Koh Tao murders: Burmese legal, forensics teams arrive

[khunPer]

Good to read this.

Without the social media - us - the books would have been closed long ago. Even the desperate and evil efforts of some trolls could not stop the process. The B2 would have been convicted and we would find just a small article that the case was solved and the culprits got their punishment

For the Thai police it must feel like waking up from a sweet dream and finding themselves in sober reality

»Without the social media – us - the books would have been closed long ago.«

Nah, more think of the “real” media – the newspapers abroad and their on-line editions – what you, others, and I think and write here is not (that) important…

[jdinasia]

I just hope the Brits will have something to say soon.

What can they say? The Poms have no legal input (leave them out of this) for the Thai case,If the United Nations were involved this maybe would be different.

What on Earth are you waffling on about? The Poms have no legal input? If the Burmese ask them to give their findings on behalf of the defence they have a perfectly legal right to give share findings, especially considering the Thais invited them..

The UK police were here as observers. They will not interfere with the Thai judicial system.

The judges would have to decide on admissibility of any evidence not processed in Thailand.

[Alwyn]

I just hope the Brits will have something to say soon.

What can they say? The Poms have no legal input (leave them out of this) for the Thai case,If the United Nations were involved this maybe would be different.

What on Earth are you waffling on about? The Poms have no legal input? If the Burmese ask them to give their findings on behalf of the defence they have a perfectly legal right to give share findings, especially considering the Thais invited them..

The UK police were here as observers. They will not interfere with the Thai judicial system.

The judges would have to decide on admissibility of any evidence not processed in Thailand.

You do not know if they will interfere in the Thai judicial system. The fact is, they might already be for all we know.. If they know it's an obvious fit up and the parents of the two murdered kids push the home office to support the Burmese defence, then they might well do so. Then of course, as you say, it's down to the judge to accept any evidence or not just like most other countries.

[Ve37]

I just hope the Brits will have something to say soon.

Did you hear,...the suspects wrote the families of the dead Brits,...I never heard of such a thing,...and very surprised that I have not seen it published in Thailand:

Handwritten in Burmese, and with their names signed in English, it reads: We are really distraught about the loss of your children, and we share your grief. But we want to stress to you that we didnt do anything wrong, and this crime was nothing to do with us.

In order that the truth can be revealed, we want to ask for help from all of you to ensure that we get access to information that the British government has. We would like this information to be shared with our lawyers so the truth can come out. We really want to express our thanks for your help.

[jdinasia]

I just hope the Brits will have something to say soon.

What can they say? The Poms have no legal input (leave them out of this) for the Thai case,If the United Nations were involved this maybe would be different.

What on Earth are you waffling on about? The Poms have no legal input? If the Burmese ask them to give their findings on behalf of the defence they have a perfectly legal right to give share findings, especially considering the Thais invited them..

The UK police were here as observers. They will not interfere with the Thai judicial system.

The judges would have to decide on admissibility of any evidence not processed in Thailand.

You do not know if they will interfere in the Thai judicial system. The fact is, they might already be for all we know.. If they know it's an obvious fit up and the parents of the two murdered kids push the home office to support the Burmese defence, then they might well do so. Then of course, as you say, it's down to the judge to accept any evidence or not just like most other countries.

You may want to check out both the FCO statement and the murder manslaughter and infanticide overseas papers. Then add in the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations, then decide if they would interfere.

[Tropicalevo]

The UK police were here as observers. They will not interfere with the Thai judicial system.

The judges would have to decide on admissibility of any evidence not processed in Thailand.

You do not know if they will interfere in the Thai judicial system. The fact is, they might already be for all we know.. If they know it's an obvious fit up and the parents of the two murdered kids push the home office to support the Burmese defence, then they might well do so. Then of course, as you say, it's down to the judge to accept any evidence or not just like most other countries.

To think that the UK police are able to interefere with the Thai judicial system is a pretty naive viewpoint.

Let me put this another way - would you expect the Thai police to be able to interfere with the UK judicial system?

And for those that think that their postings on TV have been the driving force of these latest developments - well......

Do you really believe that the Burmese MP's and lawyers that are now here here read Thai Visa?

Please give credit where credit is due. It is more likely to be the Thai lawyers, human rights organisations, Burmese NGO's and others that have had the main influence. We are but bystanders in all of this. But, if it makes you all feel better... go ahead. Blow your trumpet.

As others have said - wait and see. It is not a done deal yet.

[off road pat]

I just hope the Brits will have something to say soon.

The Brits will refer to there superiors and the superiors will refer to the politicians....were it will be watered down....according to the usual statements...of British Thai friendship.....based on commercial and business agreements between the two countries........and that's about it......

If you expect something to happen it will have to come from within the Thai Government or Police.....Inner feuds,...or passed promotions.....

[Alwyn]

The UK police were here as observers. They will not interfere with the Thai judicial system.

The judges would have to decide on admissibility of any evidence not processed in Thailand.

You do not know if they will interfere in the Thai judicial system. The fact is, they might already be for all we know.. If they know it's an obvious fit up and the parents of the two murdered kids push the home office to support the Burmese defence, then they might well do so. Then of course, as you say, it's down to the judge to accept any evidence or not just like most other countries.

To think that the UK police are able to interefere with the Thai judicial system is a pretty naive viewpoint.

Let me put this another way - would you expect the Thai police to be able to interfere with the UK judicial system?

And for those that think that their postings on TV have been the driving force of these latest developments - well......

Do you really believe that the Burmese MP's and lawyers that are now here here read Thai Visa?

Please give credit where credit is due. It is more likely to be the Thai lawyers, human rights organisations, Burmese NGO's and others that have had the main influence. We are but bystanders in all of this. But, if it makes you all feel better... go ahead. Blow your trumpet.

As others have said - wait and see. It is not a done deal yet.

Sorry you have my posts confused with somebody else's.

But let me answer your first two sentences as the other 3 don't have anything to do with me. Cameron spoke to so-called PM of Thailand when in Europe, almost immediately there was a small contingent of UK police (whether Scotland Yard or whatever, we won't know there real details) was arriving in Thailand. So although I cannot answer if Thai police would be able to interfere in UK judicial system (I think probably not though) it seems the UK have been invited to give their two bob's worth here regarding this savage rape and murder. Do I believe the UK police will stand up in court and tell the judge how to operate his system here. Do I belive they might share anything they found with the either the defence or the prosecution as appropriate? Yes I do. Let me turn it around a bit. Let's work on the assumption that the RTP did a sterling job and didn't really walk all over the crime scene and allow others to do so. Let's assume the RTP handled the investigation to such a high level of professionalism that the UK police were in awe (as one news report said) and to silence critics the RTP asked them to give evidence to confirm this in a court of law. Would that be allowed or not? It's a rhetorical question and you know the answer so let's leave it there.

[sweatalot]

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Did I miss something?

I have never heard the defense asking to check the sperm that was found inside Hannah Witheridge.

It is a fact, right??? There is sperm .... so why did I not hear the two Burmese men say: "Hey, that can not be our sperm, check it!"

I suppose that the Thai police did not jerk the men off..... Or found some sperm in a towell in the room of the 2 Burmese men.

Is the British police in possession of this sperm

They do not need sperm. The DNA in the sperm is the same as in every part (cell) of the body

Sure, but my point is:

if I were one of the Burmese men (and assuming I am innocent), I would order my lawyer to have the sperm checked so it can be proved that it is sperm and it can be proved it is not my sperm !

ah - you mean the sperm allegedly found in Hannah

[jdinasia]

Good to read this.

Without the social media - us - the books would habe been closed long ago. The B2 would have been convicted and we would find just a small article that the case was solved and the culprits got their punishment

For the Thai police it must feel like waking up from a dream and finding themselves in reality

imho social media has accomplish little in this case.

I am hoping that this goes to trial, so we can get some idea of the actual evidence.

sweatalot is 100% correct.

Social media has done a hell of a lot to keep this case in the public domain and given worldwide attention to the absolute calamity that is the Thai justice system.

Without this spotlight that would not go away it has made the usual Thai cover up and scapegoating very difficult.

This visit would never be happeing if it wasn't for the attention gained from places like this very thread. It is very very hard to commit for the likes of the public prosecutor to send this to court when he knows the whole world is watching him. Without that, this would already be in court on the fudged up so called evidence the police put forward.

The prosecutor does not want this pushed on him from the police because he knows it is based on lies and corruption. I know it, they know it, YOU know it, the Brits know it, the Burmese government knows it and the whole world knows it.

As much as you want to live in blissful ignorance in your huge hole you have dug yourself over the months.... There will be NO trial, because the r is NO evidence.

This is looking more like a political storm in the making. I will bet a pound to a penny that Prayuth doesn't fancy a scrap with Myanmar on this. The Myanmar government seem to be putting their foot down on this issue, now watch the Thais capitulate.

Such amazing worldwide attention that business on the island is up, according to the Guardian

[Muirton]

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I just hope the Brits will have something to say soon.

Did you hear,...the suspects wrote the families of the dead Brits,...I never heard of such a thing,...and very surprised that I have not seen it published in Thailand:

Handwritten in Burmese, and with their names signed in English, it reads: We are really distraught about the loss of your children, and we share your grief. But we want to stress to you that we didnt do anything wrong, and this crime was nothing to do with us.
In order that the truth can be revealed, we want to ask for help from all of you to ensure that we get access to information that the British government has. We would like this information to be shared with our lawyers so the truth can come out. We really want to express our thanks for your help.

Yes, but keep in mind this was done by The Guardian supplying the 2 Burmese with pen and paper.

[Mooner]

I think all parties are playing a waiting game.

See what the RTP come up with regarding the prosecution accepting their case.

Interesting to hear the UK police are not commenting until January after the maximum time the B2 can be held.

If it goes to court maybe all parties will lay their hands on the table

[cookee68]

I just hope the Brits will have something to say soon.

What can they say? The Poms have no legal input (leave them out of this) for the Thai case,If the United Nations were involved this maybe would be different.

The UN has less teeth than a jellyfish.

The Brits are yet to release their report which can not be released until the official inquiry scheduled for January where the whole investigation that has been going on from Britain and Thailand will be heard.

Oh trust me..... Once they have the inquiry this will whip up a hell of a storm if my suspicions are correct. There will be NO cover up from the Brit police. To many media waiting to crawl all over any contradictions etc. If the police believe there has been a cover up, they will certainly say so.

Once that happens, then the pressure is piled onto the politicians to do something about it. That is when requests change to demands.

I agree with you, but these 2 boys will be out on bail now soon, then time will have no boundary,

[cookee68]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I just hope the Brits will have something to say soon.

Did you hear,...the suspects wrote the families of the dead Brits,...I never heard of such a thing,...and very surprised that I have not seen it published in Thailand:

Handwritten in Burmese, and with their names signed in English, it reads: We are really distraught about the loss of your children, and we share your grief. But we want to stress to you that we didnt do anything wrong, and this crime was nothing to do with us.

In order that the truth can be revealed, we want to ask for help from all of you to ensure that we get access to information that the British government has. We would like this information to be shared with our lawyers so the truth can come out. We really want to express our thanks for your help.

Yes, but keep in mind this was done by The Guardian supplying the 2 Burmese with pen and paper.

Yes and this could just as well be a smoke screen to hide the truth, or a trump card knowing that there is little hope that the UK will say anything against them, as the UK like proof, before they speak

[yellowboat]

Good to read this.

Without the social media - us - the books would habe been closed long ago. The B2 would have been convicted and we would find just a small article that the case was solved and the culprits got their punishment

For the Thai police it must feel like waking up from a dream and finding themselves in reality

imho social media has accomplish little in this case.

I am hoping that this goes to trial, so we can get some idea of the actual evidence.

100,000 signatures on a petition is NOT nothing. That is one thing social media did accomplish. This website also helped bring light to those who do wrong.

[jdinasia]

I just hope the Brits will have something to say soon.

Did you hear,...the suspects wrote the families of the dead Brits,...I never heard of such a thing,...and very surprised that I have not seen it published in Thailand:

Handwritten in Burmese, and with their names signed in English, it reads: We are really distraught about the loss of your children, and we share your grief. But we want to stress to you that we didnt do anything wrong, and this crime was nothing to do with us.

In order that the truth can be revealed, we want to ask for help from all of you to ensure that we get access to information that the British government has. We would like this information to be shared with our lawyers so the truth can come out. We really want to express our thanks for your help.

Yes, but keep in mind this was done by The Guardian supplying the 2 Burmese with pen and paper.

Yes and this could just as well be a smoke screen to hide the truth, or a trump card knowing that there is little hope that the UK will say anything against them, as the UK like proof, before they speak

Just marketing by the Guardian. Sells papers /page views

[Ulic]

I am not interested in DNA test results from Thai laboratories, I am interested in the early DNA test results from

Singapore and how those results compare to the two suspects.

[Squeegee]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: what will be revealed most will be by investigatory (TV?) reporters from the UK once the xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

There may or may not be revelations in January when the Brit cops make their statement (if they do), but the real stuff will come out once the official sources are done. Then the British media and social networks will whip up a storm all about the revelations and Thailand will face losing more tourists.

Up to now there was a brief drop in Brits travelling to murder island and then back to business as usual (certainly if we believe jdinasia et al.) and that is because people don't change their lives much over 'questions without answers', however if a Brit undercover TV documentary team get their teeth into anything later it will be all over the press and show the Thais as being far more than just incompetent and immoral.

So the Thais better have a squeaky clean result out of this by February or politically motivated official statements by Thais or Brits are going to be drowned out by further and far more damaging revelations. Brit TV investigatory reporting has a long and distinguished history, unlike Thai police investigations.

Edited November 26, 2014 by Rooo
sentence removed to abide with forum guidelines.

[wilcopops]

Good to read this.

Without the social media - us - the books would habe been closed long ago. The B2 would have been convicted and we would find just a small article that the case was solved and the culprits got their punishment

For the Thai police it must feel like waking up from a dream and finding themselves in reality

imho social media has accomplish little in this case.

I am hoping that this goes to trial, so we can get some idea of the actual evidence.

I'd say you are ignoring the evidence.....the police have complained non-stop about the social media...the FB site received hundreds of thousands of hits, and if you read any of the more intelligent media they are attributing a lot of the problems being brought to light to the way the social media weighed in.

[abitmiffed]

I am not interested in DNA test results from Thai laboratories, I am interested in the early DNA test results from

Singapore and how those results compare to the two suspects.

What results from Singapore would that be then? Did they ever get their hands on anything to test? I thought that was a load of bs? Am i wrong?

[Traveler19491]

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Did I miss something?

I have never heard the defense asking to check the sperm that was found inside Hannah Witheridge.

It is a fact, right??? There is sperm .... so why did I not hear the two Burmese men say: "Hey, that can not be our sperm, check it!"
I suppose that the Thai police did not jerk the men off..... Or found some sperm in a towell in the room of the 2 Burmese men.

Is the British police in possession of this sperm?

Reasonable question (the first one) but little is actually known about the DNA. Which is one reason I want to see a trial.

As for the last question. I doubt that the UK police have it. They probably have the report from Thailand.

There is no variance in DNA in different parts of the body. The DNA in sperm is the same as DNA in the blood, which is the same as DNA from a mouth swab, which is the same as DNA from hair follicles, etc. All the defense team would need from the defendants is a swab from the inside of their mouths to check against what was found in the victim. If the BIB have maintained the DNA properly (a huge assumption), then the forensic team from Myanmar should be able to do their own check.

[Si Thea01]

Good to read this.

Without the social media - us - the books would habe been closed long ago. The B2 would have been convicted and we would find just a small article that the case was solved and the culprits got their punishment

For the Thai police it must feel like waking up from a dream and finding themselves in reality

imho social media has accomplish little in this case.

I am hoping that this goes to trial, so we can get some idea of the actual evidence.

After reading some of your previous posts, not only on this matter but others, I was starting to wonder but I am with you on this post. It just goes to show you are not one eyed and can think logically, something many of the armchair detectives here of TVF cannot do.

[Si Thea01]

Good to read this.

Without the social media - us - the books would habe been closed long ago. The B2 would have been convicted and we would find just a small article that the case was solved and the culprits got their punishment

For the Thai police it must feel like waking up from a dream and finding themselves in reality

imho social media has accomplish little in this case.

I am hoping that this goes to trial, so we can get some idea of the actual evidence.

Your opinion is a minority and you are in a very small group of about 3 people that are out numbered by at least 300,000,00 . What ridiculous statement saying social media has accomplished little you forgot to mention what happened in uk with a petition raised on social media and hundreds of thousands of forum posters condemning this.

When and where did you conduct the survey?

[jdinasia]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: what will be revealed most will be by investigatory (TV?) reporters from the UK once the xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

There may or may not be revelations in January when the Brit cops make their statement (if they do), but the real stuff will come out once the official sources are done. Then the British media and social networks will whip up a storm all about the revelations and Thailand will face losing more tourists.

Up to now there was a brief drop in Brits travelling to murder island and then back to business as usual (certainly if we believe jdinasia et al.) and that is because people don't change their lives much over 'questions without answers', however if a Brit undercover TV documentary team get their teeth into anything later it will be all over the press and show the Thais as being far more than just incompetent and immoral.

So the Thais better have a squeaky clean result out of this by February or politically motivated official statements by Thais or Brits are going to be drowned out by further and far more damaging revelations. Brit TV investigatory reporting has a long and distinguished history, unlike Thai police investigations.

You don't need to believe me regarding tourists on Koh Tao. Read the Guardian article.

[thailandchilli]

Good to read this.

Without the social media - us - the books would habe been closed long ago. The B2 would have been convicted and we would find just a small article that the case was solved and the culprits got their punishment

For the Thai police it must feel like waking up from a dream and finding themselves in reality

imho social media has accomplish little in this case.

I am hoping that this goes to trial, so we can get some idea of the actual evidence.

After reading some of your previous posts, not only on this matter but others, I was starting to wonder but I am with you on this post. It just goes to show you are not one eyed and can think logically, something many of the armchair detectives here of TVF cannot do.

Theres a lot more to this case than meets the eye. A fair trial cannot be guaranteed, wanting to see evidence for your own pleasure is one thing, wanting justice is another.

Please see the below post, I do not claim credit for it, it was written by Bleacher Bum East but he has given permission for it to be copied and gives some good insight about the take it to trial warriors

I have a few questions for everyone who recites the "wait for the trial" mantra.

1. Is it important to you that justice be completely assured and public safety be completely ensured by the arrest and conviction of everyone involved in Hannah's rape and murder and David's murder?

2. Based on all of the evidence available to the public (including but not limited to the police statements shortly after the forensic autopsy that they believed that more than two attackers where involved in the crime, and the chief of forensics statement that they believed David fought with his attackers) . . . Do you believe there is a decent possibility that more than two people were involved in the crimes---or even a slim possibility?

3. If it is important to you that justice be completely assured and public safety be completely ensured, and you believe that there is even a slim chance that at least one perpetrator is still on the loose, given the horrific nature of the crimes, do you believe the police investigators should still be looking intently for one or more other perpetrators?

4. If you do believe the police should be looking for one or more other perpetrators, then if you were the lead investigator, what primary steps would you be taking right now---that to the public's knowledge the police have not yet taken---to find the other perpetrator(s)?

If your answer to question #1 is yes, then I would challenge you to answer directly questions #2, #3 and #4.

Edited November 26, 2014 by thailandchilli

[jdinasia]

Good to read this.

Without the social media - us - the books would habe been closed long ago. The B2 would have been convicted and we would find just a small article that the case was solved and the culprits got their punishment

For the Thai police it must feel like waking up from a dream and finding themselves in reality

imho social media has accomplish little in this case.

I am hoping that this goes to trial, so we can get some idea of the actual evidence.

After reading some of your previous posts, not only on this matter but others, I was starting to wonder but I am with you on this post. It just goes to show you are not one eyed and can think logically, something many of the armchair detectives here of TVF cannot do.

Theres a lot more to this case than meets the eye. A fair trial cannot be guaranteed, wanting to see evidence for your own pleasure is one thing, wanting justice is another.

Please see the below post, I do not claim credit for it, it was written by Bleacher Bum East but he has given permission for it to be copied and gives some good insight about the take it to trial warriors

I have a few questions for everyone who recites the "wait for the trial" mantra.

1. Is it important to you that justice be completely assured and public safety be completely ensured by the arrest and conviction of everyone involved in Hannah's rape and murder and David's murder?

2. Based on all of the evidence available to the public (including but not limited to the police statements shortly after the forensic autopsy that they believed that more than two attackers where involved in the crime, and the chief of forensics statement that they believed David fought with his attackers) . . . Do you believe there is a decent possibility that more than two people were involved in the crimes---or even a slim possibility?

3. If it is important to you that justice be completely assured and public safety be completely ensured, and you believe that there is even a slim chance that at least one perpetrator is still on the loose, given the horrific nature of the crimes, do you believe the police investigators should still be looking intently for one or more other perpetrators?

4. If you do believe the police should be looking for one or more other perpetrators, then if you were the lead investigator, what primary steps would you be taking right now---that to the public's knowledge the police have not yet taken---to find the other perpetrator(s)?

If your answer to question #1 is yes, then I would challenge you to answer directly questions #2, #3 and #4.

Asked and answered before.

The trial reveals the answers to most if not all of the questions.

[thailandchilli]

Jdinasia

Asked and answered before.

The trial reveals the answers to most if not all of the questions.

No, you failed to answer that before. You ignored the questions completely, correct me if I'm wrong

And for your second point, pure speculation

In the view of the UK, Burmese Governments, International Human rights organisations, the victims family who promoted the petition that gained over 100,000 signatures and a huge number of Thai citizens, tends to disagree with you. That is not speculation, it is fact.

[zoza]

I would like to see some support from the German community, especially those in Samui, for their compatriot who was killed in Chaweng a few months ago. It was reported in local news that five young Thai men had been arrested but I believe no Court charges have been laid at this stage. I suspect they may be released in the next few weeks.

from what I've read the five young men were due to be released about a week ago.

even though they had cc tv footage of them at the murder scene.

they also had the weapon that they say was used to kill the German.

they also had a confession (not retracted ) by the jealous ex- boyfriend.

I noticed the British police visited the a c bar and I believe they were interested in

any cc tv footage from the evening prior to the murders,

but most of the cc tv tapes from that night had disappeared

this plus no mention of blood stained clothing from the Burmese boys, the cc tv

that wasn 't disappeared shows one of the b2 wearing a white t shirt on the night

in question. and it looked like he was wearing it at the re-enactment

I made a point of not looking at the horrific pictures of the victims online but even

so I heard about blood spatter ect , how could these two lads clothing not be stained.

before prayruth's boys point out I know most Burmese migrant workers have an

extensive wardrobe due to the fantastic wage paid by your boss's, but not one

speck? and do they carry the keys to all the bars to enable them to remove most

of the cc tv oh yeh apart from the one that they are in?

just to many things that don't ring true and that normally means someone's lying.

[Rooo]

Off topic post & some sort of reply removed.

Please stay on topic & STOP the trolling.Warnings & suspensions will be issued.

[Tropicalevo]

I would like to see some support from the German community, especially those in Samui, for their compatriot who was killed in Chaweng a few months ago. It was reported in local news that five young Thai men had been arrested but I believe no Court charges have been laid at this stage. I suspect they may be released in the next few weeks.

from what I've read the five young men were due to be released about a week ago.

even though they had cc tv footage of them at the murder scene.

they also had the weapon that they say was used to kill the German.

they also had a confession (not retracted ) by the jealous ex- boyfriend.

You are mixing the two threads.

Look at this thread for some facts. (The suspects were not released.)

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/777033-suspects-in-the-murder-of-a-46-year-old-german-man-in-samui-could-walk-free-on-tuesday/page-6

or this one

http://www.samuitimes.com/samui-prosecutor-gives-police-one-month-make-case-suspects-murdered-german/

Edited November 26, 2014 by Tropicalevo