How safe is 800,000 baht in any/all Thai banks for retirement visa?

[infinity11]

How might it be lost, taken, stolen, etc...
How to best protect?
How is this being tracked by the US govt, irs, facta, etc...
Anyone been penalized for NOT reporting it to the USA govt once a year/tax time?
Any alternatives?
On the up note the money does make better interest here!

And the price and ease of the visa makes it VERY tempting.

But at what cost?

Helpful posts, comments, advice, input, facts, suggestions, etc. please.

Thanks.

Edited November 22, 2014 by infinity11

[gerry123]

i would think far safer than keeping at home or other stash you may have also you would miss out on the yearly interest that a bank would add to your capitol i have not heard of thai imm accepting cash money as proof of funds for retirement extension as it has to be seasoned they may think you are offering a tip

[CharlieH]

WRONG FORUM

MOVED

[Briggsy]

It could be stolen by bank employees but very, very low chance.

Best method of protection is to open an account without an ATM card and with ZERO involvement of any Thai g/f, wife or partner you may have.

If you are American, you will find it more difficult to open an account. Thai banks may have to report details to American agencies if requested. This is onerous for Thai banks so they prefer to avoid U.S. customers.

The best alternative is the 65,000 Baht a month option via affidavit from the U.S. Embassy.

[gerry123]

WRONG FORUM

MOVED

please don't shout

[Cypress Hill]

Probably safer than in a Western bank.

Just ask customers of the Bank of Cyprus. Jacked for up to 80% of their deposits when the troika bailed out the country's banking system.

[Pib]

If you are American, you will find it more difficult to open an account. Thai banks may have to report details to American agencies if requested. This is onerous for Thai banks so they prefer to avoid U.S. customers.

I'm sure you can reference numerous ThaiVisa posts for folks who have been refused Thai bank accounts because they are American--NOT!! Sure, you can find quite a few posts of farangs who had a hard time finding a branch that would open an account for them, but these farangs were of various nationalities and just ran up against the age old problem that some Thai bank branches are not farang friendly....just don't want their business. Fortunately, most branches are not like that.

Oh, by the way, I'm American and since FATCA has been around I've opened a bank account at Bangkok Bank and Krungsri Bank....just a couple extra easy forms to complete. You can find quite a few of such posts from Americans in the variety of Chicken Little threads regarding FATCA.

[Briggsy]

Indeed, Pib, Americans can open bank a/c's, as you say, but there is more paperwork and from what I have read and heard a greater chance of refusal.

I am sorry you will need to explain the "Chicken Little" reference.

[Pib]

OP, you asked some quesitons:

How might it be lost, taken, stolen, etc...?

Ans: Lax personal banking security like letting someone else know/get your debit card PIN. Losing your debit card and the bad guy who finds it goes on a shopping spree. Your debit card getting skimmed. Falling in lust/love and your money getting took through kisses and hugs and ????? Similar type stuff which could occur most anywhere in the world including the U.S. of A. Sure, there is more banking consumer protection laws in the U.S., but they still don't protect you from everything like kisses and hugs....and stupidity (not to imply anything).

How to best protect?

Ans: Maintaining good personal banking security (i.e., keep your PIN to yourself, strong ibanking password, treat your debit card like cash, etc). Try not to allow lust/love to cause a lapse in your personal banking security. You can also open an account with "no debit" card or ibanking which means the only way to get your money is "you" show up a the branch with your passbook and passport. Or open two bank accounts, one with debit card and one without...and keep the account with debit card access at a lower level...recharge it as necessary by ibanking/ATM transfer from your account with no debit card...That's what I do. If you want a debit card with a "chip" for better anti-skimming protection, then get a Bangkok Bank Be1St Smart Debit Card (fancy name for their chipped debit card compared to their regular magnetic strip debit card). Other Thai banks have not came out with chipped debit cards yet...all Thai banks do have chipped credit cards mostly but all Thai banks do not chipped debit cards (only Bangkok Bank). Your deposits in banks is also covered/insured by the Thai govt up to Bt50M right now; possibly going to Bt1M in a couple of years.

How is this being tracked by the US govt, irs, facta, etc...

Ans: All Thai banks now have FATCA agreements with the IRS since around Apr 14, which means each year they may report banking info on your to the IRS like interest earned, amount on deposit, etc. And they are still opening accounts for Americans as before...ignore the Chicken Little posts....it's just Americans have a couple extra easy forms to complete now (and maybe just in one combo form)...one is a questionnaire asking about citizenship and one is a W-9 Tax Payers Identification form to obtain your social security number....a W-9 form you have no doubt fill out quite a few times in your lifetime with your employer, bank, mutual fund, etc.

Anyone been penalized for NOT reporting it to the USA govt once a year/tax time?

Ans: Who knows. Up to you if you want to ignore the law and face the possible consequences. Just file your yearly FBAR report and report the interest earned on your tax return...why be looking over your shoulder all the time for Uncle Sam/that IRS letter showing up in the mail.

Any alternatives?

Ans: if you don't need the Bt800K for day-to-day living expenses, just put it in a Thai bank traditional fixed savings account where you can earn around 3% right now, which is a lot higher than what you can get in a U.S. bank right now. A Thai govt 15% withholding tax is applied to the interest earned, but you can get a refund easy enough from the local tax revenue office...several threads on this subject. Or put the money in a Thai bank "hybrid" fixed saving account that will earn around 2 to 2.5%, no Thai tax withholding unless you go over Bt20K interest earned per year (then just do the refund thing), and you can still access the money a couple times per month without interest penalty like with a traditional fixed account. I have both types of fixed accounts (traditional and hybrid), but I keep the Bt800K in a traditional fixed savings account due to the higher interest earned. I consider it my emergency money like I need big money "now/today" in Thailand and also use it each year for my retirement extension of stay source of income...costs me Bt100 at Bangkok Bank for the income letter...I get it the morning of my extension applicaiton...takes about 10 minutes to get; in my book sure beats the embassy letter route that cost $50/Bt1,600, associated trip to the embassy, etc.

[yimlitnoy]

I never had problems at Citibank as long as the account is kept active.

[gerry123]

OP, you asked some quesitons:

How might it be lost, taken, stolen, etc...?

Ans: Lax personal banking security like letting someone else know/get your debit card PIN. Losing your debit card and the bad guy who finds it goes on a shopping spree. Your debit card getting skimmed. Falling in lust/love and your money getting took through kisses and hugs and ????? Similar type stuff which could occur most anywhere in the world including the U.S. of A. Sure, there is more banking consumer protection laws in the U.S., but they still don't protect you from everything like kisses and hugs....and stupidity (not to imply anything).

How to best protect?

Ans: Maintaining good personal banking security (i.e., keep your PIN to yourself, strong ibanking password, treat your debit card like cash, etc). Try not to allow lust/love to cause a lapse in your personal banking security. You can also open an account with "no debit" card or ibanking which means the only way to get your money is "you" show up a the branch with your passbook and passport. Or open two bank accounts, one with debit card and one without...and keep the account with debit card access at a lower level...recharge it as necessary by ibanking/ATM transfer from your account with no debit card...That's what I do. If you want a debit card with a "chip" for better anti-skimming protection, then get a Bangkok Bank Be1St Smart Debit Card (fancy name for their chipped debit card compared to their regular magnetic strip debit card). Other Thai banks have not came out with chipped debit cards yet...all Thai banks do have chipped credit cards mostly but all Thai banks do not chipped debit cards (only Bangkok Bank). Your deposits in banks is also covered/insured by the Thai govt up to Bt50M right now; possibly going to Bt1M in a couple of years.

How is this being tracked by the US govt, irs, facta, etc...

Ans: All Thai banks now have FATCA agreements with the IRS since around Apr 14, which means each year they may report banking info on your to the IRS like interest earned, amount on deposit, etc. And they are still opening accounts for Americans as before...ignore the Chicken Little posts....it's just Americans have a couple extra easy forms to complete now (and maybe just in one combo form)...one is a questionnaire asking about citizenship and one is a W-9 Tax Payers Identification form to obtain your social security number....a W-9 form you have no doubt fill out quite a few times in your lifetime with your employer, bank, mutual fund, etc.

Anyone been penalized for NOT reporting it to the USA govt once a year/tax time?

Ans: Who knows. Up to you if you want to ignore the law and face the possible consequences. Just file your yearly FBAR report and report the interest earned on your tax return...why be looking over your shoulder all the time for Uncle Sam/that IRS letter showing up in the mail.

Any alternatives?

Ans: if you don't need the Bt800K for day-to-day living expenses, just put it in a Thai bank traditional fixed savings account where you can earn around 3% right now, which is a lot higher than what you can get in a U.S. bank right now. A Thai govt 15% withholding tax is applied to the interest earned, but you can get a refund easy enough from the local tax revenue office...several threads on this subject. Or put the money in a Thai bank "hybrid" fixed saving account that will earn around 2 to 2.5%, no Thai tax withholding unless you go over Bt20K interest earned per year (then just do the refund thing), and you can still access the money a couple times per month without interest penalty like with a traditional fixed account. I have both types of fixed accounts (traditional and hybrid), but I keep the Bt800K in a traditional fixed savings account due to the higher interest earned. I consider it my emergency money like I need big money "now/today" in Thailand and also use it each year for my retirement extension of stay source of income...costs me Bt100 at Bangkok Bank for the income letter...I get it the morning of my extension applicaiton...takes about 10 minutes to get; in my book sure beats the embassy letter route that cost $50/Bt1,600, associated trip to the embassy, etc.

and that in a nut shell is it so there you go good buddy

[Robert24]

Suggest you only open a passbook savings account, no ATM card and no Internet banking. This way you can avoid the ATM and Internet scammers. Otherwise I would regularly check the balance on the account by updating the passbook.

Outside of that, I reckon most banks here are quite safe, i.e. Have better capital ratios than foreign banks. Personally I like Bangkok bank, SCB and Kasikornbank. All 3 have good management and are well run.

[Pib]

Indeed, Pib, Americans can open bank a/c's, as you say, but there is more paperwork and from what I have read and heard a greater chance of refusal.

(1)

I am sorry you will need to explain the "Chicken Little" reference.

Chicken Little reference means the sky is falling, something can't be done no more because of a pending event, doom & gloom, raising unfounded concern, etc.

On my last account opening in Aug or Sep 14 there were indeed two additional forms to complete when they saw my U.S. passport. (1) a questionnaire asking about my nationality, citizenship, etc...basically having me read & check several blocks to determine if I was covered by the U.S. FATCA law and to make me aware of certain things...and then sign it. (2) completion of a W-9 Tax Payers ID form which is nothing more than your name, address, social security number, and your signature. I expect they need your social security number for IRS reporting. Both forms take about 5 minutes combined to complete. Easy.

And from what I see in some posts some bank branches even require non-American farangs to complete the questionnaire...except the person just checks a block saying they are not American/a U.S. Resident Alien/Dual Citizen and then sign the form. I guess the bank wants it to cover their ass...to help show due diligence in compliance with FATCA, like it or not.

[Cypress Hill]

Suggest you only open a passbook savings account, no ATM card and no Internet banking. This way you can avoid the ATM and Internet scammers. Otherwise I would regularly check the balance on the account by updating the passbook.

Yes so basically, take your banking back to the Dark Ages.

Beat ATM skimmers - Only use ATMs in busy locations or inside branches

Beat internet scammers - Don't log in to your account using unfamiliar devices like those in internet cafes

[glassdude007]

The best alternative is the 65,000 Baht a month option via affidavit from the U.S. Embassy.

Anybody out there know what is required to get this affidavit from the U.S. Embassy???

would a letter from my company stating my monthly salary or show my pay stubbs,yearly w2 etc (over 65,000 Baht a month) be ok to show as proof of income?

Then i could use this affidavit for Thai immigration/visa applications???

instead of the 800,000 thb requirement ?

Edited November 22, 2014 by glassdude007

[jimky]

It is just an affidavit nothing is needed to get income letter from US embassy. it is simply them notarizing your statement about having that income.

[Pib]

The best alternative is the 65,000 Baht a month option via affidavit from the U.S. Embassy.

Anybody out there know what is required to get this affidavit from the U.S. Embassy???

would a letter from my company stating my monthly salary or show my pay stubbs,yearly w2 etc (over 65,000 Baht a month) be ok to show as proof of income?

Then i could use this affidavit for Thai immigration/visa applications???

instead of the 800,000 thb requirement ?

The U.S. embassy will not ask for that proof as you are swearing in the affidavit (and subject to the possible penalties of lying on the affidavit) that what you state on the affidavit is true....they are taking your word for it. However, but, immigration may ask for proof in addition to the affidavit....and if the proof doesn't satisfy them then the affidavit worthless. From posts some immigration offices do ask for proof sometimes....and I sure don't know what may trigger them to ask for proof.

[Kerryd]

(I'm not American.)

I put the 800k into a fixed term deposit. The last one I did gave me a rate of 2.4% (per annum) for a 6 month term. (So in reality you end up getting 1.2% of your deposit, less taxes). They also offered a 2.8% rate for an 11 month term. I like the idea of locking the lump sum in there and leaving it, as it makes it easier when it comes "renewal of extension" time, or in the event of an emergency where you need a lot of cash on short notice.

I then lock the bankbook up in my safe which only I have access to. My biggest concern about the safety of my money in Thailand is if they have another "Asian Flu" banking crisis or some other form of economic chaos and the bank collapses. I wouldn't really count on their deposit insurance to come through.

As far as US taxes on the interest is concerned, would that not also depend on whether or not you were out of the US for a certain period of time ? For example, a lot of the contractors over here are not taxed on their earnings, as long as they don't spend more than 35 days per year in the US. If you were in Thailand for more than 330 days/year, would you have to pay (US) taxes at all ?

Also, as the interest on the fixed term deposit gets taxed by the Thais, the US may have a reciprocal tax agreement with them. (For example, if I earned a salary and paid taxes in Thailand, I would have to report my earnings and do my Canadian taxes as well. However, whatever taxes I paid in Thailand would be considered as credits on my Canadian taxes.)

Overall I consider my money to be fairly safe in my Thai accounts. Got to watch for the skimmers/scanners and less than trustworthy "companions". Also have to be VERY careful if you EVER give your "partner" access to your account !

(It's been suggested many times on this forum. Open a separate account with limited funds in it. Preferably in a different bank altogether. You can easily transfer funds from your account in one bank, into an account in another bank, just from an ATM machine, so it would be easy to add more to your "shared" account as need be, while keeping your main account safe.

[super22k]

I have the 800k in SCB for the imm.retirement visa. What worries me is would I be able to make ATM withdrawals if I returned to the UK.Most people say there is no problem because it is a Mastercard but others have had their card rejected.In the UK my "local" SCB bank is 6,000 miles away in Chiang Mai.

[thailiketoo]

I (American) have five bank accounts in Thai banks all over Thailand never a problem fopr 10 years. Some internet posters like to try and scare Americans so post stories that are not true on line. Subscribe to the SMS service that tells you if there is any activity in your account so you are aware of any scams or people withdrawing money; it cost 10 or 20 baht per month.

[new2here]

I'm an American as well.. I've got accounts with 3 Thai banks.. Savings accounts at all 3.. A checking/draft account at one and credit cards issued by two (true credit cards and not ones that require a deposit)

Yes, being an American, thus subject to US law, makes it a touch more complex than perhaps other nationals may experience, but all three banks i use (and for more than 8 years) have been very easy to deal with in insuring I (and the bank) meet required US law.

I segregate my funds so that I have 2 accounts at each bank.

Account #1 is my main account with the larger balance .. Account #2 is the smaller account from which I make daily spending and have ATM cards issued.

I have it set up that I must make an in-person appearance once a month at the bank to authorize a transfer from account 1 and account 2. I transfer what I reasonably expect to spend in that month.

So.. Effectively I have insulated myself from major account issues.. Only the smaller account has ATM access and the main account is wholly unrelated to the smaller #2

I've never had issues with Thai banks from either a compliance standpoint or security basis.

[elliottm]

It's the government's intention to insure all balances up to 25m bt, reduced to 1m bt from 2016:

http://www.dpa.or.th/ewt_news.php?nid=320&filename=index___EN

[darkian]

What about if you wanted to leave Thailand quickly and either transfer or withdraw the whole amount, or if for some reason you got deported?

[Ace of Pop]

If You got Big Money here they wont deport You, they just piss U Off with Stupid Forms they burn after you have left the office.

[vaca azul]

I am European and I had absolutely no problem to open a bank account in Thailand. ALL epmloyees of my Bangkok Bank branch are very friendly and very helpful. They even helped me on a friday with a signature 30 minutes after the public opening hours !!!!!!

And the charges???? In Spain you pay for a "Bankers Draft Cheque" 90 EUR, in Thailand I paid 10 THB.....

In Europe you get CERO intrest for your money in the bank and in Switzerland you have to pay for your money in your account !!!!! This is the western reality!!!

[murphya33]

A post made by a paranoid and for the most part answered by paranoids. Have a nice day.

[thailiketoo]

What about if you wanted to leave Thailand quickly and either transfer or withdraw the whole amount, or if for some reason you got deported?

Keep proof that you deposited the money from outside of Thailand.

[tonray]

If you are American, you will find it more difficult to open an account. Thai banks may have to report details to American agencies if requested. This is onerous for Thai banks so they prefer to avoid U.S. customers.

I'm sure you can reference numerous ThaiVisa posts for folks who have been refused Thai bank accounts because they are American--NOT!! Sure, you can find quite a few posts of farangs who had a hard time finding a branch that would open an account for them, but these farangs were of various nationalities and just ran up against the age old problem that some Thai bank branches are not farang friendly....just don't want their business. Fortunately, most branches are not like that.

Oh, by the way, I'm American and since FATCA has been around I've opened a bank account at Bangkok Bank and Krungsri Bank....just a couple extra easy forms to complete. You can find quite a few of such posts from Americans in the variety of Chicken Little threads regarding FATCA.

Could you offer what banks you found the easiest to work with and what documentation they might require ? Thank you in advance.

[dotpoom]

Talk about a negative approach to life.....if we were to look at life through eyes that looked for all the things that could go wrong from the minute we wake up to the minute we go asleep (and the time in between) .......what a thoroughly miserable existence it would be.

Edited November 22, 2014 by dotpoom

[Pib]

If you are American, you will find it more difficult to open an account. Thai banks may have to report details to American agencies if requested. This is onerous for Thai banks so they prefer to avoid U.S. customers.

I'm sure you can reference numerous ThaiVisa posts for folks who have been refused Thai bank accounts because they are American--NOT!! Sure, you can find quite a few posts of farangs who had a hard time finding a branch that would open an account for them, but these farangs were of various nationalities and just ran up against the age old problem that some Thai bank branches are not farang friendly....just don't want their business. Fortunately, most branches are not like that.

Oh, by the way, I'm American and since FATCA has been around I've opened a bank account at Bangkok Bank and Krungsri Bank....just a couple extra easy forms to complete. You can find quite a few of such posts from Americans in the variety of Chicken Little threads regarding FATCA.

Could you offer what banks you found the easiest to work with and what documentation they might require ? Thank you in advance.

Bangkok Bank, Kaiskorn Bank and Siam Commerical Bank (SCB) seem to be the ones most farangs go with based on posts I read on ThaiVisa, but you still see plenty of farangs going with many other Thai banks. I have accounts with Bangkok Bank and Krungsri Bank...happy with both. My wife who is dual citizen (American and Thai) also has an account with KrungThai Bank...works just fine. Bangkok Bank also has special, lower cost methods for some nationalities to transfer money from their home country bank to a Bangkok Bank account...like for Americans Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank with the ability to accomplish low cost inbound ACH transfers....that can reduce a person's money transfer fees a lot in comparison to most pricey SWIFT fees.

In terms of documentation needed: just your passport and preferably a work permit or long term visa; however, but, plenty will open accounts with just a tourist visa or the 30 day entry stamp you get at the airport. It will vary from branch to branch....most are farang friendly, but some seem to just not want farang business. If one branch turns you down, just walk down the soi and try the next branch.