Democrats opposed to compromises on justice in push for reconciliation

[Robespiere]

Mr Robespierre, nobody forced you to react, but you felt compelled to, and you, being somewhere out of sensible arguments, couldn't resist the urge to call me names. Outside of personality issues this could be telling about, which amittedly are not of my concern, and other members here will make an opinion of their own about, I will not accept it. When you would do it again, I would have to report you for abuse. Are we clear about that?

As you present me the opportunity on a platter though, let me return and have some fun about you. Like telling you, when I would have to make a choice between being a 'peanut' and being a 'nut' like you, I'd go for the peanut, anytime. With 'yellow' you entered a danger zone, wasn't it you declaring you were by no means 'affiliated' to any colour-coded movement, just being an unbiased critical individual? Well, I can't remember anyone calling another person 'yellow' when not being 'red' himself (or the exact opposite actually), and, by doing so, you might have exposed yourself, a lot. Sorry for your obsessions, I am not 'yellow', oh no, not at all, but does it matter, as it seems to be the final argument used by Thaksin/Yingluck/Shins/PTP/UDD/'reds' worshippers when out of any sensible one, so, maybe, when coming out of your guys' mouths(!), I should feel honoured.

As for the first proposition in your sentence, it is also as coming from a child getting angry for not being able to get what it wants. Though 're-arranging' it, it might make some sense, IMO, that there was such nonsense in the actions of the PTP 'government' that international financial experts with credentials wouldn't have wasted their time about it... It is childish to reverse your words like that, I know, but it seems that behind the artifacts you use, it is the way you should be treated, as a temperamental child. Please, prove me to be wrong... Starting to answer, in a sensible, polite and factual way, the points others, not sharing your views and opinions, make, might be a very good start.

Take good care of yourself.

I've not declared impartiality.

The lesser of two evils in this dispute is quite obvious.

The Yellows are a dragon that needs slaying and Thaksin and his band of merry red men are the ones best positioned to do the deed - democratically of course.

BTW - The grammar is fine as it is.

[Robespiere]

"What part is not true.. that Newin changed and formed an alliance with the democrats and that they had a majority after that ?

Are you denying that coalition governments exists?"

New Thai prime minister chosen - CSMonitor.com

His coalition was bolted together under military pressure that induced pro-Thaksin lawmakers to cross the floor, but is beset by competing agendas and turf wars.

Yes.. the military pressured for a switch and the switch happened.. nothing wrong with it a lobby could have done the same. Nothing illegal about switching coalitions.

Maybe some manipulated members here were too young and/or not living in Thailand at the time, to remember about the ones who helped Mr Thaksin in the saddle on his way with his new TRT to disputable elections, games and lies about assets, and other niceties, to become PM, weren't it... the Military, wasn't there a coup? When they are old enough and know about recent History, they have no excuse to get agitated about a (counter-)coup, while it was a coup that freed the way for their master to reach power over the country in the first place! Or is it a 'logic'(?!) of: coup-for-Thaksin-good-coup, coup-against-Thaksin-bad-coup kind of neanderthal stuff? It would be very 'telling' about a large group of people a Reconciliation is to be achieved with, and what will become of the whole thing too soon after, when they are let getting what they are told to want... The responsibility of Khun Prayuth and his team is immense, let us all hope they don't make out of it what we have, alas, become used to of Thailand...

Who needs old age when we have google and wiki to expose the garbage in many a yellow post (e.g. the one above).

[rubl]

I've not declared impartiality.

The lesser of two evils in this dispute is quite obvious.

The Yellows are a dragon that needs slaying and Thaksin and his band of merry red men are the ones best positioned to do the deed - democratically of course.

BTW - The grammar is fine as it is.

'democratically, of course'

That reminds me of Dr. weng with his 'eradicate the Democrat party (or was it just the democrats?). Plus his wife Ms. Thida upping the ante with 'time to wipe out the last of the reactionaries. All democratically of course

[jpeg]

Christ! Weasel words much? How about, here we go again 'Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it' as evidenced by the insane, now, NINETEEN coups here.

BTW Nelson Mandela should absolutely NOT be quoted/associated with the circus that is Thailand

So how to end the madness?

Carry on with tit for tat forever more?

Or draw a line in the sand, let bygones be bygones, pass an amnesty bill and get on with growing up as a modern, free, open, democratic and equal society.

Can the Thais not "learn from Mandela" to prevent being "doomed to repeating" their erroneous ways?

The more Thais that follow the examples set by the likes of Mandela and Gandhi, the better off the nation will be.

The madness wouldn't exist if democracy had been allowed to develop here instead of the army constantly waiting in the wings with their guns to put down any moves towards it. Our Western democracies were fought for, and unpalatable as that thought is, the fact remains democracy should have been allowed to have been fought for here. No pain no gain.

The particular traits of character possessed by Mandela and Gandhi will never be found in anyone here. Their culture doesn't allow for such development.

You underestimate the Thai underclasses.

They are good people saddled with a horrid elite.

Democracy will wash away the filth and Thailand will eventually produce its very own Jokowi.

Your stating I underestimate the 'Thai underclass' is presumptuous and says more about you and your apparent 'defender of the poor' mantle than that which I actually posted, which was that Thai culture does not allow for such development. Nothing about the 'underclass', and I am not alone in this view. You may find Thai Fulbright scholar Suntaree Komin's PDF NATIONAL CHARACTER IN THE THAI NINE VALUES ORIENTATIONS illuminating.

Do get off the Red versus Yellow thing. It's making you look mentally incapable of anything but binary choices.

Edited November 9, 2014 by jpeg

[Robespiere]

Just horse trading.. and yes Newin got the posts he wanted (and was corrupt as hell and I don't like corruption so not a friend of mine.. same as Suthep.. not someone I like).

But nothing illegal about swapping sides, they were voted in.

In my homeland we got real democracy.. here because of vote buying and corruption there is none. So to compare Thai democracy with the one in my home country is as crazy as comparing Thaksin with Mandela like you are doing.

Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong.

So Newin was bribed - isn't that corruption?

So the military was involved using strong arm tactics - isn't that anti-democratic?

Vote buying is a non issue - always has been.

I'm not comparing Thaksin with Mandela at all.

I am stating that Thailand should follow Mandela's example and focus on truth and reconciliation and forget about vengeance, i.e. all sides should support an amnesty bill that absolves all the murderers and thieves from both sides, the only price the criminals should have to pay is that all their dirty deeds must be revealed in full to all the citizens of the nation and they must live the rest of their lives with each and every one of their fellow citizens knowing what they have done.

And let's not forget the stuff you failed to comment on....

the unjust and illegal dismissal of 2 sitting Prime Ministers, the unjust and illegal disbanding of the nations largest political party and the unjust and illegal blockading of the national airport.

This is not a normal way a change of government occurs in any nation on this planet.

Only a peanut would think it is.

"And let's not forget the stuff you failed to comment on....

the unjust and illegal dismissal of 2 sitting Prime Ministers, the unjust and illegal disbanding of the nations largest political party and the unjust and illegal blockading of the national airport."

First point; Samak was dismissed for accepting money working on his cooking show and lying about it, that is illegal here in Thailand and in many other countries, both a legal and just outcome.

Second point: Somchai was dismissed when he lost his MP status after PPP was disbanded for electoral fraud, both a legal and just outcome.

Third point:

Forum Rules

2) You will not use ThaiVisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, inaccurate, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law.

By one method or another, four sitting Prime Ministers have been removed from office, not by the nations citizens, but by a coalition made up of the military, the plutocracy and the bureaucracy.

The fact that one side in this war for the future of the nation is rotten to the core is true, accurate, public and not in violation of any reasonable law.

[ginjag]

Just horse trading.. and yes Newin got the posts he wanted (and was corrupt as hell and I don't like corruption so not a friend of mine.. same as Suthep.. not someone I like).

But nothing illegal about swapping sides, they were voted in.

In my homeland we got real democracy.. here because of vote buying and corruption there is none. So to compare Thai democracy with the one in my home country is as crazy as comparing Thaksin with Mandela like you are doing.

Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong.

So Newin was bribed - isn't that corruption?

So the military was involved using strong arm tactics - isn't that anti-democratic?

Vote buying is a non issue - always has been.

I'm not comparing Thaksin with Mandela at all.

I am stating that Thailand should follow Mandela's example and focus on truth and reconciliation and forget about vengeance, i.e. all sides should support an amnesty bill that absolves all the murderers and thieves from both sides, the only price the criminals should have to pay is that all their dirty deeds must be revealed in full to all the citizens of the nation and they must live the rest of their lives with each and every one of their fellow citizens knowing what they have done.

And let's not forget the stuff you failed to comment on....

the unjust and illegal dismissal of 2 sitting Prime Ministers, the unjust and illegal disbanding of the nations largest political party and the unjust and illegal blockading of the national airport.

This is not a normal way a change of government occurs in any nation on this planet.

Only a peanut would think it is.

"And let's not forget the stuff you failed to comment on....

the unjust and illegal dismissal of 2 sitting Prime Ministers, the unjust and illegal disbanding of the nations largest political party and the unjust and illegal blockading of the national airport."

First point; Samak was dismissed for accepting money working on his cooking show and lying about it, that is illegal here in Thailand and in many other countries, both a legal and just outcome.

Second point: Somchai was dismissed when he lost his MP status after PPP was disbanded for electoral fraud, both a legal and just outcome.

Third point:

Forum Rules

2) You will not use ThaiVisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, inaccurate, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law.

By one method or another, four sitting Prime Ministers have been removed from office, not by the nations citizens, but by a coalition made up of the military, the plutocracy and the bureaucracy.

The fact that one side in this war for the future of the nation is rotten to the core is true, accurate, public and not in violation of any reasonable law.

How many time do you have to repeat this rubbish---you already have taken over the topic--still churning out the same stuff--- military coup ++++++

endless drivel .......you can have the thread to yourself, in fact you could slip up and mistakenly answer your own thread.

3 topics your jumping from one to another as though you were on hot coals---I applaud your stamina only.

[bangrak]

There will never be democracy in Thailand until the rich and poor are treated equal by the law. In other words the rich will always get their way by buying their way. Until this changes democracy wont happen.

Democracy is the agent of change.

It is why the elites are fighting so hard against it.

Good will triumph over evil, democracy will be re-established and eventually there will be equality.

A time of great change is coming.....

Are you in the twilight years ??? The sabre tooth must have said that at some time.

Hush, Robespierre was maybe going to annouce he pulled out of TV, under this alias at least...!

'Grotesque' was the first word coming into my mind when reading it. And later 'nonsensical' as his master and its clan, are the epitome of both new and old elites' greed and flaws, are the (most recent) great evil that has fallen upon the Kingdom, and the good to cleanse the country from them has yet still to rise, democracy has never until today been established in Thailand, although it has its monument, to remember: a palace... 'coup' intiated by disgrunted ...elites abroad, a just and social King had deprived of some subsidies they considered as their birthright, while He was confronted with a hungering nation, and empty coffers caused by the 1930 meltdown, and there will not possibly be, any, equality before the masses become educated, and aware they need to fight to get any, the prime reason for the elites not to grant the people any such... So what? Thaksin &Co., the UDD, the 'reds' as ...saviours, maybe? Should I then conclude with 'delusional'? Ah, Robespierre...

[Eric Loh]

Just horse trading.. and yes Newin got the posts he wanted (and was corrupt as hell and I don't like corruption so not a friend of mine.. same as Suthep.. not someone I like).

But nothing illegal about swapping sides, they were voted in.

In my homeland we got real democracy.. here because of vote buying and corruption there is none. So to compare Thai democracy with the one in my home country is as crazy as comparing Thaksin with Mandela like you are doing.

Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong.

So Newin was bribed - isn't that corruption?

So the military was involved using strong arm tactics - isn't that anti-democratic?

Vote buying is a non issue - always has been.

I'm not comparing Thaksin with Mandela at all.

I am stating that Thailand should follow Mandela's example and focus on truth and reconciliation and forget about vengeance, i.e. all sides should support an amnesty bill that absolves all the murderers and thieves from both sides, the only price the criminals should have to pay is that all their dirty deeds must be revealed in full to all the citizens of the nation and they must live the rest of their lives with each and every one of their fellow citizens knowing what they have done.

And let's not forget the stuff you failed to comment on....

the unjust and illegal dismissal of 2 sitting Prime Ministers, the unjust and illegal disbanding of the nations largest political party and the unjust and illegal blockading of the national airport.

This is not a normal way a change of government occurs in any nation on this planet.

Only a peanut would think it is.

"And let's not forget the stuff you failed to comment on....

the unjust and illegal dismissal of 2 sitting Prime Ministers, the unjust and illegal disbanding of the nations largest political party and the unjust and illegal blockading of the national airport."

First point; Samak was dismissed for accepting money working on his cooking show and lying about it, that is illegal here in Thailand and in many other countries, both a legal and just outcome.

Second point: Somchai was dismissed when he lost his MP status after PPP was disbanded for electoral fraud, both a legal and just outcome.

Third point: Forum Rules

2) You will not use ThaiVisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, inaccurate, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law.

Sorry, not quite the way you wrote. Constitution state that you committed an offense if you are employee of the cooking show. He was not. He was the contractor of the show and receive no money. However the court in their idioscrantic predictable manner, expanded the defination of employee and convicted him.

As for Somchai, many until today called that a judiciary coup.

The ThaiVisa clause also meant for you.

[Fatty123]

History tells us that people power usually wins in the end. Even China and North Korea are aware of this and look how far they have to go to keep the elite in control. My worry is that Thailand may be heading down the road to being a totalitarian state. That happens when it's the only way for the elite to stay in control and when they aren't willing to let the nation develop for all, in order to keep most of the nation as their obedient, subervient slaves.

Totalitarianism usually starts with statues, youth indoctrination, re-writing a (false) history, OTT nationalism, military control and a lack of freedom of speech.

How may of those can you check off?

[bangrak]

Mr Robespierre, nobody forced you to react, but you felt compelled to, and you, being somewhere out of sensible arguments, couldn't resist the urge to call me names. Outside of personality issues this could be telling about, which amittedly are not of my concern, and other members here will make an opinion of their own about, I will not accept it. When you would do it again, I would have to report you for abuse. Are we clear about that?

As you present me the opportunity on a platter though, let me return and have some fun about you. Like telling you, when I would have to make a choice between being a 'peanut' and being a 'nut' like you, I'd go for the peanut, anytime. With 'yellow' you entered a danger zone, wasn't it you declaring you were by no means 'affiliated' to any colour-coded movement, just being an unbiased critical individual? Well, I can't remember anyone calling another person 'yellow' when not being 'red' himself (or the exact opposite actually), and, by doing so, you might have exposed yourself, a lot. Sorry for your obsessions, I am not 'yellow', oh no, not at all, but does it matter, as it seems to be the final argument used by Thaksin/Yingluck/Shins/PTP/UDD/'reds' worshippers when out of any sensible one, so, maybe, when coming out of your guys' mouths(!), I should feel honoured.

As for the first proposition in your sentence, it is also as coming from a child getting angry for not being able to get what it wants. Though 're-arranging' it, it might make some sense, IMO, that there was such nonsense in the actions of the PTP 'government' that international financial experts with credentials wouldn't have wasted their time about it... It is childish to reverse your words like that, I know, but it seems that behind the artifacts you use, it is the way you should be treated, as a temperamental child. Please, prove me to be wrong... Starting to answer, in a sensible, polite and factual way, the points others, not sharing your views and opinions, make, might be a very good start.

Take good care of yourself.

I've not declared impartiality.

The lesser of two evils in this dispute is quite obvious.

The Yellows are a dragon that needs slaying and Thaksin and his band of merry red men are the ones best positioned to do the deed - democratically of course.

BTW - The grammar is fine as it is.

Outside of never, ever give any reaction on facts he is confronted to and which are not 'going his way', I really, honestly, and seriously, ask myself questions about Robespierre being well, mentally I mean. It reminds me more and more of the blind and obstinate logorhoea of those mad propagandists from a neighbouring country who thaught Weng,Thida and others their 'crafts' while being given a refuge in Thailand...

[MaiChai]

I am familiar with all the elite/red arguments. I am personally sitting on the fence with the bias towards the elites, primarily because i did not like what happened when the so called peoples party got in power, and they were clearly more in it for themselves than the greater good of the country. Thailand is currently a much nicer place to be than when PT were in power.

[bangrak]

History tells us that people power usually wins in the end. Even China and North Korea are aware of this and look how far they have to go to keep the elite in control. My worry is that Thailand may be heading down the road to being a totalitarian state. That happens when it's the only way for the elite to stay in control and when they aren't willing to let the nation develop for all, in order to keep most of the nation as their obedient, subervient slaves.

Totalitarianism usually starts with statues, youth indoctrination, re-writing a (false) history, OTT nationalism, military control and a lack of freedom of speech.

How may of those can you check off?

When you mean today, I can check on two. When you mean before, during the 'Thaksin regime', I would check on four for sure.

I realise this is not the way you wanted to have it with checking off, but...

[Robespiere]

You underestimate the Thai underclasses.

They are good people saddled with a horrid elite.

Democracy will wash away the filth and Thailand will eventually produce its very own Jokowi.

Your stating I underestimate the 'Thai underclass' is presumptuous and says more about you and your apparent 'defender of the poor' mantle than that which I actually posted, which was that Thai culture does not allow for such development. Nothing about the 'underclass', and I am not alone in this view. You may find Thai Fulbright scholar Suntaree Komin's PDF NATIONAL CHARACTER IN THE THAI NINE VALUES ORIENTATIONS illuminating.

Do get off the Red versus Yellow thing. It's making you look mentally incapable of anything but binary choices.

You tar 65,000,000 people with the one brush and then advise me to broaden my horizons.

It appears my binary mental capabilities are at the very least, double yours.

[Robespiere]

There will never be democracy in Thailand until the rich and poor are treated equal by the law. In other words the rich will always get their way by buying their way. Until this changes democracy wont happen.

Democracy is the agent of change.

It is why the elites are fighting so hard against it.

Good will triumph over evil, democracy will be re-established and eventually there will be equality.

A time of great change is coming.....

Are you in the twilight years ??? The sabre tooth must have said that at some time.

Hush, Robespierre was maybe going to annouce he pulled out of TV, under this alias at least...!

'Grotesque' was the first word coming into my mind when reading it. And later 'nonsensical' as his master and its clan, are the epitome of both new and old elites' greed and flaws, are the (most recent) great evil that has fallen upon the Kingdom, and the good to cleanse the country from them has yet still to rise, democracy has never until today been established in Thailand, although it has its monument, to remember: a palace... 'coup' intiated by disgrunted ...elites abroad, a just and social King had deprived of some subsidies they considered as their birthright, while He was confronted with a hungering nation, and empty coffers caused by the 1930 meltdown, and there will not possibly be, any, equality before the masses become educated, and aware they need to fight to get any, the prime reason for the elites not to grant the people any such... So what? Thaksin &Co., the UDD, the 'reds' as ...saviours, maybe? Should I then conclude with 'delusional'? Ah, Robespierre...

I've got a new favourite word.....Indecipherable.

[Robespiere]

Mr Robespierre, nobody forced you to react, but you felt compelled to, and you, being somewhere out of sensible arguments, couldn't resist the urge to call me names. Outside of personality issues this could be telling about, which amittedly are not of my concern, and other members here will make an opinion of their own about, I will not accept it. When you would do it again, I would have to report you for abuse. Are we clear about that?

As you present me the opportunity on a platter though, let me return and have some fun about you. Like telling you, when I would have to make a choice between being a 'peanut' and being a 'nut' like you, I'd go for the peanut, anytime. With 'yellow' you entered a danger zone, wasn't it you declaring you were by no means 'affiliated' to any colour-coded movement, just being an unbiased critical individual? Well, I can't remember anyone calling another person 'yellow' when not being 'red' himself (or the exact opposite actually), and, by doing so, you might have exposed yourself, a lot. Sorry for your obsessions, I am not 'yellow', oh no, not at all, but does it matter, as it seems to be the final argument used by Thaksin/Yingluck/Shins/PTP/UDD/'reds' worshippers when out of any sensible one, so, maybe, when coming out of your guys' mouths(!), I should feel honoured.

As for the first proposition in your sentence, it is also as coming from a child getting angry for not being able to get what it wants. Though 're-arranging' it, it might make some sense, IMO, that there was such nonsense in the actions of the PTP 'government' that international financial experts with credentials wouldn't have wasted their time about it... It is childish to reverse your words like that, I know, but it seems that behind the artifacts you use, it is the way you should be treated, as a temperamental child. Please, prove me to be wrong... Starting to answer, in a sensible, polite and factual way, the points others, not sharing your views and opinions, make, might be a very good start.

Take good care of yourself.

I've not declared impartiality.

The lesser of two evils in this dispute is quite obvious.

The Yellows are a dragon that needs slaying and Thaksin and his band of merry red men are the ones best positioned to do the deed - democratically of course.

BTW - The grammar is fine as it is.

Outside of never, ever give any reaction on facts he is confronted to and which are not 'going his way', I really, honestly, and seriously, ask myself questions about Robespierre being well, mentally I mean. It reminds me more and more of the blind and obstinate logorhoea of those mad propagandists from a neighbouring country who thaught Weng,Thida and others their 'crafts' while being given a refuge in Thailand...

Much to my surprise, logorrhoea is actually a word.

No doubt you learnt it as a result of a diagnosis.

[bangrak]

Christ! Weasel words much? How about, here we go again 'Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it' as evidenced by the insane, now, NINETEEN coups here.

BTW Nelson Mandela should absolutely NOT be quoted/associated with the circus that is Thailand

So how to end the madness?

Carry on with tit for tat forever more?

Or draw a line in the sand, let bygones be bygones, pass an amnesty bill and get on with growing up as a modern, free, open, democratic and equal society.

Can the Thais not "learn from Mandela" to prevent being "doomed to repeating" their erroneous ways?

The more Thais that follow the examples set by the likes of Mandela and Gandhi, the better off the nation will be.

You, asking about how to end the madness, this might well be a significant first step towards a cure. Good luck anyways!

You should though also try with our help to stop writing crazy things like here above, but everything step by step. Let us first try not to abuse the name of Mr Mandela, maybe, please... Easy going! And tomorrow we will do the same with Mr Gandhi too, OK with you? Goood!

[bangrak]

Mr Robespierre, nobody forced you to react, but you felt compelled to, and you, being somewhere out of sensible arguments, couldn't resist the urge to call me names. Outside of personality issues this could be telling about, which amittedly are not of my concern, and other members here will make an opinion of their own about, I will not accept it. When you would do it again, I would have to report you for abuse. Are we clear about that?

As you present me the opportunity on a platter though, let me return and have some fun about you. Like telling you, when I would have to make a choice between being a 'peanut' and being a 'nut' like you, I'd go for the peanut, anytime. With 'yellow' you entered a danger zone, wasn't it you declaring you were by no means 'affiliated' to any colour-coded movement, just being an unbiased critical individual? Well, I can't remember anyone calling another person 'yellow' when not being 'red' himself (or the exact opposite actually), and, by doing so, you might have exposed yourself, a lot. Sorry for your obsessions, I am not 'yellow', oh no, not at all, but does it matter, as it seems to be the final argument used by Thaksin/Yingluck/Shins/PTP/UDD/'reds' worshippers when out of any sensible one, so, maybe, when coming out of your guys' mouths(!), I should feel honoured.

As for the first proposition in your sentence, it is also as coming from a child getting angry for not being able to get what it wants. Though 're-arranging' it, it might make some sense, IMO, that there was such nonsense in the actions of the PTP 'government' that international financial experts with credentials wouldn't have wasted their time about it... It is childish to reverse your words like that, I know, but it seems that behind the artifacts you use, it is the way you should be treated, as a temperamental child. Please, prove me to be wrong... Starting to answer, in a sensible, polite and factual way, the points others, not sharing your views and opinions, make, might be a very good start.

Take good care of yourself.

I've not declared impartiality.

The lesser of two evils in this dispute is quite obvious.

The Yellows are a dragon that needs slaying and Thaksin and his band of merry red men are the ones best positioned to do the deed - democratically of course.

BTW - The grammar is fine as it is.

Outside of never, ever give any reaction on facts he is confronted to and which are not 'going his way', I really, honestly, and seriously, ask myself questions about Robespierre being well, mentally I mean. It reminds me more and more of the blind and obstinate logorhoea of those mad propagandists from a neighbouring country who thaught Weng,Thida and others their 'crafts' while being given a refuge in Thailand...

Much to my surprise, logorrhoea is actually a word.

No doubt you learnt it as a result of a diagnosis.

I'm afraid what it does alas is to confirm what I 'diagnosed' about you, very typical indeed, the patient is alright, it are the doctors and nurses not being well in their head... Anything factual to say about the Khmer Rouge students? No? Thought so, never mind...

P.S.: Like 'Monsieur Jourdain' who was writing in prosa without even knowing it, you produce... logorrhoea, simple as that (and try to find out about that on Wiki, before telling I got it from there, start with 'Molière'...), I'm sure Robespierre (the real one, sorry) knew about this...

Edited November 9, 2014 by bangrak

[bangrak]

Democracy is the agent of change.

It is why the elites are fighting so hard against it.

Good will triumph over evil, democracy will be re-established and eventually there will be equality.

A time of great change is coming.....

Are you in the twilight years ??? The sabre tooth must have said that at some time.

Hush, Robespierre was maybe going to annouce he pulled out of TV, under this alias at least...!

'Grotesque' was the first word coming into my mind when reading it. And later 'nonsensical' as his master and its clan, are the epitome of both new and old elites' greed and flaws, are the (most recent) great evil that has fallen upon the Kingdom, and the good to cleanse the country from them has yet still to rise, democracy has never until today been established in Thailand, although it has its monument, to remember: a palace... 'coup' intiated by disgrunted ...elites abroad, a just and social King had deprived of some subsidies they considered as their birthright, while He was confronted with a hungering nation, and empty coffers caused by the 1930 meltdown, and there will not possibly be, any, equality before the masses become educated, and aware they need to fight to get any, the prime reason for the elites not to grant the people any such... So what? Thaksin &Co., the UDD, the 'reds' as ...saviours, maybe? Should I then conclude with 'delusional'? Ah, Robespierre...

I've got a new favourite word.....Indecipherable.

From the French 'indéchiffrable', 'chiffre' not being a figure or so here, but a code, a secret writing ('message chiffré' = encoded message = a message in cipher), good from you! We try another one to add to your vocabulary tomorrow?

[tbthailand]

I'm not Thai, so I cannot fathom all the meanders of Thainess, but, IMHO, true 'Reconciliation' can impossibly be achieved in the way the Thaksin/Shins/PTP/UDD partisans want to have it. To me, it is as if(?) they would want to abuse the principles of reconciliation to become in the end the general amnesty they could not become while having used up every, any, even the most crooked, means they could think of at the time. To me their plea sounds as honest as when they pretend to be wanting 'free and fair' elections, NOT then...

True 'Reconciliation' can impossibly be achieved by ignoring, forgetting, shoving-under-the-carpet, any act which anyone could consider criminal, unconstitutional, illegal, corrupt or adverse, made by any party, organisation, group, clan, family or individual(s), may they be/have been 'coloured' yellow, blue, white, red, black ...brown, green, or not, living in Thailand or staying abroad! The painfull list of all those acts must be patiently made up, with no exceptions allowed, and everyone suspected must be, very clearly, able and willing to take up its responsibility, and be brave, or just consequent, enough to accept the possibly dire consequences. And the 'general public' must be informed about it, all, long and wide, into details, no shady corner left unexposed.

It is then, and then only, that some, minor, elements can be, publicly, put on a table of negotiations, for a possible 'compensation of accounts', with all the parties' agreement, to allow a general compromise, including mutual forgiveness, with the aim to enable the Kingdom of Thailand to make its first(!) true steps towards becoming(!) a true Democracy!

Mind you, an, essential, condition, si nequa non, is to be fullfilled though, and it will come hard to all 'parties' to accept it, it is that Justice must be served, not only let to but encouraged to, about all and anything being into its consideration, and, also, all and everything that should be or become of its concern! There is no 'State' without 'Law', and there is no 'Democracy' without 'Justice', for all...

And to the ones allowing themselves to (mis-?)use South Africa as an example, Nelson Mandela included: don't attempt to bend History to fit your twisted theories, what I write hereabove is the way the Great Man wanted 'Reconciliation' to happen, and largely how it did, in his country, Justice too as a matter of fact, so, please, leave the RSA out of your plea for injustice, leave Nelson Mandela out of it, it's bad enough Thaksin dared to compare himself to him (as a Statesman even Mandela had to compromise, and let himself be caught on a picture with a 'Great Democrat' (NOT!) like Robert Mugabe, or a Thaksin Shinawatra, the Thai PM, in fact, are both last not very good friends? But that's a bit off topic...)!

The small number of people that have "owned" Thailand are losing their grip.

It is inevitable that their days are numbered.

How best to make the transition?

Tit for Tat?

When the Reds are in power, after winning elections, they get on with the job of running the country and have no time for vengeance.

When the Yellows are in power, after military and judicial coups, they seek out their foes with a vengeance and have no time to administer the country.

The amnesty bill was an attempt to short-circuit this merry-go-round and bring an end to hostilities.

That the Yellows will lose this war can be seen by all bar the Yellows themselves.

When the Yellows accept the reality of their defeat, there will be an amnesty for all involved and Thailand will be able to move forward to the long term benefit of all her citizens.

As we look back on this period it will be seen for what it is, an unnecessary, costly and deadly waste of time very similar to the last weeks and months of the Japanese effort in WW2.

Let us all hope the Reds don't need to resort to the nuclear option, as the US did with Japan, to make the Yellows finally accept the reality of their defeat.

No the amnesty bill without Thaksin would be ok.. but that one with Taksin included ingited the troubles and caused this coup. Even the red leaders agree the amnesty was a mistake. He was included at the last minute late at night. While the amnesty without Thaksin was agreed upon by others

No thanks to Thaksin his arrogance some poor redshirts are still in jail. He only cares about himself, without him there could be peace.

Without Thaksin the Yellows would just create another demon to justify their continued raping and pillaging of the country at the peoples expense.

or they would just get on with it unchallenged as has been the case for decades

[JOC]

Without Thaksin the Yellows would just create another demon to justify their continued raping and pillaging of the country at the peoples expense.

or they would just get on with it unchallenged as has been the case for decades

Post of the day!!

[tbthailand]

Without Thaksin the Yellows would just create another demon to justify their continued raping and pillaging of the country at the peoples expense.

or they would just get on with it unchallenged as has been the case for decades

Post of the day!!

ah, what history can teach us. Well, not the newly revised history, but you know...

[Stargeezr]

I don't envy the PM and his party, or the rest of the parties, trying to

go forward with governing Thailand.

I am glad to see the cleanup of people being in Thailand illegally and sent

packing back to their own countries. Cleaning up corruption is never easy

as well, but it seems that is still going on.

I think that the people visiting in Thailand and for the expats, life

goes on pretty much as it did in the past.

I hope there is an improvement on visas into Thailand and for visas

for the expats who live in Thailand.

I see that who ever is in power in most countries, is never liked by the opposition

parties, or their followers. I do hope that the people who were made rich and powerful

by the past governments are not so rich or especially powerful as they once were.

It remains to be seen, how Thailand future will be, but the past situation

was not rosy either, I have spoken to my Thai relatives, and they are all happy

to be out from under the Thaksin's rule!

[heybruce]

Without Thaksin the Yellows would just create another demon to justify their continued raping and pillaging of the country at the peoples expense.

or they would just get on with it unchallenged as has been the case for decades

Post of the day!!

ah, what history can teach us. Well, not the newly revised history, but you know...

I've studied the latest, junta-approved history books and there's no mention of anyone named Thaksin. I don't know what you people are going on about!

[billd766]

As of right now there is one, solitary blemish on Thaksin's criminal record and it is the most idiotic and ridiculous conviction that would not stand up in any impartial, independent and just court.

Paying 10% above market value for a piece of land in a public auction.

Your list is worthless, plagiarised ( The Law is an Ass-et. Coups, Law and Corruption Cases ) garbage.

Propaganda that only the most anal and farcical ass-clown could read, believe and then excrete as fact.

(BTW - the list is also 6 years old and the conviction count still stands at 1- this fact in itself shows the worthlessness of the allegations and accusations contained within.)

"Your list is worthless, plagiarized"

Thank you again for highlighting that the PTP dismiss charges as worthless when it does not suit their agenda. You inadvertently defended my argument. Thanks again.

How could anyone argue against such brilliance.

You are truly a rhetorical and dialectical giant, making dwarves of us all.

One query though, the 6 years with no further convictions thing - sort of screams out worthless, does it not?

Actually it screams out that Thaksin is too scared to come back to Thailand and have his days in court.

All he has to do is get on his private jet from wherever he is, fly to Thailand, and surrender to the police, be placed in jail as a fugitive from justice, (no bail to be granted because he did a runner last time) and face all the other charges in court.

Then if he is found innocent as YOU and a few others say then he will be released as an innocent man. On the other hand, if he is found guilty he will stay in jail, lose all his face etc and Thailand will be on the path to peace, harmony and reconciliation.

What could be easier or simpler than that?

[rubl]

"And let's not forget the stuff you failed to comment on....

the unjust and illegal dismissal of 2 sitting Prime Ministers, the unjust and illegal disbanding of the nations largest political party and the unjust and illegal blockading of the national airport."

First point; Samak was dismissed for accepting money working on his cooking show and lying about it, that is illegal here in Thailand and in many other countries, both a legal and just outcome.

Second point: Somchai was dismissed when he lost his MP status after PPP was disbanded for electoral fraud, both a legal and just outcome.

Third point: Forum Rules

2) You will not use ThaiVisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, inaccurate, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law.

Sorry, not quite the way you wrote. Constitution state that you committed an offense if you are employee of the cooking show. He was not. He was the contractor of the show and receive no money. However the court in their idioscrantic predictable manner, expanded the defination of employee and convicted him.

As for Somchai, many until today called that a judiciary coup.

The ThaiVisa clause also meant for you.

Well, if the TV clause is valid, its for all members, including those who should know better than to write "and receive no money".

"In court today, Samak said he was not employed by the television company but received a small fee and the cost of his transportation to the studio.

"I was hired to appear on the programme and got paid from time to time," he said. "I was not an employee of the company, so I did not violate the law. I presented the cooking show and got paid for my acting.

The managing director of the company that produced the programmes, Sakchai Khaewwaneesakul, testified that Samak was paid 80,000 baht (£1,250) for four shows."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/sep/08/thailand

"He told the court today that he refused payment after he was appointed prime minister, according to state-run NBT Television"

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aCjyC3VgdK7A

Edited November 10, 2014 by rubl

[rubl]

"And let's not forget the stuff you failed to comment on....

the unjust and illegal dismissal of 2 sitting Prime Ministers, the unjust and illegal disbanding of the nations largest political party and the unjust and illegal blockading of the national airport."

First point; Samak was dismissed for accepting money working on his cooking show and lying about it, that is illegal here in Thailand and in many other countries, both a legal and just outcome.

Second point: Somchai was dismissed when he lost his MP status after PPP was disbanded for electoral fraud, both a legal and just outcome.

Third point: Forum Rules

2) You will not use ThaiVisa.com to post any material which is knowingly or can be reasonably construed as false, inaccurate, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise in violation of any law.

Sorry, not quite the way you wrote. Constitution state that you committed an offense if you are employee of the cooking show. He was not. He was the contractor of the show and receive no money. However the court in their idioscrantic predictable manner, expanded the defination of employee and convicted him.

As for Somchai, many until today called that a judiciary coup.

The ThaiVisa clause also meant for you.

Well, if the TV clause is valid, its for all members, including those who should know better than to write "and receive no money".

"In court today, Samak said he was not employed by the television company but received a small fee and the cost of his transportation to the studio.

"I was hired to appear on the programme and got paid from time to time," he said. "I was not an employee of the company, so I did not violate the law. I presented the cooking show and got paid for my acting.

The managing director of the company that produced the programmes, Sakchai Khaewwaneesakul, testified that Samak was paid 80,000 baht (£1,250) for four shows."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/sep/08/thailand

"He told the court today that he refused payment after he was appointed prime minister, according to state-run NBT Television"

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aCjyC3VgdK7A

Six years after his well deserved conviction, and there are still Samak defenders still going on about it in an easily-disproved whine of lies.

You used the wrong smiley, it should have been , as its really sad.

[mikemac]

@ Robespierre -

............"Who needs old age when we have google and wiki to expose the garbage in many a yellow post (e.g. the one above)."............

You are very lucky to get away with comments like that, some of us have been suspended for far lesser flames.

And speaking of flames, for the third time now, who are these "yellow peanuts" you are referring to ? Care to name them, of is that not part of your trolling modus operandi ?

[mikemac]

Sorry, not quite the way you wrote. Constitution state that you committed an offense if you are employee of the cooking show. He was not. He was the contractor of the show and receive no money. However the court in their idioscrantic predictable manner, expanded the defination of employee and convicted him.

As for Somchai, many until today called that a judiciary coup.

Quite possibly the saddest post I have read on any forum for many years. Reminds me of someone trying to push a large snowball up the face of Mt Everest, wearing rubber thongs.

[Local Drunk]

Indeed, why should the country forgive those who broke the law just to make those who broke the law happy.

That the law breakers and their supporters are willing to break the law again if they don't get their way should make it even more imperative that justice is done and is seen to be done.

But Hay, isn't that what the amnesty bill was all about, forgive the law breakers to make them happy ?

Didn't work then and wont work again.

Read a little on Nelson Mandela's response to apartheid with South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Council.

Sometimes it's better not to let the future be held hostage by the past.

Let us also not forget who benefits the most from any amnesty agreement. One side would get amnesty for what amounts to a single, dubious real estate conviction whilst the other for three treasonous coups and the slaughter of nearly 100 innocent citizens.

I see... Mandela spent twenty seven years in prison for his beliefs. You can get fifteen easy with just a few strokes of the keyboard. You up for it?

Edited to say: You're all mouth.

Further edited: The namesake of your avatar lost his head, because he decided he a the only person that was right. In the words of Harry Callahan... "Do you fell lucky punk?"

Edited November 10, 2014 by Local Drunk

[Local Drunk]

Indeed, why should the country forgive those who broke the law just to make those who broke the law happy.

That the law breakers and their supporters are willing to break the law again if they don't get their way should make it even more imperative that justice is done and is seen to be done.

But Hay, isn't that what the amnesty bill was all about, forgive the law breakers to make them happy ?

Didn't work then and wont work again.

Read a little on Nelson Mandela's response to apartheid with South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Council.

Sometimes it's better not to let the future be held hostage by the past.

Let us also not forget who benefits the most from any amnesty agreement. One side would get amnesty for what amounts to a single, dubious real estate conviction whilst the other for three treasonous coups and the slaughter of nearly 100 innocent citizens.

I see... Mandela spent twenty seven years in prison for his beliefs. You can get fifteen easy with just a few strokes of the keyboard. You up for it?

Edited to say: You're all mouth.

Further edited: The namesake of your avatar lost his head, because he decided he a the only person that was right. In the words of Harry Callahan... "Do you fell lucky punk?"

"Further edited: The namesake of your avatar lost his head, because he decided he a the only person that was right. In the words of Harry Callahan... "Do you fell lucky punk?""

Even more edited to say that I made a typo. Corrected comment. "The namesake of your avatar lost his head, because he decided he was the only person that was right. In the words of Harry Callahan... "Do you fell lucky punk?"

So then stand on the streets and preach your opinions, and show us your balls! We all have big ones here.

Edited even more: Wanna compare your stones with Mandela's? Go for it!

Edited November 10, 2014 by Local Drunk