Seeking advice for small business start-up in Pattaya

[Don Mega]

You appear to have all your answers before you even started this thread so what actual advice are you looking for ?

[jpinx]

There's an acid test the OP could do for his scheme. Get the temporary use of a jetski on a trailer behind a pickup and go to the beach, launch it and drive around a bit to "test the new engine". See who turns up taking an interest. Don't fight with them, just ask who you need to pay for permission to do this. Get a friend to stand some distance off taking pics and videoing the whole performance.

There's no doubt the stories about jetski businesses are full of references to scams, protectionism, etc., but the OP can best find out for himself. He's right to doubt the commentators on here, better to know first hand. I've had many businesses around the world and the advice you get on start up is always flaky. Importing aircraft/boats is nothing special, forming companies is nothing special, the special thing is to find the right guys in the right offices who will help you make it happen.

I have 2 SeaDoo GTR215s and a double trailer arriving in 3 weeks at Laem Chabang in a container. I don't quite understand....pay someone to do what? Drive around? There are lots of jet skis available for rent already from private owners at the Jomtiem marina. But they always seem to be sitting as they do no marketing...just a phone number on the side of the machine.

I think some people here misunderstand. I'm not proposing to compete against the hourly rentals. If a couple of guys want to go over to Koh Larn for the day and relax, they can rent from me for the day. No one else currently offers this service so exactly who am I going to upset? I'm not taking anything away from someone as they don't have it now to start with.

Fair enough - if you're not competing with the beach mob that's fine -- my mis-reading your intentions amongst the chaff

If someone's taking a jetski to KohLarn - - will they not need some form of licence?

The basis of your idea seems to be effective marketing of a service which already exists but is pretty much unused. If it was me I'd be using those phone numbers on the sides of the existing rentals and having some conversations with them. You'll get more sense from that than in here

[malt25]

OP. Just for what it's worth I'll add my 2 baht's worth.

I live up country & don't give a rat's arse about your business plan or water craft of any kind.

I am familiar with the industry purely from a tourist's viewpoint as I did spend considerable time in Pattaya prior to moving to the village lifestyle.

I personally know a few falangs who lease or rent bars & massage shops. I have a couple of very good mates living in Patts for over a decade, & communicate on at least a weekly basis.

With these guys we discuss, among other things, current events, news items & generally what's happening in Patts. I read the news papers & try to keep up with current events. I'm kinda on the outside looking in... with no axe to grind, so to speak, about any business venture.

Having said the above, I would seriously question your intelligence, ignorance, arrogance AND business sense. You may have, & probably have been, successful in other ventures BUT, this time me thinks you have "missed the boat" (pun intended)

Any water craft in or around Patts, for sale, hire, rent or whatever, is a NO GO zone. My knowledge of the graft, tea money, protection money, and fatal accidents, come from very close mates nominated in the businesses I mentioned above.

Theoretically, your idea has merit ..... in reality, it's "dead in the water"

But what would I know.

Cheers..... Mal.

Could you give me your explanation why jet skis are controlled with graft, tea money, etc. but other rentals such as cars, scooters and so on seem not to be? What exactly is it about one mechanical device that makes it so different from a rental point of view? Not trying to argue; just get my head around why it is.

I've thought about massage places but I was looking for something a little more interesting and challenging.

I'm not an authority on the subject, but, just from my perspective, have a think about this.

Rental Car outlets. Most are franchised international operations, most probably being run by a Thai company & managed by a Thai. They have well signed & established premises, web sites & have strict franchise rules to abide by, in the main. So, from this one can deduce a very extensive business plan has been undertaken by both the franchisee & franchisor. I doubt very much if either party sought advice on an internet forum, just my guess.

Considering the above, I would assume, oh yes, I know one shouldn't assume... but what the hell, I would assume the franchisee, company, is well connected in many areas. Government officials, high ranking police, wealthy Chinese Thais & possible even the mafia itself. It wouldn't be stretching the imagination too far to suggest the mafia themselves aren't involved in legitimate enterprises such as car rental franchises.

Yes, there's also mom & dad operations, most extremely small who probably pay tea money, protection money, permission to operate money, to whoever demands. Again, a lot of these back yard operations are probably linked in some way to the mafia and or police. Most operate from substandard facilities & could walk away overnight if the need be.

So, you intend starting up a business in direct opposition to a mafia & police controlled operation ? You may have some Thai connections & business partner to front for you, again I assume. Again, I assume you don't & will never have the same connections & protection, currently being enjoyed by the established operators.

The current Jet ski industry, in the main, don't have to worry about much at all. They have basically no overheads, except the jet ski itself. Again, not stretching the imagination too far, all the skis are possibly, probably, stolen. If there's an unsavory issue they need to address, move beach, move location.... take a vacation for a week or two, problem solved.

No matter how successful you've been in the past business wise, I doubt very much if you've operated any business profitable or otherwise,in any location even remotely resembling Pattaya. Legislation, rules & regulations & common sense aren't part of the deal.

I won't waste time going on about rental bikes & scooters. Kinda the same but different. If it's a small, low profit operation & not attracting to much attention, mafia & police only require a bit of tea money.

Like I said initially, I'm no authority, but if a simple country bloke who spent the morning raking & bagging rice in the bloody hot sun can figure out why your plan is doomed, I'm sure a successful business entrepreneur like yourself should be able to work it out.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

Cheers..... Mal.

[Gsxrnz]

Hey OP, Here's a suggestion for you.

biplane2.jpg

You'll have every gogo bar in Pattaya knocking on your door to have you buzz the beach towing their name behind you. You can add value by having one or two appropriately (read inappropriately) dressed gogo dancers walking on the wings as an optional extra for the advertiser, but they'd have to do more than the Pattaya two-step to give real value.

Maybe you could mount a pole on the upper wing and have the girls do some pole dancing. You'd have to install 3 tons of sound gear to knock out all the best Pitbull sounds though.

Jeez, you could even add some pontoons and compete with the jetski boys on the beach by offering joyrides for all the Indian sub-continent punters that tend to hire the jetskis. But watch out because the jetski mafia will find a way to claim that you banged into one of their machines and demand 50k baht to repair the alleged scratch.

And I can see the BIB in collusion with the Jetski Mafia confiscating your plane and throwing it on the back of their Vigo as I type this!!

We look forward to seeing you in the Pattaya sky very soon.

And seriously, the sign towing isn't a totally stupid idea. You already have the asset so why not make use of it. No doubt there would be a ream of permits and licences to be obtained and tea money to be paid, but that would be the same if you simply opened a hot dog stand anyway. I have no idea of the overheads for the plane, but do yourself a budget and cashflow forecast and see how it pans out.

You mean banner towing? Like aerial advertising? You don't use a new, expensive plane for that....you use a worn out Cessna that's worth $20K for that purpose. And there's very little money in it....that's why you don't see big companies pursuing it. Its always some 2 man op that closes after a season or two. But thanks for the suggestion.....

Yes, you can make money in aviation in Thailand but I'm looking for something new. I'm tired of the 14 hour days, fixing planes all night and flying all day. 10 years was enough.

You're thinking inside the square. As you already own the plane (I assume for personal pleasure), the direct cost of capital ownership can be discounted from the costing model and only need to include depreciation, maintenance, fuel, hangar and administrative costs etc. Your break even point would be much less because the business doesn't have to pay for the purchase of the plane either at current value or purchase value.

Anyway, I'm sure you could find a decent motorcycle taxi rider and buy him a pilots licence to fly it for you. And his BIL Somchai is bound to be a pretty decent bush mechanic and could be relied upon to service it to a very high degree - that means he'll remember to put all the spark plugs back in most of the time.

On the other hand, renting jetskis to two-week millionaires will probably make you richer.

[meatboy]

bit disapionted that the op has not replyed to my nonsence posts.

There's a good reason for that. You're old, fat, bald, spend your life glued to a barstool, found your wife in a go-go bar and have never owned a business.

Jeez, I just hope you haven't got a daughter.

if your refering to me?you got 3 out of 7 right. so i would give you an IQ the same as the op.

[wooloomooloo]

bit disapionted that the op has not replyed to my nonsence posts.

There's a good reason for that. You're old, fat, bald, spend your life glued to a barstool, found your wife in a go-go bar and have never owned a business.

Jeez, I just hope you haven't got a daughter.

if your refering to me?you got 3 out of 7 right. so i would give you an IQ the same as the op.

It was supposed to be ironic. Never mind.

[mike324]

There's an acid test the OP could do for his scheme. Get the temporary use of a jetski on a trailer behind a pickup and go to the beach, launch it and drive around a bit to "test the new engine". See who turns up taking an interest. Don't fight with them, just ask who you need to pay for permission to do this. Get a friend to stand some distance off taking pics and videoing the whole performance.

There's no doubt the stories about jetski businesses are full of references to scams, protectionism, etc., but the OP can best find out for himself. He's right to doubt the commentators on here, better to know first hand. I've had many businesses around the world and the advice you get on start up is always flaky. Importing aircraft/boats is nothing special, forming companies is nothing special, the special thing is to find the right guys in the right offices who will help you make it happen.

I have 2 SeaDoo GTR215s and a double trailer arriving in 3 weeks at Laem Chabang in a container. I don't quite understand....pay someone to do what? Drive around? There are lots of jet skis available for rent already from private owners at the Jomtiem marina. But they always seem to be sitting as they do no marketing...just a phone number on the side of the machine.

I think some people here misunderstand. I'm not proposing to compete against the hourly rentals. If a couple of guys want to go over to Koh Larn for the day and relax, they can rent from me for the day. No one else currently offers this service so exactly who am I going to upset? I'm not taking anything away from someone as they don't have it now to start with.

You are a foreigner so that makes you an easy target. Your competition are mostly businesses own by the mafia, that makes you a target. Many motorcycle rentals in prime locations are owned by the mafia or pay off the mafia to operate, cars not so much as tourist don't rent cars.

If you are a small operation not operating from the beach, you should not have much trouble with the locals. But if you plan on launching your stuff at the beach, there will be confrontations with the locals. Police gets a cut from all mafia activities, so they are not much help. Just look at the jet ski scam and how police sides with jet ski operators all the time.

If you want to co-exist and operate your business at prime locations, then be prepare to talk nice and pay off the police and mafias who are in charge, it will be a pretty penny.. If you are just trying to make side money by launching your craft from a private marina, there shouldn't be any problems.

You may get away with launching it a couple times from the beaches, but once the locals catch on, they will confront you and make trouble to scare you away. Once you are a target you will always be a target by the mafia, police. You will need to provide operating license, insurance, etc even if you have it, they will always ask something from you and make up stuff. If you piss them off, your water crafts will be vandalized.

Your business plan sounds good actually, but your competition is not so good. Importing etc etc is not a problem, just pay the customs off and you will be on your way. If you have some influence in the area and are connected, you will be ok, but assuming that you don't, the odds are against you.

When you mention jometien marina, I'm assuming its Ocean Marina, how many tourists goes there? None! therefore if you plan on operating from there, you will need a lot of advertisement and probably provide free pick up and drop off service.

How many tourist do you think will be able to navigate a jet ski to koh larn??? If they rent for a whole day, don't you think they want to relax by the beach as well? once your water craft hit the beaches, the locals operators will find out if thats competition.

I would not trust a tourist to drive a jet ski in the open sea dodging speed boats and other water crafts if they have no knowledge of how the sea traffic works here. They have a very high risk of getting into accidents, what if their water craft dies in the middle of the sea, who are they going to call? you will not be there to watch over. Locals who operate at the beach always have their eyes on their rentals in case it ventures too far. Where will you be?

Take the advice or leave it, sooner or later you will run into the problem I said, which is what most forum members are talking about.

Successful stories are mostly among the locals and the folks who pays the police/locals off monthly, if you are not prepare to do so, avoid it at all costs.

Edited November 27, 2014 by mike324

[CharlieH]

Given the attitude displayed, and the bickering going on here, its time this was CLOSED