http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoG2MOqtfXk

This Number 9 guy on this CCTV footage > look at the way he walks & look at his hair when he briefly turns his face to the side? I have no doubt!

Did David know him? Or was this a sort of "never mind" shake hand about what happened earlier that night? (A fight?). Did David just come back from escorting Hannah to her room? JUST IMHO

This clip 3 hours beforehand means absolutely nothing. IMHO it's just something to fill some time on the news of a topical case. But people much smarter than me will certainly be able to draw conclusions that are far superior to mine.

I don't think it means absolutely nothing, IMO I think it means absolutely everything. Comparing this CCTV person's walk, body, hair, movements with the CCTV of the BKK condo tells me that a certain somebody was on the island! I have no doubt. May I suggest you look at these CCTV footages next to each other?

Edited November 11, 201411 yr by Krenjai

if there is no photo op put together by the RTP for the Thai media before they leave, this may give you an indication of how well their investigation went...

As we know in Thailand everyone likes a photo op...

if they leave quietly with no "fanfare" and no photo's of some RTP poo yai shaking their hands and wishing them well, one could assume the relationship between the UK cops and RTP wasn't that kosher

The fact that they were not invited or attended the DNA sampling of a certain gentlemen in BKK certainly suggests that this visit may not have gone so well,

I mean surely the RTP would have tried to use the British coppers to get some "credibility" around this testing, maybe they were asked and said no...

Thais feel they are never wrong, and if wrong, mai pen rai. They most certainly would not have tried to use the British police to gain some credibility. In the mind of The RTP, they are off the hook and have been for several weeks.

What should be really at issue here, I'm afraid is this.

1. Forget about any "justice" for David and Hannah. As sickening as that is, just put that out of your mind.

2. Free the B2. What really needs to be concentrated on is this: how can the RTP save face and the international public see that the B2 are released? No more innocent blood should be spilled over this. Anyone who can figure out how to free the two Burmese stitched up for this AND at the same time save the precious face of the RTP will have my vote for next humanitarian of the year.

How about the Prosecutor, having fired the "perfect" case back at the RTP so many times already for further "adjustments" saying - "Sorry, you've had your chance(s) - no case to answer" The RTP can then say the case was dismissed due to insufficient evidence, (no loss of face) and the Burmese boys are freed because there would be no case to answer.The Burmese Government is happy that 2 of their people have been freed and therefore presumed innocent, and the British Government is happy because their own police's "observations" could be construed as having had a positive effect on the Prosecutor's decision to throw out the case. Everybody happy, except of course David and Hannah's parents (because the real perpetrators would still be at large, and presumably, still living on/connected with Koh Tao), the Koh Tao "Tourist Board" (who'd want that job?) and the real perpetrators of the crime, who thought that they'd got away with it, and didn't. Do I have your vote?

It probably will be a "diplomatic" report. As the whole investigation was messed up big time there will be no reason to upset Thai authorities.

And the British Police have plenty of bungled investigations, falsified evidence and corruption to deal with back in UK without the purely pointless politically inspired visit to Thailand.

The British police admit corruption and incompetence is endemic in UK, so why they feel justified to travel to other countries to spread it further afield is a mystery.

Police corruption cannot be eliminated’ admits head of special Met unit

Corruption inside law enforcement agencies is impossible to eliminate, according to the man charged with tackling malpractice inside Scotland Yard.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/exclusive-police-corruption-cannot-be-eliminated-admits-head-of-specialmet-unit-following-independent-stories-9070682.html

You are 100% correct. The British cops are far from saints and far from perfect but not many Farangs will admit that.

All that hope and excitement about justice being done....and it will turn out to be a diplomatic whitewash.

Just stop going to koh Tao. Hell, stop going to thailand if you have a choice. Wait for these people to grow up before you hand them Any more money.

It probably will be a "diplomatic" report. As the whole investigation was messed up big time there will be no reason to upset Thai authorities.

And the British Police have plenty of bungled investigations, falsified evidence and corruption to deal with back in UK without the purely pointless politically inspired visit to Thailand.

The British police admit corruption and incompetence is endemic in UK, so why they feel justified to travel to other countries to spread it further afield is a mystery.

Police corruption cannot be eliminated’ admits head of special Met unit

Corruption inside law enforcement agencies is impossible to eliminate, according to the man charged with tackling malpractice inside Scotland Yard.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/exclusive-police-corruption-cannot-be-eliminated-admits-head-of-specialmet-unit-following-independent-stories-9070682.html

You are 100% correct. The British cops are far from saints and far from perfect but not many Farangs will admit that.

Just stop going to koh Tao. Hell, stop going to thailand if you have a choice. Wait for these people to grow up before you hand them Any more money.

You'll be waiting a long, long time.

What findings? They will only have whatever the RTP gives them. There is no crime scene anymore.

it is possible that they could interpret the RTP evidence in a totally different way, and not arrive at the same pack of lies as the RTP... as in: "none of this 'evidence' points to the two Burmese being held in custody." or "The so called evidence was so poorly gathered that it is impossible to draw any useful conclusions whatsoever." or even perhaps, "Based on the photographs, David Miller was stabbed several times with a short knife before he drowned, not bludgeoned with a hoe" - this latter one would help open a few cans of worms, since for some reason, despite being (or because of being) true, it has never come to light.

''As far as possible''..??

Whitewash coming!

Or couldn't complete their investigation,through lack of information!

All that hope and excitement about justice being done....and it will turn out to be a diplomatic whitewash.

I totally agree. It is only that old ploy of being seen to seem to be doing something to placate the masses.

All that hope and excitement about justice being done....and it will turn out to be a diplomatic whitewash.

I totally agree. It is only that old ploy of being seen to seem to be doing something to placate the masses.

New Scotland yard big loose face.

Came here gain nothing and return empty handed as order around by Royal Thai Police the Great.

All that hope and excitement about justice being done....and it will turn out to be a diplomatic whitewash.

I totally agree. It is only that old ploy of being seen to seem to be doing something to placate the masses.

New Scotland yard big loose face.

Came here gain nothing and return empty handed as order around by Royal Thai Police the Great.

Chottee there is no need for sarcasm. It just makes you look small. And I certainly would not call the RTP "the Great" they are far more corrupt and incompetent than the British cops. Jesus you can't even settle a car accident here with out padding the pocket of a slimy smiling poiiceman.

Edited November 11, 201411 yr by rethaier

It probably will be a "diplomatic" report. As the whole investigation was messed up big time there will be no reason to upset Thai authorities.

And the British Police have plenty of bungled investigations, falsified evidence and corruption to deal with back in UK without the purely pointless politically inspired visit to Thailand.

The British police admit corruption and incompetence is endemic in UK, so why they feel justified to travel to other countries to spread it further afield is a mystery.

Police corruption cannot be eliminated admits head of special Met unit

Corruption inside law enforcement agencies is impossible to eliminate, according to the man charged with tackling malpractice inside Scotland Yard.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/exclusive-police-corruption-cannot-be-eliminated-admits-head-of-specialmet-unit-following-independent-stories-9070682.html

You are 100% correct. The British cops are far from saints and far from perfect but not many Farangs will admit that.

I've read a very interesting book titled 'Bent Coppers'.. I forget the author's name. I agree there will always be an element of corruption in the the UK Constabulary, and all other countries. There is one striking difference between UK Police and RTP corruption and that is in the UK the bent coppers don't usually treat their victims and the general public as fools. In Thailand corruption takes place in the open, usually with impunity. Fortunately, in the case of the Koh Tao murders the RTP forgot they weren't dealing with the usual gullible fools, and have stirred up a hornets' nest, all of their own making.

I would imagine that the Yard boys were most certainly not treated as welcome helpers.....in fact, I would think that the RTP would have been ignoring them and attempting to make their stay as unwelcome as possible.......and with the arrogance of some of the top RTP people, that would not have been hard!

The statement that the Yard have gone "as far as possible' possibly indicates that information, evidence etc., has been not forthcoming.

It will be interesting to see what transpires over the next couple of weeks....considering that the 2 suspects are due to be indicted by the end of November.

We know from public statements both from Thailand and from the FCO, what the mandate for the UK police was in Thailand.

I would not expect much of a report at all.

nine No9 clue!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoG2MOqtfXk

This Number 9 guy on this CCTV footage > look at the way he walks & look at his hair when he briefly turns his face to the side? I have no doubt!

Did David know him? Or was this a sort of "never mind" shake hand about what happened earlier that night? (A fight?). Did David just come back from escorting Hannah to her room? JUST IMHO

This clip 3 hours beforehand means absolutely nothing. IMHO it's just something to fill some time on the news of a topical case. But people much smarter than me will certainly be able to draw conclusions that are far superior to mine.

Whitewash again just like the Madeleine McCann case

They just dont want to know the truth ( or they do ) but are protecting people

if there is no photo op put together by the RTP for the Thai media before they leave, this may give you an indication of how well their investigation went...

As we know in Thailand everyone likes a photo op...

if they leave quietly with no "fanfare" and no photo's of some RTP poo yai shaking their hands and wishing them well, one could assume the relationship between the UK cops and RTP wasn't that kosher

The fact that they were not invited or attended the DNA sampling of a certain gentlemen in BKK certainly suggests that this visit may not have gone so well,

I mean surely the RTP would have tried to use the British coppers to get some "credibility" around this testing, maybe they were asked and said no...

Thais feel they are never wrong, and if wrong, mai pen rai. They most certainly would not have tried to use the British police to gain some credibility. In the mind of The RTP, they are off the hook and have been for several weeks.

What should be really at issue here, I'm afraid is this.

1. Forget about any "justice" for David and Hannah. As sickening as that is, just put that out of your mind.

2. Free the B2. What really needs to be concentrated on is this: how can the RTP save face and the international public see that the B2 are released? No more innocent blood should be spilled over this. Anyone who can figure out how to free the two Burmese stitched up for this AND at the same time save the precious face of the RTP will have my vote for next humanitarian of the year.

How about the Prosecutor, having fired the "perfect" case back at the RTP so many times already for further "adjustments" saying - "Sorry, you've had your chance(s) - no case to answer" The RTP can then say the case was dismissed due to insufficient evidence, (no loss of face) and the Burmese boys are freed because there would be no case to answer.The Burmese Government is happy that 2 of their people have been freed and therefore presumed innocent, and the British Government is happy because their own police's "observations" could be construed as having had a positive effect on the Prosecutor's decision to throw out the case. Everybody happy, except of course David and Hannah's parents (because the real perpetrators would still be at large, and presumably, still living on/connected with Koh Tao), the Koh Tao "Tourist Board" (who'd want that job?) and the real perpetrators of the crime, who thought that they'd got away with it, and didn't. Do I have your vote?

Have thought of your scenario as a poss face saver for Thai Authorities but it must be too late. The PM and the good Police Commissioner General already said publicly case perfect/complete and their evidence proved it. No way back from that. Could blame it on a picky prosecutor dept and spin that as Thai justice in action but everyone knows judiciary is also under martial law and can be overruled by said top cop and PM anyway and forced to proceed. Judge could then also be pressured and overruled if required. They have to stand by their perfect case or massively lose further face?

Whatever, family, friends, social media and we hope HMG will continue to seek justice for poor David and Hannah.

Just stop going to koh Tao. Hell, stop going to thailand if you have a choice. Wait for these people to grow up before you hand them Any more money.

You'll be waiting a long, long time.

Precisely.

Folks, this ain't no rocket science. The reason Thais don't learn is they get rewarded for bad behavior, kinda like that annoying dog that gets love and attention every time it jumps up on somebody. I know I ain't solving any problems with a few words here, but the only way reform is taking place in thailand is if the tourist dollars stop flowing. The powers that be will have a meeting or two then, and only then.

Edited November 11, 201411 yr by meand

British Police are not 100%, but if they get caught with their hands in the till, sh^t is going to happen.

Their is no way back in society for a bent English Copper, the term inactive post does not apply in the UK.

Also if a Former Police Officer is jailed for corruption, I would think his jail term will be very uncomfortable.

It probably will be a "diplomatic" report. As the whole investigation was messed up big time there will be no reason to upset Thai authorities.

And the British Police have plenty of bungled investigations, falsified evidence and corruption to deal with back in UK without the purely pointless politically inspired visit to Thailand.

The British police admit corruption and incompetence is endemic in UK, so why they feel justified to travel to other countries to spread it further afield is a mystery.

Police corruption cannot be eliminated’ admits head of special Met unit

Corruption inside law enforcement agencies is impossible to eliminate, according to the man charged with tackling malpractice inside Scotland Yard.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/exclusive-police-corruption-cannot-be-eliminated-admits-head-of-specialmet-unit-following-independent-stories-9070682.html

You are 100% correct. The British cops are far from saints and far from perfect but not many Farangs will admit that.

Here's another good one you won't find anywhere else in the world, and Thais are somehow rewarded for it.....

Anybody been to koh Tao recently? My guesses are that tourist influx is way down, yet prices won't go down. It is the only country I've ever been to that doesn't follow supply and demand laws because we are all such heaps of mindless tourists. The place will be cranking again in no time, 100 percent. Oh well.

Edited November 11, 201411 yr by meand

The whole of Thai society has no accountability, for the ones in brown even less.

I think people are going to be very disappointed in any report.

Unfortunately relations between two countries will take priority over the lives of two tourists.

Probably but one thing to bear in mind is that once the British investigation is done and released then all of the other people involved in the case, I.e. The Wares, McAnna, Hannah and David's friends and families, will all be able to speak to the British press about it freely and the truth will be at least known even if justice is not served.

As far as I know legally until charges are laid in the UK the press and anyone are free to report anything they like about the situation. Those people are staying silent not because they have to by law but because they are willing to. Once charges are laid against a person they have to be careful of their statements to avoid contempt of court charge.

The only hope of justice in this case comes from the "other" families on Koh Tao.

It is alleged there are other families with influence on that island.

I am sure they are seriously angry about what has transpired. If their revenues are down during the up and coming high season, I think it's fair to say there will be action.

If that action involves cash, property or businesses changing hands we would be only guessing. IF the other families are totally peeved , I could see serious reprisels.

Edited November 11, 201411 yr by BoristheBlade

The whole of Thai society has no accountability, for the ones in brown even less.

Does this mean you are unlikely to be returning to Thailand, ever?

I have never left

And what has accountability got to do with my presence?

If you do the crime , serve the time

The whole of Thai society has no accountability, for the ones in brown even less.

Does this mean you are unlikely to be returning to Thailand, ever?

Just stop going to koh Tao. Hell, stop going to thailand if you have a choice. Wait for these people to grow up before you hand them Any more money.

You'll be waiting a long, long time.

Precisely.

Folks, this ain't no rocket science. The reason Thais don't learn is they get rewarded for bad behavior, kinda like that annoying dog that gets love and attention every time it jumps up on somebody. I know I ain't solving any problems with a few words here, but the only way reform is taking place in thailand is if the tourist dollars stop flowing. The powers that be will have a meeting or two then, and only then.

Tourists will not stop coming. The numbers may drop a bit but most people will never hear of most of this because all they read is the sports pages all all they watch is Sports. They, for the most part will be oblivious.

Maybe this is because the whole case is such a cluster that it's virtually impossible for anyone be it British Police or anyone else to make head or tail of the 'evidence' collected by the Thai police.

This is already a much talked about subject but what I still don't get and what I don't believed has been mentioned is how have no witnesses have come forward claiming to have heard a commotion, the screams of the victims on the night of the fatal attack.

Presumably there would have been some noise from the victims. I imagine someone in their position would literally be screaming for their lives, yet it seems no one heard this in the dead of night on a quiet island? No local resident, fellow tourist or no body staying in a bungalow nearby heard a single thing of this horrific and fatal attack and double murder.

Nobody was woken up or heard of the commotion as the two innocent victims were being murdered?

I find that hard to believe.

Good Points.

While we know that even smallish Asian boys can be a bit feisty, it was according to the RTP a 2 on 2 attack, " no noise" not sure if that is realistic.

I have never left

And what has accountability got to do with my presence?

If you do the crime , serve the time

The whole of Thai society has no accountability, for the ones in brown even less.

Does this mean you are unlikely to be returning to Thailand, ever?

Sorry, perhaps I misremembered you talking about not being in the country for the last TVF piss-up and not being back since.

And then:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-suffolk-21027103