Thai bureaucracy: Land offices most corrupt, police ranks 2nd worst in survey

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The Prime Minister and leader of May’s coup, Gen Prayuth Chan-Ocha, has put stamping out corruption at the top of his list of things to clean up before the military hands power back to the democratic system.

And he's going to do that how, exactly? 6+ months in and yet not one government official/cop actually punished except for a few being moved to inactive posts. Which is the same ineffectual MO before he took over the country. Poot maak

[ianf]

If u worked at the land office here and u could get away with it would u do it? Me thinks yes.

No it is immoral, corrupt and robbing the people. I suppose it depends how you were brought up or value humanity. Personally I find it disgraceful and people who work for the government and people, should do exactly that, not for their personnel benefit. What ever way you spin it robbing or stealing is wrong, especially when there is no need except for greed.

Does that answer your question?

I have to agree with your excellent post Mr L Gravy! You are one person who is certainly not on the Gravy Train!!!

[RustBucket]

It makes me chuckle when corruption actually has its own set of statistics as though it were an industry in itself.

'The corruption industry has suffered a bit of a slump in Q3 with a growth rate of only 0.3% compared with the same period last year.... But forecasters feel confident that there will be a rebound in Q4 with an overall annual growth of 2.3% on last year.... adding that there have been major gains in Land Office corruption driving future growth.'.

Maybe Thai corruption should be floated on the SET. We can all speculate and invest in it.

If I could have bought up as many shares as I could afford when Prayuth staged the coup and promised to end corruption, I would have picked them up at a steal... Wow... how much they would be worth today not that the market has stabilized and everyone has figured out that the whole thing was a hoax to drive down the price and there had in fact been a load of insider trading.

Edited November 19, 2014 by RustBucket

[Thomas Hannah]

Only thailand would produce something like this,They are giving themselves a pat on the back.And saying to the world.Look,We are not as corrupt this year.

[SoFarAndNear]

Where is they guy (said he lived over 10 years in Thailand) from the Visa Section who mocked me about my appeareance in this country when I said that I was offered to pay bribes of any kinds especially tax free land transfer (or at least much lesser then the regular tax amount). Probabl spend most of his live in his gated community because this is the reality....

Edited November 19, 2014 by SoFarAndNear

[lvr181]

But where is the surprise?

Or am I being cynical?

[flakes]

Why she had to pay 50,000 BHT bribe for get her ID card?

Thats a good one

And did you pay it ?

code of conduct for a petty thief: If there's a way to swindle, then do it, and get as much pay-back as possible. Some animals in nature are opportunistic. They wander through the forest looking for any chance to grab a meal. Similarly, some people think that way.

I had a Thai g.f. She spend many months endeavoring to get a Thai ID. When she finally did, it cost a Bt.50,000 bribe to the bureaucrat. She told me, if she had told the bureaucrat that she had a farang b.f., the bribe would have been 5 times as much. I believe it.

Well soory but I do not...

And why would she have to pay 5 x 50,000 if they know she had a farang bf ? sorry but who on earth pays 250,000 bth for thai ID card..Or even except u pays 50,000 BHT ,While the going price is what 2000 BHT ? mate sorry u can believe what u want but i believe you been duped !

[BlackJack]

just curious

but how do they come up with these figures

its like Monte Python

corruption?

yes

how much?

ok

[Liquorice]

Most know the quote,"Evil exists because good men do nothing."

Which is more evil, the corrupt men that exist in the world, the good men that sit idly by and watch, or the men that make excuses for the corruption that exist in the world.

That is the question, no more no less.

Corruption will flourish until those who allow it too, say 'No'!

[GAZZPA]

Everyone is happy with corruption. The people and the government workers.

A bribe is usually something you pay to save money or get off with a crime. or attain something you would not normally be able to.

For the government workers its extra money.

it is SO open in this country,if somebody somewhere set up sting operations they would make a fortune................. in bribes.

There is no will to change,it works ok for the middle class and up.

I kind of understand what you mean,, we all do something wrong at sometime and I bet on those occasions we would prefer the Thai system where you can pay a little bit and get away with it. But think about the other side,,,

Rich people getting away with murder

No Justice for the poorer people

Wallet dictates outcome not moral right and wrong

25% to 35% of all Government money (that belongs to the people of Thailand) end up getting pilfered in corrupt deals

The infrastructure doesn't improve

Roads are falling to bits

Police dont "POLICE" which means NO ONE IS SAFE!!

I could go on but in my view it doesn't work and the only people who truly benefit are the corrupt at the top or the rich in trouble. In the end everyone else loses.

So, I don't think it does work and they should just get shot of it..

[GAZZPA]

Well there is this survey.

A lot more than what I would expect from a corrupt Canadian government to publish where corruption does not exist because it is hidden rather than open like in Thailand.

If I have to choose (and I have), I would rather live in a country with less hypocrisy.

No such thing as zero corruption, I think everyone will agree with that,,,,,

In a country where corruption is actually punished of course it will be hidden.

Do people walk into a bank they are about to rob and call the police to inform them of their name, address and intentions? By definition people who steal will lie, they have to or they won't be free for very long.

Also, by default hidden means much less for sure. If a society does not accept corruption and stealing then it is much less likely to happen. Example, if Canada were to do a "tablet for child scheme" and in the official published figures the government was paying 100% MORE for the item then market pricing,,, it would be very clear that something was wrong in the tender pricing and they wouldn't get away with it,, in Thailand its exactly what happened, it was published, criticised in the press and social media but it went on anyway.. Someone got very rich, its very wrong and Thailad is FAR worse then Canada or any other Western democracy.

[HUAHIN62]

As I have stated before, to stop corruption you need to start with the civil service. But that will never happen because the traditional elites have a close tie with them and will never act against them. Any elected government are helpless against this network, if they fire someone they are found guilty of all sorts of crimes by the corrupt courts (which is part of the network) and ends up in so much trouble that its not worth their while to really act against corruption. So what happens if a civil servant are found cheating, they get transferred into an inactive post. The tax payers end up paying this persons salary until retirement.

[klauskunkel]

But on average, public schools demanded the biggest individual bribes, at B11,796 a time

They believed educational institutions were the most efficient in tackling corruption

spinning logic and rationale: the surveyed believed that educational institutions were the most efficient in tackling corruption, since they promised to use the money they received from bribes to fight the corruption.

[kevvy]

How about the land department ring me .I have a recorded conversation with an official from the land deparment asking for 30,000 baht and handed me a white envelope

[trainman34014]

''Reform'' means nothing to these people; it's just the latest buzz word to excuse the removal of a Government and replace it with a Junta.

I don't personally care who runs this country because i know for sure that whoever it is hasn't the slightest interest in changing things. The only time change will come is when the place hits ground zero and is completely bankrupt. It has been morally bankrupt for years, so it's only the finances left to go....and it will happen.

[ChiangraiTony]

This is another useless survey. Their figures are unrealistic. Most Thai would not dare to lay claim to paying a bribe for fear of of repurcussions. The same that most would never report a police demanding a bribe.

It must have taken then months just to find people who would talk to them because outside the big cities bribes are demanded for everything.

Untrue; I hear complaints from Thais about the demanded fee to allow their kid into a specific school. The owner of a small restaurant I frequent complains about the bribe he has to pay the coppers to keep things running smoothly. And the bribe he had to pay a few years ago to be allowed to expand his shop with a terrace. The alternative would have been waiting till retirement.

The direct offers for bribes the cops make at traffic checkpoints are known to everybody. They do people a favor as the official ticket would cost more.

This corruption is a cancer in all parts of society. Nearly every Thai must know about it and many must have personal experience with it.

"This corruption is a cancer in all parts of society. Nearly every Thai must know about it and many must have personal experience with it."

You mean like learning at a very young age to ask others for money?

[Travelman868]

This must anger the heads of the RTPF. Only 2nd !

report refers to tea money paid at police stations, no reference to street level tea money, so still #1!

AND Red Bull man not declare. That involve blood money as well

[maidee]

most corrupt

and still, farang cannot even have a house in his name, in this country

he might steal it to his home country, land included

[samii]

Yes and these are kind of "known figures" by everyone and still rough and downgraded estimates. Anyway this is petty cash compared to the big guns and politicians

[harleyclarkey]

Lethal....absolutely lethal, for any foreigner in particular, to lose their property (ies).

Title in Thailand is fragile at best and to add in an utterly corrupt land office is beyond belief.

Strange isn't it? The corrupt who run Thailand now and in the past can buy in, say, the EC with absolute guaranteed title. Yet thay will allow and turn a blind eye to foreigners to be cheated and robbed of thier properties.

Disgusdting

[MexicanFarang]

"I had a Thai g.f. She spend many months endeavoring to get a Thai ID."

Rule #1: Always ask prospective g.f. to see her ID.

Rule #2: Read Thai writing on ID to determine if she's single นางสาว or married นาง.

Rule #3: Realize that Thailand is so corrupt, your prospective g.f. could have gotten her ID card changed from "Mrs" to "Miss", despite still being married, for as little as $1USD:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/668416-my-thai-fiance-has-mrs-title-but-never-married/

Edited November 19, 2014 by MexicanFarang

[icare999]

This is another useless survey. Their figures are unrealistic. Most Thai would not dare to lay claim to paying a bribe for fear of of repurcussions. The same that most would never report a police demanding a bribe.

It must have taken then months just to find people who would talk to them because outside the big cities bribes are demanded for everything.

not true I've lived here over 30 years and you dont need to bribe ask ing as your not breaking the law YOu do however receive slower service if you dont give a tip.

[heybruce]

They missed a really big one. To get a government job most people who do not have connections have to buy their way into a government job...often up to 500,000 baht and that is from personal experience. Government jobs are seen as very high security and lucrative due to all the bribe money rolling in and ridiculous government loans any government employee can get for nothing.

Some Thai friends of mine, recent graduates who were job-hunting at the time, told me they only applied for government jobs that had a rigorous competency exam. They explained that there was no point in applying for desirable jobs that didn't have these qualifying exams because those jobs only went to people who had connections or could pay bribes.

Edited November 19, 2014 by heybruce

[kinmaew]

Would we really want to own land here just look at this it would be a nightmare. Like all things in Thailand I consider it just a fantasy land and better to rent then if there are problems you can just take off at short notice.

[aussieinthailand]

Well to get a job as a teacher in a school depending on position, (lower end) 200,000/400,000 Baht is the going rate, to relocate too a different school is another 200,000/400,000 Baht, as for land officials well the bigger the service the bigger the under the table amount.

Why the hell don't people who know they will be asked for a bribe, have a hidden cam, ( ie pen cam) and after the request has been made take the cam and show them, then ask to see the boss, or just say smile your on utube tonight, the situation changes very bloody fast after that...

every time I'm stopped by traffic police I turn the dash mounted cam screen to them to let them see they are being recorded, No tea money and I'm on my way

[bangon04]

This is another useless survey. Their figures are unrealistic. Most Thai would not dare to lay claim to paying a bribe for fear of of repurcussions. The same that most would never report a police demanding a bribe.

It must have taken then months just to find people who would talk to them because outside the big cities bribes are demanded for everything.

and I would love to see their definition of a "Thai Household"... because without knowing what that means, the bribery figures are meaningless.

A hi-so family paying a bribe for their spoilt kids to get into a prestigious school surely has more bribery potential than a rice farmer with 5 rai and no chanote...

[thaiguzzi]

Can't be arsed to read past the first page, so if it's been mentioned before, apologies. Tip Of The Iceberg.

[spidermike007]

It has recently surfaced, after the brutal murders on Tao, that the entire island is leased by five piglet families, for a few baht per year. So, someone in the land office, way back when did a deal with them, in return for a piece of the action, no doubt. The really astonishing part of the saga, is that those piglet families have been selling the land as freehold title for decades, with the cooperation of the local land office, and as a result, each of those families has amassed a net worth well into 9 figures (in dollars mind you). Some of that land is being sold for 6 million baht per rai, and they do not even own it! False title is being generated for each and every plot sold. Amazing. Is anything being done? No. Is anything being done about the true murderers? No. Above the law is the term that comes to mind.