Bangkok’s Bible Thumpers

[thaibebop]

God portect me and Thaivisa from your followers.

And your atrocious spelling

I know better, I really do.

[suegha]

"So the whole bible , Genesis to Revelations is literal truth right ?" - "Yes"

"Genesis , God made Adam and Eve nobody else right?" - Yes

"They had children , not just Cain and Abel - lots of them right ?" - Yes

"Their children had children , lots of them right ?" - Yes

"Incest was OK in those days right ?" - "Oh , I never thought about that"

How to be a "bible thumper"

1. Open book Genesis chapter 1 Page 1

2. Switch brain off

3. Memorise book

4. Repeat words you have learned to anyone you can corner

The first group of people I referred to are good people (although as the frogs say the word is weak)

The second group are mindless boring <deleted>

That is the subtle difference

May your God go with you , because I don't want him hanging around pestering me.

I find you post sweeping and offensive - how can you say this of all bible reading Christians just because you came across one who 'hadn't thought about it'!

I open my bible, and engage my brain, I do not memorise the book, I seek for understanding and I do not repeat the words to all I can corner. I am very choosey about whom I share the message with lest 'I cast my pearl before swine'!

Oh, and jst because you fancy yourself as a smartarse, yes, incest was okay then, incest was not prohibited until the law was given. And if this isn't an indication of you 'switching off your brain' I don't know what is!

Edited August 1, 2006 by suegha

[Kerryd]

I am very choosey about whom I share the message with lest 'I cast my pearl before swine'!

I think I heard my name called in vain again ?

Stop eyeing my pearls suegha !

Oh, and jst because you fancy yourself as a smartarse, yes, incest was okay then, incest was not prohibited until the law was given.

That could be an interesting discussion (incest in early bible literature), but off-topic and would no doubt lead to a major flame-fest between the believers and the ones that know the truth.

It would be another thread where, eventually, we would agree to disagree and nothing would change.

[gabe]

Everyone has to believe in something, and I believe I'll have another beer.

I have never been a very religious person.

All the people i have met who are deeply religious seem to be wacky and fanatical.

[tourleadersi]

I think what we need to remember is that there are a large number of Christians, Jews, Muslims etc out there who are very secure in their faiths and don't feel the need to push it on other people. I bet everyday we walked past numerous 'born again christians' who don't stop us and 'spread the word'. Religion is as fundamental to us all as much as belonging to a tribe, living in communities or socialising. Even people without religion have chosen the path of 'no faith' which puts you amongst friends.

To attack all Christians because of a few extraverted characters in Pattaya and Nana is the same as saying all bargirls are bad, all bar owners are pimps (see other thread before we go off on one here), and all johns are sad overweight pensioners. This is simply not the case and is offensive to the majority in each group.

Whilst their preaching may be of annoyance to you in Nana or elsewhere, it is simply a matter of moving to another bar where they are out of earshot, or to actually listen to them so as to take in a differing point of view.

I sat in Lucifers in Pattaya a couple of weeks ago and a Christian Group stood opposite and began to sing songs. My wife asked me why they had chosen that particular spot. "Because we are in a club named after the devil" Fair point I guess, I actually found it quite interesting. Perhaps they provide some balance, and perhaps by simply seeing them there someone might do some good instead of harm for 1 night? (That last bit is aimed at the small number of characters in Thailand who think it is ok to abuse the girl that they are with because they have paid a fee)

Edited August 1, 2006 by tourleadersi

[John K]

One point, one of my very good friends and colleague is a Chaplin and from time to time we communicate via email or phone. He had a bit of a rough time last year as his now former house was in New Orleans under 11 feet of water and he only had what he could carry out a few hours before the storm. He respects and knows about all religions as he worked in a hospital. I find it easy to engage him in a conversation without the need to quote some passage in the Bible. He also lived for a few years here in Bangkok around the mid 70's. He can also engage you in a debate without the need to quote. Because of his approach and the ability to think and work outside the book, box or what have you I have a lot of respect for him.

I think here as with each person in anything there are differing skill and knowledge levels. That means in your job or profession.

The people with “Blind faith” are the ones who many have a problem with. They wont think outside of the box because there are some things that cant be answered when confronted with logic and that simply goes against their belief. They just go back to quoting passages. To know and understand about anything requires an open mind and be willing to debate and also be willing to accept if you are proven wrong. It also requires the ability to say I don’t know.

Also the books are open to interpretation and from time to time they are interpreted wrong. If enough people don’t think about it on their own and follow another persons interpretation it becomes a group mentality. Look at what the Muslim extremists believe as a perfect example.

I certainly don’t want this thread to become sort of religious war ground as it was not the intent. The intent was simply to see if the Bible thumpers were hurting or helping their cause, and also now to let them see through the eyes of others.

[suegha]

I am very choosey about whom I share the message with lest 'I cast my pearl before swine'!

I think I heard my name called in vain again ?

Stop eyeing my pearls suegha !

Oh, and jst because you fancy yourself as a smartarse, yes, incest was okay then, incest was not prohibited until the law was given.

That could be an interesting discussion (incest in early bible literature), but off-topic and would no doubt lead to a major flame-fest between the believers and the ones that know the truth.

It would be another thread where, eventually, we would agree to disagree and nothing would change.

That's true, however, do we discuss things to change anything? I think agreeing to differ is sometimes a very respectful thing to do, ie 'I don't see it like that but you are entitled to your opinion'. That's cool!

ps what's this with the pearls?

[tourleadersi]

ps what's this with the pearls?

They make great necklaces....

[GuestHouse]

farangsay

There you go again , guesthouse......

Diatribe removed for the sake of brevity

...... May your God go with you , because I don't want him hanging around pestering me.

Now go back to my posts and find where I say I'm a Christian.

[Kerryd]

ps what's this with the pearls?

They make great necklaces....

Wrong thread lad !

(though the remark will probably have gone over the head of most people here !)

As for Suegha, you mentioned "..lest 'I cast my pearl before swine'".

I assumed you were referring to me, and were casting covetous eyes at the pearls others have cast before me !

[tourleadersi]

ps what's this with the pearls?

They make great necklaces....

Wrong thread lad !

(though the remark will probably have gone over the head of most people here !)

If they say that great minds think alike, then I feel like I am looking in the mirror!

I will search out the jewellery thread as soon as poss!

[Griffin]

Oh! Dear god no! Not more nonsense about faith. I pray that people open their eyes and see that it's just us spinning round and round in space and stop praying to you.

When kids say that they see Santa I think it's cute. When I see adults claiming the same for god I see mad people.

Even if their was a god, do you not think that it would be a horrid, spiteful, megalomaniacal entity?

If there was such a thing that creates you just to pray to it, why would you?

Today there are 1000s of mothers praying for their kids to make it. Tomorrow there will be 1000s of dead people. Do you not think that such an entity could have given itself better ears!!

[suegha]

ps what's this with the pearls?

They make great necklaces....

Wrong thread lad !

(though the remark will probably have gone over the head of most people here !)

As for Suegha, you mentioned "..lest 'I cast my pearl before swine'".

I assumed you were referring to me, and were casting covetous eyes at the pearls others have cast before me !

Er, no KerryD, the pearls reference had nothing to do with you - sorry! It's actually a bible quote

Mat 7.6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

You'll have to read the original post to see the context.

Isn't it great how posts can become confused!

[sleepyjohn]

I have never been a very religious person.

All the people i have met who are deeply religious seem to be wacky and fanatical.

Gabe I have met a small handful of really exceptional "religious" people.

A couple of them, who happen to be of the Buddhist persuasion, are truly something that approaches or is "saintly".

I have to say that what shines out is that there is a total absence of anything like fanaticism. None of them would be likely to speak without being asked something. They are totally down to earth and unaffected.

Once you hear someone proselytizing about "THIS IS THE WAY IT IS" pick up your skirts and RUN!

Sleepyjohn

Edited August 1, 2006 by sleepyjohn

[kerryk]

For all the good they do, and there are many who do good the end result is money in the coffers of their respective churches.

Do I trust them? Nope.

Would I give money to them? Nope.

The only reason I mention this is to give some reality to those who are trying to show me a better way.

One of the reasons I like Thailand is the amount of Animism that is in Buddhism here. Plus the fact that the local monk will give you numbers to play on the lottery.

It is obviously a scam intended to appeal to uneducated farmers who don’t know what causes lightening.

But it is an honest scam. The monks don’t know what causes lightening either.

[John K]

Well the invasion continues. I decided to get a bit to eat last night on soi 23 and then I happened to poke my head around the corner and there they were in soi cowboy. So I decided to engage them in a conversation. My advise to anyone else is don’t bother. Very simply they appear to be incapable of engaging in any conversation that involved debate or any sense of logic. They even had a set of prescripted challenges to people that would approach them. Simply I asked why they were at soi cowboy or more along the lines ‘do you expect to sell Chinese food in a Italian restaurant?’ Certainly they have not taken any lessons in marketing, but at last it is their wheels to spin. I was very turned off by their approach. Had I been a person who was sitting on a fence undecided on what way to go, my choice would have been not to go with them. Having a very narrow view as they apparently do, my gut tells me I don’t want to be anything like them. There are some other religious groups in Thailand that also have a very narrow view, we tend to read about them daily in the southern most provinces.

So as I left I walked through soi cowboy to get to the subway station. One of the girls outside of a bar stopped me and asked me what I said to them. After I asked her what she thought of them and she looked me straight in the eye and said “Dingdong Farung.”

[sigmondfreed]

In my opinion, all religion is based on superstitious, ritualistic, cognitively-distorted, self-fulfilling prophoserial, self-righteous cr*p designed to calm the narcissistic fears of death of the so-called 'chosen-ones'.

I wish mankind would rid itself of these war-spawning mass delusions.

[Sheryl]

I read this thread just because I was curious as I often see mention of "Bible thumpers" on this forum but in over 2 decades in Thailand never seen one...so I weondered what all the fuss was about. Now I gather there actually are religious groups going to Soi Nana et al at night (I never do hence my lack of exposure to this).

May I ask, do they actually accost people and buttonhole them against their wioshes? Or do they simply stand there, singing/preaching or whatever? If the former I would think there are grounds to complain but if the latter ... why not simply ignore them?

Reading the various posts it is obvious to me that some people have a real issue with religion, that it pushes some kind of button for them. In which case I think they might want to try to figure out and resolve those issues..because personal issues are what they are.

If someone is really clear in their mind that they are doing nothing wrong by frequenting these places, and secure and comfortable in their own beliefs/nonbeliefs, I don't think the presence of "Bible thumpers" would bother them. It is most likely to bother people who have some conflicts within themselves, either about religion or about frequenting these kinds of places, or both.

That said, I certainly don't agree with trying to actively convert people and the like, at best it is a waste of time, and also a compulsion to get others to believe as you do suggests to me an underlying uncertainty in oneself.

Truly religious people in the real sense -- people with a faith or belief based on personal knowledge and experience, not blind acceptance of hat they read or are taught -- don' have any need to persuade others. They also know it is useless; having arrived at their own faith through personal experience they realize that this is what it takeds and that no two poeple will have the same path to it.

In other words I find the "bashing" on both sides of this debate unnecessary and suggestive of underlying doubts on the parts of the "bashers" be they anti-vice or anti-religion.

[PeaceBlondie]

This general topic was not only hashed over 77 times last year in this thread, but recently in another thread as well. Sheryl has just summed it up well, in the post above. If some guy wants to get falling-down drunk on a bar stool in those places, or laid, that's his choice. And if Brother Righteous and Sister Sanctified want to shout in the street outside those places, that's their choice. And we can thank Thailand that we have those choices.

[IMA_FARANG]

I'm not particularly fond of missionaries of any stripe. I figure if they want to invade the nightlife zones and proselytize, you guys in those zones should take your, um, ladies to the churches and hang out as you would normally do. Fair's fair!

Sounds like a plan to me

Many years ago we had the Mormons in BKK. I used to see them walking around in their suits and ties in the BKK heat. At least they did one good thing for the neighborhood I was living in then. They built a soccer field (football pitch for you brits). My Thai G/F kids played a lot on that field.

But for a true story (quite a few years ago) I had a friend who was originally from Hawaii, part Japanese, part native. He liked his beer too. In later years he had quite a pot belly. He was visted once at his house near Pattaya by a couple of farang female bible banger types who were going about the neighborhood. He usually just wore a pair of shorts while working around his house. So these two females showed up, saw him with his pot belly hanging over his shorts and about a 2 baht chain round his neck with 3 or 4 buddhas hanging off it. They asked him if they could give him their message about Jesus. My friend belched, then said."Well o.k., but first I've got to take a leak." Then he proceeded to unzip his shorts and pull out his Willey.

Don't believe that those two female Farang bible pumpers have stopped running yet.

[John K]

I tried to talk to them because I was curious as to what makes them tic. It seems my findings matched what others have said and you may get a better conversation talking to an automated phone answering system. For some reason it made my think of Disney World in Orlando. They have machines there that look like people and only speak what they are programmed to say. I suspect it is because they don’t stand much of a chance when it comes to a logical debate. I have read and heard a few stories about that. As soon as they are cornered with something that can’t be disputed, they open the Bible and read some passage.

Sheryl as for ignoring them you can unless they are very near, otherwise they tend to shout and be louder than your conversation and to me that amounts to rudeness. It is the same as sitting next to a smoker who decides to light up even at others objections. Once they start it is like watching a program run, you can’t even get their attention to get out of the way of a car.

I wonder if they dare come back next Friday, I doubt they would last very long before powder and water found them.

Edited April 7, 2007 by John K

[Espina]

...I think this is the group that the OP is referring to: http://www.ywamthai.org/bangkok/.

...there is big buisness ($$$$) in starting a mission/ministry that appeals to pity with the "claim" of saving young girls from a life of indentured servitude as sex slaves. On a side note I filed a complaint with http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/after Uniformed US Navy personal participated in Mercy Ministries Public Events in Pattaya and Phuket two years ago.

[jumnien]

Live and let live.

I'd have to say that my 9 years in Thailand have not been dominated by overbearing encounters with Christian missionaries. There must be more interesting people to dwell on near Soi Cowboy than the folks pedaling Jesus. Just a thought...

[chevykanteve]

In my opinion, all religion is based on superstitious, ritualistic, cognitively-distorted, self-fulfilling prophoserial, self-righteous cr*p designed to calm the narcissistic fears of death of the so-called 'chosen-ones'.

I wish mankind would rid itself of these war-spawning mass delusions.

It's difficult for me to disagree with that. Many Christians think that the Buddhists or Muslims are wrong; many Muslims think that the Christians or Buddhists are wrong. Many people of Jewish faith may question aspects of Islam, etc. Well, THEY CAN'T ALL BE RIGHT.

The only religion I find interesting is in fact Buddhism. Buddhism is also the only religion that doesn't have a God. It's not a religion in the classic (Middle East engendered) sense with a vengeful God ready to condemn disbelievers to hel_l. Buddhism is more of a system.

[canuckamuck]

...I think this is the group that the OP is referring to: <a href="http://www.ywamthai.org/bangkok/" target="_blank">http://www.ywamthai.org/bangkok/</a>.

...there is big buisness ($$$$) in starting a mission/ministry that appeals to pity with the "claim" of saving young girls from a life of indentured servitude as sex slaves. On a side note I filed a complaint with http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/after Uniformed US Navy personal participated in Mercy Ministries Public Events in Pattaya and Phuket two years ago.

You really should have complained about what happened after the tsunami with the navy working hand in hand with Christian groups to rebuild homes and hand out supplies. Those Wicked Christians, probably next year they’ll want to start an orphanage with the help of the marines. Sick I tell you. When will these evil fiends be defeated?

[jumnien]

Sometimes Christians are annoying; anti-Christians are always annoying!

[Ulysses G.]

In my opinion, all religion is based on superstitious, ritualistic, cognitively-distorted, self-fulfilling prophoserial, self-righteous cr*p designed to calm the narcissistic fears of death of the so-called 'chosen-ones'.

I wish mankind would rid itself of these war-spawning mass delusions.

It's difficult for me to disagree with that. Many Christians think that the Buddhists or Muslims are wrong; many Muslims think that the Christians or Buddhists are wrong. Many people of Jewish faith may question aspects of Islam, etc. Well, THEY CAN'T ALL BE RIGHT.

The only religion I find interesting is in fact Buddhism. Buddhism is also the only religion that doesn't have a God. It's not a religion in the classic (Middle East engendered) sense with a vengeful God ready to condemn disbelievers to hel_l. Buddhism is more of a system.

I feel compelled to agree with this and I'm not Buddhist either!

[chevykanteve]

In my opinion, all religion is based on superstitious, ritualistic, cognitively-distorted, self-fulfilling prophoserial, self-righteous cr*p designed to calm the narcissistic fears of death of the so-called 'chosen-ones'.

I wish mankind would rid itself of these war-spawning mass delusions.

It's difficult for me to disagree with that. Many Christians think that the Buddhists or Muslims are wrong; many Muslims think that the Christians or Buddhists are wrong. Many people of Jewish faith may question aspects of Islam, etc. Well, THEY CAN'T ALL BE RIGHT.

The only religion I find interesting is in fact Buddhism. Buddhism is also the only religion that doesn't have a God. It's not a religion in the classic (Middle East engendered) sense with a vengeful God ready to condemn disbelievers to hel_l. Buddhism is more of a system.

I feel compelled to agree with this and I'm not Buddhist either!

Just for the record, neither am I (Buddhist, that is). Nonetheless, I find Buddhism interesting in that it's a self-contained system of belief minus any supreme godfather attributes.

[Espina]

You really should have complained about what happened after the tsunami with the navy working hand in hand with Christian groups to rebuild homes and hand out supplies. Those Wicked Christians, probably next year they’ll want to start an orphanage with the help of the marines. Sick I tell you. When will these evil fiends be defeated?

I did complain. US taxpayer donated supplies. US Taxpayer paid for uniforms. US taxpayer paid for logistics. The Ministries were simply opportunistic.

BTW many NGO's and Thai service(public and private) organizations handed out supplies, re-built homes and started orphanges after the tsunami.

If the "anti-christain" comment is directed at me, I dare you to find any comment by me anywhere on the internet where I denied any individual thier right to believe in the supernatural. Christian or otherwise.

[terry57]

This general topic was not only hashed over 77 times last year in this thread, but recently in another thread as well. Sheryl has just summed it up well, in the post above. If some guy wants to get falling-down drunk on a bar stool in those places, or laid, that's his choice. And if Brother Righteous and Sister Sanctified want to shout in the street outside those places, that's their choice. And we can thank Thailand that we have those choices.

out of all the responses to this topic i find this one is the best as it is true that in thailand one is free to do as one chooses until he causes trouble.

its a very strong point that if farang can run amoke in the bars, some being good punters and some being shocking punters why cant the god botherers stand in the street and preach there stuff. ?

im the most unreligous punter this side of the black stump but i believe that freedom of speech is fundamental and all us punters can do what we want as long as we dont hurt anybody.

after all people,

thats why we love the los as its bleeding disneyland reincarnaited and those bible fellas give me a great laugh when there punching out there stuff on the koh san.

especially brother tony,

as he sweats about ten litres of fluid in one sitting. . lucky he dont get on the turps as it would cost him 330 quid to top him self back up.

so in conclusion,

all us turps drinking , rock and roll good time fellas and lady's, can have a cracking good time knocking back shandy's whilst the bible bashing, suit wearing, profuse sweaters crank up there volume in the street.

ahh, its all good friends and a big hello to you brother tony.

je-suss,

ive feel a thirst coming on after all this typing and im of for a coldie.

thank you very much punting friends