British authorities at Koh Tao crime scene

[jdinasia]

By the way the UK coroner CAN request a copy of the Thai postmortem and the police reports.

Also another postmortem was done in the UK this is only really done if the family is not happy with the initial investigation or any other extenuating circumstances.

No.

They can ask the FCO to ask.

An inquest is held for all deaths abroad.

[RustBucket]

What is the first thing a trial lawyer learns?

Never ask a question you don't know how the client will answer. Corollary is never announce a test you don't know the results of.

Your logic fails

BTW

You claimed a fact. You said the RTP blocked the DNA samples. Support the claim.

Now you are really embarrassing yourself.

end of conversation. (to save you further embarrassment).

[JOC]

This really ticks me off. The UK (with some help from the Americans but mostly the UK) liberated Thailand from the Japanese after WWII and it seems that Thailand has never forgiven them for it. Or something like that. Thais certainly have NO loyalty to anyone but themselves.

How do you expect the people of a country, where 90% of the population have never heard of WW2 to show gratitude??

And seriously WW2 ended almost 70 years ago!!

[billphillips]

Just a thought, and nothing to do with my earlier reply .....

Is everyone expecting the Brit cops to play by "police rules and regulations" when it's a well know fact that the majority of Thai cops do not.

I think that the Thai statement along the lines of ... Brit cops are here to observe only ... Is just that. A Thai statement.

Iv seen many statements on the news lately. I have to say that on a personal level, I don't believe most of them.

The reality may or may not be the same. I can't think of any good reason for Brit cops being here "to observe only". I fell sure, and hope, the the Brit cops role is much, much more than that.

Maybe the result of this visit will never be made public. If so I sincerely hope that away from the public view ... Pressure is applied.

No further replies to this comment from me. It's a personal point of view only. Trollers .... Pull your hair (if any) out.

[jdinasia]

What is the first thing a trial lawyer learns?

Never ask a question you don't know how the client will answer. Corollary is never announce a test you don't know the results of.

Your logic fails

BTW

You claimed a fact. You said the RTP blocked the DNA samples. Support the claim.

Now you are really embarrassing yourself.

end of conversation. (to save you further embarrassment).

LOL

Sorry I popped your illogic bubble!!

[RustBucket]

What is the first thing a trial lawyer learns?

Never ask a question you don't know how the client will answer. Corollary is never announce a test you don't know the results of.

Your logic fails

BTW

You claimed a fact. You said the RTP blocked the DNA samples. Support the claim.

Now you are really embarrassing yourself.

end of conversation. (to save you further embarrassment).

LOL

Sorry I popped your illogic bubble!!

Whatever.

We will just let the other readers in the thread make up their minds on that one.

[DarloKnight]

By the way the UK coroner CAN request a copy of the Thai postmortem and the police reports.

Also another postmortem was done in the UK this is only really done if the family is not happy with the initial investigation or any other extenuating circumstances.

No.

They can ask the FCO to ask.

An inquest is held for all deaths abroad.

I know that but the coroner will have asked for this info, but what about the 2nd postmortem being performed? were they not happy with information provided? Does the UK coroner already have samples?

Just asking?

[jdinasia]

Just a thought, and nothing to do with my earlier reply .....

Is everyone expecting the Brit cops to play by "police rules and regulations" when it's a well know fact that the majority of Thai cops do not.

I think that the Thai statement along the lines of ... Brit cops are here to observe only ... Is just that. A Thai statement.

Iv seen many statements on the news lately. I have to say that on a personal level, I don't believe most of them.

The reality may or may not be the same. I can't think of any good reason for Brit cops being here "to observe only". I fell sure, and hope, the the Brit cops role is much, much more than that.

Maybe the result of this visit will never be made public. If so I sincerely hope that away from the public view ... Pressure is applied.

No further replies to this comment from me. It's a personal point of view only. Trollers .... Pull your hair (if any) out.

Bob

You didn't look up the clause I suggested did you?

[retsdon]

I have this suspicion that the DNA matches are less than conclusive. And that's being charitable.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Just a thought, and nothing to do with my earlier reply .....

Is everyone expecting the Brit cops to play by "police rules and regulations" when it's a well know fact that the majority of Thai cops do not.

I think that the Thai statement along the lines of ... Brit cops are here to observe only ... Is just that. A Thai statement.

Iv seen many statements on the news lately. I have to say that on a personal level, I don't believe most of them.

The reality may or may not be the same. I can't think of any good reason for Brit cops being here "to observe only". I fell sure, and hope, the the Brit cops role is much, much more than that.

Maybe the result of this visit will never be made public. If so I sincerely hope that away from the public view ... Pressure is applied.

No further replies to this comment from me. It's a personal point of view only. Trollers .... Pull your hair (if any) out.

While they may do more than observe it would only be with Thai permission. The Britts would not defy international laws and standards and create political turmoil and distrust from countries around the globe by illegally interfering with a friendly and sovereign nations criminal case. If they did risk this and secretly violated Vienna Convention and other laws and were not caught they could do nothing with any information they uncovered because they minute they released it they would be condemned globally.

And if the Brits do uncover anything wrong in their current role then they will make the Thai authorities aware of it. They are not going to cause embarrassment to Thailand after being invited to observe unless they never want to be invited to another country to observe.

The US has many times worked with Thai authorities to help solve criminal matter and even the UK was invited at least once. Thais have no problem asking for help when the need it but no sovereign country is going to ask another to re-investigate a local crime they are capable of solving all to make skeptics happy.

Like it or not, this is just the way things are done.

[jdinasia]

By the way the UK coroner CAN request a copy of the Thai postmortem and the police reports.

Also another postmortem was done in the UK this is only really done if the family is not happy with the initial investigation or any other extenuating circumstances.

No.

They can ask the FCO to ask.

An inquest is held for all deaths abroad.

I know that but the coroner will have asked for this info, but what about the 2nd postmortem being performed? were they not happy with information provided? Does the UK coroner already have samples?

Just asking?

AFAIK it has not been performed. Jan 14th is the date set for the inquest. Inquests are standard. A second full post -mortem is unlikely. More likely is an examination of the wounds, a ruling of unlawful death, and a description of the weapon if that can be determined.

The second full autopsy is unlikely because -- have you ever seen a corpse after an autopsy? Then the body would have been embalmed prior to repatriation via commercial flight.

[espinoza]

Have they had access to the suspects yet, taken their own DNA samples?

I would have though that would be number one on their priority list.

No point, becauce the DNA tests the reliable Royal Thai Police took cannot be proven is from the crime scene. Maybe, or probably the DNA tests were taken from the accused (victims) ????

[jdinasia]

I have this suspicion that the DNA matches are less than conclusive. And that's being charitable.

If there is a DNA match at all, why do you think it would not be conclusive?

I assume there are 2 and they are conclusive.

[JohnThailandJohn]

It seems it may be possible that authorities may be allowing the Brits more access than just observer status. If this is the case that is great but will not help those hell bent on conspiracy theories because nothing will convince them of any thing short of their being a set-up .... This despite the fact that police early on showed they were not scared or intimidated by the headsman family. Like other early suspects they came out publicly stating the headsman's family were involved but like other earlier suspects, they were ruled out.

[Heisenberg01]

One of the coppers is from Norfolk is he not?

His presence must mean the parents of the girl have registered some sort of complaint and are not satisfied with the how the official investigation is going.

Boots on the ground/the prime ministers request.

Some strong words coming out from diplomatic channels, the unnanounced visit with no local plod allowed near them, the general finaly keeping his mouth shut for over a week now, police chief pulling a sickie.

Somethings afoot thats for sure, whether its what we all hope for that the truth comes out time will tell, but for the trolls trying to say its buisness as normal, nothing to see move along one can only wonder why, its either agenda driven or they are too pig headed to back down and unwilling to change a viewpoint.

[Heisenberg01]

.... This despite the fact that police early on showed they were not scared or intimidated by the headsman family. Like other early suspects they came out publicly stating the headsman's family were involved but like other earlier suspects, they were ruled out.

I dont know how you come to this conclusion, no DNA tests and intrest dropped and not mentioned again after a change of plod.

[Heisenberg01]

JTJ is here now Jdinasia, you can have a cup of horlicks and get off to bed.

Edited October 26, 2014 by Heisenberg01

[JohnThailandJohn]

Have they had access to the suspects yet, taken their own DNA samples?

I would have though that would be number one on their priority list.

No point, becauce the DNA tests the reliable Royal Thai Police took cannot be proven is from the crime scene. Maybe, or probably the DNA tests were taken from the accused (victims) ????

So, you suspect a vast conspiracy between all the people involved in collecting and testing the semen found at the crime scene and further suspect the suspects who have no problem saying they were threatened into confessing forgot to mention that the police also made them give sperm which the police then went back and replaced the sperm from the crime scene with and changed all the initial DNA reports at the numerous labs involved in comparing the DNA and got all these people to remain silent?

Just curious why? Many more scary things have gone unsolved in Thailand and eventually they almost surely would have determined whose Semen it was in the victim. Clearly they are not scared of the headmans as they accused him publicly of the murder early on only to later have to clear them as they did with other suspects including Farang and Burmese.

[DarloKnight]

By the way the UK coroner CAN request a copy of the Thai postmortem and the police reports.

Also another postmortem was done in the UK this is only really done if the family is not happy with the initial investigation or any other extenuating circumstances.

No.

They can ask the FCO to ask.

An inquest is held for all deaths abroad.

I know that but the coroner will have asked for this info, but what about the 2nd postmortem being performed? were they not happy with information provided? Does the UK coroner already have samples?

Just asking?

AFAIK it has not been performed. Jan 14th is the date set for the inquest. Inquests are standard. A second full post -mortem is unlikely. More likely is an examination of the wounds, a ruling of unlawful death, and a description of the weapon if that can be determined.

The second full autopsy is unlikely because -- have you ever seen a corpse after an autopsy? Then the body would have been embalmed prior to repatriation via commercial flight.

As per the 2nd autopsy we might not ever know but due to circumstances of death I'm sure the coroner would have wanted one if it was possible, and no I have never seen a corpse before or after a autopsy and never want to.

[RustBucket]

I have this suspicion that the DNA matches are less than conclusive. And that's being charitable.

If there is a DNA match at all, why do you think it would not be conclusive?

I assume there are 2 and they are conclusive.

So why no prosecution?

In any other country, conclusive DNA evidence is all that is required. That is logical

Your 'assumption' is actually illogical.

Edited October 26, 2014 by RustBucket

[jdinasia]

I have this suspicion that the DNA matches are less than conclusive. And that's being charitable.

If there is a DNA match at all, why do you think it would not be conclusive?

I assume there are 2 and they are conclusive.

So why no prosecution?

In any other country, conclusive DNA evidence is all that is required.

Wrong. The DNA results in and of themselves prove sex not rape or murder.

Edit to answer your edit. You need to work on those critical thinking skills and look into DNA evidence limitations particularly regarding legal issues.

Edited October 26, 2014 by jdinasia

[englishoak]

lets just take the DNA claims of seamen etc as no more than that, claims.

The confirmation will have to wait until its agreed to.

in the meantime the UKP will do what they do within the diplomatic remit they have.

You and I are not and will not be privy to that so we'll have to wait and see.

[retsdon]

I have this suspicion that the DNA matches are less than conclusive. And that's being charitable.

If there is a DNA match at all, why do you think it would not be conclusive?

I assume there are 2 and they are conclusive.

Why would it not be conclusive? Because it very seldom is, is why. And that's why the British Crown Prosecution Service categorically states that it will never bring a case to court on DNA evidence alone. The interpretation of DNA matching is too subjective to ensure a reliable conviction.

Do a Google search on 'DNA reliability' or ' is DNA testing sometimes wrong', etc, etc. there's reams of stuff out there on it.

[RustBucket]

I have this suspicion that the DNA matches are less than conclusive. And that's being charitable.

If there is a DNA match at all, why do you think it would not be conclusive?

I assume there are 2 and they are conclusive.

So why no prosecution?

In any other country, conclusive DNA evidence is all that is required.

Wrong. The DNA results in and of themselves prove sex not rape or murder.

Edit to answer your edit. You need to work on those critical thinking skills and look into DNA evidence limitations particularly regarding legal issues.

Hahahahaha.

You are now totally floundering.

DNA in this case does not prove rape or murder?

Can others in this thread comment on this just to make sure I am right to be laughing my head off now/

[seahorse]

Jdinasia is actually right for once. The semen found in/on Hannah's body could have been as a result of necrophilia rather than rape. It certainly does not prove that it belonged to the murderer(s). Maybe jdinasia knows more than he is letting on? He lives on / spends a lot of time on Koh Tao. Perhaps he knows some "top" people there?

Now answer this jd / johnthailandjohn / pattaya46 etc.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/

Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon.

He is the brother of a village headman in Koh Tao.

He was arrested after evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved, he said.

He also said another suspect is also a son of that village headman. But he has already to Bangkok.

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

He said the southern police were coordinating with the metropolitan police to hunt him down, and expected to apprehend him today.

Why was he not hunted down and apprehended? What happened?

I won't hold my breath

Edited October 26, 2014 by seahorse

[jdinasia]

I have this suspicion that the DNA matches are less than conclusive. And that's being charitable.

If there is a DNA match at all, why do you think it would not be conclusive?

I assume there are 2 and they are conclusive.

So why no prosecution?

In any other country, conclusive DNA evidence is all that is required.

Wrong. The DNA results in and of themselves prove sex not rape or murder.

Edit to answer your edit. You need to work on those critical thinking skills and look into DNA evidence limitations particularly regarding legal issues.

Hahahahaha.

You are now totally floundering.

DNA in this case does not prove rape or murder?

Can others in this thread comment on this just to make sure I am right to be laughing my head off now/

No it doesn't prove rape. I thought you prided yourself on logic.

Foreign semen proves sex only. The killers/rapists could claim it was consensual. That the murders etc happened after they left. Unlikely to work in court in Thailand, but has worked with juries.

[jdinasia]

Jdinasia is actually right for once. The semen found in/on Hannah's body could have been as a result of necrophilia rather than rape. It certainly does not prove that it belonged to the murderer(s). Maybe jdinasia knows more than he is letting on? He lives on / spends a lot of time on Koh Tao. Perhaps he knows some "top" people there?

Now answer this jd / johnthailandjohn / pattaya46 etc.

http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/one-tourist-murder-suspect-now-arrested-another-run/

Eighth Region Police Command commissioner Pol Lt-Gen Panya Mamen identified the first suspect as Mon.

He is the brother of a village headman in Koh Tao.

He was arrested after evidence which police collected were examined and proved he was involved, he said.

He also said another suspect is also a son of that village headman. But he has already to Bangkok.

He said both suspects were captured by CCTV cameras and the police have gathered enough evidence to implicate them in the murders.

He said the southern police were coordinating with the metropolitan police to hunt him down, and expected to apprehend him today.

Why was he not hunted down and apprehended? What happened?

I won't hold my breath

Scroll up in the thread. Has already been answered.

[MJP]

A post containing a link to the CSI LA Facebook page has been removed.

Whilst the CSI LA Facebook page is not considered a reliable source of news by Thai Visa, if the post on CSI LA is linking to a reliable news source like a national or international newspaper site you are quite welcome to go to that source and link that instead.

News sources must also be published in the English language as this is an English language forum.

Please. No more CSI LA links or quotes. They will just keep getting removed by moderators.

[MJP]

Another unsubstantiated rumour mongering post has been removed.

[Krenjai]

Another unsubstantiated rumour mongering post has been removed.

Well that unsubstantiated rumor was actually reported by the RTP themselves

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Koh-Tao-police-fail-another-day-30243890.html

"Some fishermen fishing off Kanom district in Nakhon Si Thammarat province alerted police that they found a Thai man on a speedboat named "Little Duck" speeding south from Koh Pha Ngan. The man stopped by and asked for directions to Naiprao Island in the district. But he changed direction to Pakpanang district in the same province after his boat encountered a marine police boat on Naiprao beach."

So again, who own a Speedboat called Little DUck?