CapFarmer]

The second full autopsy is unlikely because -- have you ever seen a corpse after an autopsy? Then the body would have been embalmed prior to repatriation via commercial flight.

I have seen this mentioned a number of times on this forum. Can someone explain how the Quebec coroner was able to perform an autopsy on the Belanger sisters if all bodies are embalmed before repatriation?

There have been many posts implying that a prior autopsy and/or embalming makes a subsequent autopsy valueless. The fact is that certain methods of embalming (not all) make extraction of DNA evidence less likely, but never impossible. Most kinds of evidence possible from an initial post-mortem remain capable of being extracted from a subsequent examinations.

After a full autopsy foreign DNA is not likely to be present then adding in embalming makes it extremely unlikely. You can almost always get the corpse' DNA.

what is your explanation of the son not giving his DNA?

He is not a suspect. He is not in custody. He doesn't have to.

So what?

He was told to provide a DNA sample to remove himself from questioning... He didn't... Surely alarm bells should have been ringing? Surely by not providing a sample, he is hindering any progress... In other countries, hindering the progress of an investigation (not even mentioning of this magnitude) is known as 'perverting the course of justice' which in itself is a criminal offence... Why is it that the whole island gave samples, but not him?

Im starting to believe your previous post that you have 'friends' on Koh Tao... It just worries me exactly how connected your friends might be that you seem to be supporting the RTP so adamantly...

The whole island did not give DNA.

Well the prime suspects at the time did not give DNA, that has been confirmed; however, several 100 non suspects were required to donate a sample. Nothing odd there.

[iReason]

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/

"He was arrested after evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved, he said."

"He also said another suspect is also a son of that village headman. But he has already to Bangkok."

"He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders."

And then, Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen was mysteriously replaced...

this needs to be repeated, it wasnt social media that implicated these guys, it was the police themselves

There were suspects before them and after. You may want to look into why they were fingered and by whom.. But thanks for dragging up a theory already dismissed...

“You may want to look into why they were fingered and by whom..”

Bring it forth.

“But thanks for dragging up a theory already dismissed…”

By you.

[sweatalot]

Burmese are 100% innocent if this is true

According to CSILA, Hannah was shot in the head before she was hit by the hoe. He claims he already knew this but didn't want to talk about it because the graphic nature of the image. Apparently a forensic experts told CSILA that Hannah's head looked like was suffered from a bullet wound and this is why the killer(s) used the hoe as a cover up.

I don't know it this is true, this even adds more fuel to the fire the Burmese are totally innocent because I really don't think these Burmese boys carried around a gun did they? I may add I saw the unedited picture, which I do not recommend anybody to look at, but it does makes sense to me.

No, this does not make sense. What's the difference wether she was killed with a gun or with a hoe? It's both murder. Same sentence. If only one person had a gun in KT - but I guess they are all over like everywhere in the land of smile.

The police also found (planted?) one when they investigated another Burmese in KT

[jdinasia]

Jpeg

There is no evidence of a gun being used in these crimes

That you have seen.

Or, has been released.

That exists. Public statement to cause of death with the knowledge that the UK will have an inquest.

[AGareth2]

a gun is more merciful

[attento]

On average, there are more than 15 Britons killed abroad every day of the year. The fact that the British Police and Politicians have considered this case worthy of close inspection would suggest a level of unease with local investigative powers and outcomes. The British Police may not be in a position to conduct in-depth, local investigations of their own, but the threat of their independant report being revealed to a worldwide audience, is bound to exert some pressure on local authorities as to the rigour of their investigation.

[jdinasia]

Mon is guilty of being on a roped off crime scene with no authority or reason to be there. He should be questioned as to why he was there.

How do you know the police officers didn't call him to come? His family own the nearby resort and bars. Maybe they telephoned him, or saw him at the tape and called him over, to see if he could ID the victims.

You actually have no idea why he was there, nor does anyone.

However, by allowing a suspect/relative of prime suspect onto the crime scene, ... Anyone can complete the sentence, it goes without saying.

He was not any kind of suspect at the time. Nor when he was one did he remain one long until he was cleared.

[Mr Yim]

The relentless posting in defence of the police by JTJ, jdinasia and Baerboxer is extraordinary to say the least. So much that they cannot simply be dismissed as trolls. Why on earth would these people spend so much time defending the RTP case, when practically everyone else who has objectively considered this believes the case is corrupt. Not one person (farang or Thai) I have spoken to believes the Burmese boys carried out the crime. I can only assume these guys have a vested interest in the outcome.

[Neeranam]

Mon is guilty of being on a roped off crime scene with no authority or reason to be there. He should be questioned as to why he was there.

How do you know the police officers didn't call him to come? His family own the nearby resort and bars. Maybe they telephoned him, or saw him at the tape and called him over, to see if he could ID the victims.

You actually have no idea why he was there, nor does anyone.

However, by allowing a suspect/relative of prime suspect onto the crime scene, ... Anyone can complete the sentence, it goes without saying.

He was not any kind of suspect at the time. Nor when he was one did he remain one long until he was cleared.

Do you really think the Burmese guys did it? How long have you lived in Thailand?

[Oscar2]

JD, Enlighten me again... Why is The Daily Mail and MailOnline blocked

in Thailand? And no evading the topic please.

Off topic. They were blocked awhile ago, nothing to do with Koh Tao.

that is about the only thing that i can agree upon with this disruptive poster in each and every thread about this murder case posted on the forum.