Retaliatory attacks feared: Security tightened in Thailand's South

[hawker9000]

I am totally and wholeheartedly opposed to death sentences, there are a few reasons for this

1. By shooting an individual, quickly and cleanly, we make him into a Martyr and this is likely to produce a heroic response in his group and make him into a person of high regard

2. Once you have committed a capital felony, you have nothing to lose, so why not do it again and again without risk of penalty increase

3. A prison sentence affects not only the inmate, but his whole family and circle of associates and so it burdens the entire group which supported the crime. It is therefore not only more just but it allows the burden to fall where it can achieve the best result and lastly

4. Study of these people over a long period ( 20 years or more ) is surely the best way to equip our practioners to identify and deal with the problems that these people have. If they are psychotic, then force them to undergo 6 hours per week of face to face study with and by students for their entire sentence. Maybe some good can come out of their miserable existence.

Playing devil's advocate:

1. But if you shoot every single member of his group there'll be nobody left to hold him in high regard.

2. The penalty can be increased. I can think of increasingly gruesome death penalties, way beyond mere shooting. (And perhaps the penalty could be increased to include all relatives and associates.)

3. So, if the group which supported the crime is burdened, what's the problem? (Not really sure what your point is here.)

4. The problem isn't psychosis, it's Islam. It doesn't require a 20 year study. Just how one can find the political will to eliminate Islam is a different issue.

You cannot kill an ideology

Oh but you can take a lot of the fun out of it... The idea that you withold justice to avoid "martyring" (translation: making their equally vicious co-conspirators mad) is just plain preposterous. Better to honor their fallen VICTIMS than these murdering scum. Your priorities are all wrong.

Hang 'em and feed their remains to the fish. (And then treat the lifers to fish & chips.).

Edited November 28, 2014 by hawker9000

[AyG]

I am totally and wholeheartedly opposed to death sentences, there are a few reasons for this

1. By shooting an individual, quickly and cleanly, we make him into a Martyr and this is likely to produce a heroic response in his group and make him into a person of high regard

2. Once you have committed a capital felony, you have nothing to lose, so why not do it again and again without risk of penalty increase

3. A prison sentence affects not only the inmate, but his whole family and circle of associates and so it burdens the entire group which supported the crime. It is therefore not only more just but it allows the burden to fall where it can achieve the best result and lastly

4. Study of these people over a long period ( 20 years or more ) is surely the best way to equip our practioners to identify and deal with the problems that these people have. If they are psychotic, then force them to undergo 6 hours per week of face to face study with and by students for their entire sentence. Maybe some good can come out of their miserable existence.

Playing devil's advocate:

1. But if you shoot every single member of his group there'll be nobody left to hold him in high regard.

2. The penalty can be increased. I can think of increasingly gruesome death penalties, way beyond mere shooting. (And perhaps the penalty could be increased to include all relatives and associates.)

3. So, if the group which supported the crime is burdened, what's the problem? (Not really sure what your point is here.)

4. The problem isn't psychosis, it's Islam. It doesn't require a 20 year study. Just how one can find the political will to eliminate Islam is a different issue.

You cannot kill an ideology

Perhaps not, but that's no excuse not to try.

And anyway, history tells a different story. I don't think there are many Gnostics, Marcionites, Montanites, Arianists, Cathars or Hussites left. And that's only in the Christian tradition.

[ezzra]

Good argument for execution will be that given life sentence instead, they could be out in several

years owing to amnesty, goodwill, pardon or prisoners exchange programs, prison

overcrowding, you name it and before you know it those guys are back to doing what they

did before, killing people but now with extra vengeance... execute their asses and be done

with these scums of the earth once and for all...

[emilymat]

The sentence will never be carried out in my view, given the history of actual executions in Thailand.

Apart from the moral issues the practical problem with the death penalty is it's finality. Suppose the two Burmese had not had the enormous social media support, they could have been executed by now.

Anyway, I would put these in jail for ever with no hope of release.

[hawker9000]

Much as I'd pay to pull the switch on 'em myself, I have to agree. The sentences won't be carried out. Hopefully they'll eventually meet with some other equally inglorious, and preferably far more painful, end though.

[catweazle]

Political and religious extremists should face extreme punishment in return. No mercy! Death sentence fits like a glove to them!

[connda]

it will but make martyrs

That it will.

[connda]

I am totally and wholeheartedly opposed to death sentences, there are a few reasons for this 1. By shooting an individual, quickly and cleanly, we make him into a Martyr and this is likely to produce a heroic response in his group and make him into a person of high regard 2. Once you have committed a capital felony, you have nothing to lose, so why not do it again and again without risk of penalty increase 3. A prison sentence affects not only the inmate, but his whole family and circle of associates and so it burdens the entire group which supported the crime. It is therefore not only more just but it allows the burden to fall where it can achieve the best result and lastly 4. Study of these people over a long period ( 20 years or more ) is surely the best way to equip our practioners to identify and deal with the problems that these people have. If they are psychotic, then force them to undergo 6 hours per week of face to face study with and by students for their entire sentence. Maybe some good can come out of their miserable existence.

FYI, they don't shoot people here anymore (15 rounds to the back with a Heckler-Koch machine gun - brutal). It's now lethal injection. Obviously they have a supplier for phenobarbital that the USA doesn't.

[jesimps]

I am against punishment by death.

An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, is against my believes.

I condemn the killings of the soldiers as I would condemn any killings of other human beings.

But by killing the perpetrators we come down to the same level as them.

We are not Gods to take lives.

Prison for life, and I mean life, will be an appropriate punishment for them.

I've never agreed with anything you've posted mate. I still don't.

Edited November 28, 2014 by jesimps

[vogie]

Punish them in accordance with the Sharia law. They should be beheaded on Friday during the noon call for prayer.

In accordance with Sharia law they have done nothing wrong. From the Koran

"Fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you ... kill them wherever you find them" (Sura 2:190-191)

By Sharia law they should be set free.

Incidentally, the call to prayer isn't exactly at noon. The time depends upon the time of year and where you are on the globe.

Being a bit padantic are we not?

[Wombat6]

I agree with executing Terrorists as if jailed and then later released, do you really think that they are not going to kill again?They are already radicalised I wonder what do gooder Amnesty Internatiol think about Isis Killing people because they dont embrace Islam or the beheading of Aid workers. And I suppose the Al Shabab groups action in Kenya recently doesn't call for the Death sentence when caught.

[quicky]

I am against punishment by death.

An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth, is against my believes.

I condemn the killings of the soldiers as I would condemn any killings of other human beings.

But by killing the perpetrators we come down to the same level as them.

We are not Gods to take lives.

Prison for life, and I mean life, will be an appropriate punishment for them.

Really? I hope it lands on your doorstep then we can all watch you sing kumbaya my lord while they blow up your family. Then we can stand around and say "I condemn you" I condemn you to nothing but nontheless I do. LOL yea OK bleeding heart liberals should be along side them when they go.

It isn't like they haven't tried everything else already, oh except to give them the South for their own, just look at the rest of the world and we can see how that worked out,

I can't figure out why they are stopping at the insurgents, the entire Nazi ideology is part of the problem and removal is the only solution, proof is in the results of Germany, it became a great country once it recovered from their Nazi ideology.

[Alwyn]

Punish them in accordance with the Sharia law. They should be beheaded on Friday during the noon call for prayer.

In accordance with Sharia law they have done nothing wrong. From the Koran

"Fight in the way of Allah with those who fight with you ... kill them wherever you find them" (Sura 2:190-191)

By Sharia law they should be set free.

Incidentally, the call to prayer isn't exactly at noon. The time depends upon the time of year and where you are on the globe.

Sharia law has NOTHING to do with the Koran, nothing. Sharia law doesn't even have anything to do with the Haddiths. Sharia law was put together by various Imams and clerics, basically as a way of controlling their women. Turkey which is one of the largest Muslim countries (I don't include Indonesia as the government is not Islamic although most of the population are) has banned EVERYTHING Sharia. I personally believe terrorists should be put to death not because of any religious thoughts but because they're murdering animals who need to be exterminated. Nobody seems to decry Indonesia or Singapore's death penalty for drug offences but get all fluffy and agitated when a murdering terrorist gets the death penalty. Strange World.

[Torrens54]

Punish them in accordance with the Sharia law. They should be beheaded on Friday during the noon call for prayer.

I second that, after all, that's what they wanted to install in the areas under they control no?

beside, if you live by sword, expect to die by the sword..

I be willing to pay for the blade's sharpener service....

While the so-called "Human Rights" activists sit around wailing and wringing their hands claiming that the Death Sentence is Not a Deterrent,

at least it ensures, that These Murdering Scum will NEVER commit another crime against humanity.

[Bakeman]

Death penalties are humane if you look at the suffering one must endure during a life behind bars. On a business note, why should Thai tax payers keep up the housing and food for these murderers? They were not a military group but killed government soldiers performing their task. Use a firing squad and let the bodies hit the floor.

[BSJ]

I like the beheading idea....but the sword must be sharp and well lubricated with pig fat.

[Thai at Heart]

Do they really need to mix death sentence verdicts with distributing water filters?

Thats bound to stop any backlash I guess.

[AyG]

Sharia law has NOTHING to do with the Koran, nothing.

Thank you for the correction. So many sources get that wrong. Here's just a handful.

"The origin of sharia is the Qu'ran, and traditions gathered from the life of the Islamic Prophet Muhammad"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

"The Sharia comes from the Koran"

http://www.crf-usa.org/america-responds-to-terrorism/the-origins-of-islamic-law.html

"the Qur'an laid the underpinnings for a distinctively Islamic legal order"

http://www.islamawareness.net/Shariah/sh_article005.html

"the Quran and hadith, the two main sources or foundations of shariah"

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/07/james-m-arlandson-what-is-shariah

"Sharia is the body of Islamic religious law based on the Koran and the words and actions of the prophet Mohammed and his followers."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576065/The-origins-and-obligations-of-sharia-law.html

Turkey which is one of the largest Muslim countries

Turkey is not an Islamic country. It has a secular constitution thanks to Atatürk's reforms.

[Docno]

I cannot believe the foolishness of some so-called human beings like costas2008(he is obviously a christian so we may forgive his ignorance from lack of proper spiritual education-Jesus is the only way is not an intelligent philosophy).These men are dedicated murderers-they have to be removed from society.Unfortunately so many non-sense religions clutter up the world which we do not need-we need God fine-but not religions.Why is it so difficult for these idiots to realize that no-one ever dies-only the body dies-the soul cannot die-THE SPIRIT NEVER DIES so we are just forcing these murderers into another life and they recieve their just karma.Try reading Bhagavad Gita as it is for the genuine explanation sans religions of how life operates so that you can understand properly-PLEASE.

I'm sorry, but your talk of spirit and soul and karma is also in the domain of religion. The Bhagavad Gita is a religious text. I'm an agnostic, so as a disinterested party I can tell you that it is impossible to show that your beliefs are any more valid than Costa's, if indeed he is a Christian.

As for capital punishment, there's no reason to assume that someone who opposes it is Christian. In fact, I think that you'll find that the majority of Americans who support capital punishment are Christians of one stripe or another. Moreover, I agree with Costa's stance, and as I've said, I am not a Christian.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Docno]

Sharia law has NOTHING to do with the Koran, nothing.

Thank you for the correction. So many sources get that wrong. Here's just a handful.

"The origin of sharia is the Qu'ran, and traditions gathered from the life of the Islamic Prophet Muhammad"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

"The Sharia comes from the Koran"

http://www.crf-usa.org/america-responds-to-terrorism/the-origins-of-islamic-law.html

"the Qur'an laid the underpinnings for a distinctively Islamic legal order"

http://www.islamawareness.net/Shariah/sh_article005.html

"the Quran and hadith, the two main sources or foundations of shariah"

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/07/james-m-arlandson-what-is-shariah

"Sharia is the body of Islamic religious law based on the Koran and the words and actions of the prophet Mohammed and his followers."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576065/The-origins-and-obligations-of-sharia-law.html

Turkey which is one of the largest Muslim countries

Turkey is not an Islamic country. It has a secular constitution thanks to Atatürk's reforms.

Turkey may have a secular constitution, but 99% of the population identifies as Muslim, so I guess it depends on how you define an 'Islamic country'. (P.s. Turkey is also a founding member of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation... that should tell you something)

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[bangon04]

""It might be tempting for the Thai authorities to think of the death penalty as a quick fix to combating insecurity, but there is no evidence whatsoever that the threat of execution acts as a particular deterrent to crime."

eerrr - execution will probably stop these 5 re-offending, don't you think?

If they kill enough of them, it will have an effect - maybe try stacking them face down in the back of trucks until they suffocate?

[godden]

Let them go and meet their virgins, all sourced from nana of course.

[Si Thea01]

I cannot believe the foolishness of some so-called human beings like costas2008(he is obviously a christian so we may forgive his ignorance from lack of proper spiritual education-Jesus is the only way is not an intelligent philosophy).These men are dedicated murderers-they have to be removed from society.Unfortunately so many non-sense religions clutter up the world which we do not need-we need God fine-but not religions.Why is it so difficult for these idiots to realize that no-one ever dies-only the body dies-the soul cannot die-THE SPIRIT NEVER DIES so we are just forcing these murderers into another life and they recieve their just karma.Try reading Bhagavad Gita as it is for the genuine explanation sans religions of how life operates so that you can understand properly-PLEASE.

Firstly why do you think he is a Christian and secondly your assumptions/generalisations makes you arrogant not enlightened. Nobody that walks this earth have full knowledge nor full understanding and from this perspective on life neither you nor me can judge others on their beliefs and actions. So get of your high horse and live a life of humility.

I really hope that you never experience what many families in Southern Thailand have. I wonder what your tone would be if one of these low lives took away your loved ones in a terrorist act all carried out in the name of a religion.

[Si Thea01]

The sentence will never be carried out in my view, given the history of actual executions in Thailand.

Apart from the moral issues the practical problem with the death penalty is it's finality. Suppose the two Burmese had not had the enormous social media support, they could have been executed by now.

Anyway, I would put these in jail for ever with no hope of release.

Give me a break. What relevance is the Koh Tao matter to the current post? Can't help yourself can you? Must go off on a tangent. What has insurgency and death sentences of convicted killers got to do with that unfortunate incident? What an unmitigated, fallacious statement.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Si Thea01

[billd766]

"The fact that the (junta) feels the need to block Human Rights Watch’s Thailand webpage means that we must be doing something right," said Brad Adams, HRW’s Asia director."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/breakingnews/Thailand-blocks-Human-Rights-Watch-webpage-30248662.html

Actually no it doesn't. It means that the government like so many of the people in Thailand and worldwide are bored with your perpetual whinings about human rights for the criminals while ignoring the victims,

Instead of doing what you do the most which is blabbering, why don't YOU go to the deep south of Thailand and live amonst the village people and learn what life is all about.

No comfortable office with a/c, no luxury rented house with maids and gardeners, no SUV and chauffeur, no fancy meals and try to live on 10 or 15,000 baht a month. Try that for 6 months and then come back and tell the world wht life is REALLY like in the south and then perhaps people may pay attention to what you say.

[HUAHIN62]

I cannot believe the foolishness of some so-called human beings like costas2008(he is obviously a christian so we may forgive his ignorance from lack of proper spiritual education-Jesus is the only way is not an intelligent philosophy).These men are dedicated murderers-they have to be removed from society.Unfortunately so many non-sense religions clutter up the world which we do not need-we need God fine-but not religions.Why is it so difficult for these idiots to realize that no-one ever dies-only the body dies-the soul cannot die-THE SPIRIT NEVER DIES so we are just forcing these murderers into another life and they recieve their just karma.Try reading Bhagavad Gita as it is for the genuine explanation sans religions of how life operates so that you can understand properly-PLEASE.

Firstly why do you think he is a Christian and secondly your assumptions/generalisations makes you arrogant not enlightened. Nobody that walks this earth have full knowledge nor full understanding and from this perspective on life neither you nor me can judge others on their beliefs and actions. So get of your high horse and live a life of humility.

I really hope that you never experience what many families in Southern Thailand have. I wonder what your tone would be if one of these low lives took away your loved ones in a terrorist act all carried out in the name of a religion.

I was not commenting on the south I was commenting on the intollerence of gopis towards another TV member. Please read costas post and gopis's comment on that and then read mine. I have lost friends in a terrorist war and have seen the effect of such a war on combatants and civilians. Unfortunately both sides in this fight are wrong. The terrorist are wrong in killing people but the Thai government (not only this one but way back) are wrong in not decentralising power to the region. This region was taken away from Malaysia and given to Thailand under colonial rule and the people in the area never choose to be part of Thailand. For many years they suffered from neglect and oppresion. Their language and religion was scorn by the Thai's. Many Thai's still don't consider muslims as Thai, because a Thai must be a buddist. Two wrongs unfortunately don't make a right.

[rickirs]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Punish them in accordance with the Sharia law. They should be beheaded on Friday during the noon call for prayer.

I know you joke because if you want sharia law: A non-Muslim cannot rule over Muslims -- even over a non-Muslim minority. How does that comport with the Head of State of Thailand must be Buddhist?

[Alwyn]

Sharia law has NOTHING to do with the Koran, nothing.

Thank you for the correction. So many sources get that wrong. Here's just a handful.

"The origin of sharia is the Qu'ran, and traditions gathered from the life of the Islamic Prophet Muhammad"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

"The Sharia comes from the Koran"

http://www.crf-usa.org/america-responds-to-terrorism/the-origins-of-islamic-law.html

"the Qur'an laid the underpinnings for a distinctively Islamic legal order"

http://www.islamawareness.net/Shariah/sh_article005.html

"the Quran and hadith, the two main sources or foundations of shariah"

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/07/james-m-arlandson-what-is-shariah

"Sharia is the body of Islamic religious law based on the Koran and the words and actions of the prophet Mohammed and his followers."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576065/The-origins-and-obligations-of-sharia-law.html

Turkey which is one of the largest Muslim countries

Turkey is not an Islamic country. It has a secular constitution thanks to Atatürk's reforms.

That is interesting, the last part regarding secularism in Turkey and your mention of Ataturk (weirdly enough when I was contracting in Bangadesh I lived in a road called Ataturk) But it doesn't match what I "know" or rather, what I think I know. So I researched a bit and got taken to wikipedia (which I don't usually do) and found this;

Diyanet and secularism

Reforms going in the direction of secularism have been completed under Atatürk (abolition of the Caliphate, etc..).

However, Turkey is not strictly a secular state:

• there is no separation between religion and State
• there is a tutelage of religion by the state

Anyway regarding Sharia. I look at the last two quotes you kindly provided "Sharia is the body of Islamic law based on the Koran and the words and actions of the prophet Mohammed and his followers" and then "The Quran and Haddith, the two main sources of inspiration or foundations of Sharia" You're saying that the Quran and Haddith inspired Sharia yet it contradicts the Quran as according to the Quran, there is no compulsion in religion And in fact it's almost anti-Quran. Here's two quotes, first from the Quran and the second from Sharia

1. 4. Muslims read the Koran & follow only the Koran. Any other 2^nd grade books like hadit, fekha etc. are strictly prohibited (Haram) to them.[Ref: 5: 44-49; 6: 1945: 6; 50: 45;77: 50]

2. 4. Shariah considers the Koran only for reading. But they are to follow the 2^ndgrade books like hadit, fekha, fatoa etc. written by the groups & sub-groups.

There plenty of other, for example the Quran states that all Prophets are international and from the same God and for same objectives and equally honourable and respectable. The Quran then goes on to say it is strictly prohibited to make any distinction among them. Sharia law says only Mohamed is the greatest, International, Prophet of the Prophets and the rest are lower grade.

So I say again, Sharia has nothing to do with the Quran. But nice to have a bit of stimulation!

[Alwyn]

Sharia law has NOTHING to do with the Koran, nothing.

Thank you for the correction. So many sources get that wrong. Here's just a handful.

"The origin of sharia is the Qu'ran, and traditions gathered from the life of the Islamic Prophet Muhammad"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

"The Sharia comes from the Koran"

http://www.crf-usa.org/america-responds-to-terrorism/the-origins-of-islamic-law.html

"the Qur'an laid the underpinnings for a distinctively Islamic legal order"

http://www.islamawareness.net/Shariah/sh_article005.html

"the Quran and hadith, the two main sources or foundations of shariah"

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2012/07/james-m-arlandson-what-is-shariah

"Sharia is the body of Islamic religious law based on the Koran and the words and actions of the prophet Mohammed and his followers."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1576065/The-origins-and-obligations-of-sharia-law.html

Turkey which is one of the largest Muslim countries

Turkey is not an Islamic country. It has a secular constitution thanks to Atatürk's reforms.

Turkey may have a secular constitution, but 99% of the population identifies as Muslim, so I guess it depends on how you define an 'Islamic country'. (P.s. Turkey is also a founding member of the Organization of Islamic Cooperation... that should tell you something)

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

I just covered this with AyG, he's not correct - and I quote: (I pointed out that Sharia has nothing to do with the Quran on my reply - post #58)

Reforms going in the direction of secularism have been completed under Atatürk (abolition of the Caliphate, etc..).

However, Turkey is not strictly a secular state:

• there is no separation between religion and State
• there is a tutelage of religion by the state

[hawker9000]

""It might be tempting for the Thai authorities to think of the death penalty as a quick fix to combating insecurity, but there is no evidence whatsoever that the threat of execution acts as a particular deterrent to crime."

eerrr - execution will probably stop these 5 re-offending, don't you think?

If they kill enough of them, it will have an effect - maybe try stacking them face down in the back of trucks until they suffocate?

He thinks CP isn't enough of a deterrent. Ok, let's add a requirement for restitution to the families of the victim BY families of the convicted murderers. 'Make the mums & daddies responsible for how they raise their little precious... All the bleeding hearts SO concerned about the rights of the convicts AND their poor families; HOW ABOUT some small concern with the welfare of the victims and THEIR families???

Oh my gosh! Parental responsibility?! Oh dear, oh dear. 'Can't be having any of THAT, can we? Where might it LEAD??!!

Edited November 29, 2014 by hawker9000