'Four killed' in Jerusalem synagogue attack

[Seastallion]

From the report,Netanyahu has vowed "to respond with a heavy hand to the deadliest attack in 6 years".

4 dead is the deadliest attack in SIX years?

I have grave fears. Netanyahu killed nearly 2000 in revenge for 3. What's he going to do "heavy handedly" for 4?

Hopefully it is only this weasely politician's rhetoric.

Instead of revenge, Netanyahu, why not look to the future and put an end to this now? Go to the peace table and sincerely find a way. Hamas has shown that no matter what you do, they will retaliate. If you really care about your citizens, don't give them more blood, give them peace. Do it the right way, with Abbas, and Hamas will lose their support in droves...a double bonus for Israel and Palestine.

Netanyahu vows with the best of Thai politicians.

For example, since the recent flare up, he talked mightily about demolishing houses of terrorists etc. - in reality, none were.

The assertion that the IDF operation in Gaza was in revenge of the 3 Israelis murdered, is your interpretation - and quite a

simplistic one, at that. The following equation is, therefore, groundless. Interestingly, you do not seem to be weary of the

Hamas fanning the flames as well, that's somehow acceptable, for some reason.

So discarding the revenge thing (which I don't think was brought up), Netanyahu is Netanyahu. No reason to expect him to

do anything bold. Despite the optimism displayed regarding the success chances of peace negotiations - it is far from being

that simple even if there was a will from both sides (and there isn't). Both Netanyahu and Abbas currently face rough times

as far as domestic politics go, both need to walk a tightrope regarding popular support and political partners.

The notion that Hamas will lose its popularity among Palestinians overnight is a fantasy. For one thing, negotiations will be

lengthy, with a lot of hurdles and setbacks. Overall situation will not necessarily improve quickly, and there will be ample

opportunities for elements on both sides to derail things.

" is your interpretation - and quite a simplistic one, at that. The following equation is, therefore, groundless. ".

Sorry Morch, but that is a fallacious conclusion. Just because it is my opinion and simplistic does not make it untrue, therefore you can not discard "the following equation" based on those two things alone.

The notion that Hamas will lose it's popularity is not fantasy. I prefer optimistic. It is within the realms of possibility, and it is a desired result for everyone. I'll even go so far as to suggest that if everyone aimed for that goal, it would work, and work in everyone's favour....Everyone that is except the extreme right from either side.

Hey Morch, further news is that Netanyahu has vowed to make the terrorists pay. It's looking more likely that my suggestion that an horrific exacting of revenge may indeed be executed by Israel. My grave fears deepen.

[ABCer]

 

This one seems very clear cut.

Nothing mysterious here.

Another terrorist attack specifically targeting innocent Jewish people just for being Jews.

They are happening in Israel.

They are happening in Europe, they are even happening even in the USA, and other parts of the world.

More evidence that the Jewish people really do need the power of a state (Israel) to combat this irrational disease of the Jew haters (thousands of years of this madness already).

Somewhat ironically, it's clear to me that the recent global wave of antisemitism (often thinly disguised as "anti-Zionism" and sometimes not disguised at all) is actually strengthening Zionist feeling among global Jews.

Left wing, moderate, and right right wing, global Jews are massively unified in support of the right of Israel to exist and defend herself against those who openly are working towards her destruction.

Like the PM of Palestine, I condem this violence.

If I were a shallow man. I would point use the arguments used by those that are hell bent on denying freedom to the Palestinians. That the actions of Israel caused this. That the violence of Israel caused this.

I don't believe that to be a justification for these murders any more than I think that 5 deaths justify killing 1000's or denying a people their freedom.

Israel must look at its actions surrounding holy places of non Jews.

It will cause reactions, regardless of how evil or cruel those actions are.

The old liberal canard..

'Don't offend the muslims and they will behave'

No they won't.

...and Israel has shown a lot of respect/restraint regarding the temple mount issue.

Despite being the victors they allow the muslims sole proprietorship of the site.

Where themselves worship at the western wall outside the compound and regularly get pelted with stones from above.

 

All PMs and all Presidents can say what is necessary to say. Words will change nothing.

If those terrorists knew that not only they will die (as martyrs) but their next of kin, their close and distant relatives and friends will die too - the Terrorism would stop.

Their friends, next of kin etc. would stop them or/and report them to authorities.

It works. I have seen it working. It is the only effective way of dealing with Terrorist concept.

But for this we must dispose of 'Political Correctness' which so far is West's weakness and terrorists strength.

BTW this applies not only to Israel, but ANY country, including very Buddhist ones.

Policy called ten for one is producing marvels.

[jdinasia]

ABCer, your answer seems to be the same as Israel's and it is illegal and immoral.

It has also been proven to fail. Decades of collective punishment later and Palestine is still fighting the country occupying them.

[Jingthing]

ABCer, your answer seems to be the same as Israel's and it is illegal and immoral.

It has also been proven to fail. Decades of collective punishment later and Palestine is still fighting the country occupying them.

If only it were that simple that black and white.

But it isn't for so many reasons.

But a big one is this -- the majority of Palestinians do not accept the right of the Jewish state of Israel to even EXIST within any borders and the goal for the majority is to have ALL of historic Palestine ... from the river to the sea.

Creating a fantasy fiction that the Palestinian grievances are only about what happens in Gaza and West Bank ignoring the ACTUAL goals of the Palestinian people might be helpful to promote Palestinian "victimization" propaganda, but it doesn't reflect the truth about the Palestinian intolerance towards the existence of Israel (and their deep and toxic antisemitism taught from an early age).

To look at this conflict sincerely and with truthiness, one must come clean that BOTH sides have narratives to tell and that BOTH peoples have INDIGENOUS CLAIMS to the lands there.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[jdinasia]

Which is why I fully support a 2 state solution. Which you ignore.

[Jingthing]

Which is why I fully support a 2 state solution. Which you ignore.

It's not about you and it's not about me.

I was talking about the Palestinians.

The Palestinians do not want a two state solution!

They want it all.

[jdinasia]

Which is why I fully support a 2 state solution. Which you ignore.

It's not about you and it's not about me.

I was talking about the Palestinians.

The Palestinians do not want a two state solution!

They want it all.

Exactly the same as Israel's position.

[Jingthing]

Which is why I fully support a 2 state solution. Which you ignore.

It's not about you and it's not about me.

I was talking about the Palestinians.

The Palestinians do not want a two state solution!

They want it all.

Exactly the same as Israel's position.

That is incorrect.

There are at least three factors here.

What leaders say.

What leaders do.

How populations poll.

Your implication seems to be a lazy way to attempt to make a VERY COMPLEX SITUATION into a very simple one.

[jdinasia]

Which is why I fully support a 2 state solution. Which you ignore.

It's not about you and it's not about me.

I was talking about the Palestinians.

The Palestinians do not want a two state solution!

They want it all.

Exactly the same as Israel's position.

That is incorrect.

There are at least three factors here.

What leaders say.

What leaders do.

How populations poll.

Your implication seems to be a lazy way to attempt to make a VERY COMPLEX SITUATION into a very simple one.

No lazier than suggesting most Palestinians want any given thing as most Palestinians are refugees outside of the State of Palestine.

[Jingthing]

There is no state of Palestine. Perhaps it would be helpful to keep this discussion in the realm of reality?

[jdinasia]

There is no state of Palestine. Perhaps it would be helpful to keep this discussion in the realm of reality?

LOL

OK..

But your Palestine Demonizing is Bad!!

The UN recognized the State of Palestine as a non-member STATE.

The majority of the countries in the world recognize the State of Palestine.

A few backwards holdouts remain but there are fewer all the time.

[Jingthing]

Forgetting Israel again.

Absolutely the most important player in any solution with the Palestinians.

The one player that really matters in this.

Number two would be the USA.

This is kind of absurd.

Abbas has very low popularity.

The majority of Palestinians don't even want a two state solution.

At best it is seen as a tactical stepping stone before the real goal, the end of Israel.

To get to the core of this, you have to internalize that reality.

[jdinasia]

Forgetting Israel again.

Absolutely the most important player in any solution with the Palestinians.

The one player that really matters in this.

Number two would be the USA.

This is kind of absurd.

Abbas has very low popularity.

The majority of Palestinians don't even want a two state solution.

At best it is seen as a tactical stepping stone before the real goal, the end of Israel.

To get to the core of this, you have to internalize that reality.

I didn't forget anything. You simply ignore the UN and the majority of countries in the world.

Why do you keep demonizing Palestine?

To get to the core of this you must adjust to the reality that Israel doesn't own Palestine or its people.

[Jingthing]

BTW, I don't think I am demonizing anything here. I am stating a truthful position, that until Israel is on board, given Israel's importance in the region, asserting the existence of a Palestinian state as an actual functioning entity is a political FICTION.

[Jay Sata]

Sadly nothing will change. Netanyahu has already threatened disproportionate reprisals meaning the situation will escalate with more deaths on both sides.

Israel achieves nothing in fuelling the circle of violence.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Jay Sata

[jdinasia]

BTW, I don't think I am demonizing anything here. I am stating a truthful position, that until Israel is on board, given Israel's importance in the region, asserting the existence of a Palestinian state as an actual functioning entity is a political FICTION.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-most-israelis-palestinians-support-2-state-solution/

Functional state? Had Israel not ignored so many UN resolutions it might be functional.

It is a recognized state by the UN, and the majority of countries in the world. Ignoring that is costing Israel more support on a daily basis.

The plight of the Palestinian people is more apparent to people in the world daily.

[Jingthing]

Great so we agree it is not a functional state. Ignoring your obligatory and predictable toxic assertions that all the blame is on Israel as unworthy of response.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited November 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[up-country_sinclair]

The Palestinians do not want a two state solution!

They want it all.

That is completely untrue.

You are most certainly entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

The unity government was ready and willing but Israel suddenly moved the goalposts.

[cup-O-coffee]

BTW, I don't think I am demonizing anything here. I am stating a truthful position, that until Israel is on board, given Israel's importance in the region, asserting the existence of a Palestinian state as an actual functioning entity is a political FICTION.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/poll-most-israelis-palestinians-support-2-state-solution/

Functional state? Had Israel not ignored so many UN resolutions it might be functional.

It is a recognized state by the UN, and the majority of countries in the world. Ignoring that is costing Israel more support on a daily basis.

The plight of the Palestinian people is more apparent to people in the world daily.

Chomsky: Well for several years Hamas has been very clear and explicit, repeatedly, that they favor a two state settlement on the international border.

(Hamas) said they would not recognize Israel but they would accept a two state settlement and a prolonged truce, maybe decades, maybe 50 years. Now, that’s not exactly the international consensus but it’s pretty close to it.

On the other hand, the United States and Israel flatly reject it. They reject it in deeds, that’s why they are building all the construction development activities in the West Bank, not only in violation of international laws, US and Israel know that the illegal constructions are designed explicitly to convert the West Bank into what the architect of the policy, Arial Sharon, called bantustan.

Israel takes over what it wants, break up Palestine into unviable fragments. That’s undermining a political settlement. So in deeds, yes of course they are undermining it, but also in words: that goes back to 1976 when the US vetoed the Security Council resolution put forward by the arab states which called for a two state settlement and it goes around until today.

In December, last December, at the meetings of the UN’s General Assembly there were many resolutions passed. One of them was a resolution calling for recognition of the right of self-determination of the Palestinian people. It didn’t call for a state, just the right of self-determination. It passed with 173 to 5.

The 5 were the US, Israel and a few small pacific islands. Of course that can’t be reported in the US. So they are rejecting it even in words, as well as –more significantly- in acts.

On the other hand, Hamas comes pretty close to accepting it.

Now, the demand which Obama repeated on Hamas is that they must meet three conditions:

• they must recognize Israel’s right to exist,
• they must renounce violence
• and they must accept past agreements, and in particular the Road Map.

Well, what about the US and Israel? I mean, obviously they don’t renounce violence, they reject the Road Map – technically they accepted it but Israel immediately entered 14 reservations (which weren’t reported here) which completely eliminated its content, and the US went along.

So the US and Israel completely violate those two conditions, and of course they violate the first, they don’t recognize Palestine. So sure, there’s a lot to criticize about Hamas, but on these matters they seem to be much closer to –not only international opinion- but even to a just settlement than the US and Israel are.

Condolences to the families and loved ones of the victims of these ongoing crimes of racially motivated hatred between peoples.

The rest of the world needs to wake up and be very afraid. The rest of the world needs to be very afraid of two specific countries that appear more and more each year to be acting as one country: ...acting out against the wishes of the world.

Edited November 19, 2014 by cup-O-coffee

[jdinasia]

Great so we agree it is not a functional state. Ignoring your obligatory and predictable toxic assertions that all the blame is on Israel as unworthy of response.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Yes, Israel is to blame for the State of Palestine not being functional.

It is an occupying nation brutalizing an occupied people.

[chuckd]

My guess is ISIS killed considerably more than 6 people yesterday and there has not been one howl of righteous indignation from the usual suspects.

Strange world, indeed.

[up-country_sinclair]

BTW, I don't think I am demonizing anything here. I am stating a truthful position, that until Israel is on board, given Israel's importance in the region, asserting the existence of a Palestinian state as an actual functioning entity is a political FICTION.

Of course you don't think you're "demonizing anything" and think what you are stating "a truthful position". You are giving you opinion based on how you perceive things---that's how this works. Keep that in mind that next 100 times you tell others they are demonizing Israel.

And by the way, Israel's "importance in the region" is decreasing daily. Palestinian statehood is moving forward with or without it. If Israel doesn't start accepting reality soon, it may very well find itself on the scrapheap of history.

[Jay Sata]

This paragraph from the latest edition of the Economist sums up the situation.

Two factors political and religious are bringing tempers to a boil. On the political front, Palestinians have little hope left of a peace agreement that would give them an independent state with East Jerusalem as its capital. For decades Israeli governments neglected Palestinians' neighbourhoods in Jerusalem and limited their ability to build, and instead pushed the expansion of a ring of Jewish neighbourhoods (considered illegal settlements by most countries). Moreover, privately-financed militant groups have been buying houses in the heart of Palestinian neighbourhoods, which have in any case largely been cut off from their hinterland in the West Bank by Israels security barrier. On the religious front, Jewish militants have stepped up their visits to the Haram, often to pray surreptitiously (for instance by pretending to speak into mobile phones). They are backed by radical rabbis who challenge the traditional religious ban on Jews going atop the Temple Mount. The prohibition is based on the fear that ritually impure Jews may defile the Holy of Holies, the most sacred part of the former temple, whose precise whereabouts is unknown. The campaign to demand the right for Jews to pray (or even to enjoy special times with exclusive access) has been joined by prominent Israeli politicians. Palestinians vowing to defend al-Aqsa have clashed repeatedly with the Israeli police, which in turn often has often restricted access to the mosque.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2014/11/economist-explains-13

Edited November 19, 2014 by Jay Sata

[cup-O-coffee]

My guess is ISIS killed considerably more than 6 people yesterday and there has not been one howl of righteous indignation from the usual suspects.

Strange world, indeed.

Is not what you are suggesting an act of being off topic?

Would it not be better to go to those relevant threads and see for yourself if the usual suspects have responded?

Would that not be fair to do so?

[Jingthing]

BTW, I don't think I am demonizing anything here. I am stating a truthful position, that until Israel is on board, given Israel's importance in the region, asserting the existence of a Palestinian state as an actual functioning entity is a political FICTION.

Of course you don't think you're "demonizing anything" and think what you are stating "a truthful position". You are giving you opinion based on how you perceive things---that's how this works. Keep that in mind that next 100 times you tell others they are demonizing Israel.

And by the way, Israel's "importance in the region" is decreasing daily. Palestinian statehood is moving forward with or without it. If Israel doesn't start accepting reality soon, it may very well find itself on the scrapheap of history.

I realize quite well that much of the world (some examples here, don't deny the obvious) would love nothing better than the Palestinians to attain their actual real goal, the end of the state of Israel. It's Israel's job and its supporters, which are a minority in the world but still kicking and that does include the USA, to defend her right to exist and her right to defend herself against any and all forces dedicated to her destruction. Nobody can predict the future. Israel is obviously in peril and has always been in peril. The people of Israel, yes like it or not, overwhelming JEWISH people ethnically and INDIGENOUS to these disputed lands have been in peril for thousands of years in the diaspora as well ... this is not news to Jews. Whether Israel's current position on objecting to the unilateral actions of the very weak and very unpopular Abbas in seeking UNILATERAL (without Israel) recognition of Palestine as a state is helpful or harmful to Israel's future prospects is a legit item of legit debate ... and it certainly is being debated within Israel and among Israel's friends including global Jewry. Personally, I think the both sides need to talk directly or forget about any hope of a peaceful solution.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[Ulysses G.]

Had Israel not ignored so many UN resolutions it might be functional.

Had Israel not ignored so many UN resolutions it would have been driven into the sea decades ago.

[jdinasia]

Oh? Does that include the 45 UNHRC finding? Almost as many as issued to the rest of the world combined? First one only 8 years ago.

[Jingthing]

Oh? Does that include the 45 UNHRC finding? Almost as many as issued to the rest of the world combined? First one only 8 years ago.

That's where you know something is rotten in the state of UN. There is no way that reflects the reality of the world, that tiny Israel is the worse violator in the world by far. Dude, they are biased. Badly. I know it. My aunt's cocker spaniel knows it. Anyone who can't admit the truth of that is being totally disingenuous. Best we bring some more truthiness to this discussion. Anything else is just tedious, a silly empty game, and a waste of all our time.

DUDE, AGAIN, nobody is saying Israel is perfect. Far from it. Thailand isn't perfect. Your country isn't perfect. Some countries are OBVIOUSLY worse. To actually believe the unbalanced UN bias reflects reality and promote it as reflecting objective truth, yes, is quite obviously an irrational demonization of tiny Israel.

Yes I will mention Jews because you can't talk about Israel without the topic of Jews. Jews have been irrationally scapegoated for thousands of years. Yes, many Jews see the wildly unbalanced irrational demonization by the U.N. of their one tiny state as yet another modern manifestation of this ancient history of antisemitic bias. Now anyway, there is at least the power of one state and a powerful friend to fight back against this ancient disease, of scapegoating Jews.

If you don't believe this U.N. especially bad treatment of Israel is Jew related, consider this:

Suppose this historical conflict since 1948 had been between two different ethnic groups of MUSLIMS.

Honestly, please be honest ... do you think the world and the U.N. would be so focused on demonizing one side if that was the case? Duh. Of course they wouldn't. It would be back burner.

Back more to topic ... this terror attack against religious people in Jerusalem, political yes (terrorism always is), but also an expression of the most toxic form of antisemitism.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Jingthing

[cup-O-coffee]

BTW, I don't think I am demonizing anything here. I am stating a truthful position, that until Israel is on board, given Israel's importance in the region, asserting the existence of a Palestinian state as an actual functioning entity is a political FICTION.

Of course you don't think you're "demonizing anything" and think what you are stating "a truthful position". You are giving you opinion based on how you perceive things---that's how this works. Keep that in mind that next 100 times you tell others they are demonizing Israel.

And by the way, Israel's "importance in the region" is decreasing daily. Palestinian statehood is moving forward with or without it. If Israel doesn't start accepting reality soon, it may very well find itself on the scrapheap of history.

I realize quite well that much of the world (some examples here, don't deny the obvious) would love nothing better than the Palestinians to attain their actual real goal, the end of the state of Israel. It's Israel's job and its supporters, which are a minority in the world but still kicking and that does include the USA, to defend her right to exist and her right to defend herself against any and all forces dedicated to her destruction. Nobody can predict the future. Israel is obviously in peril and has always been in peril. The people of Israel, yes like it or not, overwhelming JEWISH people ethnically and INDIGENOUS to these disputed lands have been in peril for thousands of years in the diaspora as well ... this is not news to Jews. Whether Israel's current position on objecting to the unilateral actions of the very weak and very unpopular Abbas in seeking UNILATERAL (without Israel) recognition of Palestine as a state is helpful or harmful to Israel's future prospects is a legit item of legit debate ... and it certainly is being debated within Israel and among Israel's friends including global Jewry. Personally, I think the both sides need to talk directly or forget about any hope of a peaceful solution.

If my son got into a fight every day he attended school, I would definitely look into the situation to determine if he were the cause of the fights, or if he were being bullied.

Regardless, if my son were being expelled from every school I enrolled him in, I would begin to have doubts about my son's behavior.

Moreover, if, in questioning my son about these regrettable circumstances, he were to consistently point blame at everyone else and beg for me to protect him from everyone, and that everyone was trying to kill him, I would at last have to seek some kind of therapy for him, and sadly accept the fact that I am a terrible father.

And believe me, no one loves my son more than I.

Edited November 19, 2014 by cup-O-coffee

[jacky54]

This attack is just another one against Israel and Jews perpetrated by Muslims for over 60 years who cannot accept the state of Israel. Why? because Islam is a divisive and violent religion that calls for the conversion or elimination of all unbelievers. Islam is the greatest threat to peace and stability in the world today.