DNA test will clear my son: Koh Tao headman

[wilcopops]

One has to wonder why this person fused a DNA test originally......... assuming he is not guilty, what other reasons would there be?... involvement in other DNA traceable activities?

[JohnThailandJohn]

the hoe was next to the condom it seems to have been moved from one place to another , why would it be moved at a crime scene like this ?.

Does anybody where the hoe was reported to have been found.

hoe1.jpg

Resident expert JTJ can answer this question.

resident expert would not be able to answer this question as would anybody else here but would be ignorant to assume there is some sinister thing going on especially given the videos clearly show police moving the hoe as they test it for blood or dna and one can surely assume they took video and pictures of it both where they found it and likely may have wanted to also take pictures of other angles of it before bagging it and having marks or material on it be smudged.

These would be logical speculations on what we don't know but for the illogical folks .... It means police are covering up for a rich powerful small island headsman that appears to have more power over Thailand than Thaksin had and who for some reason police had no idea he had such power and hauled him into custody and made him provide a DNA sample while publicly accusing his family of being involved in the rape and murders.

[Colabamumbai]

Should have been done on day one, to avoid speculation.

[CockneyGit]

Wow! So many keyboard warriors out there.

If any of you know people in Koh Tao, talk to them. They all know the truth.

[JohnThailandJohn]

One has to wonder why this person fused a DNA test originally......... assuming he is not guilty, what other reasons would there be?... involvement in other DNA traceable activities?

Never refused a DNA test. Police have stated they never required one of him because they confirmed he was not on the island at the time of the murders. His father and uncle on the other hand were made to give samples as well as all the employees of the bar as they were on the island.

[JOC]

DNA test will clear my son: headman

Oh yes I am sure it will. But it won't mean he is 'not guilty' will it?

By the way... He was cleared a month ago when the cash went under the table.

This is a serious allegation you are making. Please give your source of information? And I would be very interested to know who you are, where you are and your political affiliation, because you and others like you who make such unfounded allegations and statements in the public domain are considered as enemies of the State, which could hold serious consequences for those that are detected and if anyone does know who you are, I certainly hope they shop you to the authorities, as I would do in an instant without hesitation.

This thread has to be the ultimate in Thai bashing, the worst I have ever witnessed on Thai visa, it now seems that anything goes, a free for all. Statements like these must certainly push the tolerance levels by Thais towards ex-pats to the limits of endurance. Outragious.

This has got nothing to do with Thaibashing, but is merely an attack on the incompetent and corrupt Thai police and their enablers!!

If you have a look at simular threads on Thai social media, you will realise that even most Thais had enough!! And the language used would have most of the posters banned here!!

So it is not Thai vs ex-pat

But people vs corruption!!

[longstebe]

@JTJ

Will you be happy with the outcome if the Burmese duo are found guilty in the courts?

[Bleacher Bum East]

@JTJ

Who do you think committed the murders?

He thinks the Burmese are the rapists and murderers. He's stated that several times. He will believe whatever the police brass send down the tubes.

Show one link were I said that? And never have I indicated at all that police, here or anywhere else are not corrupt or that in less developed countries like Thailand they are often usually much more corrupt.

I have repeatedly said I believe they should stand trial based on the evidence and if they don't plead guilty then their defense team should challenge any evidence as well as present their own to defend them and that the courts should decide this case.

I also stated that I don't believe there is any evidence currently out there that would indicate the Headsman's family had anything to do with this let alone should stand trial.

JTJ . . . assuming for the sake of discussion that what you just said is correct, I have a couple of related questions for you:

Based on what information is publicly available, do you think it is reasonable to close the investigation having identified only two suspects?

In the interests of public safety (not to mention justice), do you think the investigation should remain open and active in an attempt to ensure that there were not more participants in the crime?

I'm not talking about targeting any particular person...just about continuing to search for more participants, whoever they might be.

In my opinion, the evidence available would indicate a high likelihood that more than two persons were involved in the crime, unless one or both of the victims was subdued by a drug, the presence of a weapon (not necessarily fired), etc. that would cause them not to resist or call out.

There is at least enough publicly available circumstantial evidence that there may have been/quite probably was at least three people involved to continue looking, even if that evidence isn't definitive. Of course I don't have all the information the police have, but I can't imagine what they could have that would definitively tell them only two persons were involved in the crime.

So if you were in charge, would you close the investigation when you only have two suspects in custody?

Edited October 31, 2014 by Bleacher Bum East

[StealthEnergiser]

the hoe was next to the condom it seems to have been moved from one place to another , why would it be moved at a crime scene like this ?.

Does anybody where the hoe was reported to have been found.

hoe1.jpg

Resident expert JTJ can answer this question.

resident expert would not be able to answer this question as would anybody else here but would be ignorant to assume there is some sinister thing going on especially given the videos clearly show police moving the hoe as they test it for blood or dna and one can surely assume they took video and pictures of it both where they found it and likely may have wanted to also take pictures of other angles of it before bagging it and having marks or material on it be smudged.

These would be logical speculations on what we don't know but for the illogical folks .... It means police are covering up for a rich powerful small island headsman that appears to have more power over Thailand than Thaksin had and who for some reason police had no idea he had such power and hauled him into custody and made him provide a DNA sample while publicly accusing his family of being involved in the rape and murders.

The hoe has been moved there is not even a small fence in the first video .

[Don Aleman]

If those 2 are cleared Thailand will, internationally EXPLODE !

[longstebe]

If those 2 are cleared Thailand will, internationally EXPLODE !

Its pretty much nailed on they won't be.

[jdinasia]

DNA test will clear my son: headman

Oh yes I am sure it will. But it won't mean he is 'not guilty' will it?

By the way... He was cleared a month ago when the cash went under the table.

I am sure you have evidence of cash "under the table" and it is not just defamation.

Not evidence, but let me inform you, that the headcopper here 28/10 bought shares for 360 million baht, way above his assets delared!!

Supplying drugs to the 3 islands is a billion baht franchise, so the murders and the following social media frenzy, has been very "inconvenient" for everyone involved.

By so emotionally and blindly supporting the coppers here, you are enabling them to continue their lucrative and dirty business!!

All IMO, ofcourse!!

Actually you are making statements of fact, not opinions. Other than your opinion that I am supporting something that I am not.

Where is the evidence?

[jdinasia]

If those 2 are cleared Thailand will, internationally EXPLODE !

Which 2?

[templedog]

That pic is taken thru a glass window. Why?

And what's with the Chief and Headman's hardened gazes? It's that supposed to be don't <deleted?k with us?

ABSOLUTELY hilarious! Why is the father there? The boy is of age. The father has been at almost every police gathering....why? To conduct the cover-up? Such amateurs. And the threats? Don't speculate...where are we now....in China? Burma? Egypt? Thailand is regressing quickly.

[Living in a cartoon]

I'm new here so forgive me for asking, but how exactly does DNA testing clear somebody for the crime of murder exactly? I would have thought rock solid alibis, independent CCTV and the like would be a must to actually clear somebody. Little help

It doesn't, especially when the chain of custody is suspect. Same as the CCTV evidence. Not that that is important in this case for obvious reasons.

Most comments here seem to be under the assumption that no one was ever justly convicted prior to DNA and CCTV technology.

Too much crime drama television I suppose, I blame the parents and the schools.

[Thaddeus]

That pic is taken thru a glass window. Why?

And what's with the Chief and Headman's hardened gazes? It's that supposed to be don't <deleted?k with us?

Dangerous animals are usually kept behind glass to protect the public.

And actors, ask Indiana Jones.

[koele2]

It comes down to trust. Do you think the police are doing everything in their power to find the real killers? Or do you think some internet kid overseas with some made up facebook page is trying to find the real killers? Who stands to make the most money from either outcome. In certain countries, you always have to consider this.

[joecoolfrog]

All this talk of 'Conspiracy Nutters ' and 'Thai Bashers ' seems a tad desperate given the vast numbers commenting on Social Media , very many of them Thais themselves.

For sure I have seen some wild speculation but it seems to me that that the vast majority of posters are simply seeking justice , they are to be applauded not denigrated .

I myself have no hatred of the RTP but cannot help but be critical of their handling of this case , the early stages in particular were amateurish beyond belief.

Coupled with the rampant corruption endemic in Thai society , it is impossible not to have grave reservations about this investigation , you would have to be a nutter not to question some of the official statements that have been made.

[bongoz]

this question needs answers who is wearing number 9

Can you identify the names of the two people next to him in the still? What are their names? Did police take DNA from them? Where were they when the murders took place? What criminal records do they have? Was their phone records checked. What time did they leave the island after the murders ......

Oh wait, your not part of the investigation and have no reason to be privy to such information. With this in mind lets pretend the one on the far right was involved and make up theories because of things we don't know ... of course ignoring the fact the semen was already matched to two people in custody.

JTJ can you please explain to me how the matching of DNA from the two Burmese proves anything at all? DNA doesn't prove guilt, so what does the matching of the DNA actually mean?

[boomerangutang]

There's no question that a Thai commited the crime, but what hasn't been discussed is motive. What's the reason? Did the two britons piss off the murder, or make him lose face?

Only the murderers/rapists know for sure, but since you asked, here's a plausible scenario:

Party beach, thousands of partying farang, drunk, every night. Several handsome young Thais, some of whom run a bar or are family and friends with bar owners. Cute farang chicks get drunk, they might get slipped a date-rape drug, they get silly and loose, they're easy prey for guys who want to have some sexual fun on the beach, particularly late at night.

The supposed scenario, more specifically: very cute female stays late at bar. Thai dude asks (about David), "is that your boyfriend?" she says 'no.' (which is strictly true). Thai guy (or guys) may or may not have slipped her a date-rape drug, but it's likely she's tipsy from drinking (as are nearly every one of the farang and Thais out partying that night). Thai guy(s) get her to walk out to the beach. David follows. Thai guy(s) start by seducing gal, then find that doesn't work well enough, then resorts to force. David (who may have been sidelined with talking to someone else) notices a struggle. He goes to assist Hannah, is struck in the right side of the neck and head (probably by a left-hander, another of the hundreds of things Thai cops either didn't gauge or disregarded as unimportant). The wounds are indicative of a stubby blade (held in fist) and are nothing like a blunt garden hoe. Note: cops still don't have an idea of the weapon used on David. They said David's blood was not on the hoe, yet they used the hoe in the reenactment, completely disregarding the types of wounds).

I could go on with the supposed crime scene, but I'll stop here for brevity.

Can 'Thaiman' now get a better idea of motive? Drunk horny men, late at night, who are used to seducing many women, are thwarted from sex by a very cute blonde gal, ....that's motive, my friend. Add to that, possible disparaging remarks aimed at Thais, and that becomes explosive. If you just casually give the finger to a Thai man, he goes apeshit ballistic. A farang might just give the finger back and say 'fk you' in a monotone.

[webfact]

LATEST

DNA testing of Varot Toovichien, the son of influential Koh Tao village headman and owner of AC Bar on the resort island, by the Institute of Forensic Medicine of the Police General Hospital showed no match with the DNA samples found on the slain British backpacker Ms Hannah Witheridge, and samples collected at other scenes.

But the police said they have to wait for the testing results of three other hospitals, Chulalongkorn, Siriraj, and Ramathibodi.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/70152/


-- Thai PBS 2014-10-31

[ttthailand]

We know only a few things regarding the rapes and murders so we try to put the pieces together with our own version. Also so much misleading information given by police and reported in the news.

What don't we know :

1. Who was really tested for DNA ? Was the headman and Mon really tested? Was the football guys tested?

2. What fingerprints were discovered on the hoe and other items?

3. What have the phone records shown?

4. What have the bank accounts shown ?

5. What is the true information regarding phones ?

6. Was cuts on the bodies made by the ring from the one footballer or from the hoe ?

7. Etc etc .....

So many things we don't know that the police should already know.

It is not unusual for information to be kept secret so later it can be used to trap people. I hope the UK police are asking all of the above questions and more. I wait to see the UK police report on this matter before drawing my conclusions.

[CapFarmer]

Back in the day one way to test if somebody being accused of a witch was to tie waits to her and put her in water. If she didn't sink and die then they would know she was a witch. The conspiracy folks have got to this same point of losing touch with reality and are so caught up in this crowd mentality of accusation that they don't even realize how ignorant and out of touch with reality they have become. It is like lemmings following each other off a cliff, they just can't help themselves and are too far gone to pull themselves back.

Most people just want the boy to be properly cleared. DNA testing handled properly, accounting for the supposed CCTV footage in BKK, clearing phone records from the island during the time frame of the murders, review records of flights leaving the islands for any relavent names, etc... Just basic police work carried out in a transparent fashion. The way the case has been handled has provided fuel to potential conspiracy theorists and has caused the entire rational population to doubt any product that the investiation produces.

Anyone with any expierence dealing with Thai police and/or individuals that are policitally connected via "funding projects" knows that this investigation looks like so many other Thai cover up stories...

[StealthEnergiser]

this question needs answers who is wearing number 9

surely someone know's who no 9 is

[Adeeos]

They claim he wasn't on the island,, Yet there are reports of him getting into an argument with David that night,,,

They claimed they had CCTV footage of him being in BKK the day after the crimes, Yet that footage was shown to have been taken in KT, (the same chair in the BKK footage, was actually a chair at someplace in KT),, Sooo,, IF innocent, WHY submit CCTV footage claiming it was from someplace it WASN'T?,,,

HOW was he, "cleared" SO quickly, without DNA samples, without CONFIRMING his whereabouts at the time of the crimes?...

It just REEKS of corruption, influence, arrogance, etc,,, of COURSE his DNA won't match,, $$ has already been paid for it to NOT match... The only reason they're taking DNA now, is because of public pressure, so since $$ was paid in the beginning to, "clear" the Son,, MORE $$ will have to be paid now to insure the DNA doesn't match,,,

[Si Thea01]

Here is a little exercise for all the keyboard vigilante/crimefighters.

Put yourself in the fathers place and find society making threats and claims against your family and livelihood without having a shred of evidence.

Ofcourse its far easier for more blah, blah blah from this crowd.

The Burmese family didn't quite have 1 Million Baht to offer to Police to get their sons off.

They have just as much right to be pissed off, as their families' lives have also been tainted, no matter the outcome.

So he gave DNA. Nothing can come of it, and that has been paid extra for I guarantee that!

The RTP will not permit a match, even if they find one, as it leaves them in deeper shit than they ever could possibly be - hence, major cover-up.

They said before even taking the DNA, the results do not matter, as the evidence is already in the hands of the courts.

So, even if a match is found, it will be hushed, and paid more for to be hushed. There is a no win situation for the 2 poor lads, even if not guilty - they will be made to be guilty, at all costs.

What do you know that the rest of us do not. if you know squat, say squat. Were you there, did you see anything change hands. I don't think so, just another armchair detective.

[Jimbolai]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Why wait 6 weeks to do the test if you're innocent? Why do the test at all if you are guilty? This doesn't make sense.

Rhetorical questions, I hope. alt=rolleyes.gif>

Yes, Rhetorical questions with inherent conclusive answers.

[steelepulse]

LATEST

DNA testing of Varot Toovichien, the son of influential Koh Tao village headman and owner of AC Bar on the resort island, by the Institute of Forensic Medicine of the Police General Hospital showed no match with the DNA samples found on the slain British backpacker Ms Hannah Witheridge, and samples collected at other scenes.

But the police said they have to wait for the testing results of three other hospitals, Chulalongkorn, Siriraj, and Ramathibodi.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/70152/

-- Thai PBS 2014-10-31

I don't think anyone could see this coming!

[newcomer71]

LATEST

DNA testing of Varot Toovichien, the son of influential Koh Tao village headman and owner of AC Bar on the resort island, by the Institute of Forensic Medicine of the Police General Hospital showed no match with the DNA samples found on the slain British backpacker Ms Hannah Witheridge, and samples collected at other scenes.

But the police said they have to wait for the testing results of three other hospitals, Chulalongkorn, Siriraj, and Ramathibodi.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/70152/

-- Thai PBS 2014-10-31

Woah, in less than 24 hours we have the first results. From Police General Hospital though.

I am glad to see here in Thailand we have such advanced tools for DNA Analysis.

Wonder why they had to send some batches out to Singapore in the beginning of investigation... Or they weren't?

Oh well...

[CapFarmer]

The ONLY way I would believe the DNA test results, would be if the British investigators took the DNA samples themselves, then personally took it back to London for analysis.

The RTP just do not seem to understand that they have ZERO credibility, even amongst the majority of Thais.

They're very credible if conspiracy theorists want to use something they share or state something that they can use to support their conspiracy theories but not at all credible when they make statements or have evidence that disproves the latest theory.

Or they could just conduct a real investigation that was not only "complete and perfect" but also through and transparent. It would also help if the police refrained from making statements that were obviuosly not true.