Sweden recognises Palestinian state

[simple1]

Wondering if the Swedish government was under any internal duress when they made the decision to recognize Palestine.

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Swedish Police Release Extensive Report Detailing Control Of 55 ‘No-Go Zones’ By Muslim Criminal Gangs

7:21 PM 11/02/2014

MATT DANIELSSON

An extensive report mapping out 55 no-go zones was released Oct. 24, showing where law enforcement has all but handed control to criminal gangs.

Officers frequently face outright attacks when trying to enter the areas, which is a step up from the previous problem with attacks on mailmen, fire trucks, ambulances and similar services. Fire trucks and ambulances had to wait for police escort to enter the areas, but now the police themselves need protection.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/02/swedish-police-release-extensive-report-detailing-control-of-55-no-go-zones-by-muslim-criminal-gangs/

There is currently no legal entity, 'Palestinian State'. The Swedish recognition is political theatre that will have zero influence on the negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian representatives; the gesture has been blown out of proportion.

Has there been any provable link between Muslim gang criminality and Swedish support for a Palestinian State, personally I think it's BS. Why would Muslim criminal gangs desist or reduce their activities if Palestinians eventually acheived independence, just nonsense

[Seastallion]

A quick search reveals the following link, which takes you to a PDF file that is the actual police report.

Report here: http://polisen.se/Global/www%20och%20Intrapolis/Rapporter-utredningar/01%20Polisen%20nationellt/Ovriga%20rapporter-utredningar/Kriminella%20natverk%20med%20stor%20paverkan%20i%20lokalsamhallet%20Sekretesspr%2014.pdf

You don't have to believe me or The Daily Caller. Read for yourself what the report says.

Bring a translator and give us a book report when you finish.

Seriously? A report that neither you nor I understand is proof of the reliability of your red-neck rag article?

Come now, you can do better than that.

Or can you? Your research powers have failed miserably in the past, as I recall.

[Ulysses G.]

It seems someone has never heard of Google Translate. Stop nitpicking.

[ABCer]

Here is some facts.

Gaza was given back years ago and nothing was built or developed economy wise.

Westbank was given to Abbas and the very same thing has happened.

Glad Sweden has recognized Balestine(since there is no letter P in Arabic), now they just need to start acting like a state.

Selling olives does not build economy.

PS. Who did Sweden regonize? Hamas or Fatah? because last time i checked it was 2 different governments running what suppose to be the same "state"

So even assuming Israel gives them everything they want, they will be fighting each other, such as fact of the region and its "natives",

Rare case is happening. I agree with you. But:

Why nothing was built or developed?

Why Israel should give them anything?

They did build wonderful tunnels!

They did build makeshift rockets!

Sweden Recognition does not make them a State. It is irrelevant! They are not.

Some countries may still not recognize Israel! It is irrelevant! It is.

And finally, Recognition of a State is not relevant to which Mob is at the helm at a given moment.

But the borders of a recognized State is relevant! Swedes did Palestinians a disservice.

Unless they also Recognize their ongoing right to make perpetual war on Israel.

No Nobel Prize to Swedish Government for advancing Peace.

Sweden is a wonderful country. Swedes are reasonable people. Their Government is very stupid.

[Ulysses G.]

Why nothing was built or developed?

The Palestinians took over Gaza and destroyed hundreds of very advanced greenhouses that Israelis left behind. Most of the organic agricultural products that the Israelis had grown were exported to Europe for sale, but no more.

[chuckd]

A quick search reveals the following link, which takes you to a PDF file that is the actual police report.

Report here: http://polisen.se/Global/www%20och%20Intrapolis/Rapporter-utredningar/01%20Polisen%20nationellt/Ovriga%20rapporter-utredningar/Kriminella%20natverk%20med%20stor%20paverkan%20i%20lokalsamhallet%20Sekretesspr%2014.pdf

You don't have to believe me or The Daily Caller. Read for yourself what the report says.

Bring a translator and give us a book report when you finish.

Seriously? A report that neither you nor I understand is proof of the reliability of your red-neck rag article?

Come now, you can do better than that.

Or can you? Your research powers have failed miserably in the past, as I recall.

"Red-neck rag" article?

Please tell me when I became your research assistant. Somebody forgot to tell me.

I posted a legitimate link properly, under Fair Use Laws and forum rules, which does not seem to satisfy you.

You attack the source, which is generally the first sign you have lost the argument, rather than the message.

I then provided a link to the actual Swedish police report, which you now find does not meet your needs because the Swedish government did not provide you with a translation.

I have already provided a translation of the police report. It is the article from The Daily Caller.

I truly believe it is now time for you to do your own work in what will be a very feeble attempt by you to disavow the article.

Or can you?

Edited November 4, 2014 by chuckd

[NeverSure]

Here is some facts.

Gaza was given back years ago and nothing was built or developed economy wise.

Westbank was given to Abbas and the very same thing has happened.

Glad Sweden has recognized Balestine(since there is no letter P in Arabic), now they just need to start acting like a state.

Selling olives does not build economy.

PS. Who did Sweden regonize? Hamas or Fatah? because last time i checked it was 2 different governments running what suppose to be the same "state"

So even assuming Israel gives them everything they want, they will be fighting each other, such as fact of the region and its "natives",

Just FYI, it's actually pronounced "Felestin" in Arabic!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

Very good point, but you neglected that reading on in your link you'll find that historically "Palestine" was a region encompassing several nations. It never was a People, and it never was a nation.

"Felestin" is Philistine who were warlike people not associated with anything there is today. They were defeated by the Romans and were basically stateless nomadic wanderers who no one wanted. Now they have settled where they are without changing into something which could be considered a rightful state.

They are still stateless, warlike people who will be run off again because of their behavior.

[Seastallion]

A quick search reveals the following link, which takes you to a PDF file that is the actual police report.

Report here: http://polisen.se/Global/www%20och%20Intrapolis/Rapporter-utredningar/01%20Polisen%20nationellt/Ovriga%20rapporter-utredningar/Kriminella%20natverk%20med%20stor%20paverkan%20i%20lokalsamhallet%20Sekretesspr%2014.pdf

You don't have to believe me or The Daily Caller. Read for yourself what the report says.

Bring a translator and give us a book report when you finish.

Seriously? A report that neither you nor I understand is proof of the reliability of your red-neck rag article?

Come now, you can do better than that.

Or can you? Your research powers have failed miserably in the past, as I recall.

"Red-neck rag" article?

Please tell me when I became your research assistant. Somebody forgot to tell me.

I posted a legitimate link properly, under Fair Use Laws and forum rules, which does not seem to satisfy you.

You attack the source, which is generally the first sign you have lost the argument, rather than the message.

I then provided a link to the actual Swedish police report, which you now find does not meet your needs because the Swedish government did not provide you with a translation.

I have already provided a translation of the police report. It is the article from The Daily Caller.

I truly believe it is now time for you to do your own work in what will be a very feeble attempt by you to disavow the article.

Or can you?

I sincerely believe you used to provide sensible, if flawed, arguments.

I wont speculate what the passage of time may be responsible for.

Where did you get the idea that I want you for any sort of assistant? Surely you know how little I value.....no, I'll leave that unsaid.

I do attack the source. But that in no way whatsoever is that an indication of loss of argument. Proof please.

Reading past the appalling grammar (parenthesis would have been better), how can one attack or defend a message that has unclear veracity?

Your attempt to verify was laughable. Where's the verification in something we can't read? Your circular argument that the translation was in the article is....I can't think of a diplomatic way to say it.....can I find a gentler word than "pathetic"?

I don't yet feel the need to disavow the article. I pour scorn on it's outlet.

Your prediction of feeble, whilst being premature is also the initiation of barbs that I will be happy to continue within forum rules.

[Ulysses G.]

I truly believe it is now time for you to do your own work in what will be a very feeble attempt by you to disavow the article.

You certainly called that one correctly.

[chuckd]

I truly believe it is now time for you to do your own work in what will be a very feeble attempt by you to disavow the article.

You certainly called that one correctly.

He is now into building post count. Just spouting rhetoric.

[ABCer]

Of course. Simply criticizing Israeli government policies is not anti-semitic. Probably most Israelis do that. Duh. Denying Israel's right to exist, on the other hand, is another matter.

what kind of matter is denying Palestine's right to exist?

I don't know. It would depend if a person expressing that also denied the right of the NUMEROUS Arabic and Islamic states (some pure theocracies) right to exist. I have never met even one person who denies the right of all the ARABIC and/of ISLAMIC states right to exist. There might be exceptions like in regard to ISIS. But "anti-Zionists" often hiding behind that label who are actually just Jew haters, are active all over the world. To deny the right of Israel to exist is indeed denying the right of ALL the Jewish majority states in the world to exist, as there is only the one, TINY ISRAEL.

For the record, personally I support a two state solution but think there needs to be direct negotiations between the two parties and also that for the Palestinians must accept the right of Israel to exist as a Jewish state, or NO DEAL.

I have to disagree with both of you.

There are two Nations in the State of Israel. Jews and Arabs.

Those Arabs who are happily living with Jews are part of Israel.

Those Arabs who chose not to are not a part of Israel.

This is not a reason for a tiny State of Israel to get split to satisfy the desire of those Arabs to erase Israel from the map.

Israel as a State has enough on its plate as it is being surrounded by much greater hostile Arab States.

Naam, - nobody denies Arabs of Palestine the right to exist. This is their choice, perhaps not a wise one.

Jingthing, - it would be suicidal for Israel as a State to agree to the demands of their enemies under ANY conditions. NO DEAL!

As to Sweden Government Recognition - let Swedes decide whatever they want. Their decision is irrelevant for State of Israel.

I think Sweden has its own problems in this department: - 55 no go zones in a country with great history and traditions! What a shame!

Swedes have a long history of Democracy. Perhaps they will choose another Government which will address their internal problems and revise their International position.

But this is for Swedes to decide, not for me, not for Naam, not for Jingthing and not on TV Forum.

Edited November 4, 2014 by ABCer

[petercool]

off topic post, replies quoting that and a flame post all removed

[evadgib]

[Seastallion]

Bye bye.

[theoldgit]

Post in breach of Forum Rules removed.

10) Do not discuss moderation publicly in the open forum; this includes individual actions, and specific or general policies and issues. You may send a PM to a moderator to discuss individual actions or email support (at) thaivisa.com to discuss moderation policy.

[Jingthing]

Sweden might not be a trend setter, after all:

Unilateral recognition of Palestine as a state is non-effective because there will be no consensus between Palestine and Israel, Czech Foreign Minister Lubomir Zaoralek told a breakfast meeting of The Israel Council on Foreign Relations at the King David Hotel, Jerusalem on Wednesday.

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Unilateral-recognition-of-Palestinian-state-is-non-effective-says-Czech-Foreign-Minister-380830

[Seastallion]

Sweden might not be a trend setter, after all:

Unilateral recognition of Palestine as a state is non-effective because there will be no consensus between Palestine and Israel, Czech Foreign Minister Lubomir Zaoralek told a breakfast meeting of The Israel Council on Foreign Relations at the King David Hotel, Jerusalem on Wednesday.

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Unilateral-recognition-of-Palestinian-state-is-non-effective-says-Czech-Foreign-Minister-380830

Sweden might be a trend-setter. The Czech guy said "not effective", ie, it will not force Israel to do anything.

He also said, " The only possible and viable solution to the conflict, he said, is a two-state solution, with the two states living alongside each other in peace and cooperation. ", which is in fact saying Palestine must be recognised as a state.

[Ulysses G.]

Sweden might not be a trend setter, after all:

Unilateral recognition of Palestine as a state is non-effective because there will be no consensus between Palestine and Israel, Czech Foreign Minister Lubomir Zaoralek told a breakfast meeting of The Israel Council on Foreign Relations at the King David Hotel, Jerusalem on Wednesday.

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Unilateral-recognition-of-Palestinian-state-is-non-effective-says-Czech-Foreign-Minister-380830

He also said, " The only possible and viable solution to the conflict, he said, is a two-state solution, with the two states living alongside each other in peace and cooperation.[/size] ", which is in fact saying Palestine must be recognised as a state.

Sure. Saying that Palestine must be recognized as a state when they have recognized Israel as a Jewish state, signed a peace treaty and negotiated the borders of a future state with Israel as per their commitment under the Oslo Accords.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Jay Sata]

Which means 1967 borders and all the settlers and their so called settlements removed?

[Ulysses G.]

If that is what the negotiations result in.

Edited November 5, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[japsportscarmad]

Which means 1967 borders and all the settlers and their so called settlements removed?

You know that won't happen at all, negotiating from an Israeli perspective means accepting whatever we offer you even if it's shit, or your not cooperating or been fair, then crying off and building more illegal settlements and big walls cutting across people's land.

They will never agree the 1967 borders as they can't or they would loose too much land after they've already ethnically cleansed it. And they did win it didn't they in a war.

But you don't win against Israel by running civilians over at bus stops (guy shot Palestinian) or grabbing an innocent Palestinian kid in response to a previous kidnap touring and murdering him (Othodox jew settlers as suspects released on bail still walking around).

It's a democracy so everyone's equal but some it seems are more equal than others.

[Ulysses G.]

More foolishness. In 2000, Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered to create a Palestinian state in all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. In 2008, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert offered to withdraw from almost the entire West Bank and partition Jerusalem on a demographic basis. They were both good deals and the Palestinians refused.

[Seastallion]

By recognising Palestine as a state, it gives them the opportunity to sign up to UN, ICC, and Geneva Conventions.

Israel either doesn't sign up to, or ignores those international agreements.

Is this what Israel is afraid of? That the state of Palestine will become a law-abiding global citizen, and thus will obligate the world to actually do something?

[japsportscarmad]

More foolishness. In 2000, Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered to create a Palestinian state in all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. In 2008, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert offered to withdraw from almost the entire West Bank and partition Jerusalem on a demographic basis. They were both good deals and the Palestinians refused.

Indeed we have an agreement you are foolish in your comments we all agree. The idea of the partition of Jerusalem on ethnic basis left the Palestinians with nothing much left as their plan was no Jews would move so one Jewish family in a street then the whole street was declared jewish so guess what - more Palestinians moved on. It's not the big words and sound bites you listen to you need to study in more detail what the actual deal is.

You need to listen to both sides of the argument not just one, and then post nonsense you read in the Jerusalem post which bears little resemblance to fact.

Sea stallion is correct Israel don't want a deal as they can't continue to ethnically cleanse areas then claim they've come up with a good deal involving the current demographic, when they've purposely taken areas to argue the point, or they wouldn't still continue to build on disputed land. They're now trying to move nomads from some areas as they are inconveniently in the way, guess what they want them to move into effectively ghettos created for them to live in, with no jobs or prospects.

Edited November 6, 2014 by japsportscarmad

[Ulysses G.]

"Ethnically cleanse". Using such cockamamy rhetoric and silly arguments does not exactly boost ones credibility.

[up-country_sinclair]

In 2000, Prime Minister Ehud Barak offered to create a Palestinian state in all of Gaza and 97 percent of the West Bank. In 2008, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert offered to withdraw from almost the entire West Bank and partition Jerusalem on a demographic basis. They were both good deals and the Palestinians refused.

2000?

2008?

In 2014 the Palestine unity government offered to recognize the state of Israel, and Netanyahu refused to sit down and negotiate a peace settlement. Because he doesn't want peace.

The Israeli people will have to suffer the consequences.

[japsportscarmad]

"Ethnically cleanse". Using such cockamamy rhetoric and silly arguments does not exactly boost ones credibility.

I try to help other posters struggling to grasp basic terminology when at all possible, so I would suggest you buy or borrow a dictionary to help you grasp at least the basics of the argument. Significantly, you will then understand the terms used to describe an action taking place.

However, to help you I will show you a definition from the Oxford one to describe the term I used.

Ethnic cleansing:

noun:

"the mass expulsion or killing of members of one ethnic or religious group in an area by those of another"

This adequately and concisely explains what has been going on since 1947 in Israel.

Perhaps you need to understand basic internationally recognised terms before you suggest something is "cockamamy" which means ridiculous or implausible, as the term ethnic cleansing aptly fits the scenario taking place.

[chuckd]

I have a question for all you that seem to hate Israel and everything it stands for.

First a couple of facts.

1. Israel has a land mass of 22,145 square kilometers and an estimated population of 8 million.

2. The Middle East has a land mass of 8,641,070 Square kilometers and an estimated population of 345.4 million.

Why are all of you so afraid of Israel?

What is it about them that strikes such fear in your hearts?

Have the Israeli's invaded your homelands and you fear a repeat?

Help me understand where all this angst is coming from.

Thank you.

[MJP]

Please let's stay on topic.

Thank you.

[japsportscarmad]

I have a question for all you that seem to hate Israel and everything it stands for.

First a couple of facts.

1. Israel has a land mass of 22,145 square kilometers and an estimated population of 8 million.

2. The Middle East has a land mass of 8,641,070 Square kilometers and an estimated population of 345.4 million.

Why are all of you so afraid of Israel?

What is it about them that strikes such fear in your hearts?

Have the Israeli's invaded your homelands and you fear a repeat?

Help me understand where all this angst is coming from.

Thank you.

I'm not sure old chap we are afraid of Israel at all, I am certainly not so not sure why you suggest it?

I guess if we see oppression and ethnic cleansing anywhere in the world we would want to condemn it. Unfortunately, it seems the pro Israeli lobby for want of a better term seem to not understand this and want to troll anyone who disagrees with them.

I don't hate Israel at all, it's not a case of hate it's a case of trying to help Israel out of the hole it's digging itself into by challenging some of the misconceptions about it. Furthermore, the forums help to air views which need to be aired across a large demographic of people.

If you note all of my posts I try to be fair such as on Thai workers rights in Israel where I as very positive.

Edited November 6, 2014 by japsportscarmad