Abhisit to CDC: New charter should not whitewash wrongdoers

[webfact]

Abhisit to CDC: New charter should not whitewash wrongdoers

BANGKOK, 28 November 2014 (NNT) – Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva has given his suggestions to the Constitution Drafting Committee (CDC), reminding the agency that reconciliation should not mean granting pardon to everybody.

Mr Abhisit today arrived at the Parliament building for his scheduled discussion with the CDC on the charter drafting process. The Democrat leader reportedly stressed the need for the new constitution to adhere to democratic principles as much as the previous versions did. It should respect people’s rights and allow for the decentralization of power while enabling the public to scrutinize the government.

In the House of Representatives, Mr Abhisit viewed that more power should be given to the opposition so as to strengthen the system of checks and balances. For example, he said the chairmen of all House committees should be opposition members. Moreover, the House Speaker and Deputy Speakers should come from different parties, depending on the number of votes their respective parties receive during the poll. As for senators, he suggested that they all come from election and have more power to stop a bill from being passed into law.

The Democrat leader also claimed that independent organizations had in the past been intervened and were slow in their handling of cases. Therefore, he proposed that they be required to set a clear timeframe for each case and that a special body be set up to monitor against interventions.

Lastly, Mr Abhisit reiterated that the new charter should not allow those guilty of serious crimes, such as assaults on others and corruption, to start over with a clean slate. Should any pardon be granted, he insisted that the new constitution should be specific about details.


-- NNT 2014-11-28

[Bluespunk]

"Lastly, Mr Abhisit reiterated that the new charter should not allow those guilty of serious crimes, such as assaults on others and corruption, to start over with a clean slate."

Too right.

No pardons.

The guilty go to gaol, from all parties.

[NongKhaiKid]

Abhisit claimed that independent organisations had in the past intervened and were slow in their handling of cases.

He knows as well as anyone that it's almost impossible to find any individual or organisation here that is truly independent.

Will a special body to monitor the activities of independent organisations be anymore ' independent ' ?

TIT where in public life there's so much patronage, loyalties and people being. ' owed ' in every possible definition of the word.

[greenchair]

Glad to see he supports an elected senate

[JOC]

Glad to see he supports an elected senate

Probably hoping for a Hong Kong model, where to pool of senators only consists of the "good people"!!

[NongKhaiKid]

Glad to see he supports an elected senate

Probably hoping for a Hong Kong model, where to pool of senators only consists of the "good people"!!

The HK Legislative Council has members of all political colours but the problem is that of choosing the SAR's Chief Executive which is not an open contest as Beijing has to approve the candidates and they only permit their ' own ' people.

[RustBucket]

Very simplistic bunch of proposals.

To whip this place into shape it is going to need about 500 different articles just to keep a control of politicians, civil servants and public officials.

Oh..... and bespoke new prison (capacity 10,000) to throw them into for ANY breech of the law, funded by the assets of all those who end up there..... Minimum stay.... 5 years without a pardon.

[webfact]

Abhisit calls for more power to the people
The Nation


Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva, right, greets National Reform Council member Alongkorn Ponlaboot at Parliament yesterday. Alongkorn on Wednesday resigned as deputy party leader after he was made a member of the National Reform Council.

BANGKOK: -- Democrat Party leader Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday called on charter drafters to ensure the new constitution gives more power to the people and reduces the government's authority.

He also called for the drafters to create a constitution that boosts the efficiency in scrutinising politicians in power via parliamentary opposition, media and independent organisations in order to prevent corruption and political interference.

"It is important for there to be mechanisms or measures" to prevent political abuses, he said, adding that these issues were to blame for the many street protests in the past.

He also voiced his opposition against certain constitution drafters' move to push for politicians to get amnesty for the sake of reconciliation. He said amnesty should not be granted to people who were involved in corruption or serious crimes like murder.

He also warned that granting such amnesty would lead to a new round of conflicts, adding that the dispute that prompted the May 22 coup resulted from a bill backed by the previous elected government to grant blanket amnesty to all who were involved in previous political conflicts.

The Constitution Drafting Committee's subcommittee in charge of preparing the framework for drafting has proposed that the new charter include a clause that grants amnesty to protesters and public officials who violated the law during the recent street demonstrations, the panel's chairman Anek Laothammathat said on Wednesday.

CDC spokesman Lertrat Rattanawanit said yesterday that Abhisit also voiced his opposition against the direct election of the prime minister.

Abhisit, who himself served as an unelected prime minister from 2008 to 2011, also warned against certain misunderstandings or wrong hypotheses in writing the new charter.

For instance, he said, completely dividing the administrative and legislative branches would not bring about a more effective balance of power. Also, weakening the political-party system by ensuring MPs are not affiliated with a party would create more corruption even among independent MPs, who would demand money or other benefits for voting on important issues.

The former PM was invited to meet the CDC members at Parliament yesterday as part of the drafters' move to gather input from different political parties and groups.

He also submitted a five-page document to the CDC, stating that these proposals reflected his personal views and not those of his political party. A copy of the document is available on his Facebook page.

Abhisit also pointed out that his party had failed to receive permission from the junta to meet and discuss ideas on what the constitution should look like.

The National Council for Peace and Order, which has banned political gatherings since it seized power from the elected government, had previously suggested that political parties seek exemption on a case-by-case basis.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Abhisit-calls-for-more-power-to-the-people-30248733.html


-- The Nation 2014-11-28

[bkkcanuck8]

In this he is definitely right, there should be no amnesty whatsoever in the constitution..... not even amnesty for the coup (as there was in the last constitution).

Any amnesty proposed should have to go to a referendum independent of everything else.

[razer]

Thai politicians are SOOOO STUPID! They should have legalized corruption like the Americans did by passing a law allowing unlimited campaign contributions from anonymous donations.

Oooops. Hope I didn't plant any ideas here.

Edited November 28, 2014 by razer

[whybother]

In this he is definitely right, there should be no amnesty whatsoever in the constitution..... not even amnesty for the coup (as there was in the last constitution).

Any amnesty proposed should have to go to a referendum independent of everything else.

I can guarantee that there will be an amnesty for this coup in the next constitution just as there was in the 2007 constitution. As in 2007, it will be a reference to the interim constitution and everything in it still being valid.

[The Deerhunter]

Glad to see he supports an elected senate

Probably hoping for a Hong Kong model, where to pool of senators only consists of the "good people"!!

Sounds sensible, but raises some serious questions. By "good" I presume you mean "untainted by corruption or suspicions/allegations of corruption." BUT TIT!!! Where would we find these rare citizens? Surely not among existing politicians, police, military, the civil service, captains of industry or the monkhood? Pretty much all of them are tainted by allegations or suspicions of corruption which is endemic in Thai society. The line between patronage & corruption is so faint as to be virtually indiscernible. Where else is there to look for a Senate pool? Royalty??

Edited November 28, 2014 by The Deerhunter

[FangFerang]

Something here I don't understand. "As for senators, he suggested that they all come from election ..."

Two PTP members are being impeached for the same suggestion.

Seems a bit like a case of "But that was bad when they were in power. Now, well, it's okay."

[whybother]

Something here I don't understand. "As for senators, he suggested that they all come from election ..."

Two PTP members are being impeached for the same suggestion.

Seems a bit like a case of "But that was bad when they were in power. Now, well, it's okay."

They're not being impeached for "suggesting" it. They're being impeached for endorsing a change that would "allegedly benefit them".

[djjamie]

"As for senators, he suggested that they all come from election."

This is now twice that I have disagreed with the Right Honorable Ahbisit.

First time was that he was too tolerant and showed too much patience during the brutal terrorist uprising in 2010.

Now this.

I am all for following the Canadian model and having a fully appointed senate. Thailand voters have already admitted they have no idea what a senator role entails and that is reflected through the new Udon senator winning a senate seat when she had previously smuggled her husband across the border to Laos to escape the law and the Chiang Mai senator is affiliated with RCM51, a minority driven, violent terrorist group. These lawbreakers will ironically be responsible for passing laws. When the majority of the population has no idea what a senator's job entails this is a very bad sign. Thank god the entities that appoint a senate do so knowing full well the evil damage that a fully voted senate is potentially capable of.

​But heay…At least the good man has not has a hissy fit and refused to offer his opinion. He had also asked that martial law be lifted so his political party can give an official statement. He reiterated that all the views he holds now are personal because martial law is not lifted.

This is a man that sees and obstacle, constructively works around it and still gets his point across. That is called working for the people. Not working for yourself.

Edited November 28, 2014 by djjamie

[elgordo38]

Glad to see he supports an elected senate

Probably hoping for a Hong Kong model, where to pool of senators only consists of the "good people"!!

Also like Hong Kong they could turn control of the country over to a administrator that would have to be vetted by the real powers that be in Thailand. They could choose a slate of vetted approved candidates for the populus to vote for. This would be a way to stay in control as the administrator would be a puppet much like the administrator in Hong Kong will be. He in this case is controlled by Beijing.

[sjaak327]

Something here I don't understand. "As for senators, he suggested that they all come from election ..."

Two PTP members are being impeached for the same suggestion.

Seems a bit like a case of "But that was bad when they were in power. Now, well, it's okay."

They're not being impeached for "suggesting" it. They're being impeached for endorsing a change that would "allegedly benefit them".

By that token they might as well do away with the senate. The chance that laws are being voted on that might benefit the senators doing the voting is 100%.

[whybother]

Something here I don't understand. "As for senators, he suggested that they all come from election ..."

Two PTP members are being impeached for the same suggestion.

Seems a bit like a case of "But that was bad when they were in power. Now, well, it's okay."

They're not being impeached for "suggesting" it. They're being impeached for endorsing a change that would "allegedly benefit them".

By that token they might as well do away with the senate. The chance that laws are being voted on that might benefit the senators doing the voting is 100%.

I think the issue is that it specifically benefited them, and didn't benefit anyone else.

[Jasun]

Agree with his sentiments. Not forgetting that failing to vote in an election also has consequences that shouldn't whitewashed.

[sjaak327]

Something here I don't understand. "As for senators, he suggested that they all come from election ..."

Two PTP members are being impeached for the same suggestion.

Seems a bit like a case of "But that was bad when they were in power. Now, well, it's okay."

They're not being impeached for "suggesting" it. They're being impeached for endorsing a change that would "allegedly benefit them".

By that token they might as well do away with the senate. The chance that laws are being voted on that might benefit the senators doing the voting is 100%.

I think the issue is that it specifically benefited them, and didn't benefit anyone else.

Hmm I wonder which law that is, not the proposed amnesty law, as that would potentially benefit everyone, not just the people voting yes on it..Yet 38 senators are being impeached for voting yes on this law, or were those all criminals, which I find particulary hard to believe.

[whybother]

Hmm I wonder which law that is, not the proposed amnesty law, as that would potentially benefit everyone, not just the people voting yes on it..Yet 38 senators are being impeached for voting yes on this law, or were those all criminals, which I find particulary hard to believe.

The National Anti-Corruption Commission has faulted 36 senators of abuse of authority for endorsing a constitutional amendment which will enable senators whose term has expired to contest senatorial election without having to take a break.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/722393-36-senators-face-impeachment-for-abuse-of-authority-in-charter-amendment/

[smutcakes]

I am all for no amnesty, but i presume this is selective non amnesty.

Coup makers? I presume your amnesty written into the constitution is okay, but okay to impeach under the same laws.

I understand why they do it, and to a degree have sympathy with them on it but it sure reeks of hypocrisy.

[bkkcanuck8]

I am all for following the Canadian model and having a fully appointed senate. Thailand voters have already admitted they have no idea what a senator role entails and that is reflected through the new Udon senator winning a senate seat when she had previously smuggled her husband across the border to Laos to escape the law and the Chiang Mai senator is affiliated with RCM51, a minority driven, violent terrorist group. These lawbreakers will ironically be responsible for passing laws. When the majority of the population has no idea what a senator's job entails this is a very bad sign. Thank god the entities that appoint a senate do so knowing full well the evil damage that a fully voted senate is potentially capable of.

​But heay…At least the good man has not has a hissy fit and refused to offer his opinion. He had also asked that martial law be lifted so his political party can give an official statement. He reiterated that all the views he holds now are personal because martial law is not lifted.

This is a man that sees and obstacle, constructively works around it and still gets his point across. That is called working for the people. Not working for yourself.

The Canadian model for the senate is one that is elected of old political hacks as a reward for loyalty to the current party in power - for life.... Then giving them virtually no power to do anything other than "a second sober thought". About the only thing they can do is delay legislation, and run up nice cushy expenses... or live most of the year in Mexico and come back for the minimum number of votes etc.

In most western countries, appointed senators tend to have very weak powers since they are seen without mandate.

[bkkcanuck8]

Something here I don't understand. "As for senators, he suggested that they all come from election ..."

Two PTP members are being impeached for the same suggestion.

Seems a bit like a case of "But that was bad when they were in power. Now, well, it's okay."

They're not being impeached for "suggesting" it. They're being impeached for endorsing a change that would "allegedly benefit them".

By that token they might as well do away with the senate. The chance that laws are being voted on that might benefit the senators doing the voting is 100%.

I think the issue is that it specifically benefited them, and didn't benefit anyone else.

That is a tenuous position since an "elected senate" will always benefit someone, and an "appointed" senate will end up benefiting those that cannot win an election. In most western countries, if a government passes a law which is "unconstitutional" - the courts deem the law null and void.... they do not impeach governments over it.

[ExPratt]

I like Abhisit's plummy accent.

As a scum , riff raff working class oink myself , I find it somewhat comforting that a man who went to both Eton and Oxford is telling me how to think

[sjaak327]

Hmm I wonder which law that is, not the proposed amnesty law, as that would potentially benefit everyone, not just the people voting yes on it..Yet 38 senators are being impeached for voting yes on this law, or were those all criminals, which I find particulary hard to believe.

The National Anti-Corruption Commission has faulted 36 senators of abuse of authority for endorsing a constitutional amendment which will enable senators whose term has expired to contest senatorial election without having to take a break.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/722393-36-senators-face-impeachment-for-abuse-of-authority-in-charter-amendment/

Hmm, so they lost 2 senators, or is this a different issue ? the NLA must be a busy body having to vote on impeachement for all of these senators.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/NACC-targets-38-ex-senators-30247735.html

This was what I was referring to of course.

"The national anti-graft agency decided yesterday to initiate impeachment proceedings against 38 former senators accused of violating the abolished 2007 Constitution by backing amendments that would have allegedly benefited them."

[whybother]

Something here I don't understand. "As for senators, he suggested that they all come from election ..."

Two PTP members are being impeached for the same suggestion.

Seems a bit like a case of "But that was bad when they were in power. Now, well, it's okay."

They're not being impeached for "suggesting" it. They're being impeached for endorsing a change that would "allegedly benefit them".

By that token they might as well do away with the senate. The chance that laws are being voted on that might benefit the senators doing the voting is 100%.

I think the issue is that it specifically benefited them, and didn't benefit anyone else.

That is a tenuous position since an "elected senate" will always benefit someone, and an "appointed" senate will end up benefiting those that cannot win an election. In most western countries, if a government passes a law which is "unconstitutional" - the courts deem the law null and void.... they do not impeach governments over it.

It wasn't the appointed/elected law that they were voting on.

[Robby nz]

Something here I don't understand. "As for senators, he suggested that they all come from election ..."

Two PTP members are being impeached for the same suggestion.

Seems a bit like a case of "But that was bad when they were in power. Now, well, it's okay."

No they are not and I am sure you know that.

They are being impeached for the underhand (illegal) way they tried to get the legislation passed.

He and the Dems were always in favor of a fully elected senate, in fact they voted for the first reading of bill 190.

It was the last minute add on's allowing family of sitting MP's to be senators and abolishing the 6 year term that they were against and the sneaky way PT tried to push through those amendments.

[smutcakes]

Something here I don't understand. "As for senators, he suggested that they all come from election ..."

Two PTP members are being impeached for the same suggestion.

Seems a bit like a case of "But that was bad when they were in power. Now, well, it's okay."

No they are not and I am sure you know that.

They are being impeached for the underhand (illegal) way they tried to get the legislation passed.

He and the Dems were always in favor of a fully elected senate, in fact they voted for the first reading of bill 190.

It was the last minute add on's allowing family of sitting MP's to be senators and abolishing the 6 year term that they were against and the sneaky way PT tried to push through those amendments.

Was it Robby? Have you seen the file? What was illegal in what they did in comparison to the countless times the Constitution has been amended previously.

I wait with baited breath for your reply.

[Robby nz]

Whats with this ?

Abhisit, who himself served as an unelected prime minister from 2008 to 2011, also warned against certain misunderstandings or wrong hypotheses in writing the new charter.

He was elected PM by the majority of MP's in the house after forming a coalition with the minor parties exactly the same as Yingluck was elected PM by the members of her party.

Has the Nation been reading the red version of history or what ?