My Thai wife just had a meltdown

[captnhoy]

And where did you meet your lovely wife ? did you bother to learn Thai to make the negotiations yourself ? I bet you a million bucks you did not. A lot of Thai wives skim. Mine does,nt. but than again i did,nt meet her in a bar and learned to speak Thai before i arrived on my first trip.

Oh JIM! I want to be just like you when I grow up! You are SO right! It's All his fault!

[ThomasHOL]

I agree that hidden savings are a breach of trust but you must find out if her explanation is legitimate or not before acting on it. Since you have not told us any details on you relationship I can only guess that you live in Australia or New Zealand based on your comment about the efpos card (that I presume are the EFTPOS system that those countries use). So I would assume that she has a job and brings real cash into the relationship, but not as much as you.

From later comments it was clear that you live in Thailand so I would presume that 95% of your combined income comes from you. It does however not change my advice with the bank accounts to much. I would sit down with her and talk about it in a calm fashion. Tell her that you were disappointed when you learned that she had been secretly saving money. Tell her that you have thought about it and decided that in order to stop these kind of misunderstandings in the future you will setup (or has already done so)a separate account for her where you will transfer a fixed amount every month. That amount should cover your daily purchases and whatever is leftover is hers to keep. Then you are committed for whatever you decide on and no problems.

Regarding the money already saved then decide what to do together with her. From what I heard it is 130.000 Baht which Is not a huge sum. So if she say some are for your kid ask how much and if she says 30.000 then deposit them into a account for the kid like some poster suggested. Then there is the shop deposit ex 70.000 baht on a account and agree to deposit a fixed amount from her account every month. I know the money comes from you anyway but this way she will take “ownership” of it. Let her have the last 30.000 for emergencies but tell her that also counts if you have an emergency.

this would be a good way to rebuild your trust and tell her that you care about her. And then make sure that you don’t have to much cash lying around to tempt her.

[CharlieH]

Racist remark removed

[visionchaser45]

Try showing empathy for her concerns. Tell her that you would like to help and ask if you can work together to ensure everything will be taken care of. You might share with her that it is a good idea to have a budget for each goal and concomitant savings plan. Divide what she has been hiding from you proportionately across each goal savings fund to see where you currently stand and how much more you need to save. You might also share with her, or discuss with her your plans to make, any financial provisions upon your eventual demise. Thais are more concerned with helping one another and marrying a farang is always seen as a means to that end. Embrace your role as a partner or end the partnership.

[watcharacters]

OP, I remember the same thing happened to me by my ex-wife that she wasn't Thai.

I had the same reactions as you had from your wife.

My reaction was to change all my bank accounts only to my name, so she couldn't have access.

Then I discovered that money was missing from my wallet.

I put up with her for another 5 years, till the kids grew up, but at the end we got divorced.

That was not the only reason, I got divorced but it contributed a lot in my decision.

If you had bank accounts already set up with her name on them how did you go about setting them up in your name only?

"My reaction was to change all my bank accounts only to my name, so she couldn't have access."

[zydeco]

How much stashed cash are we talking about. Even as a single guy, i have records, receipts of EVERYTHING I PAY. I count my cash when I leave my house and count my cash when i get home and every oter day tally the numbers.

Why? Do you plan on robbing yourself?

[jsflynn603]

Assuming that you've thought this over and feel that the two of you are on solid ground encourage her to give up on saving baht and buy gold, either bars or Thai jewelry which is a great store of value. Thai gold jewelry is 23kt (96.5% gold) and the mark-up is very, very small compared to the USA or most other countries. It can be sold back to vendors for a small % of value. http://www.goldpricethai.com/facts

Then monitor the accounts, and you do the same, in the same value.

Baht is better than Euros or dollars, rubles or even Yuan and the entire world's banking system is shaky to say the least. There are now in excess of 90 trillion (in US$) derivatives floating about. A global banking systemic failure will happen, the only unknown is when it will occur.

Thailand is not particularly responsible and interest accrual on Thai national debt is about $US $5.8 billion dollars/year. http://www.nationaldebtclocks.org/debtclock/thailand

All fiat currency loses value and that trend is almost certain to accelerate.

[sead]

For me its all about trust. It doesnt matter if she owes money to a shark. Or family ask or did domething wrong. Or she saving to buy you a christmas present. What she started is going to make you suspicious to everything. You going to check accounts. Spy on her. Thinking she perhaps plan to leave her. Maybe she have thai boyfriend. All this because you cant trust her now. Lock account and if she having another meltdown ( is actually a thai escape plan) say that you demand to know everything now this same second. If she leaves any detail out and you find out later . Leave her.

[JDGRUEN]

It's very sad to see so much advice based on confrontation. Thais just don't do that in any situation, it's a wholly western attitude. Even sitting down to "have a chat" is confrontational to a Thai - and involves more loss of face. If you love your thai family you will work the marriage the Thai way, or take her to your home country where she will be the foreigner.

And so a guy is just supposed to say --- okay you stole 30,000 - 50,000 baht from me over time and oh mai pen rai -- I don't want you to lose face.... Are you for real ? Thai way -- she gets away with it? Thai way is stealing ?

I strongly doubt had she stole from her father or mother or grandmother it would be looked upon so much in the Thai way -- I bet it would be the highway...

Ahhhh GAWD ... I have heard it all ... Confrontation -- initially with the shock of it - a bit difficult to avoid... but secrets like stealing money again again is Embezzlement in the relationship...

HEAD SHAKING IN AMAZEMENT ...

[canarysun]

Some of you make your lives so complicated-if its a good honest loving relationship then have separate accounts and " everything " split 50 / 50 and if any lady moans at that then it is obviously not worth being together!

Farang Jaidee ( Single )

[jpinx]

It's very sad to see so much advice based on confrontation. Thais just don't do that in any situation, it's a wholly western attitude. Even sitting down to "have a chat" is confrontational to a Thai - and involves more loss of face. If you love your thai family you will work the marriage the Thai way, or take her to your home country where she will be the foreigner.

And so a guy is just supposed to say --- okay you stole 30,000 - 50,000 baht from me over time and oh mai pen rai -- I don't want you to lose face.... Are you for real ? Thai way -- she gets away with it? Thai way is stealing ?

I strongly doubt had she stole from her father or mother or grandmother it would be looked upon so much in the Thai way -- I bet it would be the highway...

Ahhhh GAWD ... I have heard it all ... Confrontation -- initially with the shock of it - a bit difficult to avoid... but secrets like stealing money again again is Embezzlement in the relationship...

HEAD SHAKING IN AMAZEMENT ...

A Thai husband would have said nothing - no confrontation, no conversation. He'd just close the bank accounts, but the marriage would have survived for the sake of the kids.

Edited November 14, 2014 by jpinx

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Assuming that you've thought this over and feel that the two of you are on solid ground encourage her to give up on saving baht and buy gold, either bars or Thai jewelry which is a great store of value. Thai gold jewelry is 23kt (96.5% gold) and the mark-up is very, very small compared to the USA or most other countries. It can be sold back to vendors for a small % of value. http://www.goldpricethai.com/facts

Gold is widely predicted to lose 25-30% in the next year.

[NancyL]

My mother embezzled from my father for years. He insisted they have an "honest, open partnership", yet he was the only one working and refused her pleas to put her on a household allowance. At best he'd give her enough cash for school lunches and minor expenses. Instead he said, just write a check at the grocery, hairdressers, drycleaners (this was back when checks were widely used in the U.S.) He kept meticulous track of all the household expenses. What he didn't realize was that all these businesses would let regular customers write a check for $10 or $20 over the actual amount. He just thought that the household expenses were whatever she recorded on the checkbook register.

Over time, she built up a nice nest-egg and even had a bank savings account in her own name, bought CDs and did other low-risk investing.

Why? My dad had no concept of saving for a rainy day. He thought the good times would last forever. He figured the company pension and social security would be enough for retirement. Man was he wrong. Her not-so-little nest-egg was a very pleasant surprise to him when he lost his job at age 58 in an economic downturn and couldn't find any other employment beyond working at the local Sears store. I had known about it for years and helped her to develop the plan to reveal it to him. It was really a financial intervention -- she was telling him about it on the condition that now she would take over the money management and they would downsize their lifestyle to live within their means and start saving.

She was right, of course.

Perhaps there is something similar going on with the OP. The fact she hasn't spent the money, but instead is hoarding it, tells me she has real concerns for the future. Someday the OP may thank her, the way my Dad thanked my Mom.

Incidentally, I wonder if the hoard of the OP's wife is larger than that of the OP?

Edited November 14, 2014 by NancyL

[Jungle Jim]

Yea it is. Take some responsibility for your actions. If your stupid enough to marry or even date a bar girl (hooker) or massage girl and can,t take just a few moments to learn a language in a country that you plan to spend your life in your just asking for trouble. Ninety nine percent of foreigners just don,t get it. Just to busy either and or in the bars and dealing with very questionable women. Just shows a serious lack of common sense. If you can,t understand that you deserve what you get.

And where did you meet your lovely wife ? did you bother to learn Thai to make the negotiations yourself ? I bet you a million bucks you did not. A lot of Thai wives skim. Mine does,nt. but than again i did,nt meet her in a bar and learned to speak Thai before i arrived on my first trip.

Oh JIM! I want to be just like you when I grow up! You are SO right! It's All his fault!

[JDGRUEN]

It's very sad to see so much advice based on confrontation. Thais just don't do that in any situation, it's a wholly western attitude. Even sitting down to "have a chat" is confrontational to a Thai - and involves more loss of face. If you love your thai family you will work the marriage the Thai way, or take her to your home country where she will be the foreigner.

And so a guy is just supposed to say --- okay you stole 30,000 - 50,000 baht from me over time and oh mai pen rai -- I don't want you to lose face.... Are you for real ? Thai way -- she gets away with it? Thai way is stealing ?

I strongly doubt had she stole from her father or mother or grandmother it would be looked upon so much in the Thai way -- I bet it would be the highway...

Ahhhh GAWD ... I have heard it all ... Confrontation -- initially with the shock of it - a bit difficult to avoid... but secrets like stealing money again again is Embezzlement in the relationship...

HEAD SHAKING IN AMAZEMENT ...

A Thai husband would have said nothing - no confrontation, no conversation. He'd just close the bank accounts, but the marriage would have survived for the sake of the kids.

I have met many responsible Thai women - divorced - the kids stay with Grandma - Mom works... Thai ex-husband wants little to do with them - similar problem as in America among several groups)...

I have also read many posts here on TVF where Western Expat fathers are taking care of the children as single dads and / or the kids stay with the grandmother and the Farang dad provides financing plus time with the kids.

Without trust a marriage does not survive - it exists. When trust is broken - much else is broken... Difficult to make future plans for land purchases in wife's name, or starting a business where the wife would be involved... Many people - many men would choose a separate life - a life with peace of mind...

Imagine growing older with a life insurance policy with the wife as beneficiary - the one who stole from you and hid it away... Never be worth more to any woman dead than you are alive.

[brd]

Let's us stop to dream most of the Thai ladies are part of the conspiracy to milk all the foreigners of their money.

Do read The ideal Man about Jim Thomson life creating the silk industry and suddenly disappearing.

Life is interesting only if well aware of its risks therefore a tight budget, knowing to say no and avoiding useless new friends all smiles

ready to help is better for our health.

as simple as that life is tough as this is never enough.

I keep learning after ten years more and more raising a step son 14 and two on our own boys 6 and 3.

Stupidity is on the agenda to be included.

Think hard and investigate taking your time.

[NancyL]

I wonder how many of the guys on this thread who are saying that without trust a marriage is over have ever cheated on their wife? Hmm...... just a thought.

[MAJIC]

Having read the Topic thouroughly,I can't help thinking the old saying: "Leopards don't change their spots"

For your sake I hope i'm wrong?

[Dean470]

Squirreling away money.. Not really a surprise. Must remember, you may not fully understand the culture.

My own experience; Took 5 years to convince her that 'We are married, what's mine is yours and vice-versa'.

A looong ajustment period.. She never hid money, always tells me what she needs.

Finally all is well. Happily married 45 years.

She is now 73 and an absolute Gem!!! Wouldn't trade her for any young chick..

She is more of a penney pincher than me, shops very carefully looking for the best bargain.

Dean

[Jip99]

I wonder how many of the guys on this thread who are saying that without trust a marriage is over have ever cheated on their wife? Hmm...... just a thought.

I fail to see the relevance to the OP.

Consider how a Thai female (generally) views money vs monogamy.

[Sharp]

Yes It seems the comments reinforce my view our marriage is doomed.

Pity really as I'm otherwise happy with my little family. I suppose given what I know now I'm probably living in a one-sided loveless marriage.

What a shame my wife does not see things from an us/together point of view instead of a how-much-I-get/got point of view.

I wonder if her thinking is so entrenched she will never allow herself to live in a normal relationship and is simply unable to accept a relationship based on mutual trust and understanding instead of viewing life as if disaster awaits around every corner and one-self is all that matters.

Your marriage is as good as any other in Thailand, based on money.

You just need to control her access to your money more carefully.

Then the problem has gone away.

Trust is for suckers.

Spot on that Man... A for effort..

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Without trust a marriage does not survive - it exists. When trust is broken - much else is broken... Difficult to make future plans for land purchases in wife's name, or starting a business where the wife would be involved... Many people - many men would choose a separate life - a life with peace of mind...

Buying land in the wife's name is against the law.

Starting a business for the wife is usually a financial disaster.

Sounds to me like no trust would be a good thing.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Squirreling away money.. Not really a surprise. Must remember, you may not fully understand the culture.

Thai culture,

Steal what you can, while you can.

Good enough for everyone in government, so why not for the wife?

[Mudcrab]

It's very sad to see so much advice based on confrontation. Thais just don't do that in any situation, it's a wholly western attitude. Even sitting down to "have a chat" is confrontational to a Thai - and involves more loss of face. If you love your thai family you will work the marriage the Thai way, or take her to your home country where she will be the foreigner.

And so a guy is just supposed to say --- okay you stole 30,000 - 50,000 baht from me over time and oh mai pen rai -- I don't want you to lose face.... Are you for real ? Thai way -- she gets away with it? Thai way is stealing ?

I strongly doubt had she stole from her father or mother or grandmother it would be looked upon so much in the Thai way -- I bet it would be the highway...

Ahhhh GAWD ... I have heard it all ... Confrontation -- initially with the shock of it - a bit difficult to avoid... but secrets like stealing money again again is Embezzlement in the relationship...

HEAD SHAKING IN AMAZEMENT ...

A Thai husband would have said nothing - no confrontation, no conversation. He'd just close the bank accounts, but the marriage would have survived for the sake of the kids.

How would a Thai husband close an account hidden in socks in the back of a wardrobe?

[skippy]

It's very sad to see so much advice based on confrontation. Thais just don't do that in any situation, it's a wholly western attitude. Even sitting down to "have a chat" is confrontational to a Thai - and involves more loss of face. If you love your thai family you will work the marriage the Thai way, or take her to your home country where she will be the foreigner.

And so a guy is just supposed to say --- okay you stole 30,000 - 50,000 baht from me over time and oh mai pen rai -- I don't want you to lose face.... Are you for real ? Thai way -- she gets away with it? Thai way is stealing ?

I strongly doubt had she stole from her father or mother or grandmother it would be looked upon so much in the Thai way -- I bet it would be the highway...

Ahhhh GAWD ... I have heard it all ... Confrontation -- initially with the shock of it - a bit difficult to avoid... but secrets like stealing money again again is Embezzlement in the relationship...

HEAD SHAKING IN AMAZEMENT ...

A Thai husband would have said nothing - no confrontation, no conversation. He'd just close the bank accounts, but the marriage would have survived for the sake of the kids.

How would a Thai husband close an account hidden in socks in the back of a wardrobe?

Douse himself in gasoline and flick a flint.

[benalibina]

A mental breakdown....No, just primal reaction based on conditioning.

Regardless of where you met her.....you are, being you, not priority nr 2, after the kids.

A relationship is based on trust, integrity and honesty.....the acceptance that both parties can make mistakes. This however is not the same as doing good or bad. Hiding money...stealing...is not a mistake...it is bad.

Posters on here asked thai women if it was bad what your wife did.....NO....some/many replied....This shows the different mindset between cultures. My guess is that those women come from a poor rural background where they see the men drinking and sleeping around thus taking no responsability. The insular way of thinking, conditioning, is difficult to beat.

If you decide to forgive her and continue the relationship, for the sake of your child, which is admirable, it will never be the same anymore. It takes alot of composure and mental strength, with the negative consequence being that your own feelings and desires as a man must be decimized, to make it work again.

Only you can decide if you are able too and if it is worth it.

Good luck.

[gemguy]

As Archie Bunker said: "Mental Pause"

Other than that, you better get ready for more of the same and protect your money and assets.

Cheers

[JDGRUEN]

I wonder how many of the guys on this thread who are saying that without trust a marriage is over have ever cheated on their wife? Hmm...... just a thought.

I assure you that American women would bolt in a N.Y. minute given the same situation as OP... In America and I believe in Thailand both sides cheat equally... it is just that most often the cheating is not found out ...

The OP has proof positive of lying and stealing ... IMO - if he stays with her - he is a fool... And I would say the same thing if the situation were reversed ... Trust is Trust ... breaking the Trust of Marriage financially or sexually most often ruins the marriage - regardless of which side is at fault.

[lcp0761]

Step back and take a deep breath!

Read the following words and contemplate their meaning: "bad news does not get better with time".

Not knowing your overall relationship with your 8-year wife, her age (maybe she is hitting menopause), but I suggest the following as a CYA (cover your ass):

RECOMMENDED ACTION:

* Open a new Thai bank account in your name only. All financial transfers or deposits should be made into this account. Do this ASAP to avoid personnel financial problems.

If your wife regains your trust, you can transfer money from this new account to your old joint account but you need to monitor it closely

* Close all joint credit cards and/or ATM cards.

Convey to your wife that effective immediately you are relieving her from family financial bank access. If needed, create a bank account solely in her name and physically deposit an agreed upon monthly allowance.

The above actions will display to your wife your lack of trust with her and that you mean business.

She will either push back and further dig herself into separating you two or acknowledge the lack of trust and accept your move.

* Be prepared to move out of your existing residence to a temporary residence. Initially only worry about yourself as a single farang in Thailand. Later worry about your child and then your wife. You do no good to your child or wife, if you have problems.

* After you have secured the above new bank account then discuss the wad of family cash and it's retrieval.

NOTE --- trust no one with your finances! Once you die and you will your money/possessions, then no problem. But while your living, trust no one with your finances!

[The Man Who Sold the World]

manly100;

First, I didn't read the seven pages of posts on this topic so what I say has probably been covered.

You say she withdrew and "hid" money at home. You did not say she gave money away or spent it unnecessarily. Perhaps she is afraid of banks? Many people of all nationalities do not trust financial institutions. Did your wife grow up in abject poverty? Flaws conceptions and reality. A successful friend of mine was a clothes horse to the max, when I asked him why he had so many clothes (enough for ten average folk) his response was when he grew up he had few - so he was compensating for his childhood deprivation. Psychological.

You have eight years invested and a daughter produced. Marriage is a life long proposition and children are involved - so you fix the problem and the fix is not abandoning family.

My suggestion is to seek professional medical advice, perhaps it is a psychological problem, insecurity - she has so much now and is afraid to lose it, fear of your death, etc. perhaps a medical solution with medication, or dietary imbalance, etc.

I believe that should be your first step. Medical evaluation.

Good luck and keep us informed.