Oil prices plunge after Opec meeting

[Sharchen]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

it's not killing Russia. it's killing smaller shale oil producers in the US who need an oil price at 70-75$ to break even.These are the ones that will stop at such low prices. Russia's producers and also the ones in the Middle East have much lower break even points than current price levels.

At $70 a barrel 40% of the shale producers are loosing money. Do they continue to loose money for the sake of the Motherland? Some will continue to hemorage money as they have land lease payments and equipment rental costs. If they do not keep their experienced workers they will be in trouble when the oil tide turns which it must when operations are shut down. The Saudi's will not cut production they learned last time it does not work as their own OPEC members stabbed them in the back and increased production.

Yes, OPEC has been officially rendered toothless, Russia can't curb production because they desperately need the cash, and oil shale is playing out faster than expected. The world economy will recover, and with it oil prices. This may be our last reprieve to invest in renewables.

[zig]

How does it not damage Saudi?

Oil is not the only source of income for Russia, Gas is just as much.

Its deliberate alright, only more like cutting its own oxygen.

As far as I know, Russia has linked the gas prices to oil prices in many delivery contracts for Europe. If oil prices drop then gas prices shall drop too...

[konying]

How does it not damage Saudi?

Oil is not the only source of income for Russia, Gas is just as much.

Its deliberate alright, only more like cutting its own oxygen.

As far as I know, Russia has linked the gas prices to oil prices in many delivery contracts for Europe. If oil prices drop then gas prices shall drop too...

You would be very incorrect.

Gas is sold under a contract, if contract has expired, there is nothing to stop Russia to raise gas price and EU will have to pay, as no other options are there.

Yes US may not get hurt, but EU sure will

[maidee]

they will soon do something to get it back at 100$ or more

disguesting that they can speculate on crucial things like this

[Robert24]

@maidee: no speculation, only driven by demand and supply. Currently more supply than demand in market. Prices will fall until there is an equilibrium between demand and supply. Applies to all commodities incl oil.

[Anthony5]

it's not killing Russia. it's killing smaller shale oil producers in the US who need an oil price at 70-75$ to break even.These are the ones that will stop at such low prices. Russia's producers and also the ones in the Middle East have much lower break even points than current price levels.

At $70 a barrel 40% of the shale producers are loosing money. Do they continue to loose money for the sake of the Motherland? Some will continue to hemorage money as they have land lease payments and equipment rental costs. If they do not keep their experienced workers they will be in trouble when the oil tide turns which it must when operations are shut down. The Saudi's will not cut production they learned last time it does not work as their own OPEC members stabbed them in the back and increased production.

Neversure not gone like you when he wakes up, and sure never gone like this video as well

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000332712&play=1

Neil Beveridge, Senior Oil Analyst at Sanford C. Bernstein, says OPEC's decision not to cut output is triggering a glut of supply and may result in bankruptcy for U.S. shale producers.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Anthony5

[F430murci]

it's not killing Russia. it's killing smaller shale oil producers in the US who need an oil price at 70-75$ to break even.These are the ones that will stop at such low prices. Russia's producers and also the ones in the Middle East have much lower break even points than current price levels.

At $70 a barrel 40% of the shale producers are loosing money. Do they continue to loose money for the sake of the Motherland? Some will continue to hemorage money as they have land lease payments and equipment rental costs. If they do not keep their experienced workers they will be in trouble when the oil tide turns which it must when operations are shut down. The Saudi's will not cut production they learned last time it does not work as their own OPEC members stabbed them in the back and increased production.

Neversure not gone like you when he wakes up, and sure never gone like this video as well

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000332712&play=1

Neil Beveridge, Senior Oil Analyst at Sanford C. Bernstein, says OPEC's decision not to cut output is triggering a glut of supply and may result in bankruptcy for U.S. shale producers.

Cannot see the forest for the trees. The low oil price simply turns out to be a bad PRIVATE investment and bad business decision for a few in the US. Prices at $ 70 to $ 75 per barrel are beyond devastating to Russia's entire economy and GDP. Months ago, I showed how $ 90 or $ 85 per barrel would drive Russian into a recession thereby causing a devaluing of currency and a further rise in interests rates. It is happening now and it is very, very bad.

The US will simply extract oil when the time and price is right, but it is not needed now. The point is, we have the reserves necessary to create independence and our entire economy is not predicated upon us mining and exporting oil at a given price.

[konying]

it's not killing Russia. it's killing smaller shale oil producers in the US who need an oil price at 70-75$ to break even.These are the ones that will stop at such low prices. Russia's producers and also the ones in the Middle East have much lower break even points than current price levels.

At $70 a barrel 40% of the shale producers are loosing money. Do they continue to loose money for the sake of the Motherland? Some will continue to hemorage money as they have land lease payments and equipment rental costs. If they do not keep their experienced workers they will be in trouble when the oil tide turns which it must when operations are shut down. The Saudi's will not cut production they learned last time it does not work as their own OPEC members stabbed them in the back and increased production.

Neversure not gone like you when he wakes up, and sure never gone like this video as well

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000332712&play=1

Neil Beveridge, Senior Oil Analyst at Sanford C. Bernstein, says OPEC's decision not to cut output is triggering a glut of supply and may result in bankruptcy for U.S. shale producers.

Cannot see the forest for the trees. The low oil price simply turns out to be a bad PRIVATE investment and bad business decision for a few in the US. Prices at $ 70 to $ 75 per barrel are beyond devastating to Russia's entire economy and GDP. Months ago, I showed how $ 90 or $ 85 per barrel would drive Russian into a recession thereby causing a devaluing of currency and a further rise in interests rates. It is happening now and it is very, very bad.

The US will simply extract oil when the time and price is right, but it is not needed now. The point is, we have the reserves necessary to create independence and our entire economy is not predicated upon us mining and exporting oil at a given price.

Oil Enters New Era as OPEC Faces Off Against Shale; Who Blinks as Price Slides Toward $70? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-27/oil-in-new-era-as-opec-refuses-to-yield-to-u-s-shale.html

Edited November 28, 2014 by konying

[F430murci]

At $70 a barrel 40% of the shale producers are loosing money. Do they continue to loose money for the sake of the Motherland? Some will continue to hemorage money as they have land lease payments and equipment rental costs. If they do not keep their experienced workers they will be in trouble when the oil tide turns which it must when operations are shut down. The Saudi's will not cut production they learned last time it does not work as their own OPEC members stabbed them in the back and increased production.

Neversure not gone like you when he wakes up, and sure never gone like this video as well

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000332712&play=1

Neil Beveridge, Senior Oil Analyst at Sanford C. Bernstein, says OPEC's decision not to cut output is triggering a glut of supply and may result in bankruptcy for U.S. shale producers.

Cannot see the forest for the trees. The low oil price simply turns out to be a bad PRIVATE investment and bad business decision for a few in the US. Prices at $ 70 to $ 75 per barrel are beyond devastating to Russia's entire economy and GDP. Months ago, I showed how $ 90 or $ 85 per barrel would drive Russian into a recession thereby causing a devaluing of currency and a further rise in interests rates. It is happening now and it is very, very bad.

The US will simply extract oil when the time and price is right, but it is not needed now. The point is, we have the reserves necessary to create independence and our entire economy is not predicated upon us mining and exporting oil at a given price.

Oil Enters New Era as OPEC Faces Off Against Shale; Who Blinks as Price Slides Toward $70? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-27/oil-in-new-era-as-opec-refuses-to-yield-to-u-s-shale.html

Did you actually read it or listen to the little video? Points is, lower oil prices is good for US economy. Sure, it may hurt some private companies and cut into some large oil company profits, but who cares. They, and the speculators, have been gouging us with artificially inflated oil prices since Katrina. Investment in oil exploration is risky business and investors in shale will certainly have some short term losses. Shitzzz happens, but lower prices is a long term benefit for US economy. We also still have a ton of reserves so no real dependence on anyone. More of a free market, who has lowest price issue now. This will only lead to Us exploration figuring out ways to reduce costs, i.e., cut into their grossly large profits, or we will hold off some US exploration until it becomes necessary again.

Again, you miss it. The lower prices is good for the US economy overall, but devastating to Russia's economy overall. Shale oil is hardly the US economy.

----------

Today, gas is inexpensive not because the economy is weak but because frackers are simply too good at what they do. They’re victims of their own success. What has hurt them has helped American consumers build more disposable cash flows, which can now be spent on fast food, retail, home improvement and other goods and services.

. . .

In the meantime, American producers will continue to pour out record levels of oil, and President Vladimir Putin’s antics in Ukraine will continue to stir up geopolitical tension. Saudi Arabia appears to be more aligned with Europe and the U.S. against Russia, Syria and Iran.

All of this short-term activity might be bad for the fracking industry, but the big winners are consumers and investors. We’re in a steady, modest expansion of our economy and this is good for investing in domestic stocks.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2014/11/19/airlines-china-u-s-consumers-among-biggest-beneficiaries-of-cheaper-oil/2/

[Publicus]

Cannot see the forest for the trees. The low oil price simply turns out to be a bad PRIVATE investment and bad business decision for a few in the US. Prices at $ 70 to $ 75 per barrel are beyond devastating to Russia's entire economy and GDP. Months ago, I showed how $ 90 or $ 85 per barrel would drive Russian into a recession thereby causing a devaluing of currency and a further rise in interests rates. It is happening now and it is very, very bad.

The US will simply extract oil when the time and price is right, but it is not needed now. The point is, we have the reserves necessary to create independence and our entire economy is not predicated upon us mining and exporting oil at a given price.

Oil Enters New Era as OPEC Faces Off Against Shale; Who Blinks as Price Slides Toward $70? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-27/oil-in-new-era-as-opec-refuses-to-yield-to-u-s-shale.html

This is from the article you yourself cite. The article also points out that the US is the new 'swing' energy producer of the world which puts it in a pretty good place.

Only about 4 percent of U.S. shale production needs $80 or more to be profitable, according to the Paris-based International Energy Agency. Most production in the Bakken formation, one of the main drivers of shale oil output, remains profitable at or below $42 a barrel, the IEA estimates. The agency expects U.S. supply to rise by almost 1 million barrels a day next year, with increasing flows to international markets.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-27/oil-in-new-era-as-opec-refuses-to-yield-to-u-s-shale.html

People who try their hardest to convince others the US economy and financial system are feeble and falling need to watch the world's deepest capital market to see the overall strength of the US economy in this face off with OPEC whose capital markets and technological capability are a fraction of what the US has and does.

Opec got seriously burned from its 1970s manipulations of oil prices and availability, losing out to the US strategies which were to reestablish lower oil prices and Opec hasn't ever recovered from its manipulations disaster. I'm going to find out today how to screw Opec in this and I'm going to start doing it.

Shale is now like the automobile builders were 100 years ago when there were a hundred small and struggling competitors. Almost all of 'em fell off the charts because of Henry Ford while the Big Four motor companies eventually emerged. History does not repeat itself but it sure does rhyme almost all of the time.

[lovelomsak]

Being one of the few Canadians here and the neighbour of the US I have read news in my country that the lower oil price is a positive for the US and it is here for the long term. It devalues our dollar,because it is oil backed. The financial analysts say there is no light at the end of the tunnel at the present time and donot expect it any time soon. I am not sure if Russia is the reason the US is doing this or not. But it hurts more countries than just theirs. My standard of living is affected too.

[NeverSure]

We all know the West has sanctions on Russia and imports and exports are restricted there. This includes Russia getting equipment and parts for oil operations.

Not only that, Russia's oil supplies are dwindling while elsewhere supplies are ramping up. Russia is having to go to more difficult places such as the Arctic to look for oil. Its best days in the oil business are over regardless of world oil prices.

"Without visiting a well in Western Siberia, you would never realise just how hard it is to extract oil in Russia.

Two hours' drive from the nearest village of Salym, the snow banks are huge and the closest airport is over 300km (185 miles) away.

The temperature is down to -26C, but locals say winter temperatures normally drop to -40C, and Russia's oil industry has more serious challenges than the cold.

Oil prices are falling and the cost of extraction is rising as resources are becoming exhausted.

And then there are the Western sanctions imposed on oil companies as a result of Russia's actions in Ukraine."

(emphasis mine)

BBC

[Asiantravel]

Could the economic benefits now being enjoyed in USA eventually be offset by health problems in the future?

Fracking could be as damaging as thalidomide, tobacco and asbestos, government's Chief Scientific Adviser warns in new report

The technology has been developed to help oil companies extract gas trapped in shale rock but, the report fears, it could prove to be another innovation that takes society in the wrong direction.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/fracking-could-be-as-damaging-as-thalidomide-tobacco-and-asbestos-governments-chief-scientific-adviser-warns-in-new-report-9891931.html

[dexterm]

Interesting item at http://www.marketwatch.com/story/opec-might-get-the-last-laugh-on-oil-2014-11-28

some of which has been stated above by other posters, but gives an insight into some of the possible power plays going on.

Wait for oil stocks to blip up one day according to your indicators, then set your affordable stop loss with some breathing space that you will definitely act upon in case it's a dead cat bounce, then sit back for the ride up if you are lucky.

Follow the price action...ride the trends; cut your losses quickly and ruthlessly.

Preserving your capital is everything; otherwise game over.

[NanLaew]

OPEC Policy Ensures U.S. Shale Crash, Russian Tycoon Says

Here's the opinion of a Russian 4 x billionaire.

"OPEC policy on crude production will ensure a crash in the U.S. shale industry, a Russian oil tycoon said.

The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries kept output targets unchanged at a meeting in Vienna today even after this year’s slump in the oil price caused by surging supply from U.S shale fields.

American producers risk becoming victims of their own success. At today’s prices of just over $70 a barrel, drilling is close to becoming unprofitable for some explorers, Leonid Fedun, vice president and board member at OAO Lukoil (LKOD), said in an interview in London..."

He reckons 2016 will be the watershed. I would say that depends on who blinks first.

The US? Putin?

More likely Venezuela and a few other OPEC members with less fat.

[konying]

Cannot see the forest for the trees. The low oil price simply turns out to be a bad PRIVATE investment and bad business decision for a few in the US. Prices at $ 70 to $ 75 per barrel are beyond devastating to Russia's entire economy and GDP. Months ago, I showed how $ 90 or $ 85 per barrel would drive Russian into a recession thereby causing a devaluing of currency and a further rise in interests rates. It is happening now and it is very, very bad.

The US will simply extract oil when the time and price is right, but it is not needed now. The point is, we have the reserves necessary to create independence and our entire economy is not predicated upon us mining and exporting oil at a given price.

Oil Enters New Era as OPEC Faces Off Against Shale; Who Blinks as Price Slides Toward $70? http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-27/oil-in-new-era-as-opec-refuses-to-yield-to-u-s-shale.html

This is from the article you yourself cite. The article also points out that the US is the new 'swing' energy producer of the world which puts it in a pretty good place.

Only about 4 percent of U.S. shale production needs $80 or more to be profitable, according to the Paris-based International Energy Agency. Most production in the Bakken formation, one of the main drivers of shale oil output, remains profitable at or below $42 a barrel, the IEA estimates. The agency expects U.S. supply to rise by almost 1 million barrels a day next year, with increasing flows to international markets.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-11-27/oil-in-new-era-as-opec-refuses-to-yield-to-u-s-shale.html

People who try their hardest to convince others the US economy and financial system are feeble and falling need to watch the world's deepest capital market to see the overall strength of the US economy in this face off with OPEC whose capital markets and technological capability are a fraction of what the US has and does.

Opec got seriously burned from its 1970s manipulations of oil prices and availability, losing out to the US strategies which were to reestablish lower oil prices and Opec hasn't ever recovered from its manipulations disaster. I'm going to find out today how to screw Opec in this and I'm going to start doing it.

Shale is now like the automobile builders were 100 years ago when there were a hundred small and struggling competitors. Almost all of 'em fell off the charts because of Henry Ford while the Big Four motor companies eventually emerged. History does not repeat itself but it sure does rhyme almost all of the time.

So in the usual Publicus patriotic words America knows best and is best.

Hence the reason for being in the largest debt in the world with no prospect of ever repaying it and printing money like lottery tickets and all of that backed with nothing but patriotic bravada.

Reminds me of Roman Empire, funny how history has a way of repeating itself.

[konying]

We all know the West has sanctions on Russia and imports and exports are restricted there. This includes Russia getting equipment and parts for oil operations.

Not only that, Russia's oil supplies are dwindling while elsewhere supplies are ramping up. Russia is having to go to more difficult places such as the Arctic to look for oil. Its best days in the oil business are over regardless of world oil prices.

"Without visiting a well in Western Siberia, you would never realise just how hard it is to extract oil in Russia.

Two hours' drive from the nearest village of Salym, the snow banks are huge and the closest airport is over 300km (185 miles) away.

The temperature is down to -26C, but locals say winter temperatures normally drop to -40C, and Russia's oil industry has more serious challenges than the cold.

Oil prices are falling and the cost of extraction is rising as resources are becoming exhausted.

And then there are the Western sanctions imposed on oil companies as a result of Russia's actions in Ukraine."

(emphasis mine)

BBC

Firstly private business are as usual, according to NASA since NASA is the one needing Russian made engines, otherwise locally made ones fall from the sky before even reaching the clouds.

Secondly Russia is pretty capable of producing its own, as they have been around for a while

Thirdly, if you read NOT only US propaganda but other sources, you may find a number of EU countries starting to realize they have been played by US and forced into something which not only does not benefit them but costs them money.

You may find a number of EU companies would ignore all sanctions and continue doing business with Russia.

i am more than 100% certain cost of production is much cheaper for Russian than for America, just wages alone is a nice chunk.

Earlier someone said only private companies in US may suffer, well not so simple, a domino effect comes to mind.

Less taxes, more bankruptcies, unemployment etc, you get the picture.

The question is would US government step in to bail oil companies out? and if it does with what money?

[NanLaew]

....

The question is would US government step in to bail oil companies out? and if it does with what money?

Is that a serious question?

With the same money it used to bail out the 'too big to fail' banks. Same source as the UK bank bailout for that matter.

Foisting debt on the populace is a given right of government regardless of the political doctrine in play. What one hand giveth, the other hand taketh away. Obama and the EU talking heads make very public 'We feel your pain' statements as they plunder your wallet. Putin just mugs you in broad daylight and takes the whole wallet.

[konying]

....

The question is would US government step in to bail oil companies out? and if it does with what money?

Is that a serious question?

With the same money it used to bail out the 'too big to fail' banks. Same source as the UK bank bailout for that matter.

Foisting debt on the populace is a given right of government regardless of the political doctrine in play. What one hand giveth, the other hand taketh away. Obama and the EU talking heads make very public 'We feel your pain' statements as they plunder your wallet. Putin just mugs you in broad daylight and takes the whole wallet.

Do not know if to laugh or cry at your ignorance.

Putin "mugs" flat 15% personal tax, remind me again how much tax is charged for US or UK citizens?

And you do realize baling out an oil company with this kind of prices will take a little more than a few days money printing.

Bu then again, whats another trillion? after all no one has any intentions to repay it.

[Publicus]

So in the usual Publicus patriotic words America knows best and is best.

Hence the reason for being in the largest debt in the world with no prospect of ever repaying it and printing money like lottery tickets and all of that backed with nothing but patriotic bravada.

Reminds me of Roman Empire, funny how history has a way of repeating itself.

If the USGovernment is in fact presently approximating 1 billion oz of gold and it revalues the dollar to $3000 oz, which is the scuttlebut in circulation, then its gold reserves will be valued at $3 Trillion, or half of the public sector debt which is the real debt factor. Your Roman Empire would then be newly secured, but the Roman Empire the US is not because history is history, which means we have electricity to name one modern invention and development the Empire did not have.

While revaluation based on gold is not the gold standard, it does provide a concrete basis of a currency and of debt to include stealing the thunder from cranks who keep cheering on their apocalypse and it pulls the rug out from under them besides.

I discussed the analogy of the shale producers and the auto manufacturers of a hundred years ago which some people here seem to have missed or chosen to ignore due to its inconvenience to their flawed theories and paradigm. That is, regardless of the price of oil or energy in general, a number of startup shale ventures will inevitably go bust, which is to say most of them. It's the natural order of things. Do try to keep up on these things thx.

....

The question is would US government step in to bail oil companies out? and if it does with what money?

Is that a serious question?

With the same money it used to bail out the 'too big to fail' banks. Same source as the UK bank bailout for that matter.

Foisting debt on the populace is a given right of government regardless of the political doctrine in play. What one hand giveth, the other hand taketh away. Obama and the EU talking heads make very public 'We feel your pain' statements as they plunder your wallet. Putin just mugs you in broad daylight and takes the whole wallet.

Do not know if to laugh or cry at your ignorance.

Putin "mugs" flat 15% personal tax, remind me again how much tax is charged for US or UK citizens?

And you do realize baling out an oil company with this kind of prices will take a little more than a few days money printing.

Bu then again, whats another trillion? after all no one has any intentions to repay it.

Half of Americans pay no personal income tax, which is a feat and a luxury Russia cannot afford and which moreover would never occur to the Russian oligarchs to be a good public policy.

As i mentioned again above, no bailing out will be necessary, desired or acceptable. A good number of the shale startups are destined to fail and everyone from the shale industry to students in school know it. But not everyone in the world knows the fact however, which is not the fault of the US nor is it our responsibility to rectify. .

[F430murci]

Exercise in futility trying to discuss basic economic principles so perhaps it is just better to focus on the reality of what life is like. Russians are struggling and struggling bad. Read full article.

-------

And, right now, the Russian economy is exhibiting more than just a sniffle. Inflation is increasing, so is capital flight, while this year the rouble has lost a third of its value against the dollar.

The falling price of oil is a huge problem for the country, because the Russian economy is so dependent on energy exports. Western sanctions are playing a part, too, in all of this - they make it much harder for Russian banks to raise money on international financial markets.

But how is this affecting ordinary Russians? Well, at the Moscow motor show last month one visitor told me that, for the first time in a long time, he couldn't afford a new car - credit had become too expensive. He was only there, he said, to window shop.

. . .

Pensioner Alla Giorgievna tells me that because money's tight she's stopped buying new clothes and cosmetics.

. . .

And then I speak to Alexander. He's a builder. He complains that his salary is being eaten away by rising prices. But he doesn't know who to blame. He says he doesn't really think about it.

. . .

For now, Russians are not blaming their president for their current problems. President Putin's approval rating remains sky high.

http://m.bbc.com/news/magazine-30248999

[konying]

So in the usual Publicus patriotic words America knows best and is best.

Hence the reason for being in the largest debt in the world with no prospect of ever repaying it and printing money like lottery tickets and all of that backed with nothing but patriotic bravada.

Reminds me of Roman Empire, funny how history has a way of repeating itself.

If the USGovernment is in fact presently approximating 1 billion oz of gold and it revalues the dollar to $3000 oz, which is the scuttlebut in circulation, then its gold reserves will be valued at $3 Trillion, or half of the public sector debt which is the real debt factor. Your Roman Empire would then be newly secured, but the Roman Empire the US is not because history is history, which means we have electricity to name one modern invention and development the Empire did not have.

While revaluation based on gold is not the gold standard, it does provide a concrete basis of a currency and of debt to include stealing the thunder from cranks who keep cheering on their apocalypse and it pulls the rug out from under them besides.

I discussed the analogy of the shale producers and the auto manufacturers of a hundred years ago which some people here seem to have missed or chosen to ignore due to its inconvenience to their flawed theories and paradigm. That is, regardless of the price of oil or energy in general, a number of startup shale ventures will inevitably go bust, which is to say most of them. It's the natural order of things. Do try to keep up on these things thx.

Half of Americans pay no personal income tax, which is a feat and a luxury Russia cannot afford and which moreover would never occur to the Russian oligarchs to be a good public policy.

As i mentioned again above, no bailing out will be necessary, desired or acceptable. A good number of the shale startups are destined to fail and everyone from the shale industry to students in school know it. But not everyone in the world knows the fact however, which is not the fault of the US nor is it our responsibility to rectify. .

Yes that half is on food stamps, without medical and almost homeless and unemployed.

We should all stand and applaud US government achievements

And with all that wealth and ability to afford NOT to collect tax,the trillion's of dollars debt is just perfect indicator.

Hence the reason for demanding and bullying all banks across the world to report US citizens to a point that some banks in some countries now refuse to open bank accounts for US citizens

As the saying goes, God bless America

[NeverSure]

So in the usual Publicus patriotic words America knows best and is best.

Hence the reason for being in the largest debt in the world with no prospect of ever repaying it and printing money like lottery tickets and all of that backed with nothing but patriotic bravada.

Reminds me of Roman Empire, funny how history has a way of repeating itself.

The US has less debt as a ratio to GDP than the UK does.

It has far less than Japan or China do.

The US has vast natural resources to draw on.

What does the UK or Japan or China have?

[Naam]

This is killing Russia and it's deliberate. The US and Saudi are pumping all-out to drive the price down.

The world oil price is 1/2 what it was in 2009, and as recently as five months ago it was $106. Now it's $70.

Putin depends on oil to run his economy but neither the US or Saudi will be damaged by this.

This is "get even" for Syria and Ukraine without firing a shot.

The big mouth in Russia who thought oil riches would allow him to put the USSR back together by force if necessary has been cut off at the knees.

And yet the price at the pumps remain the same....

In Thailand prices of 91 and E20 have dropped 10% in the last week.

106 down to 70 is little more than 10%

it takes several weeks till the storage of expensive fuel is replaced by cheaper one.

[Naam]

So in the usual Publicus patriotic words America knows best and is best.

Hence the reason for being in the largest debt in the world with no prospect of ever repaying it and printing money like lottery tickets and all of that backed with nothing but patriotic bravada.

Reminds me of Roman Empire, funny how history has a way of repeating itself.

The US has less debt as a ratio to GDP than the UK does.

It has far less than Japan or China do.

The US has vast natural resources to draw on.

What does the UK or Japan or China have?

-debt service cannot be done with fictitious GDP numbers,

-to service debt revenue is required,

-the U.S. has clearly not the revenue to match its debt service.

evidence for the latter is the ballooning sovereign debt.

i apologise for replacing fiction with facts

[VegasVic]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

This is killing Russia and it's deliberate. The US and Saudi are pumping all-out to drive the price down.

The world oil price is 1/2 what it was in 2009, and as recently as five months ago it was $106. Now it's $70.

Putin depends on oil to run his economy but neither the US or Saudi will be damaged by this.

This is "get even" for Syria and Ukraine without firing a shot.

The big mouth in Russia who thought oil riches would allow him to put the USSR back together by force if necessary has been cut off at the knees.

Be careful this maybe aimed at sinking the US fracking industry. If you read outside of the msm you will know that in most fracking oil plays the production of the wells are falling much faster than projected. This means that the frackers must frack more and drill more wells which is capital intensive. When the oil price falls below $ 70 they will not be able to generate enough cash to maintain the capex and their production will slowly fade away, together with the American oil independence dream.

Here is an article about the effects of the low oil price.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-27/there-will-be-blood-petrodollar-death-means-liquidity-and-oil-exporting-crisis-deck

.

HH, NeverSure is correct, the fall in the price in oil is indeed orchestrated by the U.S. (with the help of the House of Saud and others) in order to put more pressure on Putin It seems to be working rather nicely, however they had better be careful just how far they push Vlad the imapaler since it is looking like a verrrry cold winter brewing for Russia I realize that the business channels say publicly that the fracking business cannot sustain a drop below $70/bbl, however knowing people in this business both in the Marcellus and Bakken Shale fields I can tell you that they still make a profit under $70/bbl. Wish as you might, but the U.S. will be a net exporter of petroleum products within the next 5 years and should a Republican get back in the White House in 2016 (very likely) then the west side of the Rockies will be wide open for development as well as the Arctic wildlife refuge and more offshore permits too The estimates of U.S. petroleum reserves rise every year as more potential fields open and technology improves, currently the estimates are for a 200 year reserve excluding coal, when coal is figured in you double that estimate! This drop in oil price will not last forever so enjoy it while you can, and if you are smart then you can make some very nice coin on the bounce back

[VegasVic]

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So in the usual Publicus patriotic words America knows best and is best.

Hence the reason for being in the largest debt in the world with no prospect of ever repaying it and printing money like lottery tickets and all of that backed with nothing but patriotic bravada.

Reminds me of Roman Empire, funny how history has a way of repeating itself.

The US has less debt as a ratio to GDP than the UK does.

It has far less than Japan or China do.

The US has vast natural resources to draw on.

What does the UK or Japan or China have?

-debt service cannot be done with fictitious GDP numbers,

-to service debt revenue is required,

-the U.S. has clearly not the revenue to match its debt service.

evidence for the latter is the ballooning sovereign debt.

i apologise for replacing fiction with facts alt=wai2.gif width=20 height=20>

You are both correct, GDP to Debt ratio does matter and it is an internationally accepted way to see which countries are in the worst condition, of course with that said the debt must reduced in the U.S. and will through a new wave a fiscal conservatisim and becoming a net exporter of energy over the next few years Like it or not the worlds two military superpowers (U.S. A. and the Russian Federation) ironically have the worlds largest petroleum resources and freshwater supplies, while the Russian Federation is not an economic superpower like the U.S. it can be self sufficient if need be, although any large crop failure could make it tough for Russia

[Pakboong]

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This is killing Russia and it's deliberate. The US and Saudi are pumping all-out to drive the price down.

The world oil price is 1/2 what it was in 2009, and as recently as five months ago it was $106. Now it's $70.

Putin depends on oil to run his economy but neither the US or Saudi will be damaged by this.

This is "get even" for Syria and Ukraine without firing a shot.

The big mouth in Russia who thought oil riches would allow him to put the USSR back together by force if necessary has been cut off at the knees.

Be careful this maybe aimed at sinking the US fracking industry. If you read outside of the msm you will know that in most fracking oil plays the production of the wells are falling much faster than projected. This means that the frackers must frack more and drill more wells which is capital intensive. When the oil price falls below $ 70 they will not be able to generate enough cash to maintain the capex and their production will slowly fade away, together with the American oil independence dream.

Here is an article about the effects of the low oil price.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-27/there-will-be-blood-petrodollar-death-means-liquidity-and-oil-exporting-crisis-deck

.

HH, NeverSure is correct, the fall in the price in oil is indeed orchestrated by the U.S. (with the help of the House of Saud and others) in order to put more pressure on Putin It seems to be working rather nicely, however they had better be careful just how far they push Vlad the imapaler since it is looking like a verrrry cold winter brewing for Russia I realize that the business channels say publicly that the fracking business cannot sustain a drop below $70/bbl, however knowing people in this business both in the Marcellus and Bakken Shale fields I can tell you that they still make a profit under $70/bbl. Wish as you might, but the U.S. will be a net exporter of petroleum products within the next 5 years and should a Republican get back in the White House in 2016 (very likely) then the west side of the Rockies will be wide open for development as well as the Arctic wildlife refuge and more offshore permits too The estimates of U.S. petroleum reserves rise every year as more potential fields open and technology improves, currently the estimates are for a 200 year reserve excluding coal, when coal is figured in you double that estimate! This drop in oil price will not last forever so enjoy it while you can, and if you are smart then you can make some very nice coin on the bounce back

The drop in oil prices are way over Obama's head. With new oil owners in South Sudan as well as the Saudis being able to produce oil at $30, there are big players involved. America, with all its natural resources, is not the biggest player in this game.

[F430murci]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

This is killing Russia and it's deliberate. The US and Saudi are pumping all-out to drive the price down.

The world oil price is 1/2 what it was in 2009, and as recently as five months ago it was $106. Now it's $70.

Putin depends on oil to run his economy but neither the US or Saudi will be damaged by this.

This is "get even" for Syria and Ukraine without firing a shot.

The big mouth in Russia who thought oil riches would allow him to put the USSR back together by force if necessary has been cut off at the knees.

Be careful this maybe aimed at sinking the US fracking industry. If you read outside of the msm you will know that in most fracking oil plays the production of the wells are falling much faster than projected. This means that the frackers must frack more and drill more wells which is capital intensive. When the oil price falls below $ 70 they will not be able to generate enough cash to maintain the capex and their production will slowly fade away, together with the American oil independence dream.

Here is an article about the effects of the low oil price.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-11-27/there-will-be-blood-petrodollar-death-means-liquidity-and-oil-exporting-crisis-deck

.

HH, NeverSure is correct, the fall in the price in oil is indeed orchestrated by the U.S. (with the help of the House of Saud and others) in order to put more pressure on Putin It seems to be working rather nicely, however they had better be careful just how far they push Vlad the imapaler since it is looking like a verrrry cold winter brewing for Russia I realize that the business channels say publicly that the fracking business cannot sustain a drop below $70/bbl, however knowing people in this business both in the Marcellus and Bakken Shale fields I can tell you that they still make a profit under $70/bbl. Wish as you might, but the U.S. will be a net exporter of petroleum products within the next 5 years and should a Republican get back in the White House in 2016 (very likely) then the west side of the Rockies will be wide open for development as well as the Arctic wildlife refuge and more offshore permits too The estimates of U.S. petroleum reserves rise every year as more potential fields open and technology improves, currently the estimates are for a 200 year reserve excluding coal, when coal is figured in you double that estimate! This drop in oil price will not last forever so enjoy it while you can, and if you are smart then you can make some very nice coin on the bounce back

The drop in oil prices are way over Obama's head. With new oil owners in South Sudan as well as the Saudis being able to produce oil at $30, there are big players involved. America, with all its natural resources, is not the biggest player in this game.

The reality is, it does not matter if oil is $30 or $120 a barrell. US will be fine, but I sure do like the lower costs. Will increase profits, dividends and reduce CPI. All good for me. You guys can try and find the negative in anything and it is a bit laughable, laughifble in US laughing all the way to the bank. Give it up. Move on. Focus on yourself. US ain't going down the tubes.

[Loptr]

If the USGovernment is in fact presently approximating 1 billion oz of gold and it revalues the dollar to $3000 oz, which is the scuttlebut in circulation, then its gold reserves will be valued at $3 Trillion, or half of the public sector debt which is the real debt factor. Your Roman Empire would then be newly secured, but the Roman Empire the US is not because history is history, which means we have electricity to name one modern invention and development the Empire did not have.

While revaluation based on gold is not the gold standard, it does provide a concrete basis of a currency and of debt to include stealing the thunder from cranks who keep cheering on their apocalypse and it pulls the rug out from under them besides.

I discussed the analogy of the shale producers and the auto manufacturers of a hundred years ago which some people here seem to have missed or chosen to ignore due to its inconvenience to their flawed theories and paradigm. That is, regardless of the price of oil or energy in general, a number of startup shale ventures will inevitably go bust, which is to say most of them. It's the natural order of things. Do try to keep up on these things thx.

Is that a serious question?

With the same money it used to bail out the 'too big to fail' banks. Same source as the UK bank bailout for that matter.

Foisting debt on the populace is a given right of government regardless of the political doctrine in play. What one hand giveth, the other hand taketh away. Obama and the EU talking heads make very public 'We feel your pain' statements as they plunder your wallet. Putin just mugs you in broad daylight and takes the whole wallet.

Do not know if to laugh or cry at your ignorance.

Putin "mugs" flat 15% personal tax, remind me again how much tax is charged for US or UK citizens?

And you do realize baling out an oil company with this kind of prices will take a little more than a few days money printing.

Bu then again, whats another trillion? after all no one has any intentions to repay it.

Half of Americans pay no personal income tax, which is a feat and a luxury Russia cannot afford and which moreover would never occur to the Russian oligarchs to be a good public policy.

As i mentioned again above, no bailing out will be necessary, desired or acceptable. A good number of the shale startups are destined to fail and everyone from the shale industry to students in school know it. But not everyone in the world knows the fact however, which is not the fault of the US nor is it our responsibility to rectify. .

I agree with you that there will soon be a reset in the price of gold and silver, but I do not believe the US will benefit from it... To benefit from the reset, you must first be holding the commodity...

The same scuttlebutt and analysis from investors such as Eric Sprott state that the US no longer has gold reserves of any significance, sans the 6,000+ tonnes held at the Fed in NYC, which doesn't belong to the Fed, but is re-hypothecated "synthetic" gold belonging to others, such as Germany... The Dutch just withdrew 122 tonnes from the Fed, yet the Germans eventually gave up having their bullion repatriated... Now the French as making noise that they want their gold back too, ironically much like they did in 1971... The US cannot benefit from the reset in gold prices because it is the western banking cabal suppressing the price in the first place...

As per Sprott, global gold demand has exceeded supply for the last decade while the Comex and JPM manipulate the markets lower with naked paper shorts... This is to drive out the weak hands and to free up supply at lower prices because they know if anyone demands delivery on a sizable futures contract then the game is over... Some are predicting this event as early as next month in the silver market...

The reset in gold and silver is already taking place in the east and is de-coupling from the paper market by the west... India just lifted all importation regulations on gold also, only exacerbating supplies...

Edited November 30, 2014 by Loptr