UN political chief criticizes Israel for new settlement plans

[japsportscarmad]

You will note my post above where I am happy to condemn terrorist acts carried out by Hamas, perhaps then you will join me by condemning the terrorist act on the St David's hotel?

Hamas are not heroes and nor were the PLO or Arafat, but they are in fact a symptom of the current situation. If you were suddenly forced to move your home without any thought or compensation would you just give up and go? And wether you like it or not that is the situation many Arabs are in and are continuing to be in.

You are correct about Arab opposition for an Isreali state which has persisted over the years, but it is a two way street, and unfortunately Isreal seems to be loosing suport and the new boycott campaigns seem to be having some effect rightly or wrongly. Isreal will also have to lie in its bed it creates particularly over settlements and further encroachment into the occupied territories, as the international tide of unconditional suport is unfortunately slowly turning against it. The political situation in America has also changed and unless the Republicans win next time which is quiet possible then it looks like the tide will be up on the beach. The Palestinian supporters are also getting better at handling social media and publicising their claims which as we saw with the recent incursions into Gaza didn't help Israel at all, particularly when they claimed they were hitting Hamas arms dumps (which were their intended targets I do not doubt) then they hit a UN compound full of refugees effectively under pseudo UN protection.

It's a mess and I am not sure there is a good answer that can or will be applied, as emotions run very high on both sides as can be seen even in our little forum.

Edited October 30, 2014 by japsportscarmad

[Seastallion]

Sweden did the right thing,rest of the Europa needs to follow and recognize Palestine.

No need to consult Israel, eh?

Not sure what this "right thing" is supposed to be for, because it's certainly not at all helpful to bringing about a peaceful two state solution.

The most popular party in West Bank and Gaza is radical Jihadist terrorist Hamas and the majority of "Palestinians" are in favor of violence against Israel.

It's hilarious to me that European "liberal progressives" think doing the "right thing" is to give further international credibility to the incredibly non-progressive Hamas movement. Even funnier when Jews, gays, and feminist women fall for this trendy "Free Palestine River to the sea" Hamas movement, in other words wipe out Israel. Understood from Islamists, of course, welcome to Middle East politics.

This is a recipe for more war, much more war. Thank you very much, Sweden, and it's ilk.

Also while I don't agree with building more "settlements" people are deluding themselves if that actually believe that stopping new settlements would mean most Palestinians would magically recognize the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state. The settlements issue is a crutch. Look at what happened when Israel left Gaza, did that bring peace? Duh.

Hamas is at present the most popular simply because of Israeli aggression.

Gaza is still considered to be an occupied territory because Israel completely controls it's airspace and borders. They didn't really leave.

It's not just a matter of stopping the settlements. It's a matter of relinquishing a hold on all occupied land. Duh.

[Lissos]

You will note my post above where I am happy to condemn terrorist acts carried out by Hamas, perhaps then you will join me by condemning the

terrorist act on the St David's hotel? Hamas are not heroes and nor were the PLO or Arafat, but they are in fact a symptom of the current situation.

Putting myself in the shoes of the Irgun for a moment for the purposes of this post, my answer is no I don't condemn the attack on the King David.

Because, as a passionate member of Irgun for the purposes of this post, it was deemed absolutely nescessary at the time as part of our campaign of directly targetting the esssential infrastructure of the British obstruction, in order to paralyse its functioning and cause them to leave, for it had become evident that the British administration here and in London had mixed loyaltys and was playing a double game with everyone. We created ourselves in 31 in direct response to various events like the Nebi Musa Riots of 1920, the Jaffa Riots of 1921, and the 1929 Massacres. We watched formal more diplomatic branches of Zionism only dithering in response from the safety of their discussion rooms, talking shops merely writing resolutions, toothless to protects Jews (Sabra and recent arrivals) out on the streets from the violent rabble roused by hardcore Arab Nationalists.

We saw worse unfold in the 1936-1939 Arab Riots, with Jews murdered and the British also targetted by rioting Arabs. We saw the British brutally crush this rebellion but then in its wake ultimately 'reward' the Arabs deeds by creating the 1939 White Paper, a document that was essentially abandoning the Balfour Declaration and choosing to severely limit any further Jewish immigration. In this document, we saw the British attempting to change horses in mid stream at a time when world Jewry needed a haven the most, the British clearly turning their back on an earlier course.

Now we're on our own, and to survive we must gather arms while we still can, because we know full well what is coming if we don't do so. Brutalised in Ukraine and other parts of Europe, we are people in no position to trust any platitudes from above anymore, so we must take destiny and the destiny of other Jews into our own hands. The 1939 White Paper only proved that the British have chosen to appease rioting Arabs out of fear of future uprising. In the case of the King David, our intention was not to murder people but to switch off the nerve centre of the British from which operations are launched to confiscate the weaponry we require to protect ourselves when the inevitable happens, the war between the agendas of local Arab Nationalists, Arab states and Jewish Nationalism. Our warnings were sent to several locations, but no evacuation of the hotel took place.

Hamas are not heroes and nor were the PLO or Arafat

Hamas, Hezbollah, all are seen as heroes. I recall seeing a Hezbollah exhibition in Lebanon once, a collection of personal items in glass pyramids draped in the Hezbollah flag, accompanied by a photo of each Shaheed (Martyr). Cash, sunglasses, prayer beads, family photos, all everyday items of a person. In Israel, the activities of militias like Irgun and Lehi are similarly viewed favourably today in the overall mythology as seers in a sense, even if at the time the formal Zionist organisations tried to distance themselves from them. Once the British upped and left, those militias were largely vindicated because there was an almost immediate attempt to wipe the Jews, and Arab states trying grab as much of the former British Mandate for themselves (which they did), rather than capture any for local Arab nationalists. In Nablus today, there are posters of local shaheed all over the walls of the old city, dramatic posters of young men with 'hardman' faces holding weaponry, images that that resemble hollywood hero movie posters in nature. As I say, it depends where people are standing at the time. Our opinion on their activies, as outsiders, is irrelevant really.

If you were suddenly forced to move your home without any thought or compensation would you just give up and go?

In the middle east and further afield, the Jihad (which it has become, rather than plain old Arab nationalism) fully intends to force generations of native born Israelis out of the only land they've ever known, the only homes they've ever known. For Israelis, they don't see themselves as some kind of ill fitting newbie military presence to be rooted out. For them, it is home. As you say, would you just give up and go? No. None of us would. Nor do countless Arabs view themselves as an inconvenience, obstacles in the way. For this reason, everyone takes decisions and carries out actions they believe will assist them. We can agree on one point, that whatever bed each side makes for themselves, they will have to lie in it.

[NeverSure]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The so-called Palestine has never been a nation/state. The reason it isn't accepted is because it's a terrorist group. There was the PLO under Arafat and there is Hamas...

Try that one out on the UK or the US. Settle a bunch of terrorists on the border who lob rockets in and commit themselves to the destruction of the UK or US.

Now watch and see what happens.

70% of UN member states recognise the "so called" state of Palestine. Even the Pope does.

I wonder how the native Americans felt about those white guys who first rocked up on the shores of the new world all those years ago. At least the Palestinians have been there for thousands of years. Seems only fair that they would like a home of their own, after all the whole area was known as Palestine before the UN created the so called state of Israel in 1947.

Sent from my KFTT using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

The so-called Palestine has never been a nation/state. The reason it isn't accepted is because it's a terrorist group. There was the PLO under Arafat and there is Hamas...

Try that one out on the UK or the US. Settle a bunch of terrorists on the border who lob rockets in and commit themselves to the destruction of the UK or US.

Now watch and see what happens.

Do you know how the current State of Israel was formed?

Do you know how many British people and Palestinians were murdered by cowardly zionist terrorists I won't use the word jew as they were zionists although were of the Jewish faith. Furthermore, these terrorist cowards are revered as heros in Israel, have never faced prison or sanction but we're clearly cowards and murderers.

Do you know Palestine was a state before modern Israel was even conceived yes a state with laws and rules and general peace where Christians, Arabs and Jews lived together without too much trouble at all, shared the resources and respected the law, under British rule.

I best tell you so everyone knows a little about how the current conflict originated and why there is hatred.

Prior to the establishment of Israel, a terror (note the word terror) campaign against the British authority and Palestinian Arabs was carried out predominantly by two semi paramilitary organisations that supported Revisionist Zionist ideologies: Etzel (Irgun) and Lehi (Stern Gang). Both groups reflected the view of Zeev Jabotinsky that a sovereign Jewish state had to be created on both sides of the Jordan River, through violence or any means required.

Furthermore between 1939 and 1942, Etzel carried out over 60 terrorist attacks, killing more than 120 Palestinians and maiming hundreds more. In order to hasten British departure from Palestine. Significantly, Lehi operatives assassinated Lord Moyne, the minister resident in the Middle East, on November 6, 1944, in Cairo. On July 26, 1946, explosives planted by Etzel agents leveled the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, the administrative center of the British Mandatory authority, killing 91 Britons and injuring close to 500 people.

Who are the real terrorists? one mans terrorist is another mans hero and if someone had stolen my land, houses, farm, factory I might be a little more than just unhappy. Isreal always uses the rocket attacks as defence of its policies. However, in reality most of the rockets are little more than big fireworks that do little damage.

You might not like it but you can't re write history :-)

You guys have it all backwards. There never was a country called Palestine nor was there ever a people called Palestinians until those people began to call themselves that after WWII. They have not been there even 75 years much less thousands.

There was a region called Palestine which encompassed all or part of several countries but never such a country or people.

It is Israel which is in the historical record for at least 3,000 years.

It is these so-called Palestinians who have terrorist leaders and are committed to the destruction of Israel.

[Ulysses G.]

Putting myself in the shoes of the Irgun for a moment for the purposes of this post, my answer is no I don't condemn the attack on the King David.

The King David was British Army headquarters. The Irgun were not targeting a normal "hotel".

[Ulysses G.]

Do you know Palestine was a state before modern Israel was even conceived

You are dead wrong. There has NEVER been an independent Arab state called "Palestine" in recorded history.

[japsportscarmad]

You will note my post above where I am happy to condemn terrorist acts carried out by Hamas, perhaps then you will join me by condemning the

terrorist act on the St David's hotel? Hamas are not heroes and nor were the PLO or Arafat, but they are in fact a symptom of the current situation.

Putting myself in the shoes of the Irgun for a moment for the purposes of this post, my answer is no I don't condemn the attack on the King David.

Because, as a passionate member of Irgun for the purposes of this post, it was deemed absolutely nescessary at the time as part of our campaign of directly targetting the esssential infrastructure of the British obstruction, in order to paralyse its functioning and cause them to leave, for it had become evident that the British administration here and in London had mixed loyaltys and was playing a double game with everyone. We created ourselves in 31 in direct response to various events like the Nebi Musa Riots of 1920, the Jaffa Riots of 1921, and the 1929 Massacres. We watched formal more diplomatic branches of Zionism only dithering in response from the safety of their discussion rooms, talking shops merely writing resolutions, toothless to protects Jews (Sabra and recent arrivals) out on the streets from the violent rabble roused by hardcore Arab Nationalists.

We saw worse unfold in the 1936-1939 Arab Riots, with Jews murdered and the British also targetted by rioting Arabs. We saw the British brutally crush this rebellion but then in its wake ultimately 'reward' the Arabs deeds by creating the 1939 White Paper, a document that was essentially abandoning the Balfour Declaration and choosing to severely limit any further Jewish immigration. In this document, we saw the British attempting to change horses in mid stream at a time when world Jewry needed a haven the most, the British clearly turning their back on an earlier course.

Now we're on our own, and to survive we must gather arms while we still can, because we know full well what is coming if we don't do so. Brutalised in Ukraine and other parts of Europe, we are people in no position to trust any platitudes from above anymore, so we must take destiny and the destiny of other Jews into our own hands. The 1939 White Paper only proved that the British have chosen to appease rioting Arabs out of fear of future uprising. In the case of the King David, our intention was not to murder people but to switch off the nerve centre of the British from which operations are launched to confiscate the weaponry we require to protect ourselves when the inevitable happens, the war between the agendas of local Arab Nationalists, Arab states and Jewish Nationalism. Our warnings were sent to several locations, but no evacuation of the hotel took place.

Hamas are not heroes and nor were the PLO or Arafat

Hamas, Hezbollah, all are seen as heroes. I recall seeing a Hezbollah exhibition in Lebanon once, a collection of personal items in glass pyramids draped in the Hezbollah flag, accompanied by a photo of each Shaheed (Martyr). Cash, sunglasses, prayer beads, family photos, all everyday items of a person. In Israel, the activities of militias like Irgun and Lehi are similarly viewed favourably today in the overall mythology as seers in a sense, even if at the time the formal Zionist organisations tried to distance themselves from them. Once the British upped and left, those militias were largely vindicated because there was an almost immediate attempt to wipe the Jews, and Arab states trying grab as much of the former British Mandate for themselves (which they did), rather than capture any for local Arab nationalists. In Nablus today, there are posters of local shaheed all over the walls of the old city, dramatic posters of young men with 'hardman' faces holding weaponry, images that that resemble hollywood hero movie posters in nature. As I say, it depends where people are standing at the time. Our opinion on their activies, as outsiders, is irrelevant really.

If you were suddenly forced to move your home without any thought or compensation would you just give up and go?

In the middle east and further afield, the Jihad (which it has become, rather than plain old Arab nationalism) fully intends to force generations of native born Israelis out of the only land they've ever known, the only homes they've ever known. For Israelis, they don't see themselves as some kind of ill fitting newbie military presence to be rooted out. For them, it is home. As you say, would you just give up and go? No. None of us would. Nor do countless Arabs view themselves as an inconvenience, obstacles in the way. For this reason, everyone takes decisions and carries out actions they believe will assist them. We can agree on one point, that whatever bed each side makes for themselves, they will have to lie in it.

[MW72]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The so-called Palestine has never been a nation/state. The reason it isn't accepted is because it's a terrorist group. There was the PLO under Arafat and there is Hamas...

Try that one out on the UK or the US. Settle a bunch of terrorists on the border who lob rockets in and commit themselves to the destruction of the UK or US.

Now watch and see what happens.

70% of UN member states recognise the "so called" state of Palestine. Even the Pope does.

I wonder how the native Americans felt about those white guys who first rocked up on the shores of the new world all those years ago. At least the Palestinians have been there for thousands of years. Seems only fair that they would like a home of their own, after all the whole area was known as Palestine before the UN created the so called state of Israel in 1947.

Sent from my KFTT using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You guys have it all backwards. There never was a country called Palestine nor was there ever a people called Palestinians until those people began to call themselves that after WWII. They have not been there even 75 years much less thousands.

There was a region called Palestine which encompassed all or part of several countries but never such a country or people.

It is Israel which is in the historical record for at least 3,000 years.

It is these so-called Palestinians who have terrorist leaders and are committed to the destruction of Israel.

If you read my post you will see that I never claimed that there was a country called Palestine. Yes there was a region called Palestine just as there was a region called Judea. There were many regions of various names. The same is true of anywhere in the world. Over time borders change just as political regimes, rulers and empires change.

You talk about the Palestinians calling themselves that after WW2 well the same can be said about the state of Israel. It only came into being after the end of WW2. I appreciate the reasons the state was formed but as usual with western powers (the British especially) or the UN we did things in a way that has left us with one group of people who quite rightly feel hard done by. The Israeli state was forced upon the people who lived in that region and it has left a legacy of trouble. Both sides behave in a way that does not lend itself to trust or peace.

Most of the countries in Africa and the Middle East never existed until colonial powers (mainly Britain & France) carved them up regardless of tribal or cultural geography and regardless of the consequences. India, Pakistan & Bangladesh being a prime example of a disastrous legacy of the British empire.

Forget about 3,000 years ago. There is a problem here and now and it will not be resolved unless the Palestinians and Israelis get together and work it out from a position of mutual respect. That means the Palestinians having their own state and the Palestinians recognizing Israel's right to exist.

[Wat dee]

Sweden did the right thing,rest of the Europa needs to follow and recognize Palestine.

No need to consult Israel, eh?

Not sure what this "right thing" is supposed to be for, because it's certainly not at all helpful to bringing about a peaceful two state solution.

The most popular party in West Bank and Gaza is radical Jihadist terrorist Hamas and the majority of "Palestinians" are in favor of violence against Israel.

It's hilarious to me that European "liberal progressives" think doing the "right thing" is to give further international credibility to the incredibly non-progressive Hamas movement. Even funnier when Jews, gays, and feminist women fall for this trendy "Free Palestine River to the sea" Hamas movement, in other words wipe out Israel. Understood from Islamists, of course, welcome to Middle East politics.

This is a recipe for more war, much more war. Thank you very much, Sweden, and it's ilk.

Also while I don't agree with building more "settlements" people are deluding themselves if that actually believe that stopping new settlements would mean most Palestinians would magically recognize the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state. The settlements issue is a crutch. Look at what happened when Israel left Gaza, did that bring peace? Duh.

Jews may run States but not Europa

[Jingthing]

Sweden did the right thing,rest of the Europa needs to follow and recognize Palestine.

No need to consult Israel, eh?

Not sure what this "right thing" is supposed to be for, because it's certainly not at all helpful to bringing about a peaceful two state solution.

The most popular party in West Bank and Gaza is radical Jihadist terrorist Hamas and the majority of "Palestinians" are in favor of violence against Israel.

It's hilarious to me that European "liberal progressives" think doing the "right thing" is to give further international credibility to the incredibly non-progressive Hamas movement. Even funnier when Jews, gays, and feminist women fall for this trendy "Free Palestine River to the sea" Hamas movement, in other words wipe out Israel. Understood from Islamists, of course, welcome to Middle East politics.

This is a recipe for more war, much more war. Thank you very much, Sweden, and it's ilk.

Also while I don't agree with building more "settlements" people are deluding themselves if that actually believe that stopping new settlements would mean most Palestinians would magically recognize the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state. The settlements issue is a crutch. Look at what happened when Israel left Gaza, did that bring peace? Duh.

Jews may run States but not Europa

We know all about the history of Europe and its treatment of Jews (thousands of years) and some people wonder why the Zionist movement gained resonance.

[Ulysses G.]

Jews may run States but not Europa:)

They don't run either one. They run Israel.

[Wat dee]

Sweden did the right thing,rest of the Europa needs to follow and recognize Palestine.

No need to consult Israel, eh?

Not sure what this "right thing" is supposed to be for, because it's certainly not at all helpful to bringing about a peaceful two state solution.

The most popular party in West Bank and Gaza is radical Jihadist terrorist Hamas and the majority of "Palestinians" are in favor of violence against Israel.

It's hilarious to me that European "liberal progressives" think doing the "right thing" is to give further international credibility to the incredibly non-progressive Hamas movement. Even funnier when Jews, gays, and feminist women fall for this trendy "Free Palestine River to the sea" Hamas movement, in other words wipe out Israel. Understood from Islamists, of course, welcome to Middle East politics.

This is a recipe for more war, much more war. Thank you very much, Sweden, and it's ilk.

Also while I don't agree with building more "settlements" people are deluding themselves if that actually believe that stopping new settlements would mean most Palestinians would magically recognize the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state. The settlements issue is a crutch. Look at what happened when Israel left Gaza, did that bring peace? Duh.

Jews may run States but not Europa

We know all about the history of Europe and its treatment of Jews (thousands of years) and some people wonder why the Zionist movement gained resonance.

Why someone is harassed thousands of years?

[Wat dee]

Jews may run States but not Europa:)

They don't run either one. They run Israel.

Can understand why US keep covering Israel if that is not the case.What you think about USS Liberty?

[Jingthing]

Why someone is harassed thousands of years?

Classic troll baiting question. Full marks.

[Ulysses G.]

Why someone is harassed thousands of years?

We get the code: The Jews brought it all on themselves, including the holocaust. This is a common theme with anti-Semites.

[Wat dee]

Why someone is harassed thousands of years?

Classic troll baiting question. Full marks.

Taking fifth amendment?

[Jingthing]

Why someone is harassed thousands of years?

Classic troll baiting question. Full marks.

Taking fifth amendment?

No, of course not. Perish the thought. The reason of course is we need the blood of murdered goyish toddlers to make our matzohs.

It's hard to know whether to gather the toddler blood before or after seducing and then defiling your Aryan virgins with our dark Oriental charms and our inbred Jew race skills with clever word trickery ...

Decisions. Decisions.

Next! ...

Edited October 31, 2014 by Jingthing

[Pakboong]

The so-called Palestine has never been a nation/state. The reason it isn't accepted is because it's a terrorist group. There was the PLO under Arafat and there is Hamas...

Try that one out on the UK or the US. Settle a bunch of terrorists on the border who lob rockets in and commit themselves to the destruction of the UK or US.

Now watch and see what happens.

Pretty much like Irgun, the Stern Gang and Haganah.

[Ulysses G.]

Pretty much like Irgun, the Stern Gang and Haganah.

Who were a response to decades of vicious, unprovoked attacks by Palestinian Arabs.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[japsportscarmad]

Pretty much like Irgun, the Stern Gang and Haganah.

Who were a response to decades of vicious, unprovoked attacks by Palestinian Arabs.

You miss the point don't you that before isreal was there, in it's preset state, Christians, Arabs not all muslims and Jews lived on the land. Wether it was a state or not in another matter but people lived reasonably peaceful there with some nationalism shown by all sides.

When the land was cleared to make way for the state of Isreal many lost their lands and their livelyhoods. However, most of those were Arabs, although some Christians who have also had to move. There were also not that many Jews as there was an influx of Jews after the war as they had no where to go as the countries they came from really hated them as had upset the Germans, who in some cases didn't like them much either, although Hitler had a jewish chauffeur and cook so maybe we don't know the full story only what people wanted us to beleive. Actually, I have just come back from Hungary and I heard so many bad things about Jews i was surprised I wasn't back in 1939, boy it was a bit scary.

The St Davids hotel was a british administrative centre but was still used a s a hotel and there where many civilians in the building when it blew ipso it was a terrorist act, I had and uncle in Palestine at the time in the British army so I would trust what he told me rather than the revised statements of Israeli apologists who won't accept that a terrorist cowardly bombing is the same no matter which side it was on.

Ok though lets try to agree on some reasonable points.

You can't condemn one terrorist without condemning another especially when its about a similar subject --- Land. would you agree?

Palestinians unless you have a word for them other than that who lived in the area before 1947 they were predominantly Muslim so to ensure that the Isreali 'democracy' could function as a Jewish state mass jewish immigration had to take place as the Jews would not own the balance of power would you disagree with that?

Many people lost land they had been on for several years if not hundreds and were just moved off with no compensation or help. - could you disagree with that.

Then there has been mass immigration of only Jews into Isreal since and the Arab birth rate has not kept up so the balance of power in Isreal is in the hands of the Jews would you disagree with that?

Isreal is a democracy and as such most can vote but not all, and not everyone is therefore represented. Do you agree with that.

Note everyone who criticises Israel is an anti Semite or Israel demoniser. Do you agree on that.

That building in the occupied territories and taking over East Jeruselem wether by financial means or force makes a peace deal harder to achieve?

The issue is that those who suggest everyone who wants peace in the mIddle East and that Isreal itself needs to compromise is called an anti semite or Israel hater which might well turn people into them.

[dexterm]

Do you know Palestine was a state before modern Israel was even conceived

You are dead wrong. There has NEVER been an independent Arab state called "Palestine" in recorded history.

Israel wasn’t a globally recognized state either until 1948, and even that was a murky affair accompanied by much bullying and bribery of other UN members.

Now Palestine is moving towards being recognized too,

Palestine has been around for over 3,000 years. Many different peoples have lived there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

“The region has been controlled by numerous peoples, including Ancient Egyptians, Canaanites, Israelites, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians, Ancient Greeks, Romans, Byzantines, the Sunni Arab Caliphates, the Shia Fatimid Caliphate, Crusaders, Ayyubids, Mameluks, Ottomans, the British and modern Israelis and Palestinians.”

Thus people who lived in Palestine were Palestinians. Greek Historian Herodotus in the 5thC BC thought so anyway. He called the area "Palaistine." (ibid)

Judaism is simply a religion. Just one of many that have worshiped there over the millennia.

There never was such thing as the Jewish race. Any DNA from people who practiced Judaism in Palestine 2,000 years ago has been diluted many times over through intermarriage and conversions. Jews are every genetic shade from jet black Ethiopians to blonde haired blue eyed Estonians.

If you claim there’s no such people as the Palestinians, then there are certainly no such people as Jews.

Jews are just a very loose genetic mix, some religious others secular, some who observe a few cultural dietary practices, others who don’t.

It’s not as though some dusty title deed has been found in a Jerusalem cellar bequeathing Palestine to Samuel Goldwyn of New York and all his relatives. Get real. One of my ancestors 5 generations ago was a Latvian Jewess who married a Scottish Presbyterian. I certainly don’t have the right to live there when 4 million Palestinians cannot return to their homes for which they still have the keys.

Judaism is just another religion practicable anywhere in the world. In the 21^st century you cannot lay claim to land displacing the existing population through hearing voices from imaginary supernatural friends and belief in a popular work of fiction.

Edited October 31, 2014 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

Pretty much like Irgun, the Stern Gang and Haganah.

Who were a response to decades of vicious, unprovoked attacks by Palestinian Arabs.

You miss the point

You are the one missing the point. The Arabs started the violence in the first place. If they had been willing to live peacefully with the Jews who were buying land legally, there would have never been a problem.

Did your "uncle" tell you that the British military HQ in King David Hotel was warned to get out and the soldier refused because "We don't take orders from Jews" or is that the "revised statements of Israeli apologists" too.

[japsportscarmad]

Pretty much like Irgun, the Stern Gang and Haganah.

Who were a response to decades of vicious, unprovoked attacks by Palestinian Arabs.

You miss the point

You are the one missing the point. The Arabs started the violence in the first place. If they had been willing to live peacefully with the Jews who were buying land legally, there would have never been a problem.

Did your "uncle" tell you that the British military HQ in King David Hotel was warned to get out and the soldier refused because "We don't take orders from Jews" or is that the "revised statements of Israeli apologists" too.

I am not missing the point at all the majority how did the Arabs start it they were there then moved. The Arabs on the land were forcefully moved (Ethnic cleansing?) just as the Nomads are at the moment by the current Israel government into what are no better than enternmeant camps (concentration camps = camps/areas designed to hold many prisoners). And there's another thing 'legally buying land' when did that happen, if your referring to Jerusalem you should know that it was split and yes Jewish money is now buying some out but it's just another way of ethnically cleansing the native population to accommodate more wealthy jews and leads to even more hatred.

You lie about the Hotel bombing there was no warning at all for the bomb, that claim did not surface until much after the event. That's like saying Hitler warned the jews to leave before he allegedly gassed them it's not true he didn't.

In any case it was by definition a terrorist attack as it was a bomb designed to over throw the legitimate controlling power. What then about the murder and torture by Lehi’s of the Swedish Count Bernadotte who worked for the UN as a mediator = person trying to resolve an issue in late 1948? Note the words UN = United Nations, and Mediator, he was not throwing rocks or petrol bombs he was a mediator but would not agree to certain demands so he was killed for that ( very reasonable). Unfortunately Israel still has a long history of extra judicial killings of persons not convicted of a crime, do you want me to list some?

Anyway unfortunately Israel has now made itself totally impotant to deal with Iran and no doubt will regret it's disregard for world public opinion. Furthermore, Iran may yet be its down fall as we the West need to keep Iran 'on side' to defeat the likes of IS. There are also others in the region such as the Gulf states and Saudi with massive military capability above that of Israel which can not as we see in Iraq be guaranteed to stay in relatively friendly hands, as the political situation can rapidly change with those holding the trigger as well.

[Jingthing]

Reports of the imminent demise of the Jewish State of Israel have been greatly exaggerated ...

[dexterm]

Pretty much like Irgun, the Stern Gang and Haganah.

Who were a response to decades of vicious, unprovoked attacks by Palestinian Arabs.

You miss the point

You are the one missing the point. The Arabs started the violence in the first place. If they had been willing to live peacefully with the Jews who were buying land legally, there would have never been a problem.

Did your "uncle" tell you that the British military HQ in King David Hotel was warned to get out and the soldier refused because "We don't take orders from Jews" or is that the "revised statements of Israeli apologists" too.

500,000 Palestinian Christians and Muslims did indeed live peacefully alongside a small Jewish population of 10,000 prior to 1896 when Theodor Herzl established the Zionist movement with the avowed intention of displacing the Palestinians and replacing them with Jewish immigrants. Which they are still doing today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Herzl

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

36 of the 37 signatories to Israel's Declaration of Independence were illegal Jewish immigrants born mainly in Eastern Europe. Speaks volumes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_Declaration_of_Independence

[Jingthing]

The Zionist movement sought finally a national homeland for the Jewish people after thousands of years of no hospitable for long home in the diaspora.

Honestly, what place made more sense ... Alaska? Uganda? Or the actual land of the origin of the tribes of the Jews that Jews for thousands of years talk about: Next Year in Jerusalem.

it's not in Kansas, dudes.

It's NOW 2014.

Israel exists and isn't going away.

Millions of citizens, 80 percent Jews, the vast majority BORN THERE.

Get a grip.

Israel demonizers clearly not only don't want her to exist they also think she should have never existed.

That might be a fun academic argument sort like why is California American and not Mexican, but sorry ... TOO LATE.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

In suppose Israel won't stop these settlement for the sake of global peace. Selfish Israel rears its ugly head once again.

Global peace????Puhhhleazzzz...

Indeed, all the Jews in the world could commit mass suicide and the Middle East would STILL be a major mess for thousands of years to come ...

Antisemites would need to find another scapegoat though. Putin has an idea about that ... the gays.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

500,000 Palestinian Christians and Muslims did indeed live peacefully alongside a small Jewish population of 10,000 prior to 1896 when Theodor Herzl established the Zionist movement with the avowed intention of displacing the Palestinians and replacing them with Jewish immigrants. Which they are still doing today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Herzl

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

Why do you constantly provide links that prove you have posted yet another fabrication? I don't see anything about any intention to "displace the Palestinians and replace them with Jewish immigrants." In fact, according to your links, he wanted to live in harmony with other races and religions and resisted any suggested to make them second class citizens - maybe you should try actually reading them.

Both you and apsportscarmad have a bad habit of mixing a few historical facts in with a load of nonsense that you have made up from thin air.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

I am not missing the point at all the majority how did the Arabs start it they were there then moved.

You are posting such bizarre baloney, I don't know where to start. The Arabs started attacking Jews at the beginning of last century and in a serious organized way around 1920. If the Arabs were "moved" it was either from land that they did not own or during the war in 1948 that THEY started.

[arjunadawn]

"The reality is that continued settlement activity in occupied Palestinian territory is doing significant damage to any possibility of a lasting peace between the two sides and is moving the situation ever closer to a one-state reality,"

I reject the assertion that these are illegal settlement activities; were these settlements in Gaza or Golan then maybe settleing in disputed lands of "defensive conquest" could be disputed. While the West Bank was also a defensive conquest in 1967 it has the additional advantage of legally belonging to Israel but illegally occupied by Jordanians for 19 years until 1967, when Isreal repelling further incursion and reclaimed their legitimately titled land.

The notion that a contested land area not have "transfers" of populations does not apply here as the land in question is indisputably legally ceded to Israel as part of the original mandate and the documents of the league of nations effecting this were incorporated into UN bindings without objection. Moreover, during the days of the deliberation for conceeding these lands to the Jews no Arab representative contested it. Indeed, the same series of Mandates that formed the Palestinian Mandate also formed Lebanon; I do not hear a peep from any protesting the use of traditionally soverign [syrian] land being carved out for Christians. In fact, this is exactly what happened- Mandates carved out for christians, arabs, and jews. It is only the jews who seem to be protested now.

Israel is building and populated land that was lawfully titled to Israel. That there are arabs there and had been for generations does not matter; they are Israeli arabs. The entire fiasco of Palestinians demanding a state is sheer grand theft. They are demanding that lands that never belonged to them, that were legally deliberated and transfered in title under the british mandate for jews, be carved up and provided to them. Notwithstanding that the mandates also carved up transjordan and provided for the arabs. Indeed, the arabs knowing this fled to their mandate and were later evicted by their own people.