British authorities at Koh Tao crime scene

[thailandchilli]

even if his DNA doesn't match , this only proves that he didn't have sex with the victim, doesn't prove that he didn't kill the victim

Hedging your bets??

1 million baht question that his father will have to stump up if its positive

[littlebw]

even if his DNA doesn't match , this only proves that he didn't have sex with the victim, doesn't prove that he didn't kill the victim

Hedging your bets??

just common sense

I just want the real murderer's punished and I don't give a toss if they are thai, burmese, english, rich , poor etc

[JOC]

i cant link anything from Bangkokpost news but yes its on the website

the ac bar owners son will give his dna in front of journalists

Why now??

Hard negotiations with the boss of the DNA lab??

Sad thing with this case, no matter the outcome of the DNA or the trial, it will always remain unsolved for a lot of people!

[Anthony5]

My gf just heard on the Thai news that the headman's son will give DNA tomorrow. Has anyone heard this ?

Now that gone be an interesting point in time for the TV conspiracy theorist.

No wait.............he must have finally found a way to modify his DNA

[jdinasia]

My gf just heard on the Thai news that the headman's son will give DNA tomorrow. Has anyone heard this ?

Now that gone be an interesting point in time for the TV conspiracy theorist.

No wait.............he must have finally found a way to modify his DNA

The people that have been saying the only reason not to give DNA is that you are guilty, must be a bit nervous.

[Lozza]

are you for real? he is seen on the CCTV video footage running, after the time of the murders. did you miss that one????

AND just released, again, video of him shaking hands with david, that dead giveaway walk seals it. How the hell are they going to get out of this..impossible.

We have evidence that nomsod WAS in Koh Tao at 1 am.....locals have been saying this all along.

I looked again at the clip of the hand-slap/shake, and two things stood out: the Thai guy looked really similar when he turned his head to the running man CCTV pic. Second, that swaggering walk is typical of a certain sort of Thai (actually about the same anywhere in Asia I've been), that is a tough guy (or wanna be) or a spoiled kid. I've seen that thousands of times.

Yes he's a smart ass. Nomsod's nick name is Doh, his dad asked his friends to call him Sia Doh meaning richman doh. He has a brother Dae who's is feminine.

Dad taught nomsod to be macho, catch many girls.

Nomsod returns to KT nearly every weekend he gets his money from the bar, rule being that after 2am nomsod keeps the income from the bar till close.

Word has it he will be taking a DNA test tomorrow..the thai's and westerners want scotland yard to do it-that ain't going to happen.

[littlebw]

even if his DNA doesn't match , this only proves that he didn't have sex with the victim, doesn't prove that he didn't kill the victim

Hedging your bets??

just common sense

I just want the real murderer's punished and I don't give a toss if they are thai, burmese, english, rich , poor etc

Im saying this relates to the 2 Burmese kids as well, if DNA matches it only proves that they had sex with the victim, and doesn't prove that they killed the victim

They will need to be lots more evidence to tie anyone to the murders

[Jip99]

My gf just heard on the Thai news that the headman's son will give DNA tomorrow. Has anyone heard this ?

Now that gone be an interesting point in time for the TV conspiracy theorist.

No wait.............he must have finally found a way to modify his DNA

The people that have been saying the only reason not to give DNA is that you are guilty, must be a bit nervous.

This is not a game and point scoring is pointless.

[jdinasia]

My gf just heard on the Thai news that the headman's son will give DNA tomorrow. Has anyone heard this ?

Now that gone be an interesting point in time for the TV conspiracy theorist.

No wait.............he must have finally found a way to modify his DNA

The people that have been saying the only reason not to give DNA is that you are guilty, must be a bit nervous.

This is not a game and point scoring is pointless.

Not point scoring. Accusing someone on the Internet is a crime in Thailand. Then there's the risk of defamation cases on top of that. I doubt he would go after foreigners but you never know.

[culicine]

My gf just heard on the Thai news that the headman's son will give DNA tomorrow. Has anyone heard this ?

Now that gone be an interesting point in time for the TV conspiracy theorist.

No wait.............he must have finally found a way to modify his DNA

The people that have been saying the only reason not to give DNA is that you are guilty, must be a bit nervous.

I don't think that kid could pull the skin off a rice pudding. I'd like to see all the police and mafia tested on the island. He testing negative does not further implicate the Burmese. They need to be retested, and independently - no Thai police involvement this time. And as has been stated here, DNA from semem in no way proves murder, and not even that Hannah was raped. This is why the prosecution are still not indicting based on the evidence so far.

[Thai at Heart]

Have they had access to the suspects yet, taken their own DNA samples?

I would have though that would be number one on their priority list.

You're missing their purpose entirely & have outlined something that falls within the remit of the Burmese authorities & Interplod.

The other paper is reporting that the son of the bar owner is going to take a DNA test.

This maybe the start of the whole thing unravelling.

Because of course, someone may ask to see the original sperm sample. Which may well prove difficult if there has been a stitch up.

[Thai at Heart]

even if his DNA doesn't match , this only proves that he didn't have sex with the victim, doesn't prove that he didn't kill the victim

Hedging your bets??

just common sense

I just want the real murderer's punished and I don't give a toss if they are thai, burmese, english, rich , poor etc

Im saying this relates to the 2 Burmese kids as well, if DNA matches it only proves that they had sex with the victim, and doesn't prove that they killed the victim

They will need to be lots more evidence to tie anyone to the murders

With no confession, the police have a biiiig problem

[jdinasia]

My gf just heard on the Thai news that the headman's son will give DNA tomorrow. Has anyone heard this ?

Now that gone be an interesting point in time for the TV conspiracy theorist.

No wait.............he must have finally found a way to modify his DNA

The people that have been saying the only reason not to give DNA is that you are guilty, must be a bit nervous.

I don't think that kid could pull the skin off a rice pudding. I'd like to see all the police and mafia tested on the island. He testing negative does not further implicate the Burmese. They need to be retested, and independently - no Thai police involvement this time. And as has been stated here, DNA from semem in no way proves murder, and not even that Hannah was raped. This is why the prosecution are still not indicting based on the evidence so far.

This is Thailand. A reasonable person here would agree that if the autopsy showed rape and there was DNA (and a spontaneous confession to rape) that matches and the victim was murdered, there's enough for a conviction on both murder and rape.

Would that be the same in a country with the jury system? Maybe not.

[khamprasith]

Where is the hand-slap/shake clip?

[Lozza]

In any murder investigation in a civilized country, the prosecution would have to produce evidence which included something very, very important....MOTIVE

Where was the motive in this case and please don't give the bullsh*t that the 2 Burmese were aroused by the actions of the victims.

Now when the toxicology reports become public knowledge, if there was evidence of a date rate drug......we begin to see a motive.

If the RTP had followed up earlier claims of Foreign female tourists rape claims on Koh Tao, maybe they would have caught the murderers before they had committed another crime.

Why has the RTP not done any mobile phone investigation ie phone records, sms records...WHY? because they know they will lead to people who are untouchable

I can't see the boys doing it they couldn't afford the drugs to begin with, I doubt they sit in bars dropping pills into drinks either. If it is a date rape drug ten it's AC bar.

[Bleacher Bum East]

I would love this to come to trial, a fair and open trial, one in a civilized court....hey and even better, lets televise it....let the world see Thai justice in action.

Lets call the British Police officers to give there views....ok?

Lets get the phone records on show

Lets see the DNA evidence, tell us which lab did the tests

Lets see the autopsy report, the toxicology reports.

Lets do it, fair and open

To the post one above: A good lawyer in a criminal matter can make a case either for the prosecution or the defendant. Arguing one side or another on here IMHO does not mean 'support' of anything -- just arguing the merits of either side of the case.

"A good lawyer in a criminal matter can make a case either for the prosecution or the defendant."

That is absolutely correct . . . And in fact, a good prosecutor needs to be able to make the case for the defense, and a good defense attorney needs to be able to make the case for the prosecution. If a lawyer cannot see and understand the strengths and weaknesses of both sides (and there are always strengths and weaknesses on both sides) then he is not a good lawyer and will not be able to do his job properly---whether that is representing the state as prosecutor or representing the accused as a defense attorney.

"Arguing one side or another on here IMHO does not mean 'support' of anything -- just arguing the merits of either side of the case."

In theory, that should be the case. But in reality, a vast majority of those posting on both sides of the TVC debate have put on blinders and (unlike a good lawyer or independent observer) can only see one side of the case. This, among other things, is why a vast majority of the posts (although not all) are worthless and maddeningly repetitive (seriously, to both sides, how many times a day do you need to say the exact same thing on TVC? Do you really think this helps your cause?).

A good lawyer also needs to be able to separate provable fact from inference, and be able to separate reasonable inference (reasonably derived from known facts and circumstances, and which help his or her argument) from wildly speculative guesses (not derived from known facts and circumstances, or unreasonably derived, and which actually hurt his or her argument).

All of us on TVC have very few known facts to base our arguments or inferences on . . . and I mean very few.

All that being said, at the investigation stage, it is OK for investigators for the state and for the defense to follow speculative assertions to see where they lead ... but good investigators have an experienced professional sense of which speculations are worth following up on, and which are a waste of time.

Finally, a good judge will be able to see the strengths and weaknesses of both sides, determine what is fact, what is reasonable inference that should be considered, and what is speculation that should not be considered. Then a good judge will weigh all of this and decide if the prosecution has met the burden of proof.

In my opinion, there a very few good armchair lawyers, judges, investigators, or even debaters on these TVC threads (on either side), which is why those posting are confined to a handful of people shouting in an echo chamber---and why very few "outsiders" are willing to throw themselves into the mud pit of these threads. Which is a shame, because it means a lot of people with interesting and valuable opinions never even consider joining a TVC debate.

The good news is that there are very good investigators, and I hope very good lawyers, working on the case. I believe they have many known facts and circumstance to work with that TVC posters do not have, and will be able to draw professional and experienced inferences from those facts and circumstances. I believe that this is what will ultimately lead to the truth being discovered and revealed in court, one way or the other, about what happened to Hannah and David.

Very few people weigh in on the side of being opposed to trial by social media.

The people that do call for exactly what you do. An actual trial with a vigorous defense for the accused, are subject to personal attacks.

The "everyone knows exactly who did it " crowd ignore the reality that their claim is untrue and amounts to a lynch mob mentality.

If people believe it is a stitch up they should want a trial at the defense' earliest convenience.

I agree with this as well . . . any trial must be fair and transparent or it is not meaningful.

In order to be fair, a trial must include what are generally considered the basic elements of a fair trial.

A vigorous defense---which is supplied through discovery with all of the evidence available (as well as the processes used to obtain and analyze the evidence), has the ability to challenge the evidence, and has the ability to introduce its own evidence---is one of the basic elements of a fair trial.

If a trial is not fair, then it does not determine guilt or innocence, it only determines conviction or no conviction. These are not the same thing.

It's also important to point out two other things:

First, there should not even be a trial unless the prosecution genuinely believes it has a reasonable likelihood of proving that the accused are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Currently, the prosecution has not yet officially made that determination. What they are waiting for none of us knows. I have my own hunch, but it would just be an educated guess.

Second, saying you want the truth to ultimately come out in court, like I did, does not mean in any particular trial. If the guys currently accused are guilty, I would want it to come out in their fair trial. If other persons are guilty, I would want it to come out in their fair trial. The key is to get the right people, whoever they are, and make sure that nobody who is innocent is convicted. There is too much at stake not to.

But personally, I don't think anybody on TVC has enough reliable information to say that any particular person is guilty at this point. I have my hunches as well just like everybody else, but there is no way I can say that I am sure beyond a reasonable doubt. Nobody could.

That doesn't mean you can't criticize a lot that has happened, or infer things based on facts that are known, or share facts and information with other people interested in the case, or even guess as long as you admit that's what you're doing.

And it doesn't mean there isn't value in keeping the pressure on authorities to stay fair and honest and make sure they get the real killers--there is tremendous value in that also.

It just means you can't say definitively you know who did it . . . and probably at this stage, we can't even say who likely did it (regardless of what side of the debate you are on).

Edited October 28, 2014 by Bleacher Bum East

[iReason]

DNA was taken but NEVER checked, the results came back within 24 hours....IMPOSSIBLE especially in Thailand....even the FBI would not turn around DNA results in 24Hrs

The British may have no authority in Thailand, but when did Thai Village Head men have the authority to obstruct law and order? is that part of the new Junta Constitution?

How did he obstruct law and order? What I read is he met with police and he and his brother gave DNA samples and were cooperative with police as was the son who turned out to be in Bangkok when the murders occurred.

JTJ, unless you personally saw the boy in Bangkok at the time of the murders.... it would be more accurate to say that he was allegedly not on the island.

Without cross posting, always insisting that he was not on the island makes you look a little too much like the poster boy for the RTP.

It would be jumping to conclusions to insist he was in Bangkok. There simply was not enough time to investigate his whereabouts before pronouncing him to be so squeaky clean.

Don't feed the trolls who have an agenda.

Go to your prefs and choose to IGNORE them.

It's quite a relief...

[Heisenberg01]

All depends on what they compare his DNA against, ill bet my right nutsack the implicated DNA is the tainted one.

He wouldnt be doing this if there was anyway he was going to get caught out.

Hes either innocent or its been squared away.

[Lozza]

What I really do not understand is if it is so bad and a lot of expats despise it so much (way they talk) why do they stay in Thailand?

No one has said they despise it, it is the system that's despised.

Thailand is a fantastic place to live, most of the Thai's are truly genuine and humble they would give up bed if they had to, nurse you back to health without complaint.

I can understand their dislike of farang I'd be the same if my country had been over run with asians or russians et al having to grovel would be a hard take for me.

I could go on forever here but seeing you're only a tourist I doubt you want to know much more. Enjoy your visit

[wellred]

My gf just heard on the Thai news that the headman's son will give DNA tomorrow. Has anyone heard this ?

Now that gone be an interesting point in time for the TV conspiracy theorist.

No wait.............he must have finally found a way to modify his DNA

The people that have been saying the only reason not to give DNA is that you are guilty, must be a bit nervous.

I don't think that kid could pull the skin off a rice pudding. I'd like to see all the police and mafia tested on the island. He testing negative does not further implicate the Burmese. They need to be retested, and independently - no Thai police involvement this time. And as has been stated here, DNA from semem in no way proves murder, and not even that Hannah was raped. This is why the prosecution are still not indicting based on the evidence so far.

I thought it was the other way around and that they were indicting them based on DNA evidence as opposed to the confession which has since been retracted.

[Thai at Heart]

I would love this to come to trial, a fair and open trial, one in a civilized court....hey and even better, lets televise it....let the world see Thai justice in action.

Lets call the British Police officers to give there views....ok?

Lets get the phone records on show

Lets see the DNA evidence, tell us which lab did the tests

Lets see the autopsy report, the toxicology reports.

Lets do it, fair and open

To the post one above: A good lawyer in a criminal matter can make a case either for the prosecution or the defendant. Arguing one side or another on here IMHO does not mean 'support' of anything -- just arguing the merits of either side of the case.

"A good lawyer in a criminal matter can make a case either for the prosecution or the defendant."

That is absolutely correct . . . And in fact, a good prosecutor needs to be able to make the case for the defense, and a good defense attorney needs to be able to make the case for the prosecution. If a lawyer cannot see and understand the strengths and weaknesses of both sides (and there are always strengths and weaknesses on both sides) then he is not a good lawyer and will not be able to do his job properly---whether that is representing the state as prosecutor or representing the accused as a defense attorney.

"Arguing one side or another on here IMHO does not mean 'support' of anything -- just arguing the merits of either side of the case."

In theory, that should be the case. But in reality, a vast majority of those posting on both sides of the TVC debate have put on blinders and (unlike a good lawyer or independent observer) can only see one side of the case. This, among other things, is why a vast majority of the posts (although not all) are worthless and maddeningly repetitive (seriously, to both sides, how many times a day do you need to say the exact same thing on TVC? Do you really think this helps your cause?).

A good lawyer also needs to be able to separate provable fact from inference, and be able to separate reasonable inference (reasonably derived from known facts and circumstances, and which help his or her argument) from wildly speculative guesses (not derived from known facts and circumstances, or unreasonably derived, and which actually hurt his or her argument).

All of us on TVC have very few known facts to base our arguments or inferences on . . . and I mean very few.

All that being said, at the investigation stage, it is OK for investigators for the state and for the defense to follow speculative assertions to see where they lead ... but good investigators have an experienced professional sense of which speculations are worth following up on, and which are a waste of time.

Finally, a good judge will be able to see the strengths and weaknesses of both sides, determine what is fact, what is reasonable inference that should be considered, and what is speculation that should not be considered. Then a good judge will weigh all of this and decide if the prosecution has met the burden of proof.

In my opinion, there a very few good armchair lawyers, judges, investigators, or even debaters on these TVC threads (on either side), which is why those posting are confined to a handful of people shouting in an echo chamber---and why very few "outsiders" are willing to throw themselves into the mud pit of these threads. Which is a shame, because it means a lot of people with interesting and valuable opinions never even consider joining a TVC debate.

The good news is that there are very good investigators, and I hope very good lawyers, working on the case. I believe they have many known facts and circumstance to work with that TVC posters do not have, and will be able to draw professional and experienced inferences from those facts and circumstances. I believe that this is what will ultimately lead to the truth being discovered and revealed in court, one way or the other, about what happened to Hannah and David.

Very few people weigh in on the side of being opposed to trial by social media.

The people that do call for exactly what you do. An actual trial with a vigorous defense for the accused, are subject to personal attacks.

The "everyone knows exactly who did it " crowd ignore the reality that their claim is untrue and amounts to a lynch mob mentality.

If people believe it is a stitch up they should want a trial at the defense' earliest convenience.

I agree with this as well . . . any trial must be fair and transparent or it is not meaningful.

In order to be fair, a trial must include what are generally considered the basic elements of a fair trial.

A vigorous defense---which is supplied through discovery with all of the evidence available (as well as the processes used to obtain and analyze the evidence), has the ability to challenge the evidence, and has the ability to introduce its own evidence---is one of the basic elements of a fair trial.

If a trial is not fair, then it does not determine guilt or innocence, it only determines conviction or no conviction. These are not the same thing.

It's also important to point out two other things:

First, there should not even be a trial unless the prosecution genuinely believes it has a reasonable likelihood of proving that the accused are guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Currently, the prosecution has not yet officially made that determination. What they are waiting for none of us knows. I have my own hunch, but it would just be an educated guess.

Second, saying you want the truth to ultimately come out in court, like I did, does not mean in any particular trial. If the guys currently accused are guilty, I would want it to come out in their fair trial. If other persons are guilty, I would want it to come out in their fair trial. The key is to get the right people, whoever they are, and make sure that nobody who is innocent is convicted. There is too much at stake not to.

But personally, I don't think anybody on TVC has enough reliable information to say that any particular person is guilty at this point. I have my hunches as well just like everybody else, but there is no way I can say that I am sure beyond a reasonable doubt. Nobody could.

That doesn't mean you can't criticize a lot that has happened, or infer things based on facts that are known, or share facts and information with other people interested in the case, or even guess as long as you admit that's what you're doing.

And it doesn't mean there isn't value in keeping the pressure on authorities to stay fair and honest and make sure they get the real killers--there is tremendous value in that also.

It just means you can't say definitively you know who did it . . . and probably at this stage, we can't even say who likely did it (regardless of what side of the debate you are on).

Indeed, how can they just keep extending the detention without formally charging them? As yet the case is incomplete but these guys have been in detention whilst the case has been thrown back twice.

Surely if they can't bring a case in a certain time, these guys have to be released????

[spud1]

Have they had access to the suspects yet, taken their own DNA samples?

I would have though that would be number one on their priority list.

You're missing their purpose entirely & have outlined something that falls within the remit of the Burmese authorities & Interplod.

The other paper is reporting that the son of the bar owner is going to take a DNA test.

This maybe the start of the whole thing unravelling.

Because of course, someone may ask to see the original sperm sample. Which may well prove difficult if there has been a stitch up.

It's just a fuxxx side show unless the DNA is taken independently.Having a swab test for the cameras,doesn't mean jack shit.We'll wait and see.

[IslandLover]

DarloKnight, on 28 Oct 2014 - 08:12, said:DarloKnight, on 28 Oct 2014 - 08:12, said:

JD are you a retired lawyer? I know it's nothing to do with the thread but just curious due to you knowledge (not having a go either)

@DarloKnight - He certainly thinks and writes like a lawyer - a slippery one at that - who knows how to argue his case - LOL!. I've had plenty of experience with lawyers, having worked for several in the past (and also had a close relative in the profession).

Edit: I don't know what's wrong with the nested quotes on this forum, they are proving very difficult to delete.

Edited October 28, 2014 by IslandLover

[kkup]

Why don't the Burmese give their DNA to the British Police and ask them to send it back to Britain for analysis... Easy.

[Thaddeus]

My gf just heard on the Thai news that the headman's son will give DNA tomorrow. Has anyone heard this ?

Now that gone be an interesting point in time for the TV conspiracy theorist.

No wait.............he must have finally found a way to modify his DNA

He doesn't need to by now.

This puddle is deep and the waters are muddy.

I think that he thinks the time to protect/protest his innocence is now.

I think he protests too much.

And it is far too late.

[PaPiPuPePo]

In any murder investigation in a civilized country, the prosecution would have to produce evidence which included something very, very important....MOTIVE

Where was the motive in this case and please don't give the bullsh*t that the 2 Burmese were aroused by the actions of the victims.

Now when the toxicology reports become public knowledge, if there was evidence of a date rate drug......we begin to see a motive.

If the RTP had followed up earlier claims of Foreign female tourists rape claims on Koh Tao, maybe they would have caught the murderers before they had committed another crime.

Why has the RTP not done any mobile phone investigation ie phone records, sms records...WHY? because they know they will lead to people who are untouchable

So if I were a prosecuting attorney, here is (hypothetically) what I might say:

People have commented that a crime of this brutality could only have been perpetrated in extreme passion such as one who has suffered rejection, humiliation, and losing face by having his advances denied by the deceased UK female.

But here may be another source of extreme passion: 2 young men from another country have been working low-paying menial jobs on the island for 2 years. Every day they see scantily clad Western females and know that Western males are -- for the proper consideration which they certainly lack -- able to have sex with Thai females and maybe even the females from their own country whom they covet. One day they are out on the beach at 4AM and the hear the sounds of love making close by and figure this may be the chance that has been gnawing away at them for years. And the rest happened when things just got out of control.

Exactly, BtB, about them "being aroused" from 60 meters and that's why the brutally gang-raped and bashed her face to a pulp. That contention was one of the first big groaners by the RTP that I read.

JLC you've posted too much waste-of-my-time BS. Good example of the wild hypothesising going on which is NOT trying to expiate the Burmese guys (plenty trying to as well). I'm giving your posts the skip-over from now on.

Edited October 28, 2014 by PaPiPuPePo

[PaPiPuPePo]

DarloKnight, on 28 Oct 2014 - 08:12, said:DarloKnight, on 28 Oct 2014 - 08:12, said:

JD are you a retired lawyer? I know it's nothing to do with the thread but just curious due to you knowledge (not having a go either)

@DarloKnight - He certainly thinks and writes like a lawyer - a slippery one at that - who knows how to argue his case - LOL!. I've had plenty of experience with lawyers, having worked for several in the past (and also had a close relative in the profession).

Edit: I don't know what's wrong with the nested quotes on this forum, they are proving very difficult to delete.

Spot on. I had one in the family who when money was at stake gave me a long, hard lesson in how someone with legal training can spin an entangling web of semi-convincing BS around the less rhetorically-savvy i.e. the vast majority of people. That experience and others gave me a good sniffer for the various ways this is done which is why I've gone a bit attack-dog on him a few times.

Not as slick as he thinks, like posting from an iPhone? Seems a bit careless.

Edited October 28, 2014 by PaPiPuPePo

[MikePhuket1970]

There are 100,000 Thais who are above the law. Remember this when you think that any member of this headman's family are going to get their just desserts in this lifetime.

Interesting claim. Please list them for us!

Police,Army,Politicians and Hiso crap.

Sorry,the list is a bit longer now.

[JLCrab]

In any murder investigation in a civilized country, the prosecution would have to produce evidence which included something very, very important....MOTIVE

Where was the motive in this case and please don't give the bullsh*t that the 2 Burmese were aroused by the actions of the victims.

Now when the toxicology reports become public knowledge, if there was evidence of a date rate drug......we begin to see a motive.

If the RTP had followed up earlier claims of Foreign female tourists rape claims on Koh Tao, maybe they would have caught the murderers before they had committed another crime.

Why has the RTP not done any mobile phone investigation ie phone records, sms records...WHY? because they know they will lead to people who are untouchable

So if I were a prosecuting attorney, here is (hypothetically) what I might say:

People have commented that a crime of this brutality could only have been perpetrated in extreme passion such as one who has suffered rejection, humiliation, and losing face by having his advances denied by the deceased UK female.

But here may be another source of extreme passion: 2 young men from another country have been working low-paying menial jobs on the island for 2 years. Every day they see scantily clad Western females and know that Western males are -- for the proper consideration which they certainly lack -- able to have sex with Thai females and maybe even the females from their own country whom they covet. One day they are out on the beach at 4AM and the hear the sounds of love making close by and figure this may be the chance that has been gnawing away at them for years. And the rest happened when things just got out of control.

Exactly, BtB, about them "being aroused" from 60 meters and that's why the brutally gang-raped and bashed her face to a pulp. That contention was one of the first big groaners by the RTP that I read.

JLC you've posted too much waste-of-my-time BS. Good example of the wild hypothesising going on which is NOT trying to expiate the Burmese guys (plenty trying to as well). I'm giving your posts the skip-over from now on.

If I had known your time was so valuable I might have tried to waste more of it.

Edited October 28, 2014 by JLCrab

[neverdie]

Have they had access to the suspects yet, taken their own DNA samples?

I would have though that would be number one on their priority list.

Crossy,

They're professional who know what they are doing. Everything will have a time and place and I wouldn't expect that we will know everything they are up to.

Comparing these guys to the other buffoons is more extreme than chalk and cheese.