Phuket Immigration tightens visitor notification rules

[Liquorice]

Jaggg88, on 29 Oct 2014 - 06:14, said:

Khun Paul, on 28 Oct 2014 - 14:47, said:

Yes amazing theyt are talking about VISITORS, not the ones who are resident here. maybe some posters need to learn to read before opening mouths and putting their collective foots in them.

Perhaps its you who needs to read the OP as the second line says 'They explained that checks will be made whenever a foreigner requests an extension of stay in Thailand.' Well extension of stay includes just about all of us all so I suggest its your foot that is removed before your next post.

It has always been the case to inform immigration that an alien is staying in your property - I forget which form it is as we have never bothered or been asked to do it. I understand how this would work for short stay visitors in hotels etc but it seems unnecessary for aliens who report every 90 days and supply this information already.

TM 30 for the home or establishment owner to report.

TM 28 for the alien to report.

In certain cases this could be the same person. As in an alien homeowner.

Whether a tourist on a Visa or someone who resides here permanently on an extension of stay, we are all 'temporary' under the Act and therefore need to report our addresses, just as the homeowner has to report our temporary stay in a their property.

Only those with 'Permanent residency' are exempt these rules, as Maestro earlier pointed out.

[Liquorice]

The rules aren't 'poppycock' and just made up to provide money for the BIB.

The rules are their for a reason.

How many times do we read of a conflict in another Country. Syria as one example. How do you think the foreign Embassies in Syria were able to contact their citizens and warn them to leave.................via their Immigration network and reported addresses.

I posted an experience I had in another topic recently.

I was in China during the massive Sichuan earthquake in 2008. Like Thailand, address reporting is also a regulation in China.

The news was flashed around the world and their were grave concerns for the well being of foreign visitors.

In China, power lines, water supplies, communication networks were all down for days. Unknown to me, back in the UK my family were contacted by the Home Office, who have 'duty of care' for all overseas British citizens. They wanted to know if my family had heard from me..........well obviously not, it just wasn't possible given the tragic events of what happened.

I was staying with friends in a private home, not a hotel, but I'd followed the procedures for reporting my address.

4 days after the earthquake, the Police arrived where I was staying to confirm my location and safety.

They traced me through Immigration records, but the request came from the British Embassy in China.

My family were notified of my safety a day later, much to their relief.

The point it that Thailand doesn't make up these rules for fun, it has a political obligation to other nations to track the citizens of foreigners in the event of an emergency or conflict. They are in place to protect your wellbeing, believe it or not.

Edited October 29, 2014 by Faz

[Liquorice]

Stray, on 29 Oct 2014 - 02:05, said:

Faz, on 28 Oct 2014 - 18:02, said:

Immigration Act B.E. 2522

Chapter 4

Temporary Stay in the Kingdom

Section 37 : An alien having received a temporary entry permit into the Kingdom must comply with the

following :

1. Shall not engage in the occupation or temporary or employment unless authorized by the

Director General. or competent official deputized by the Director General . If , in any case , there is a law

concerning alien employment provided hereafter , the granting of work privileges must comply with the

law concerned.

2. Shall stay at the place as indicated to the competent official. Where there is proper reason

that he cannot stay at the place as indicated to the competent official, he shall notify the competent official

of the change in residence , within 24 hours from the time of removing to said place.

3. Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within twenty

– four hours from the time of arrival. In the case of change in residence in which new residence is not

located the same area with the former police stations , such alien must notify the police official of the

police station for that area within twenty – four hours from the time of arrival.

4. If the alien travels to any province and will stay there longer than twenty – four hours , such

alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within forty – eight hours from the time

of arrival.

5. If the alien stays in the Kingdom longer than ninety days, such alien must notify the

competent official at the Immigration Division , in writing , concerning his place of stay , as soon as

possible upon expiration of ninety days. The alien is required to do so every ninety days. Where there is

an Immigration Office , the alien may notify a competent Immigration Official of that office.

The provision of ( 3 ) and ( 4 ) shall not apply to any cases under Section 34 by any conditions as

prescribed by the Director General.

In making notification under this Section , the alien may make notification in person or send a

letter of notification to the competent official , in accordance with the regulations prescribed by the

Director General .

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager

where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the

competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or

hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned. If there is no Immigration Office

located in that area , the local police official for that area must be notified.

Section 76 details the fines for foreigners and owners for not complying.

5000 baht for the foreigner and 200 baht a day until he reports his address.

The homeowner gets of lightly.

Sarcasm on -

No wonder the local police had no idea what I was talking about (no immigration offices in this area). I've just reread this post regarding the rules and see it only applies to male visitors to the Kingdom.

- Sarcasm off.

The serious point of my post is that the local police did not understand the requirements of TM30, laughed and told me that it's only required in tourist areas. As such, they wouldn't accept the form and told me not to worry about it.

So much for following the 'rules'.

I got the sarcastic bit Stray, even though others missed it! The Act refers to 'aliens', you being a woman, only men are regarded as 'aliens'

I had no such problem with the Police in Roi Et. (I moved to a new house) Completed TM28 and TM30 from my landlady. My address was registered on their database and they issued a letter confirming my new address. On my next 90 day report I filled out another TM 28 to notify Immigration along with the letter from Roi Et Police station...............no problems at all.

[laislica]

Jaggg88, on 29 Oct 2014 - 06:14, said:

Khun Paul, on 28 Oct 2014 - 14:47, said:

Yes amazing theyt are talking about VISITORS, not the ones who are resident here. maybe some posters need to learn to read before opening mouths and putting their collective foots in them.

Perhaps its you who needs to read the OP as the second line says 'They explained that checks will be made whenever a foreigner requests an extension of stay in Thailand.' Well extension of stay includes just about all of us all so I suggest its your foot that is removed before your next post.

It has always been the case to inform immigration that an alien is staying in your property - I forget which form it is as we have never bothered or been asked to do it. I understand how this would work for short stay visitors in hotels etc but it seems unnecessary for aliens who report every 90 days and supply this information already.

TM 30 for the home or establishment owner to report.

TM 28 for the alien to report.

In certain cases this could be the same person. As in an alien homeowner.

Whether a tourist on a Visa or someone who resides here permanently on an extension of stay, we are all 'temporary' under the Act and therefore need to report our addresses, just as the homeowner has to report our temporary stay in a their property.

Only those with 'Permanent residency' are exempt these rules, as Maestro earlier pointed out.

Quote

Whether a tourist on a Visa or someone who resides here permanently on an extension of stay, we are all 'temporary' under the Act and therefore need to report our addresses, just as the homeowner has to report our temporary stay in a their property.

Quote

Perhaps the word permanently adds to the confusions little.

If it were changed to 'stay in Thailand all the time'.........

As you pointed out, permanent residency is a whole different thing and is hard/expensive to obtain.

Anyway, a great series of posts with full info and no conjecture.....

Thanks

[louse1953]

"notifications can be made online"................just as long as you can read and write Thai that is.

Seeing Thai's run hotels here,this shouldn't be a problem.

[louse1953]

They are only interested in the money, B1600. Has nothing to do with fixing any problems. It is just another of many shake downs.

Well,you are right,but not what you think,it's all about tax avoidance.

[louse1953]

They are only interested in the money, B1600. Has nothing to do with fixing any problems. It is just another of many shake downs.

Are the bars closed in Phuket? The rather frantic, accusatory, foul-mouthed posts in this thread seem even more maniacal than usual, suggesting a collective withdrawal from something.

Some of you need to use one of these pacifiers for a few minutes, it may help you relax and regain perspective.

Please tell us what purpose this serves ? Is it to protect Thais from foreigners or the other way around ?

It is to protect us from ourselves.

[louse1953]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

When the hell is this stupid shit going to stop. We report our address every 90 days and at extension of stay. What the hell else do these idiots want. They have computers update are address at the time of reporting and extending stay.

The Thai Gestapo. Soon we'll all have to wear yellow stars on our clothes.

Better to tatoo I Am a DH,on your forehead,to give us a warning about you.

[Goldieinkathu]

They are only interested in the money, B1600. Has nothing to do with fixing any problems. It is just another of many shake downs.

Well,you are right,but not what you think,it's all about tax avoidance.

I doubt very much it's to do with tax avoidance. Immigration has nothing to do with the tax office and to my knowledge do not share information, as with the police.

The new tax due to come into effect next year on homes and land will take care of tax avoidance.

There are many reasons this law makes sense, I don't know what everyone's getting their knickers in a twist for.

[louse1953]

This a bit of a problem as say in my case where the house the wife and I live in is owned by her.

When I go to do an extension the Immo officer will fine her for not advising them and iwillhave to pay that fine i will have to pay as i am the only source of income.

There may be plenty of guys like that even though there will also be plenty where the non thai national lease or rents the home abode where they live.

Its a nightmare. Do I make a special run with the wife in tow to lodge the completed form or lodge it when next doing my extension.

Either way its like open season on us for tea money. They have even said how much the tea money it will be.

No,its open season on tax avoiders and wives that don't fill out the right form,and fined for non complience.Your wife is already breaking the law,so might as well wait.The nightmare is all of your own making for not know the conditions of your visa.You are paying for your ignorance,if you want to contribute to Immi Loy Kratong fund im sure it will be appreciated.

[louse1953]

Thanks stevenl, I love sarcasm as well.

The issue is that they will fine her because its been years like most in my situation since me and others took up residence.

Your address is on your 90 day report,which is in the database.Unless they ask for it,don't offer it.

[louse1953]

This a bit of a problem as say in my case where the house the wife and I live in is owned by her.

When I go to do an extension the Immo officer will fine her for not advising them and iwillhave to pay that fine i will have to pay as i am the only source of income.

There may be plenty of guys like that even though there will also be plenty where the non thai national lease or rents the home abode where they live.

Its a nightmare. Do I make a special run with the wife in tow to lodge the completed form or lodge it when next doing my extension.

Either way its like open season on us for tea money. They have even said how much the tea money it will be.

Filled in the forms myself,

got the wife to sign and took them to immigration, seemed easy enough to me.

What forms, 90 day reporting has to be enough.

At my Immi. no forms,just say yes,twice,whilst looking at computer screen.See you in 3 months lads.

[sgtsabai]

Excuse me all the mr high and mighty all rightious here. How is a thai wife/partner supposed to know about something like this? She has never delt with immigration or immigration rules before in her life. Except for Thai hotels etc. most Thais wouldn't have a clue as to TM 30 or TM 28, which aside from a chickenshit fine for homeowner not knowing or filling out TM 30 is the real problem. Immigration asked her to fill out TM 30 last yr. at extension of stay time, no problem. They knew she wouldn't have a clue. No fine, nor should there have been one. If the government is after hotel etc. owners to do what they are supposed to do fine, if they want TM 30 from house owners fine also, just do it without the chickenshit fine. Simple, just like it was for us. No, I don't fill out TM 28 and I can't express my contempt for that piece of crap, at least not here.

[LivinginKata]

More off topic posts have been removed.

[Liquorice]

laislica, on 29 Oct 2014 - 14:16, said:

Faz, on 29 Oct 2014 - 08:57, said:

Jaggg88, on 29 Oct 2014 - 06:14, said:

Jaggg88, on 29 Oct 2014 - 06:14, said:

Khun Paul, on 28 Oct 2014 - 14:47, said:

Khun Paul, on 28 Oct 2014 - 14:47, said:

Yes amazing theyt are talking about VISITORS, not the ones who are resident here. maybe some posters need to learn to read before opening mouths and putting their collective foots in them.

Perhaps its you who needs to read the OP as the second line says 'They explained that checks will be made whenever a foreigner requests an extension of stay in Thailand.' Well extension of stay includes just about all of us all so I suggest its your foot that is removed before your next post.

It has always been the case to inform immigration that an alien is staying in your property - I forget which form it is as we have never bothered or been asked to do it. I understand how this would work for short stay visitors in hotels etc but it seems unnecessary for aliens who report every 90 days and supply this information already.

TM 30 for the home or establishment owner to report.

TM 28 for the alien to report.

In certain cases this could be the same person. As in an alien homeowner.

Whether a tourist on a Visa or someone who resides here permanently on an extension of stay, we are all 'temporary' under the Act and therefore need to report our addresses, just as the homeowner has to report our temporary stay in a their property.

Only those with 'Permanent residency' are exempt these rules, as Maestro earlier pointed out.

Quote

Whether a tourist on a Visa or someone who resides here permanently on an extension of stay, we are all 'temporary' under the Act and therefore need to report our addresses, just as the homeowner has to report our temporary stay in a their property.

Quote

Perhaps the word permanently adds to the confusions little.

If it were changed to 'stay in Thailand all the time'.........

As you pointed out, permanent residency is a whole different thing and is hard/expensive to obtain.

Anyway, a great series of posts with full info and no conjecture.....

Thanks

I think the confusion are the words 'residency' and 'resident', that many tend to wrongly read.

A foreigner given the status of a 'resident' has worked or invested to achieve that privilege.

Many of us have 'permanent residency' as in living here, but regardless of Visa or Extension we are still only allowed to remain no longer than 90 days without either getting a new Visa or reporting to an Immigration office.

[Liquorice]

sgtsabai, on 29 Oct 2014 - 15:29, said:

Excuse me all the mr high and mighty all rightious here. How is a thai wife/partner supposed to know about something like this? She has never delt with immigration or immigration rules before in her life. Except for Thai hotels etc. most Thais wouldn't have a clue as to TM 30 or TM 28, which aside from a chickenshit fine for homeowner not knowing or filling out TM 30 is the real problem. Immigration asked her to fill out TM 30 last yr. at extension of stay time, no problem. They knew she wouldn't have a clue. No fine, nor should there have been one. If the government is after hotel etc. owners to do what they are supposed to do fine, if they want TM 30 from house owners fine also, just do it without the chickenshit fine. Simple, just like it was for us. No, I don't fill out TM 28 and I can't express my contempt for that piece of crap, at least not here.

Your quite correct, how would your wife be expected to know.

The answer is you!

Your the migrant, your the one who chose to live here, it's your responsibility to make yourself aware of the Immigration rules of Thailand.

You only need to fill out a TM28 if you move address.

[JetsetBkk]

Yes amazing theyt are talking about VISITORS, not the ones who are resident here. maybe some posters need to learn to read before opening mouths and putting their collective foots in them.

"Foots" - you mean "feet"?

Ah! A teecher.

[louse1953]

Johnnie99, on 28 Oct 2014 - 14:15, said:

Mango Bob, on 28 Oct 2014 - 12:50, said:

When the hell is this stupid shit going to stop. We report our address every 90 days and at extension of stay. What the hell else do these idiots want. They have computers update are address at the time of reporting and extending stay.

Oh dear. Don't like it? Go home.

Want to live in their country? Abide by their rules.

And get killed by their crap drivers?

Out of order J99, everyone should complain about stupidity.

Page 7 and hugh is still not in know,now that's what i call stupid.

[simon43]

Having recently opened another guesthouse, I visited immigration to register for a user name and password to report guest details online, (I already completed this procedure a few years ago for my other hotels).

But the immigration office who handles these registrations refused to accept my personal registration and told me that the application now had to be completed online.

Here's the registration webpage:

http://extranet.immigration.go.th/pibics/FilterNoLogonServlet?nodeId=24&programId=FNHOTELREG

Now I have tested this webpage in several different browsers, and I have to ask

"where is the form submit button?"

'cos it don't appear on my browsers, and it is not an 'auto-submit' form either that submits to the processing script when you press your carriage return key.

I'm stuck! Can anyone manage to get a form submit button to appear???

(Right now, I am emailing guest details to the immigration office, as required by the rules. But I am pretty sure that these details are not being added manually to their database).

[louse1953]

They are only interested in the money, B1600. Has nothing to do with fixing any problems. It is just another of many shake downs.

Well,you are right,but not what you think,it's all about tax avoidance.

I doubt very much it's to do with tax avoidance. Immigration has nothing to do with the tax office and to my knowledge do not share information, as with the police.

The new tax due to come into effect next year on homes and land will take care of tax avoidance.

There are many reasons this law makes sense, I don't know what everyone's getting their knickers in a twist for.

Tax on tourists in hotels,which would not be paid,if not on the books.This happens to me quite often,but not my problem.

[sgtsabai]

No my smug self righteous friend, if you are out of your province for 24 hrs. YOU have to fill out TM 28. I never have and I don't. It has nothing to do with change of permanent address. And I did know about TM 30, immigration didn't require until we went for last extension of stay. Sunday school is on sunday btw, bet you go, sheeple.

[louse1953]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

When the hell is this stupid shit going to stop. We report our address every 90 days and at extension of stay. What the hell else do these idiots want. They have computers update are address at the time of reporting and extending stay.

The Thai Gestapo. Soon we'll all have to wear yellow stars on our clothes.

Jai yen yen- yah jai rawn (keep your cool relax don't get heated)

In most countries of the world if you stay in a hotel as a foreigner it is the law that the hotel has to collect your passport/visa details and keep them so they are available to the authorities. In some places the police routinely collect the data on a daily basis. I have always been amazed that the Thais don't do this as a matter of course. It takes the onus off the traveller and puts the responsibility onto the hotelier and the authorities to keep tabs.

What you suggest is already happening,so why be amazed.I am amazed you haven't comprehended plain English

[louse1953]

again it is only money!

If the law is broken,a fine is paid,same as every country in the world.So your point is what!

[louse1953]

"They explained that checks will be made whenever a foreigner requests an extension of stay in Thailand. If the place where they are staying is not found in the notification system, the owner or manager will be fined B1,600."

I don't know why any foreigners here are getting upset. It is not aimed at the foreigner but the owner of where they stay. I am curious how some owners would even know what to do. If a foreigner is renting a place how does the owner know that he/she has to report it? It is not like they will frequently go to Immigration offices, check government links or forums like this. There are no public information commercials on TV or in the media as far as I know.

You are SO right. 6 months ago my wife was scolded by the immigration officer for not reporting my presence. He threatened to fine her 10,000 baht but did not. Her response was "How was I supposed to know this?" He had no answer.

I have seen other details somewhere - TV? - that state that if I leave her house, she must inform them. To me this is where it really gets screwy. I had to get a re-entry permit or lose my extension of stay. Then I was documented leaving Thailand - then I was documented returning some weeks later. Supposedly SHE should have informed them EACH TIME. She only did the form once though. Anyone looking for logic here will be sorely disappointed.

If it's a commercial property it is their concern.Yes your wife can claim ignorance,but seeing it is your visa,it is your responcibility.You are using a computer,and have all the info at your fingertips.

[louse1953]

Bad foreigners.

Not at all. Only lazy landlords and hotels/guesthouses who don't register their foreign guests.

Don't think that,it's all to do with tax avoidance.

[louse1953]

The necessity for reporting by a landlord or whatever of a foreigner living in his property has always been the case. I own a condo in Pattaya and I informed Immigration of the details to whom it is rented on the day he moved in in 2011. When it was re-let earlier this year I went through the same process. Very simple and straightforward so why all the hysterical outbursts? Maybe by reporting that a property is let landlords are frightened of being required to pay tax on the income. If tax is payable then it must be paid.

Finally,in a field of dross,somebody that knows what they are talking about.

[louse1953]

The bureaucracy in Thailand will be soon bigger then in India, and this means a lot! Much more easy in Cambodia, Malaysia, Indonesia. In Malaysia, you get 90 days visa-free entry instead of 30 only in Thailand. In hotels and GH you just present your passport, the rest is the owner's duty. In normal countries you pay the hotel at the end of your stay, in Thailand they want money even before they show you the room.

Page 6,and AA,is still not with the program.Haven't you read anything on this thread.Thailand is even easier,many places i dont even show pp and money is alway paid at end.I like to pay every 5 days,just to keep track.Maybe your eyes are too close together.If you like those other countries so much,why arnt you there,instead of this abnormal country.

[louse1953]

Some easily excited posters seem to think Immigrations wants tourists or foreign residents to do something more. The regulation referred to is the one requiring hotels, guest houses, etc to report the presence of foreign guests.

The master, owner or possessor of a residence, or the hotel manager where the alien, having receiving permission to stay temporarily in the Kingdom, is lodging, must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area within 24 hours of the time of arrival of the foreigner concerned.

Maybe before throwing a hissy fit, it would be a good idea to read what was written in the O/P.

But this also applies to personal residences too, right? The article says, "staying in hotels, villas or homes in Thailand", and I've previously read that this does include tourists staying in the house of a friend. A real hassle. My understanding is that technically, whenever I come to Thailand and spend some time at my girlfriend's place, and her family's, and then friends... all of them are supposed to notify their local police of my presence. That will make me real popular. Or am I wrong about my interpretation?

You are correct in your interpretation,but,like anywhere some tiresome laws are ignored.This is one of them.Some Immi offices inforce it,some dont.TIT.

[Liquorice]

simon43, on 29 Oct 2014 - 16:59, said:simon43, on 29 Oct 2014 - 16:59, said:

Having recently opened another guesthouse, I visited immigration to register for a user name and password to report guest details online, (I already completed this procedure a few years ago for my other hotels).

But the immigration office who handles these registrations refused to accept my personal registration and told me that the application now had to be completed online.

Here's the registration webpage:

http://extranet.immigration.go.th/pibics/FilterNoLogonServlet?nodeId=24&programId=FNHOTELREG

Now I have tested this webpage in several different browsers, and I have to ask

"where is the form submit button?"

'cos it don't appear on my browsers, and it is not an 'auto-submit' form either that submits to the processing script when you press your carriage return key.

I'm stuck! Can anyone manage to get a form submit button to appear???

(Right now, I am emailing guest details to the immigration office, as required by the rules. But I am pretty sure that these details are not being added manually to their database).

Hi Simon, I get 3 buttons to select top right hand corner.

Record /Cancelled / Out

Just guessing 'Record' is to submit and register your guests.

'Out' is when they leave and check out.

'Cancelled' ??? Mmmmm, if they cancelled you wouldn't 'record' their stay. Ah! It's to confuse you

Edited October 29, 2014 by Faz

[LivinginKata]

simon43, on 29 Oct 2014 - 16:59, said:

Having recently opened another guesthouse, I visited immigration to register for a user name and password to report guest details online, (I already completed this procedure a few years ago for my other hotels).

But the immigration office who handles these registrations refused to accept my personal registration and told me that the application now had to be completed online.

Here's the registration webpage:

http://extranet.immigration.go.th/pibics/FilterNoLogonServlet?nodeId=24&programId=FNHOTELREG

Now I have tested this webpage in several different browsers, and I have to ask

"where is the form submit button?"

'cos it don't appear on my browsers, and it is not an 'auto-submit' form either that submits to the processing script when you press your carriage return key.

I'm stuck! Can anyone manage to get a form submit button to appear???

(Right now, I am emailing guest details to the immigration office, as required by the rules. But I am pretty sure that these details are not being added manually to their database).

Hi Simon, I get 3 buttons to select top right hand corner.

Record /Cancelled / Out

Just guessing 'Record' is to submit and register your guests.

'Out' is when they leave and check out.

'Cancelled' ???

Have to use Explorer 7 or 8. Any other browser does not work. It's quite tricky as all in Thai, but I can register guests on-line OK. You have to input each guest (bottom of page button, then when all guests for that day entered, press the record button at the top right for all guests to be entered into Imm data base..

But seems like Simon is trying to register his guesthouse. I can't help with that form.