Group trips to the bathroom

[phuketsub]

One of the things I always encounter while teaching is that when one student asks "Teacher may I go to the toilet please?", and I consent, there is always another student standing up to accompany him/her.

When I ask why a task of such a personal nature requires a partner, I inevitably get "I need to give him/her support"; ""We're afraid of ghosts!" etc.

When I think about purposely going into a bathroom with another person the only two things that come to mind are: drugs, sex (or both).

Yet these students appear to be completely unaltered when they return.

I am just wondering if anyone else has come up with an elegant strategy for dealing with this or can offer other insight into what might be going on.

[SlyAnimal]

I usually tell them that they can only go one at a time.

This usually results in the student who was "absolutely busting", saying that they don't really need to go after all.

I think most toilet trips are them just trying to get one over on the teacher.

Edit: Also I'm personally of the opinion that periods only last 50 minutes, and it's usually acceptable for the students to take up to 10 minutes between classes, so they have plenty of time to go between periods.

On the other hand, I have them once per week, for a 50 minute period, it usually takes them 10 minutes to get there, so I've only really got 40 minutes per week to teach them, a 5-10 minute toilet break is something I'd prefer they avoid if possible (If they need to go, they need to go, but most of the time, they don't really want to go, and actually just want to chat to their friends or call/txt their bf). So I usually don't let them go in the first 10mins, unless I haven't started the lesson yet, or the last 10mins of class, which leaves them roughly a 20 minute window where I'll say yes.

I also don't allow them to take their bag with them, as otherwise they won't come back. Although if they are within the first/last 10 minutes, and seem genuine (or have finished their work), then I'll let them go, but with a few comments about how they should manage their toilet breaks better.

I also find that they want to take a friend with them to visit the nurse as well. They sometimes get away with this though, as if they say they have period pain, I have no idea about what this entails, and so figure maybe they would legitimately need someone to assist them with walking. Although if they want to go to the nurse for something which isn't obviously apparent (e.g. Period pain or a headache), I ask them to get the nurse to sign a piece of paper for me (Thai is ok) to confirm they are sick and what is wrong with them before I'll mark them as excused rather than absent. This often makes them complain a lot, since they know the nurse won't put that in writing unless they're genuinely sick, and so their plan to skip class (While being marked as excused, rather than absent) has been foiled.

I apply the same requirements to students who are absent, if they were "sick" last week, I expect a note from their parents or doctor before I'll mark them excused rather than absent. Although I know they usually just forge notes from their parents (I've caught them forging them for other classes), so I ask them to include their mother/father's phone number just incase I want to call and verify.

I work on the basis that if the students aren't in class, I can't teach them. So the most important task, is simply to ensure they attend.

(And wow, that was a long "edit" lol)

[brianp0803]

I don't think it's drugs or sex but just an excuse to miss class and talk with their friends.

One at a time works great. If 2 need to go then I remind the 1st person their friend is waiting. Occasionally I will let two girls go if I think they need it.

Have them leave their phone on the desk. They don't need it in the toilet.

If someone wants to go to toilet just before a break time I tell them I can't dismiss class for lunch until they return.

Their culture seems to require a friend takes them to the nurse. But I don't allow trips to the nurse for a scraped knee that they got during lunch time. I don't expect students to get ill at the start of class.

I've started writing the time-left- to- toilet on the board and remind them to tell me when they return.

I've noticed the toilets are empty during break times and full between consecutive classes.

I've thought about having a sign - out and sign-in for toilet breaks.

If a student sees there name repeatedly they might limit asking to go to the toilet.

What is the difference between abscent and excused?

My grade 12 students frequently come late. If the miss my test 1st period but I see they arrive for 3rd period class then no makeup test. They were abscent by choice. I know they try to learn about the test from other students

I have a test next Monday morning. I reminded the habitual late students. They said they will be on time.

[thequietman]

I just let them go. If they don't want to be there, then I don't want then there either. More time and opportunities for me to teach the ones who want to learn. Take their bag, perfect, I know they won't be coming back. Teacher, can I go get water, no problem, if they don't come back that's one less I need to keep quiet while I am trying to teach.

Embrace the chaos. It works for me.

[SlyAnimal]

What is the difference between abscent and excused?

When I do my students grades, I keep the following in mind (regarding attendance)

On time

Late (If they arrive more than 10 minutes after the bell)

Absent (If they're absent without a reason, or if they arrive more than 20 minutes after the bell)

Excused (If they are absent, but with a good reason)

I give students a bonus 10 marks based on the percentage of classes which they were "on time". I usually calculate their grades based on between 50 & 100 marks, so this can be up to 20% of their grade. I calculate this based as [On time / (ontime+late+absent)]

I also calculate whether they pass/fail, based on their percentage attendance. I simply use [ontime+late / (ontime+late+absent)].

When my students are present 80% or more, they pass and receive their grade as per normal.

If they have more than 60%+ (but less than 80%), I give them some extra work to do, if they can complete it before I have to submit my final grades to the school, I'll pass them with their normal grade and their parents will never know they failed, although if they finish it late, then they'll have ม.ส. published as their grade, which their family will see and can only be upgraded to 1.0.

When they are less than 60%, I'll give them ม.ส. and assign them some extra work, when they complete the extra work, they can change their grade to a 1.0.

The amount of work I assign the students, is based on the number of days absent so 1x day marked excused, rather than absent, means less work (even if they were going to fail). An extra day absent can also potentially be quite serious for the student's grade if they're close to the 60% or 80% fringe, however days where they were excused, aren't factored into the equation at all.

I explain my system to the students on the first day of class, so that they're aware I'm tracking attendance and that their grade is dependent on it. Ideally I'd track absenteeism at a 100% and 80%, rather than 80% and 60%, as I believe that every day absent should have an excuse, and that it's part of their personal responsibility to provide their teacher with that excuse (When I was at school, we'd get a detention if we skipped a class without a valid excuse). But I know that the Thai teachers only track at either 60% or 80%, and it's the countryside, so I give them a bit of leeway.

Sometimes if I teach a class/students very few times in a term (e.g. less than 10), I'll modify my rule so that I allow them 2x days absent, just to be fair.

[meand]

Get over it, that is two less students you have to deal with for ten minutes. What exactly is the problem. Honestly teachers think way too much.

[SheungWan]

Get over it, that is two less students you have to deal with for ten minutes. What exactly is the problem. Honestly teachers think way too much.

Maybe OK if only two but once it progresses into a rout the teacher has lost control of the class and all is lost. In particular re language teaching, an absent student tends to lose involvement in the class which has progressed beyond them after they have returned. One has a professional responsibility to manage each and every class and drag them along with you to the best of your ability.

[puchooay]

And of course all of this effort is in vein.

No matter how many times you mark a student absent or excused, how many times you say they can go to the toilet but must come back and they don't so you report it, the figures that you keep will be worth nothing.

The kids will pass their tests and get good grades. If your grade is significantly lower than the others it will be changed.

As one poster said "let them go". If they can't be bothered to study then the classroom will probably be a better place without them.

[SlyAnimal]

And of course all of this effort is in vein.

No matter how many times you mark a student absent or excused, how many times you say they can go to the toilet but must come back and they don't so you report it, the figures that you keep will be worth nothing.

The kids will pass their tests and get good grades. If your grade is significantly lower than the others it will be changed.

As one poster said "let them go". If they can't be bothered to study then the classroom will probably be a better place without them.

In my experience, if I give a student a low or failing grade, the school will back me on my grade (provided it's justified & I give failing students the opportunity to change it to a 1.0, which is still essentially a fail).

Although of course, if a student has a GPA of 3.9 and you give them a 2, the school will be concerned as to why your grade was so much lower. I've seen Thai teachers do this though, whereby some of the star students, have missed out on receiving dean's honours (GPA 3.8+) because they got a 2.0 in a subject they're weak on, like PE.

If I give an entire class low or failing grades, the school will get a bit concerned, because then it's a content or teaching problem, rather than a student problem (Unless the students have a reputation for poor results).

But in general, the school will back me on it.

Students going to the bathroom are a minor consideration in the big picture, but as another poster said, when they miss 10+ minutes of class, they miss out on learning the content, and it can then be difficult for them to catch up. Especially if they miss out on the teaching portion of the lesson (As opposed to the practice or activity sections of the lesson).

Also if the students believe they can just goto the bathroom for a chat with their friends whenever they want, they'll keep doing it, and push the line, because that's what students do. The more they can "pull one over" on the teacher, the less they'll respect you as a teacher (Although may really enjoy your class, as it's a great opportunity to socialise with their friends in the bathroom lol).

If you think back to when you were at school, often the teachers who you respected the most, were the ones who were quite strict, provided they were in control and fair. Some teachers were nutters and you'll never really respect them, and some you enjoyed having and were nice people, but looking back, you didn't really respect them, you just enjoyed their classes because you didn't have to do much work. I would imagine, that we should all be aiming to be respected teachers, rather than just the teachers which students like.

[thequietman]

What is the difference between abscent and excused?

When I do my students grades, I keep the following in mind (regarding attendance)

On time

Late (If they arrive more than 10 minutes after the bell)

Absent (If they're absent without a reason, or if they arrive more than 20 minutes after the bell)

Excused (If they are absent, but with a good reason)

I give students a bonus 10 marks based on the percentage of classes which they were "on time". I usually calculate their grades based on between 50 & 100 marks, so this can be up to 20% of their grade. I calculate this based as [On time / (ontime+late+absent)]

I also calculate whether they pass/fail, based on their percentage attendance. I simply use [ontime+late / (ontime+late+absent)].

When my students are present 80% or more, they pass and receive their grade as per normal.

If they have more than 60%+ (but less than 80%), I give them some extra work to do, if they can complete it before I have to submit my final grades to the school, I'll pass them with their normal grade and their parents will never know they failed, although if they finish it late, then they'll have ม.ส. published as their grade, which their family will see and can only be upgraded to 1.0.

When they are less than 60%, I'll give them ม.ส. and assign them some extra work, when they complete the extra work, they can change their grade to a 1.0.

The amount of work I assign the students, is based on the number of days absent so 1x day marked excused, rather than absent, means less work (even if they were going to fail). An extra day absent can also potentially be quite serious for the student's grade if they're close to the 60% or 80% fringe, however days where they were excused, aren't factored into the equation at all.

I explain my system to the students on the first day of class, so that they're aware I'm tracking attendance and that their grade is dependent on it. Ideally I'd track absenteeism at a 100% and 80%, rather than 80% and 60%, as I believe that every day absent should have an excuse, and that it's part of their personal responsibility to provide their teacher with that excuse (When I was at school, we'd get a detention if we skipped a class without a valid excuse). But I know that the Thai teachers only track at either 60% or 80%, and it's the countryside, so I give them a bit of leeway.

Sometimes if I teach a class/students very few times in a term (e.g. less than 10), I'll modify my rule so that I allow them 2x days absent, just to be fair.

Please tell me you work at an international school for a large salary. If not, then why the hell would you bother with this points system. If you are a government school teacher- then get over yourself. If you are international then I take it all back. Sorry.

[SlyAnimal]

lol, I work at a government school (Well I did, I'm currently taking 1 year off, and will resume in May next year). However I'll take your comment as a compliment towards the dedication I have to my students and their grades

My system is easy (administration wise), as I just enter the numbers into excel which calculates the percentages for me (So just a little data entry + occasionally modifying formulas). The amount of time I spend on it is relatively minimal, and I believe it encourages the students towards better habits.

It also means that I can easily pull up the stats regarding my students from my phone (I keep the excel spreadsheets on my google drive), so it's easy to explain to teachers, students or parents why a particular grade is the way it is, even if they're enquiring about something from the previous year.

[brianp0803]

What is the difference between abscent and excused?

When I do my students grades, I keep the following in mind (regarding attendance)

On time

Late (If they arrive more than 10 minutes after the bell)

Absent (If they're absent without a reason, or if they arrive more than 20 minutes after the bell)

Excused (If they are absent, but with a good reason)

I give students a bonus 10 marks based on the percentage of classes which they were "on time". I usually calculate their grades based on between 50 & 100 marks, so this can be up to 20% of their grade. I calculate this based as [On time / (ontime+late+absent)]

I also calculate whether they pass/fail, based on their percentage attendance. I simply use [ontime+late / (ontime+late+absent)].

When my students are present 80% or more, they pass and receive their grade as per normal.

If they have more than 60%+ (but less than 80%), I give them some extra work to do, if they can complete it before I have to submit my final grades to the school, I'll pass them with their normal grade and their parents will never know they failed, although if they finish it late, then they'll have ม.ส. published as their grade, which their family will see and can only be upgraded to 1.0.

When they are less than 60%, I'll give them ม.ส. and assign them some extra work, when they complete the extra work, they can change their grade to a 1.0.

The amount of work I assign the students, is based on the number of days absent so 1x day marked excused, rather than absent, means less work (even if they were going to fail). An extra day absent can also potentially be quite serious for the student's grade if they're close to the 60% or 80% fringe, however days where they were excused, aren't factored into the equation at all.

I explain my system to the students on the first day of class, so that they're aware I'm tracking attendance and that their grade is dependent on it. Ideally I'd track absenteeism at a 100% and 80%, rather than 80% and 60%, as I believe that every day absent should have an excuse, and that it's part of their personal responsibility to provide their teacher with that excuse (When I was at school, we'd get a detention if we skipped a class without a valid excuse). But I know that the Thai teachers only track at either 60% or 80%, and it's the countryside, so I give them a bit of leeway.

Sometimes if I teach a class/students very few times in a term (e.g. less than 10), I'll modify my rule so that I allow them 2x days absent, just to be fair.

Please tell me you work at an international school for a large salary. If not, then why the hell would you bother with this points system. If you are a government school teacher- then get over yourself. If you are international then I take it all back. Sorry.

Teachers are like students:

Some do the absolute minimum amount of work to pass

Some aim for excellence and work hard

Our students may follow our example.

Agreed some students will be lazy no matter what we do, but some can be motivated to excellence

[thequietman]

What is the difference between abscent and excused?

When I do my students grades, I keep the following in mind (regarding attendance)

On time

Late (If they arrive more than 10 minutes after the bell)

Absent (If they're absent without a reason, or if they arrive more than 20 minutes after the bell)

Excused (If they are absent, but with a good reason)

I give students a bonus 10 marks based on the percentage of classes which they were "on time". I usually calculate their grades based on between 50 & 100 marks, so this can be up to 20% of their grade. I calculate this based as [On time / (ontime+late+absent)]

I also calculate whether they pass/fail, based on their percentage attendance. I simply use [ontime+late / (ontime+late+absent)].

When my students are present 80% or more, they pass and receive their grade as per normal.

If they have more than 60%+ (but less than 80%), I give them some extra work to do, if they can complete it before I have to submit my final grades to the school, I'll pass them with their normal grade and their parents will never know they failed, although if they finish it late, then they'll have ม.ส. published as their grade, which their family will see and can only be upgraded to 1.0.

When they are less than 60%, I'll give them ม.ส. and assign them some extra work, when they complete the extra work, they can change their grade to a 1.0.

The amount of work I assign the students, is based on the number of days absent so 1x day marked excused, rather than absent, means less work (even if they were going to fail). An extra day absent can also potentially be quite serious for the student's grade if they're close to the 60% or 80% fringe, however days where they were excused, aren't factored into the equation at all.

I explain my system to the students on the first day of class, so that they're aware I'm tracking attendance and that their grade is dependent on it. Ideally I'd track absenteeism at a 100% and 80%, rather than 80% and 60%, as I believe that every day absent should have an excuse, and that it's part of their personal responsibility to provide their teacher with that excuse (When I was at school, we'd get a detention if we skipped a class without a valid excuse). But I know that the Thai teachers only track at either 60% or 80%, and it's the countryside, so I give them a bit of leeway.

Sometimes if I teach a class/students very few times in a term (e.g. less than 10), I'll modify my rule so that I allow them 2x days absent, just to be fair.

Please tell me you work at an international school for a large salary. If not, then why the hell would you bother with this points system. If you are a government school teacher- then get over yourself. If you are international then I take it all back. Sorry.

Teachers are like students:

Some do the absolute minimum amount of work to pass

Some aim for excellence and work hard

Our students may follow our example.

Agreed some students will be lazy no matter what we do, but some can be motivated to excellence

The Thai system has raped me of my dignity and excellent work ethic. When once I aimed for excellence now I aim for the door home. When I asked for a curriculum, I was labelled a trouble maker. When I asked for my co-teacher to control so I could teach, I was deemed an outsider. When I gave the students the score they deserved, I was told to get with the programme.

Now I turn up early, look good, do the minimum, say nothing, smile and wave and now I, my friend, am regarded as the dogs dangely bits, the head honcho, the epitome of what a teacher should aspire to be.

Funny that, isn't it !

[phuketsub]

In the past, when I did 'mainstream teaching' I was tougher about it, but now all my students are 'volunteers' (university students) who are there willingly, so I really don't feel in a position to complain too much if they want to go out -- nor do I want to make it an issue that disrupts class time.

But I still find the pair-bonding aspect culturally intriguing; when I need to relieve myself the last thing I want is another person around.

I wonder if any other readers have experienced this type of thing in another cultural setting...

[SlyAnimal]

I can't think of any other settings where I've encountered the same thing.

Although do you guys also find that it's primarily girls who want to go to the toilet with their friend? Or guys as well?

I seem to remember guys wanting to go together once (Mainly as I remember the inappropriate joke I made about it at the time lol), but other than that, I'm pretty sure it was all just girls going together.

[new2here]

My university students - mostly the girls - seen to also "need" to go as a group.

I have stopped asking why, now I say that they can go one at a time, and a 5 minute limit is set.

One of the first times I asked a female student why she needed to "go" now, which I recall was about :10 after class started, and why she didn't manage this before class, the reply was "teacher I have menstruation now"

.... I have since stopped asking ....

Now the fixed answer is "yes, but you must go alone and be back in 5 minutes or less.

[simon43]

When I taught primary grades in Myanmar a few years ago, the Headmistress introduced a 'token' system for going to the toilet during classes. Each class teacher was given a physical token which the child had to carry to/from the toilet. If the HM spotted them without the token, then they would be hung upsidedown outside the classroom window, (slight exaggeration of the punishment).

So only 1 child from each class could go to the toilet at any time during the lesson.

As for the teenage students, they learnt to go before my lesson, because if any student nipped out of the class to go to the toilet during my lesson, I simply locked the door after them and left them at the mercy of the HM...

[Scott]

I had a couple of girls tell me they had to go together because of the ghosts.