TDRI says Yingluck’s rice pledging scheme causes almost a trillion baht loss

[Jay Sata]

Newspaper reports of high society or well connected people being sent to jail are meaningless unless it can be proved they really are inside.

In most cases bail is posted and years are spent with ongoing or adjourned court cases.

It is not only Thai high flyers who use this route to escape prison.

There are several well connected Farang fraudsters who never appear in mainstream press but are on bail avoiding jail.

[Cake Monster]

Imagine all the beneficial things that could have been done with all this money that has been wasted in the rice pledge scheme.

Things like better Schools and Education, better Hospitals and Health Programs, maybe a better deal for the old folk .

Instead the good people of Thailand have suffered ( and will continue to suffer for many years), so that just a few corrupt lowlife can park their a+%*@ at the casino tables in Macao.

[TPI]

Jaysus! They never intended to make a profit, it was always intended to be a scam, the hoi paloi in Thailand will just "suck"it up! Who really cares whether the money was ripped off or burnt in the incinerator? No one will pay a price, no one will admit error, everyone connected to the scheme will have got their corner! What's the problem, upset because you missed out, you were never considered part of the scheme?

Bah Humbug!!!!

[harryfrompattaya]

The Chinese Thai do it so well. I feel sorry for the poor Thai who have lost power of their contry and wealth

This is a myth since when are Chinese Thais any different than Thais to the Chinese

Only poor Farangs even talk about Chinese Thais

What ID's do they have? Where do they vote? Where do they pay taxes? What passports do they have? What language do they speak?

Have any in the past 60 years moved back and stay they? Could they move Back?

They as much Chinese as I am or you Farang

[Thai at Heart]

The Chinese Thai do it so well. I feel sorry for the poor Thai who have lost power of their contry and wealth

This is a myth since when are Chinese Thais any different than Thais to the Chinese

Only poor Farangs even talk about Chinese Thais

What ID's do they have? Where do they vote? Where do they pay taxes? What passports do they have? What language do they speak?

Have any in the past 60 years moved back and stay they? Could they move Back?

They as much Chinese as I am or you Farang

So you think they think themselves as some completely absorbed part of Thai society, or do they have their own business associations, own temples, own festivals, and often their own language.

You are as blind as the thais.

[Tatsujin]

Just think . . . if a trillion baht was divided up between every single person in Thailand . . . that's just under 15,000 baht per person that has been "lost" . . .

[Tatsujin]

Yingluck has to go to jail. Whatever the maximum sentence that can be imposed should be imposed. Her lack of oversight of the rice scheme is mind boggling!

She won't. I am also willing to bet they do not even bother to impeach her.

This junta seems to have lost the will to go after the corruption that plagues the kingdom, assuming they ever had it to begin with.

I suspect nothing is going to change and it will be back to business as usual real soon. If the good general was serious about reform, he would have jumped on the RTP over the Koh Tao debacle. That he did nothing, and even went so far as to praise them, pretty much says it all.

You're showing signs of the frog under the coconut shell that people blame Thais for. Do you really think the murder of 2 people, in a country of 66 million that has murders everyday, should occupy the good General's time? Just because they're Brits? Are Brit lives more important? Get real.

In a country that is highly dependent on the tourist dollar (despite their repeated claims to the contrary), then yes, the good general SHOULD be more involved in that case as the mismanagement of it has badly tarnished the reputation of Thailand globally, and the RTP should be the first place the clean up should start.

[Tatsujin]

The Chinese Thai do it so well. I feel sorry for the poor Thai who have lost power of their contry and wealth

This is a myth since when are Chinese Thais any different than Thais to the Chinese

Only poor Farangs even talk about Chinese Thais

What ID's do they have? Where do they vote? Where do they pay taxes? What passports do they have? What language do they speak?

Have any in the past 60 years moved back and stay they? Could they move Back?

They as much Chinese as I am or you Farang

Are you seriously suggesting that native Thai's and Thai-Chinese live and think the same way? Get real. The Thai-Chinese own and run the whole damn country almost!

[Robespiere]

Yingluck was an awesome PM.

She is awesome now.

She will be awesome when she returns as PM in 2016.

All this rice scheme baloney is about as ridiculous as the idiotic charges filed against Thaksin, another awesome PM and before that an awesome businessman, for legally purchasing a bit of land.

Relax, sweet lady, take some rest; your country will once again need to call on your awesomeness in the near future.

[ginjag]

Yingluck was an awesome PM.

She is awesome now.

She will be awesome when she returns as PM in 2016.

All this rice scheme baloney is about as ridiculous as the idiotic charges filed against Thaksin, another awesome PM and before that an awesome businessman, for legally purchasing a bit of land.

Relax, sweet lady, take some rest; your country will once again need to call on your awesomeness in the near future.

Hey folks this guy is serious----he is not joking, he really believes this wind up post. Come on pull the other leg it's got bells on. By the way you spelt awesome wrong---should have been awful---PM of where Montenegro ??

Echo---politically motivated----altogether politically motivated.

[mikemac]

Yingluck was an awesome PM.

She is awesome now.

She will be awesome when she returns as PM in 2016.

All this rice scheme baloney is about as ridiculous as the idiotic charges filed against Thaksin, another awesome PM and before that an awesome businessman, for legally purchasing a bit of land.

Relax, sweet lady, take some rest; your country will once again need to call on your awesomeness in the near future.

Hey folks this guy is serious----he is not joking, he really believes this wind up post. Come on pull the other leg it's got bells on. By the way you spelt awesome wrong---should have been awful---PM of where Montenegro ??

Echo---politically motivated----altogether politically motivated.

Sorry gj, but I don't agree with you this time. Nobody would believe that post !

[metisdead]

A post containing a copyrighted Reuters photo has been removed. Do not hotlink to Reuters pictures even if they are posted on a third party web site.
This applies for all copyrighted pictures where posters are not owners.

[Robby nz]

Yingluck was an awesome PM.

She is awesome now.

She will be awesome when she returns as PM in 2016.

All this rice scheme baloney is about as ridiculous as the idiotic charges filed against Thaksin, another awesome PM and before that an awesome businessman, for legally purchasing a bit of land.

Relax, sweet lady, take some rest; your country will once again need to call on your awesomeness in the near future.

Robert Amsterdam strikes again.

The Thaksin PR machine at its best, or worst.

[tbthailand]

Come on, let's get the audited figures instead of continuous speculation from people like Dr. Nipon or Dr. Warong. what happen to the big hoohah on corruption. Nothing heard so far. Yes there are losses but how much is still as unknown as the little green man in Mars.

TDRI was the original basis of the NACC charges against Yingluck, but the TDRI said the NACC can't use their report as proof.

TDRI had a good point then, as now.

By definition, a subsidy costs money. Rice is not the only subsidy in Thailand costing the government money.

Audited figures would be great. In the current situation, it would not be unreasonable however, to get massaged audited figures.

Let's see how this gets hung around Yingluck's neck.

[jdinasia]

Yingluck has to go to jail. Whatever the maximum sentence that can be imposed should be imposed. Her lack of oversight of the rice scheme is mind boggling!

I do not like Yingluck but having said that I am sure glad you are not on my jury You have hanged and sentenced her before the jury is in. People like you who live on emotion and not fact are dangerous.

I suppose you would have hung the delivery man who delivered the death notice by mail.

I am so glad I do not know you

Thailand does not have a jury system.

[mikemac]

Come on, let's get the audited figures instead of continuous speculation from people like Dr. Nipon or Dr. Warong. what happen to the big hoohah on corruption. Nothing heard so far. Yes there are losses but how much is still as unknown as the little green man in Mars.

TDRI was the original basis of the NACC charges against Yingluck, but the TDRI said the NACC can't use their report as proof.

TDRI had a good point then, as now.

By definition, a subsidy costs money. Rice is not the only subsidy in Thailand costing the government money.

Audited figures would be great. In the current situation, it would not be unreasonable however, to get massaged audited figures.

Let's see how this gets hung around Yingluck's neck.

.............................."By definition, a subsidy costs money. Rice is not the only subsidy in Thailand costing the government money."...................................

You are conveniently missing the point, in your blatant defense of the previous government. If every country in the world ran their subsidies in the same manner as the PTP did, the world economy would collapse.

The PTP rice scheme was designed purely to keep the Shins noses firmly planted in the trough, no more, no less.

If the truth ever comes out about where the "lost" money went the silence from red posters will be deafening.

Hope I am around to see that day.

.........................."it would not be unreasonable however, to get massaged audited figures."..............................

The Shins based everything they did/do on "massaged figures", and lies.

[Thai at Heart]

Come on, let's get the audited figures instead of continuous speculation from people like Dr. Nipon or Dr. Warong. what happen to the big hoohah on corruption. Nothing heard so far. Yes there are losses but how much is still as unknown as the little green man in Mars.

TDRI was the original basis of the NACC charges against Yingluck, but the TDRI said the NACC can't use their report as proof.

TDRI had a good point then, as now.

By definition, a subsidy costs money. Rice is not the only subsidy in Thailand costing the government money.

Audited figures would be great. In the current situation, it would not be unreasonable however, to get massaged audited figures.

Let's see how this gets hung around Yingluck's neck.

Of course that is the problem. They can't define the crime in populist, any more than they can explain Thai law depreciation on property as being damaging to the economy.

In fact, maybe they should sue every prime minister for hurting the country by spending a single baht.

[Thai at Heart]

Come on, let's get the audited figures instead of continuous speculation from people like Dr. Nipon or Dr. Warong. what happen to the big hoohah on corruption. Nothing heard so far. Yes there are losses but how much is still as unknown as the little green man in Mars.

TDRI was the original basis of the NACC charges against Yingluck, but the TDRI said the NACC can't use their report as proof.

TDRI had a good point then, as now.

By definition, a subsidy costs money. Rice is not the only subsidy in Thailand costing the government money.

Audited figures would be great. In the current situation, it would not be unreasonable however, to get massaged audited figures.

Let's see how this gets hung around Yingluck's neck.

.............................."By definition, a subsidy costs money. Rice is not the only subsidy in Thailand costing the government money."...................................

You are conveniently missing the point, in your blatant defense of the previous government. If every country in the world ran their subsidies in the same manner as the PTP did, the world economy would collapse.

The PTP rice scheme was designed purely to keep the Shins noses firmly planted in the trough, no more, no less.

If the truth ever comes out about where the "lost" money went the silence from red posters will be deafening.

Hope I am around to see that day.

.........................."it would not be unreasonable however, to get massaged audited figures."..............................

The Shins based everything they did/do on "massaged figures", and lies.

Calm down. It didn't even sink the piddly little Thai economy. Debt to GDP still isn't at 50%.

[mikemac]

Come on, let's get the audited figures instead of continuous speculation from people like Dr. Nipon or Dr. Warong. what happen to the big hoohah on corruption. Nothing heard so far. Yes there are losses but how much is still as unknown as the little green man in Mars.

TDRI was the original basis of the NACC charges against Yingluck, but the TDRI said the NACC can't use their report as proof.

TDRI had a good point then, as now.

By definition, a subsidy costs money. Rice is not the only subsidy in Thailand costing the government money.

Audited figures would be great. In the current situation, it would not be unreasonable however, to get massaged audited figures.

Let's see how this gets hung around Yingluck's neck.

Of course that is the problem. They can't define the crime in populist, any more than they can explain Thai law depreciation on property as being damaging to the economy.

In fact, maybe they should sue every prime minister for hurting the country by spending a single baht.

..........."In fact, maybe they should sue every prime minister for hurting the country by spending a single baht."...................

A bit over the top, but maybe they could start by bringing criminal charges to every Prime Minister whose government loses say, a trillion baht. That would be a good start.

[Thai at Heart]

Come on, let's get the audited figures instead of continuous speculation from people like Dr. Nipon or Dr. Warong. what happen to the big hoohah on corruption. Nothing heard so far. Yes there are losses but how much is still as unknown as the little green man in Mars.

TDRI was the original basis of the NACC charges against Yingluck, but the TDRI said the NACC can't use their report as proof.

TDRI had a good point then, as now.

By definition, a subsidy costs money. Rice is not the only subsidy in Thailand costing the government money.

Audited figures would be great. In the current situation, it would not be unreasonable however, to get massaged audited figures.

Let's see how this gets hung around Yingluck's neck.

Of course that is the problem. They can't define the crime in populist, any more than they can explain Thai law depreciation on property as being damaging to the economy.

In fact, maybe they should sue every prime minister for hurting the country by spending a single baht.

..........."In fact, maybe they should sue every prime minister for hurting the country by spending a single baht."...................

A bit over the top, but maybe they could start by bringing criminal charges to every Prime Minister whose government loses say, a trillion baht. That would be a good start.

But, the farmers got paid, so the trillion isn't really a trillion because a hugebwwdge of that went straight into the economy.

They are even rolling in what was spent and calling that a loss. Well that's money spent, not lost. As yet, they still have 18mn tonnes left.

Who knows what it is worth as ethanol or any other. So even their definition of loss is bogus. Just watch. They won't pin anything directly on yingluck and this whole coup malarky will just be an interlude before Thaksin gets back

[Thai at Heart]

Meanwhile farmers joining the scheme obtained additional 296 billion baht in direct revenues. But after the combination of both direct and indirect revenues from the scheme, farmers obtained 561 billion baht in revenues.

I fail to see how this constitutes an absolute loss

[mikemac]

Meanwhile farmers joining the scheme obtained additional 296 billion baht in direct revenues. But after the combination of both direct and indirect revenues from the scheme, farmers obtained 561 billion baht in revenues.

I fail to see how this constitutes an absolute loss

By end of October 31 this year, it was found that 85% of rice in the stocks have lower quality than normal standard. This low quality rice resulted in the loss of 660 billion baht to the state from the pledging scheme.

Maybe you did/can not read the OP.

[Chupup]

Popular or not, someone deserves jail time, and no BAIL SO THEY CAN DO A RUNNER

[Thai at Heart]

Meanwhile farmers joining the scheme obtained additional 296 billion baht in direct revenues. But after the combination of both direct and indirect revenues from the scheme, farmers obtained 561 billion baht in revenues.

I fail to see how this constitutes an absolute loss

By end of October 31 this year, it was found that 85% of rice in the stocks have lower quality than normal standard. This low quality rice resulted in the loss of 660 billion baht to the state from the pledging scheme.

Maybe you did/can not read the OP.

Now. I worked in agribusiness. Define substandard.

So it is definitely NOT an absolute loss. They spent 500bn, but what can they sese it for, or liquidate it. So they have a loss of 660bn. The 1tn assumes storage for another 10 years which is obviously nonsensicAl.

So until they organise their numbers to reality, its all moot anyway. They might turn it to ethanol tomorrowtomorrow. Who knows.

[dcutman]

Meanwhile farmers joining the scheme obtained additional 296 billion baht in direct revenues. But after the combination of both direct and indirect revenues from the scheme, farmers obtained 561 billion baht in revenues.

I fail to see how this constitutes an absolute loss

But farmers who were benefitted from the scheme were mostly rich and medium earning farmers, rather than poor and low income farmers.

And there still this bill to be paid, witch I am pretty sure does not include debts still owed to rice mills and warehouses.

BANGKOK: -- The Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives believes it will take about seven years to clear the Bt755 billion in debts related to the previous governments' rice-pledging projects.

According to BAAC managing director Luck Wajananawat, about Bt50 billion of that debt is from the rice-subsidy scheme before 2013. The remaining amount, in excess of Bt700 billion, was piled up by the former Yingluck Shinawatra administration. It will take about seven years to clear the whole debt based on the government's current repayment rate and sale of rice stocks.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/761074-7-years-needed-to-clear-thai-rice-pledging-debts-baac/

[craigt3365]

A few posts violating forum rules have been removed from view:

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.

8) You will not post disruptive or inflammatory messages, vulgarities, obscenities or profanities.

[ginjag]

Of course that is the problem. They can't define the crime in populist, any more than they can explain Thai law depreciation on property as being damaging to the economy.

In fact, maybe they should sue every prime minister for hurting the country by spending a single baht.

..........."In fact, maybe they should sue every prime minister for hurting the country by spending a single baht."...................

A bit over the top, but maybe they could start by bringing criminal charges to every Prime Minister whose government loses say, a trillion baht. That would be a good start.

But, the farmers got paid, so the trillion isn't really a trillion because a hugebwwdge of that went straight into the economy.

They are even rolling in what was spent and calling that a loss. Well that's money spent, not lost. As yet, they still have 18mn tonnes left.

Who knows what it is worth as ethanol or any other. So even their definition of loss is bogus. Just watch. They won't pin anything directly on yingluck and this whole coup malarky will just be an interlude before Thaksin gets back

Who had to pay the farmers----and please do not come with the lame dog pig sick excuse the Protesters stopped it or the EC, or ?? They had sufficient time to pay them BEFORE the government (RETIRED)

[Robespiere]

Popular or not, someone deserves jail time, and no BAIL SO THEY CAN DO A RUNNER

Apparently he's 93.3% popular and yes he does deserve jail time.

[Robby nz]

Come on, let's get the audited figures instead of continuous speculation from people like Dr. Nipon or Dr. Warong. what happen to the big hoohah on corruption. Nothing heard so far. Yes there are losses but how much is still as unknown as the little green man in Mars.

TDRI was the original basis of the NACC charges against Yingluck, but the TDRI said the NACC can't use their report as proof.

TDRI had a good point then, as now.

By definition, a subsidy costs money. Rice is not the only subsidy in Thailand costing the government money.

Audited figures would be great. In the current situation, it would not be unreasonable however, to get massaged audited figures.

Let's see how this gets hung around Yingluck's neck.

The defense is wrong again.

The NACC have been investigating this scheme for around 2 years since after the Dems took the evidence they had collected for the 2012 no confidence debate and it has gone from there, as I posted elsewhere :

Posted 2012-11-27 05:30:59

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/600926-rice-deals-with-china-fake-thai-democrats/ NO-CONFIDENCE DEBATE

Rice deals with China fake : opposition Democrats produce evidence of a dummy firm tied to govt figures

BANGKOK: -- The opposition has established a link between the government's rice-pledging scheme and massive money laundering by producing evidence of a dummy company, individuals and old ghosts like President Agri Trading and Siam Indica, which could be found involved in non-existent rice deals.

[Robespiere]

Yingluck was an awesome PM.

She is awesome now.

She will be awesome when she returns as PM in 2016.

All this rice scheme baloney is about as ridiculous as the idiotic charges filed against Thaksin, another awesome PM and before that an awesome businessman, for legally purchasing a bit of land.

Relax, sweet lady, take some rest; your country will once again need to call on your awesomeness in the near future.

Robert Amsterdam strikes again.

The Thaksin PR machine at its best, or worst.

Comrades,

I've never yet seen one, let alone a multitude, of accusations directed at a fellow posters claiming they are in fact Suthep or Abhisit or paid members of a yellow boiler room or cogs in a PR machine.

I think this small fact says an awful lot about the quality of individuals on each side of the debate.

Regards,

Robert

Edited November 7, 2014 by Robespiere