To live and die in Thailand or not

[maidee]

ask for a second, third and fourth opinion

ask the kids to come live with you, if you prefer to be in thailand

[dennisrobertpell]

My healing thoughts are with you during this difficult time..

If it was me i would go to the sea or somewhere in nature you have had pleasure from.

Find a quite spot and meditate..You might find the answer....

[Leung Falang]

I live here half the time with my Thai wife and the other half we live in the US. I could not imagine going through the future you describe without God holding my hand. I believe there is a spiritual life ahead and that there is only one way into heaven,and that is through Jesus Christ. God tells us there are only two choices, his way or Satan's way.

Your spiritual well being is much more important than physical since we believe it is eternal.

I will pray for healing, but more important will be my prayers that you find Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.

God bless you

[tim armstrong]

Sigurris, Very sorry to hear your news. As others have said I would go wherever you think you will have the best treatment and quality of life. I had prostate cancer about 10 years ago. After the treatment which has been successful I was still only given a 50/50 chance of it not returning within five years. 10years on I have have been lucky so far, and have chosen to stay in Thailand. But my family are all travellers and its fairly easy for them to come here and vice versa. I would sit down and make a bucket list - then edit the wishful thinking ideas and come up with stuff that you want to do - for yourself, and not things that might please others. Its a tough call, but keep giving and feeling the love from all those people who are nearest and dearest to you. All the best. Tim

[louse1953]

It's all about you Sig,whatever you want to do.I rekon you will stay,so get the kids to come out for a while.You seem to have a positive attitude,chokdee.

[JockPieandBeans]

Sig

I am so sorry to hear of your diagnosis. And I hope that a 2nd and / or 3rd opinion reverses that diagnosis.

You said in your OP that you are still working. One of my biggest fears, working until I dropped.

Only you can make the decisions that are right for you. Just bear in mind that you will never please everybody.

In this instance, my thoughts would be selfish and I would be doing what suited ME.

And for me, that would be going out with a bang.

Whatever decisions you come to I wish you all the best.

May whatever God you may follow look after you.

[Chwooly]

Sorry to hear your news.

It is a hard decision but I believe that I would stay in Thailand.

Of course I would go back to (in my case) the US to visit family and friends while I still could and I would try to see what other options there are medically, 2nd opinion. but I wouldn't throw in the towel here either.

What ever you decide, I wish only the best for you and your loved ones.

[buhi]

Sorry to hear your news.

It is a hard decision but I believe that I would stay in Thailand.

Of course I would go back to (in my case) the US to visit family and friends while I still could and I would try to see what other options there are medically, 2nd opinion. but I wouldn't throw in the towel here either.

What ever you decide, I wish only the best for you and your loved ones.

Best wishes to you.

I have already made said choice and in Thailand I shall go whenever.

The problem is money of course and good treatment can be very expensive, but good care from the one you love is free and priceless.

We are just little dots out of millions, the majority of whom have no choices, no health care other than rudimentary, but most have love and family , the greatest support in time of need.

Feeling for you.

[mango66]

your kids can visit you when ever they want,

you said finances is not a question,

so you can sponsor your kids travelling,

question would be, if you want use any chance to recover,

can you get the latest medication in Thailand ?

even if you pay full for it ???

wish you good recover !!

[varun]

I guess the adage that 'Live each day as if it were your last' is truely applicable to you.

Go to places you haven't been, things you haven't done (if your health permits), so that when your time finally comes, you have no regrets.

Sorry to hear about your condition & all the best to you.

[Soiyamoto]

I would agree with many. Go home enjoy your family it will give you more strengh to fight this terrible disease i would hate to die here and as has been said the treatment will be a lot better than thailands. Whatever you decide. Good luck

[i claudius]

I could not leave my wife who I love and loves me dearly ,so I would stay,

[Liquorice]

Sigurris, so sorry to hear about your situation.

You have to consider the wishes of those nearest to you as well.

There may come a time when travel is impossible and to late to change decisions you make now.

I would spend as long as possible in Thailand, then return to the UK to be with your family.

As already said the care would be better in my opinion.

Maybe when you can face the reality of the news you can make better judgements.

Remember the loved ones you leave behind will bare the pain and heartbreak for many years to come.

You have to consider their wishes as well as your own.

I hope you can make the right choices for your own peace of mind.

Bum deal and some tough calls to make.............so sorry for your plight.

[maidee]

please read following link, hopefully not blocked my mods

IV vitamin C doubles survival time of pancreatic cancer patients in new clinical trial

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/039126_vitamin_c_chemotherapy_pancreatic_cancer.html#ixzz3IMiYLW42

[sanuk711]

Hi Sigurris

Someone sent this article to me quite some time ago---"I am not in any way saying you should take this path"------its always a personal choice, but if the article is helpful good--if its not then just discard.

But whatever good luck in your choices

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

How Doctors Die

It’s Not Like the Rest of Us, But It Should Be

Years ago, Charlie, a highly respected orthopedist and a mentor of mine, found a lump in his stomach. He had a surgeon explore the area, and the diagnosis was pancreatic cancer. This surgeon was one of the best in the country. He had even invented a new procedure for this exact cancer that could triple a patient’s five-year-survival odds—from 5 percent to 15 percent—albeit with a poor quality of life. Charlie was uninterested. He went home the next day, closed his practice, and never set foot in a hospital again. He focused on spending time with family and feeling as good as possible. Several months later, he died at home. He got no chemotherapy, radiation, or surgical treatment. Medicare didn’t spend much on him.

It’s not a frequent topic of discussion, but doctors die, too. And they don’t die like the rest of us. What’s unusual about them is not how much treatment they get compared to most Americans, but how little. For all the time they spend fending off the deaths of others, they tend to be fairly serene when faced with death themselves. They know exactly what is going to happen, they know the choices, and they generally have access to any sort of medical care they could want. But they go gently.

Of course, doctors don’t want to die; they want to live. But they know enough about modern medicine to know its limits. And they know enough about death to know what all people fear most: dying in pain, and dying alone. They’ve talked about this with their families. They want to be sure, when the time comes, that no heroic measures will happen—that they will never experience, during their last moments on earth, someone breaking their ribs in an attempt to resuscitate them with CPR (that’s what happens if CPR is done right).

Almost all medical professionals have seen what we call “futile care” being performed on people. That’s when doctors bring the cutting edge of technology to bear on a grievously ill person near the end of life. The patient will get cut open, perforated with tubes, hooked up to machines, and assaulted with drugs. All of this occurs in the Intensive Care Unit at a cost of tens of thousands of dollars a day. What it buys is misery we would not inflict on a terrorist. I cannot count the number of times fellow physicians have told me, in words that vary only slightly, “Promise me if you find me like this that you’ll kill me.” They mean it. Some medical personnel wear medallions stamped “NO CODE” to tell physicians not to perform CPR on them. I have even seen it as a tattoo.

To administer medical care that makes people suffer is anguishing. Physicians are trained to gather information without revealing any of their own feelings, but in private, among fellow doctors, they’ll vent. “How can anyone do that to their family members?” they’ll ask. I suspect it’s one reason physicians have higher rates of alcohol abuse and depression than professionals in most other fields. I know it’s one reason I stopped participating in hospital care for the last 10 years of my practice.

How has it come to this—that doctors administer so much care that they wouldn’t want for themselves? The simple, or not-so-simple, answer is this: patients, doctors, and the system.

To see how patients play a role, imagine a scenario in which someone has lost consciousness and been admitted to an emergency room. As is so often the case, no one has made a plan for this situation, and shocked and scared family members find themselves caught up in a maze of choices. They’re overwhelmed. When doctors ask if they want “everything” done, they answer yes. Then the nightmare begins. Sometimes, a family really means “do everything,” but often they just mean “do everything that’s reasonable.” The problem is that they may not know what’s reasonable, nor, in their confusion and sorrow, will they ask about it or hear what a physician may be telling them. For their part, doctors told to do “everything” will do it, whether it is reasonable or not.

The above scenario is a common one. Feeding into the problem are unrealistic expectations of what doctors can accomplish. Many people think of CPR as a reliable lifesaver when, in fact, the results are usually poor. I’ve had hundreds of people brought to me in the emergency room after getting CPR. Exactly one, a healthy man who’d had no heart troubles (for those who want specifics, he had a “tension pneumothorax”), walked out of the hospital. If a patient suffers from severe illness, old age, or a terminal disease, the odds of a good outcome from CPR are infinitesimal, while the odds of suffering are overwhelming. Poor knowledge and misguided expectations lead to a lot of bad decisions.

But of course it’s not just patients making these things happen. Doctors play an enabling role, too. The trouble is that even doctors who hate to administer futile care must find a way to address the wishes of patients and families. Imagine, once again, the emergency room with those grieving, possibly hysterical, family members. They do not know the doctor. Establishing trust and confidence under such circumstances is a very delicate thing. People are prepared to think the doctor is acting out of base motives, trying to save time, or money, or effort, especially if the doctor is advising against further treatment.

Some doctors are stronger communicators than others, and some doctors are more adamant, but the pressures they all face are similar. When I faced circumstances involving end-of-life choices, I adopted the approach of laying out only the options that I thought were reasonable (as I would in any situation) as early in the process as possible. When patients or families brought up unreasonable choices, I would discuss the issue in layman’s terms that portrayed the downsides clearly. If patients or families still insisted on treatments I considered pointless or harmful, I would offer to transfer their care to another doctor or hospital.

Should I have been more forceful at times? I know that some of those transfers still haunt me. One of the patients of whom I was most fond was an attorney from a famous political family. She had severe diabetes and terrible circulation, and, at one point, she developed a painful sore on her foot. Knowing the hazards of hospitals, I did everything I could to keep her from resorting to surgery. Still, she sought out outside experts with whom I had no relationship. Not knowing as much about her as I did, they decided to perform bypass surgery on her chronically clogged blood vessels in both legs. This didn’t restore her circulation, and the surgical wounds wouldn’t heal. Her feet became gangrenous, and she endured bilateral leg amputations. Two weeks later, in the famous medical center in which all this had occurred, she died.

It’s easy to find fault with both doctors and patients in such stories, but in many ways all the parties are simply victims of a larger system that encourages excessive treatment. In some unfortunate cases, doctors use the fee-for-service model to do everything they can, no matter how pointless, to make money. More commonly, though, doctors are fearful of litigation and do whatever they’re asked, with little feedback, to avoid getting in trouble.

Even when the right preparations have been made, the system can still swallow people up. One of my patients was a man named Jack, a 78-year-old who had been ill for years and undergone about 15 major surgical procedures. He explained to me that he never, under any circumstances, wanted to be placed on life support machines again. One Saturday, however, Jack suffered a massive stroke and got admitted to the emergency room unconscious, without his wife. Doctors did everything possible to resuscitate him and put him on life support in the ICU. This was Jack’s worst nightmare. When I arrived at the hospital and took over Jack’s care, I spoke to his wife and to hospital staff, bringing in my office notes with his care preferences. Then I turned off the life support machines and sat with him. He died two hours later.

Even with all his wishes documented, Jack hadn’t died as he’d hoped. The system had intervened. One of the nurses, I later found out, even reported my unplugging of Jack to the authorities as a possible homicide. Nothing came of it, of course; Jack’s wishes had been spelled out explicitly, and he’d left the paperwork to prove it. But the prospect of a police investigation is terrifying for any physician. I could far more easily have left Jack on life support against his stated wishes, prolonging his life, and his suffering, a few more weeks. I would even have made a little more money, and Medicare would have ended up with an additional $500,000 bill. It’s no wonder many doctors err on the side of over treatment.

But doctors still don’t over-treat themselves. They see the consequences of this constantly. Almost anyone can find a way to die in peace at home, and pain can be managed better than ever. Hospice care, which focuses on providing terminally ill patients with comfort and dignity rather than on futile cures, provides most people with much better final days. Amazingly, studies have found that people placed in hospice care often live longer than people with the same disease who are seeking active cures. I was struck to hear on the radio recently that the famous reporter Tom Wicker had “died peacefully at home, surrounded by his family.” Such stories are, thankfully, increasingly common.

If there is a state of the art of end-of-life care, it is this: death with dignity. As for me, my physician has my choices. They were easy to make, as they are for most physicians. There will be no heroics, and I will go gentle into that good night. Like my fellow doctors.

Ken Murray, MD, is Clinical Assistant Professor of Family Medicine at USC.

[dotpoom]

You are in my prayers today and everyday......

Thought this was something to think about.......

Never looked at it this way

THE AUTHOR IS NOT KNOWN. IT WAS FOUND IN THE BILLFOLD OF COACH PAUL BEAR BRYANT, ALABAMA, AFTER HE DIED IN 1982

The Magic Bank Account

Imagine that you had won the following *PRIZE* in a contest: Each morning your bank would deposit $86,400 in your private account for your use. However, this prize has rules. The set of rules:

1. Everything that you didn't spend during each day would be taken away from you.

2. You may not simply transfer money into some other account.

3. You may only spend it.

4. Each morning upon awakening, the bank opens your account with another $86,400 for that day.

5. The bank can end the game without warning; at any time it can say, “Game Over!". It can close the account and you will not receive a new one.

What would you personally do?

You would buy anything and everything you wanted right? Not only for yourself, but for all the people you love and care for. Even for people you don't know, because you couldn't possibly spend it all on yourself, right?

You would try to spend every penny, and use it all, because you knew it would be replenished in the morning, right?

ACTUALLY, This GAME is REAL ...Shocked ??? YES!

Each of us is already a winner of this *PRIZE*. We just can't seem to see it.

The PRIZE is *TIME*

1. Each morning we awaken to receive 86,400 seconds as a gift of life.

2. And when we go to sleep at night, any remaining time is not credited to us.

3. What we haven't used up that day is forever lost.

4. Yesterday is forever gone.

5. Each morning the account is refilled, but the bank can dissolve your account at any time without warning...

So, what will you do with your 86,400 seconds?

Those seconds are worth so much more than the same amount in dollars.

Think about it and remember to enjoy every second of your life, because time races by so much

quicker than you think

[jpeg]

I stayed, after a near fatal accident, despite family asking me to return to the UK. I can well understand your feeling you'd 'be going home to die'. And as another poster said, being in someone else's home, even family's, could make you feel worse. I knew a guy here who returned and passed two weeks later, in a UK hospital. So no guarantees there. As for prognosis, same. It is perfectly possible to arrange for daily home nursing care/morphine from your local hospital and stay in Thailand.

All those suggesting 'bucket lists', as someone rightly pointed out, the OP mightn't be up to it and I personally would simply carry on with my usual routine as long as I was able. Get the kids over, if you must. I wouldn't want family hovering around looking sad and sympathetic, but your choice of course.

'We don't die, we just change worlds' - Chief Seattle

[grabitanrun]

I will say a prayer for you.

Do whatever your heart tells you, I think some of the posts are correct, in that situation I would always trust UK healthcare over Thailand but what really matters is what you want.

I've had three of my friends diagnosed with terminal cancer in the last 2 months, it seems to be way more prevalent now.

I wish you well and hope you find some recovery from this.

[mrfaroukh]

Very sorry to hear this. If you really want to fight it be positive and move to UK, you get better treatment there. You should not think that you are going there to die but to be with your dear one and fight the cancer both for yourself and them.

[khunPer]

Very sad to read your OP.

I would follow my heart, feeling good in Thailand I would certainly stay here. Going home – feeling “going home to die” – would be like giving up and cutting any hope...

I think David48 (post #4) says pretty much the same as I will say.

However, one more thing I would also do is, to look for any alternative cure – as there seems to be no conventional medicine for recovery, then trying something scientific unproven may not harm – and try the one cure or two I believe most in and feel is right for me.

Without any recommendation and only for information: Even there are no scientific results in form of proven final studies, many alternative cancer cures has some interesting records, like THC oil (which unfortunately is illegal in many countries, but legally available in some US States); or curcuma, of which one root growing in Northern Thailand is said to have some positive effect or at least boost immune system for improved better-feeling. Another, but more questioned cure seems to be “Graviola”. All three named cures have a number of interesting preliminary scientific studies showing positive results – but there might be more.

If I was you, I would spent some time right away searching the Internet, both Google and Google-scholar (special search-engine for released scientific studies, sometimes little difficult to read and understand) may show some interesting possibilities...

I wish you all the best for recovery and a long(er) life...

[Mudcrab]

Very sad to read your OP.

I would follow my heart, feeling good in Thailand I would certainly stay here. Going home – feeling “going home to die” – would be like giving up and cutting any hope...

I think David48 (post #4) says pretty much the same as I will say.

However, one more thing I would also do is, to look for any alternative cure – as there seems to be no conventional medicine for recovery, then trying something scientific unproven may not harm – and try the one cure or two I believe most in and feel is right for me.

Without any recommendation and only for information: Even there are no scientific results in form of proven final studies, many alternative cancer cures has some interesting records, like THC oil (which unfortunately is illegal in many countries, but legally available in some US States); or curcuma, of which one root growing in Northern Thailand is said to have some positive effect or at least boost immune system for improved better-feeling. Another, but more questioned cure seems to be “Graviola”. All three named cures have a number of interesting preliminary scientific studies showing positive results – but there might be more.

If I was you, I would spent some time right away searching the Internet, both Google and Google-scholar (special search-engine for released scientific studies, sometimes little difficult to read and understand) may show some interesting possibilities...

I wish you all the best for recovery and a long(er) life...

Gerson Institute is interesting...worth looking

Edited November 7, 2014 by Mudcrab

[jpeg]

[Si Thea01]

I don't know you but you have my sympathy. I have not had this disease however, I lost a wife14 years ago from the scourge. Fight as hard as you can and hopefully you might beat it or at least will not suffer. No one can really tell you what to do, that is up to you. If you are happy here and have a good group of family and friends surrounding you, then take this into account.

You have children, which you indicate you love dearly, the again, to return home to die is a decision only you can make. I made a decision ten years ago to retire here, which I did 2 years ago and although I too have children (3) in Australia, they are aware that I have married a Thai women and live very comfortable in this country and will not return. My wife and I love each other dearly and know that whatever happens to either of us is our burden, not our children's.

I have made the decision not to return home should I become ill and if and when I pass on, not to soon I hope, my wife knows that I am to be cremated and my ashes scattered over the South China Sea. I am not worried about medical costs as I am reasonably well off and with life assurance policies my wife will not want so my decision was easy to make.

Again my heart goes out to you and really hope that you are able to fight hard and put a little more time in your life.

[off road pat]

most things have been said by other op's,

Witch ever decision you take,? go for it....and don't regret.....live it the full.

Sort your finances out, take care of your girlfriend,......

Don't trust other people to do things after your gone,....so many people don't keep there word.....

One of my good friends asked his son to take care financialy of his girlfriend, He lend a lot of money to his son previously...and asked his son to give back the money to his Girl friend after he departed.....witch sadly the son never did......!!!!

take care of everything yourself.....

The bucket list comes to mind,....

have a good one before you go.....!!!!!!

I wish you well.....

One of my Hawaiian friends of Japanese Origin, departed of the same causes.a couple of years ago in Chiang Mai. and arranged a sort of get to getter drink for all his friends after he's departure.... that was nice.....!!!

Edited November 7, 2014 by off road pat

[ggt]

It is your life...follow your heart...

You many want your children to remember you as a healthy man...not put them thru the trauma of watching you deteriorate...

[JDGRUEN]

OP ... my heart is with you ... decisions at this time - one who is not so affected cannot even imagine... But God Bless you ...

And I think there can be hope... if you have money - savings and really want to give it a go ... try a major cancer treatment center in America on your way home to the U.K. ... There are some strong cancer treatment centers in places like M.D. Anderson in Houston, TX -- one of the most renown cancer treatment centers anywhere in the world.

Your prognosis given in Thailand may be colored by what treatment can be given here. So I suggest - not give up until you have dealt with the ultimate in cancer therapy ... if you have the money to do it.

And as others have suggested - if your have a really good relationship with your Girlfriend - take her with you ... God Speed Dear Fine Fellow...

[WhamBam]

It is your life...follow your heart...

You many want your children to remember you as a healthy man...not put them thru the trauma of watching you deteriorate...

A sentiment I truly believe in.

Yet whatever you do, try to get them to understand and give their consent, though you are never going to make everyone happy.

[ableguy]

Sorry to hear your news.

Pain relief in a hospice in the UK has no equivalent here, knew someone here died of renal cancer in agony. As morphine seems not to be used in terminally ill people, must say I have not researched this, but wish all the best and a longer life than predicted.

[Opl]

Sigurris, I would stay where love is.

You will fight and everyday will count. It's a hard time to go through - step by step - to make yours all the process, don't stay alone, you have to have someone willing to share this time with you : someone who has time to take you to your appointments , medical exams, results..etc...

[ClutchClark]

Probably been covered but is the return of your body going to be problematic for your children stateside? Or possibly you are intending to have your remains interred here in Thailand.