Sweden recognises Palestinian state

[Lissos]

Sweden was the first domino....and it looks like Ireland, France and Spain are racing to see which will be next to do what's right:

Domino is an apt word to be using, as the root of Domino is believed to be from Latin, meaning Lord / Master.

Lords / Masters exert their will and apply pressure by force, just as a Domino piece is designed to knock others down in their path. Now, I have no personal interests in the situation, but I understand why Israel may object if the creation of such a state happens through the force of external momentum rather than from a true settlement between the two players. I believe the creation of such a state must arise in circumstances that please all (a very tall order, admittedly) if it is to be sustainable (and certainly if the motivation of the creation of such a state is for the conflict to be solved).

If the charge against Israel is that its creation took place in an atmosphere of bitterness, without mutual agreement and due to the force of external momentum (Sykes-Picot and the Balfour Agreement, etc), then forcing through the creation of a Palestinian State by external pressure rather than via a natural evolution, has all the potential to end up manifesting a similar situation on the ground for another round of hostility. If Israel ain't happy with the way it happens, then it probably won't end the conflict. However, for those who want to force through the creation of a Palestinian State more from a motivation of getting a kick out of having rounded up external allies from outside the region to give Israel a good kicking, then none of this will bother them. It all depends on the motivation behind the momentum. If malice drive it all, then I doubt it will lead to a harmonious outcome.

[Jay Sata]

As I have said before Israel has a lot of reasonable people who would like to see an end to this ongoing problem.

Likud and the right wingers led by Netanyahu are doing nothing for the Israeli population other than clinging to power.

The Irish Independent had a front page lead yesterday citing over 600 Israeli politicians and legislators asking for Eire follow Sweden.

A sizeable group of Israel's most influential politicians and former legislators are urging Ireland to recognise Palestine.

A group of 660 say they are "worried by the continued political stalemate, the occupation, and the settlement activities that lead to further confrontations with Palestinians, and quash any chances for compromise".

The group includes the former Israeli Attorney General Michael Ben-Yair, former Israeli Ambassador to South Africa Ilan Baruch, and Nobel Prize Laureate Daniel Kahneman.

Alon Liel, former Director General of Israel's Foreign Affairs ministry, said: "The Irish people worked with conflict; solved their conflict. We're looking for this kind of example, of places that suffered from conflict and solved it."

In the meantime, "our conflict looks unsolvable, and Ireland is an example we need".

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/israeli-public-figures-urge-ireland-to-recognise-palestine-30743782.html

That quote from Alon Liel underscores how an impasse can be resolved. The UK and Eire suffered decades of getting no where apart from tit for tat bombings and killings on both the Republican and Unionist sides.

Towards the end of his life Ian Paisley became great friends with his former arch enemy Martin McGuiness.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Jay Sata

[Jingthing]

Ireland wasn't surrounded by multiple nations representing a religion of over 1.5 BILLION people hostile to it's very existence. Ireland isn't TINY like Israel. Irish are not JEWS. Sure you can get some left wing Israelis on board for most anything. So what? They don't represent the majority of Israeli public opinion, do they?

[Jay Sata]

Ireland wasn't surrounded by multiple nations representing a religion of over 1.5 BILLION people hostile to it's very existence. Ireland isn't TINY like Israel. Irish are not JEWS. Sure you can get some left wing Israelis on board for most anything. So what? They don't represent the majority of Israeli public opinion, do they?

You show your ignorance now regarding Irish politics.

I suggest you do some reading up on the topic.

Likud do not represent the majority of Israeli people. That is why the country has coalition after coalition.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Jay Sata

[Jingthing]

Ireland wasn't surrounded by multiple nations representing a religion of over 1.5 BILLION people hostile to it's very existence. Ireland isn't TINY like Israel. Irish are not JEWS. Sure you can get some left wing Israelis on board for most anything. So what? They don't represent the majority of Israeli public opinion, do they?

You show your ignorance now regarding Irish politics.

I suggest you do some reading up on the topic.

I've read enough to know they are not equivalent situations. The situation that brought the modern Jewish state of Israel to reality is a totally UNIQUE history. It is not about Ireland. It is not about South Africa. It is not about Germany. Best dealt with for what it is ... without trying to oversimplify a very complex and unique situation with promoting absurd and false equivalencies.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Jingthing

[uptheos]

The Israeli Embassy in Dublin responded: "Imagine if any country in the world would have recognised a final status in favour of one of the sides in the conflict in Northern Ireland, before the peace process started."

Irish Independent

[Jay Sata]

More hot air from you but you cannot stop the wind of change that is blowing through Europe.

France votes in 2 weeks time.

PARIS, Nov. 14 (UPI) -- France will vote Nov. 28 on legislation that would symbolically recognize the state of

The decision comes after months of renewed tensions between Israel and Gaza. The United States has tried to bring the two sides together to broker a peace deal but the process has been halted with Israel refusing a two-state solution.

"It's the right time to recognize the Palestinian state," said French politician Pouria Amirshahi. "In this conflict ... it's unequal combat between a recognized state that has all its legal capacities, and a state that's not totally recognized and can't take any legal action."

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2014/11/14/France-to-vote-on-recognition-of-Palestine/9341415966504/#ixzz3J9TecNsF

[jdinasia]

Palestine was never a country and there will never be any "right of return" to Arabs who fled the area or to the Jews that were forced out of actual Arab countries and had to immigrate to Israel.

More made up facts. Palestine is as much of a state as Israel and is recognised by 135 nations representing 70% of the United Nations.

Israel has only existed since 1948.

Where do you get your no right of return from? The right wing Likud government no doubt.

Try reading this

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights

www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/

Article 13. (1) Everyone has the right to freedom of movement and residence ... has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.

By this I would assume next year when I renew my retirement extension, I can simply tell the nice Thai Immigration Officer that the UN says I have a right to residence in any country I want.

I don't need no more stinking extension to remain in Thailand, so says the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as espoused by the UN.

By your UN logic, they would have to permit me to live here visa free and without restriction.

Anybody want to bet it won't work?

You are not a citizen of Thailand and like 99% of us who spend time in the country never will be. You are a visitor and there on a visa hence the need to renew.

As for rights you have none. You cannot own land and can be expelled at the whim of an official.

The one thing you do have is more rights to be in Thailand than the Israeli forces and the foreign settlers in the West Bank.

Try the laws of universal land warfare since time immemorial ... attack my country and I will take your lands to protect my country from your future attack and invasion. Ignorance of world history - eons of world history - does not relieve you of ignorance of what is going on in Israel - the West Bank and Gaza... HINT ... don't attack Israel ... Israel will bite you...

The world has changed, more in the last 100 years than the era of tribal warfare.

Hint - the world is gradually working together more and more. With Sweden and other EU countries recognizing the State of Palestine, the UN recognizing the State of Palestine, and Israel soundly condemned for their actions in Gaza and the West Bank.

[Lissos]

That quote from Alon Liel underscores how an impasse can be resolved. The UK and Eire suffered decades of getting no where apart from tit for tat bombings and killings on both the Republican and Unionist sides. Towards the end of his life Ian Paisley became great friends with his former arch enemy Martin McGuiness.

Ireland could perhaps be used as an example of how seemingly untreatable problems can come to some kind of arrangement in the end, but the conflict in the middle east, as Jingthing alludes to, has various differences from that one which mean the Ireland model isn't fully comparable. I believe that the core reason things settled in regard to Ireland was that a majority on both sides were utterly exhausted by it all and I believe that it was an essential prerequisite. We need only to look at how two schoolboys erupting into an almighty scrap usually end up as the best of friends once it is off their chests, 5 minutes later. It is only once they have both exhausted each other's venom fully, that there is a sudden and dramatic shift to the complete opposite. I don't believe that the venom is entirely used up in this conflict in the middle east yet. I wish it were, but I don't think it is even at 1/4 way stage yet. In Ireland there is also the example of the emergence of what the group called - "The Real IRA", which views the settlement as a sell out. Militant groups continue there, but they are starved of that one essential need to gather momentum, which is public support. Looking at the current support levels for the ideology and activities of of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and others, can we say that the Arab public is about to ditch them for good?

[Jay Sata]

Ireland wasn't surrounded by multiple nations representing a religion of over 1.5 BILLION people hostile to it's very existence. Ireland isn't TINY like Israel. Irish are not JEWS. Sure you can get some left wing Israelis on board for most anything. So what? They don't represent the majority of Israeli public opinion, do they?

You show your ignorance now regarding Irish politics.

I suggest you do some reading up on the topic.

I've read enough to know they are not equivalent situations. The situation that brought the modern Jewish state of Israel to reality is a totally UNIQUE history. It is not about Ireland. It is not about South Africa. It is not about Germany. Best dealt with for what it is ... without trying to oversimplify a very complex and unique situation with promoting absurd and false equivalencies.

More smoke and mirrors and nothing to back up your statements.

It was the wealthy Jewish business lobby that influenced Balfour.

For those who are not aware of the history the following will help.

The Balfour Declaration was made in November 1917. The Balfour Declaration led the Jewish community in Britain and America into believing that Great Britain would support the creation of a Jewish state in the Middle East.

On November 2nd 1917, Arthur James Balfour, the British Foreign Secretary of the time, wrote to Lord Rothschild. The Rothschilds were considered by many Jews to be one the most influential of all Jewish families they were certainly one of the wealthiest. Their influence in America was considered to be very important to the British government.

Balfour declared his support for the establishment of a Jewish homeland in the area known as Palestine though there had to be safeguards for the "rights of non-Jewish communities in Palestine". This communication was accepted by the Jewish community as Great Britains support for a Jewish homeland. Other nations that fought for the Allies offered their support for the declaration.

The BBC website has some all the key correspondence and background.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/middle_east/israel_and_the_palestinians/key_documents/1682961.stm

Edited November 15, 2014 by Jay Sata

[Jay Sata]

That quote from Alon Liel underscores how an impasse can be resolved. The UK and Eire suffered decades of getting no where apart from tit for tat bombings and killings on both the Republican and Unionist sides. Towards the end of his life Ian Paisley became great friends with his former arch enemy Martin McGuiness.

Ireland could perhaps be used as an example of how seemingly untreatable problems can come to some kind of arrangement in the end, but the conflict in the middle east, as Jingthing alludes to, has various differences from that one which mean the Ireland model isn't fully comparable. I believe that the core reason things settled in regard to Ireland was that a majority on both sides were utterly exhausted by it all and I believe that it was an essential prerequisite. We need only to look at how two schoolboys erupting into an almighty scrap usually end up as the best of friends once it is off their chests, 5 minutes later. It is only once they have both exhausted each other's venom fully, that there is a sudden and dramatic shift to the complete opposite. I don't believe that the venom is entirely used up in this conflict in the middle east yet. I wish it were, but I don't think it is even at 1/4 way stage yet. In Ireland there is also the example of the emergence of what the group called - "The Real IRA", which views the settlement as a sell out. Militant groups continue there, but they are starved of that one essential need to gather momentum, which is public support. Looking at the current support levels for the ideology and activities of of Hamas, Islamic Jihad and others, can we say that the Arab public is about to ditch them for good?

9-11 pulled the plug on Noraid which was American charity money funding the IRA. With the USA launching a War on Terror the IRA were doomed.

The USA are the key players with Israel and they will drag the right wingers kicking and screaming to the negotiation table. Or better still the Israeli electorate will decide they have had enough of the killing on both sides.

[Lissos]

The USA are the key players with Israel and they will drag the right wingers kicking and screaming to the negotiation table.

Or better still the Israeli electorate will decide they have had enough of the killing on both sides.

In itself this points to another important layer of this conflict, applying to both sides, which is that the electorate on both sides believe the narrative from their chosen representatives that the offense=defense. Voters believe that they are voting for groups which will 'defend' them, and they accept that if that defense happens to take the form of offense in the decision making, then so be it, the - "The best defense is a good offense" adage.

I agree that the Israeli electorate are just as important to factor in with this as the Palestinian electorate and their choices. Both people's may need to reach that point of exhaustion and the clarity which follows. I suggest that in the United States and Europe, the electorate no longer believe the line that carrying out uber expensive military adventures overseas, "protects our streets". Carrying out smal scale intelligence based operations does, but the major offensives costing the economy billions, rarely bring that result and could be said to make us even more under threat.

One example is the recent Rememberance Sunday in Britain, where a General had the gall to go on national television on that same day to claim that the Afghanistan mission had met the core mission objective which was to make the streets of Britain safer. Simultaneously, the MI5 website ranked the threat of international terrorism in the United Kingdom to be 'severe', one notch down from 'critical', the highest. I believe that when outsiders look at Gaza, they don't believe that the actions of Hamas or Islamic Jihad make things safer / prosperous for Palestinians, one little bit.

Likewise, there are many outsiders who look at the right in Israel and wonder why on earth Israelis keep voting for them. I guess the answer to this is simple, that the population on both sides still believe that those they are elect are bringing good results. The veracity of that belief can only be judged by subsequent events, laying it all out in front of them and using lashings of self honesty to decide if the current course should continue.

[Jay Sata]

Ireland wasn't surrounded by multiple nations representing a religion of over 1.5 BILLION people hostile to it's very existence. Ireland isn't TINY like Israel. Irish are not JEWS. Sure you can get some left wing Israelis on board for most anything. So what? They don't represent the majority of Israeli public opinion, do they?

You show your ignorance now regarding Irish politics.

I suggest you do some reading up on the topic.

I've read enough to know they are not equivalent situations. The situation that brought the modern Jewish state of Israel to reality is a totally UNIQUE history. It is not about Ireland. It is not about South Africa. It is not about Germany. Best dealt with for what it is ... without trying to oversimplify a very complex and unique situation with promoting absurd and false equivalencies.

This letter from the British Government nearly 100 years ago sealed the fate of the Palestinians and gave the Zionists the opportunity they had been waiting for.

Foreign Office

November 2nd, 1917

Dear Lord Rothschild,

I have much pleasure in conveying to you. on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet:

His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours,

Arthur James Balfour

[Lissos]

His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.

I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation.

Yours,

Arthur James Balfour

I think the important points (highlighted by myself above in red) is to ask if the civil and religious rights of existing non Jewish communities in Palestine were being trampled over by 1921, when the first Arab riots against Jews erupted within the British Mandate, then in 1929 and in the mid 1930s. People can certainly point to the late 1940s to drag up the above letter and raise eyebrows, but was immigration of people into this region justification for murderous riots that erupted that early on? If so, have we seen similar in Europe against migrants since the mass movements of people into E.U member states? Did the Jews predjuice the religious rights of non Jewish communities in Palestine, by 1920? Did they prejudice the civil rights of them? Maybe some will say that the very presence of a competitor for creating another nation out of the former Ottoman Empire was in itself trampling on the rights of non jewish communities in Palestine, but then again wasn't Husayni originally looking for this area to become part of a Greater Syria? I know that he was instrumental in sparking off violence and restrictions of Jewish rights to pray at the Western Wall in the 20s.

[Anthony5]

You are confusing peace ful law abiding muslims, with fanatical Islamists, exactly the same way as most people confuse good law abiding jewish people with jewish zionists, two totally different kettles of fish.

And do not call me Anti Semitic its the last thing I am! !

I don't know what you are but a lot of your rhetoric is classic grade A antisemitism.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

In your book everyone who doesn't agree with Israel is anti semitic. No agenda by any chance ?

[Jingthing]

You are confusing peace ful law abiding muslims, with fanatical Islamists, exactly the same way as most people confuse good law abiding jewish people with jewish zionists, two totally different kettles of fish.

And do not call me Anti Semitic its the last thing I am! !

I don't know what you are but a lot of your rhetoric is classic grade A antisemitism.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

In your book everyone who doesn't agree with Israel is anti semitic. No agenda by any chance ?

Actually, as I've explained before that yes irrationally demonizing Israeli is indeed a form of antisemitism. Rational criticism of course is not.

[Lissos]

Minus the security of knowing your house might be bulldozed next week.

As in Thailand and China?

[Jay Sata]

You are confusing peace ful law abiding muslims, with fanatical Islamists, exactly the same way as most people confuse good law abiding jewish people with jewish zionists, two totally different kettles of fish.

And do not call me Anti Semitic its the last thing I am! !

I don't know what you are but a lot of your rhetoric is classic grade A antisemitism.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

In your book everyone who doesn't agree with Israel is anti semitic. No agenda by any chance ?

Actually, as I've explained before that yes irrationally demonizing Israeli is indeed a form of antisemitism. Rational criticism of course is not.

You never explain anything or substantiate your arguments with facts.

You are irrational in your appreciation of the issues we discuss.

I doubt you have ever been anywhere near the Middle East.

[MJP]

Oh gawd . . .

[Jay Sata]

It's not that bad MJP.

Take a look at the links I have added

Have you ever watched the Ken Loach movie

The Wind That Shakes The Barley.

It will move you.

It explains a lot of the motivation for oppressed people to retaliate.

There are parallels in the Israel Palestinian conflict.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Jay Sata

[MJP]

It's not that bad MJP.

Take a look at the links I have added

Have you ever watched the Ken Loach movie

The Wind That Shakes The Barley.

It explains a lot of the motivation for oppressed people to retaliate.

There are parallels in the Israel Palestinian conflict.

As long as you boys stop haranguing each other, it's all good . . . I think.

I shall have a look tomorrow. Sunday matinee.

[Jay Sata]

That movie is worth watching as it explains a lot about the civil war in Ireland.

The Israel and Palestine conflict has similar roots.

When I travel through Vietnam I ask myself how could any educated person or government want to as Lyndon B Johnson's adviser Curtis Lemay once said to bomb these people back to the Stone Age.

Let me ask the elephant in the room question

How could a people who went through the Holocaust inflict a similar punishment with the massive bombing and collective punishment in Gaza.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Jay Sata

[Jingthing]

Germany, the most powerful country in Europe, is taking the correct stand on this issue. A clear and firm REPUDIATION of the Swedish Meatball stick it to Israel just to stick it to Israel because we like it even though it does the opposite of bringing real hope for peace forward Brigade.

A Palestinian state can only be established through negotiations with Israel, German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said on Saturday in Ramallah as he met with Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.

“There is no alternative to negotiations for achieving the two-state solution and establish the Palestinian state,” he said.

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/German-FM-meets-Abbas-calls-for-calm-over-Jerusalem-tensions-381878

You see, folks, the Palestinian Hamas-Fatah unilateral tactic ... all it does it make the Israeli right wing EVEN STRONGER. Real smart!

Edited November 15, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

As long as you boys stop haranguing each other, it's all good . . . I think.

I shall have a look tomorrow. Sunday matinee.

If you're referring to me as part of the boys, no worries. I have started a new policy of total ignore to any posters with a pattern of irrational Israel demonization rhetoric such as antisemitic suggestions of equivalency between Israel and Nazis. That's a lot of posters. So relax and enjoy!

Edited November 15, 2014 by Jingthing

[Lissos]

Let me ask the elephant in the room question

How could a people who went through the Holocaust inflict a similar punishment with the massive bombing and collective punishment in Gaza.

I see this one a lot, but appears to be an attempt to tell the Jews what lesson they are supposed to have learnt from the Holocaust with finger wagging as if the Holocaust was a spanking for some previous transgression for which the holocaust was a punishment. My view is that it is the Jews themselves (nobody else) who get to decide what the Jews were to make of that notorious assault on Jewry, and it is the Jews themselves (nobody else) who got (and still get) to decide how they'd respond. It has been said by some Jews, in entertaining that question, that if there was a lesson to be learnt from it all it was to believe it when somebody declares an intention to root you out entirely, and never to rest on your laurels taking it easy when that kind of hostility is in the air, in writing, in speeches, in other forms of announcement . Prior to the holocaust, the early thinkers for Jewish statehood were responding to the accumulation of assaults on Jewry in multiple nations which had been going on for centuries but was now becoming wholesale. It is possible to reverse the question and ask how some Arabs who knew exactly what was going on in Europe, chose to throw all their resources into blocking the creation of a Jewish State (of any scale) in the middle east, Usually the response to that is that it is wasn't up to the Arabs to have Europe's troubles off loaded onto them, but then again we could question if that rejection should have been of such totality.

If the Arabs were shocked at the lengths the Jews went to defend themselves at the time from continued attacks (and the lengths they still go to), and were shocked at the fervour with which the Jews were determined to create an oasis from it all, maybe they should have looked deeper at what Jews had just come from, and to perhaps consider that the Jewish conclusion on what the holocaust was to have 'meant', may not be what others think it should be. Of course Muslims (in particular) like meek Jews. It is what they were used to for many centuries, with the dhimma system. It is arguably what drove Mufti Husseini in his opposition to the creation of a Jewish state. Jews choosing their 'own' future? No, that he couldn't abide.

[Jay Sata]

As long as you boys stop haranguing each other, it's all good . . . I think.

I shall have a look tomorrow. Sunday matinee.

If you're referring to me as part of the boys, no worries. I have started a new policy of total ignore to any posters with a pattern of irrational Israel demonization rhetoric such as antisemitic suggestions of equivalency between Israel and Nazis. That's a lot of posters. So relax and enjoy!

So don't post your biased rhetoric here which sometime verges on trolling.

If you cannot argue or discus this topic in an adult and considered way please do not waste our time.

[Jingthing]

I see this one a lot, but appears to be an attempt to tell the Jews what lesson they are supposed to have learnt from the Holocaust with finger wagging as if the Holocaust was a spanking for some previous transgression for which the holocaust was a punishment. My view is that it is the Jews themselves (nobody else) who get to decide what the Jews were to make of that notorious assault on Jewry, and it is the Jews themselves (nobody else) who got (and still get) to decide how they'd respond. It has been said by some Jews, in entertaining that question, that if there was a lesson to be learnt from it all it was to believe it when somebody declares an intention to root you out entirely, and never to rest on your laurels taking it easy when that kind of hostility is in the air, in writing, in speeches, in other forms of announcement . Prior to the holocaust, the early thinkers for Jewish statehood were responding to the accumulation of assaults on Jewry in multiple nations which had been going on for centuries but was now becoming wholesale. It is possible to reverse the question and ask how some Arabs who knew exactly what was going on in Europe, chose to throw all their resources into blocking the creation of a Jewish State (of any scale) in the middle east, Usually the response to that is that it is wasn't up to the Arabs to have Europe's troubles off loaded onto them, but then again we could question if that rejection should have been of such totality.

If the Arabs were shocked at the lengths the Jews went to defend themselves at the time from continued attacks (and the lengths they still go to), and were shocked at the fervour with which the Jews were determined to create an oasis from it all, maybe they should have looked deeper at what Jews had just come from, and to perhaps consider that the Jewish conclusion on what the holocaust was to have 'meant', may not be what others think it should be. Of course Muslims (in particular) like meek Jews. It is what they were used to for many centuries, with the dhimma system. It is arguably what drove Mufti Husseini in his opposition to the creation of a Jewish state. Jews choosing their 'own' future? No, that he couldn't abide.

Zionist movement (a national liberation movement for indigenous people of Israel, the Jews) started WELL BEFORE Hitler. Jews in the diaspora were persecuted for thousands of years. The movement made sense as a survival tactic for the Jewish people and culture.

Be reminded that the most powerful "Palestinian" Arab during the time of WW2 (Grand Mufti of Jerusalem) spent his time in Berlin as an ally of Hitler, was helpful in genocide of European Jews, and got a promise from Hitler to exterminate the Jews back in Palestine and Hitler agreed, but then he started losing the war, so it didn't happen. So the Palestinians claim of "innocence" towards Jews during that time doesn't hold up.

It's too bad the Palestinians don't teach their children the truth about the history of the Jews, Jews connection to Israel, talking thousands of years, not only more recent history. That would be helpful towards peace someday.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Jingthing

[Jay Sata]

Jingthing...

Let me ask you a question.

Why troll?

[Jingthing]

lol and there it is,

This level of exchange isn't productive. Keeping with my "peace on the forum" policy, it is time to add you to my honor roll (IGNORE list).

[Jay Sata]

In which case we are all wasting our time as you are just a troll.