Palestinian woman stabs Israeli, shot by security forces

[konying]

No links as per usual to your second myth that Zionists made the empty desert bloom...the area that was the cradle of civilization and the land bridge between Asia, Africa and Europe had only a handful of people who couldn't feed themselves until the saviour Zionists came along, the ones who now uproot Palestinian olive groves and orchards for illegal Zionist colonist housing estates. That myth is very extensively debunked here. Well worth a read http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story665.html

In reality, leaders (even Gadaffi, of all people) in places like Egypt and Libya, openly acknowledged that the Israelis had managed to make the desert bloom, and were themselves inspired to begin similar projects in their own nations. Over in Libya, Gadaffi even wanted to surpass them. In Egypt, go to the Western Desert oases for example and you will see such projects under way right now. It has not been a total sucess yet and things are on a far smaller scale, but the concept is there and everyone knows where it came from. Acknowledging that the desert was made to bloom does not mean to say that the area was a total dustbowl of famine prior to the arrival of Zionists. To suggest so would be wrong, because places like Gaza were always fertile. The Zionists brought skills that cultivated areas that were previously considered hopeless, and to deny that they managed this is pointless. Today, Israel continues to excell in the kind of technology that makes agriculture possible in extreme arid environments and it is consulted on this from far and wide. The same goes for its pioneering tapping of solar power.

Here you broach a subject that may have a very big part in Israel's drive for more settlements. To "make the desert bloom" you need water.

Where do they put the settlements? Wherever there is water. Israel is selectively gaining control of all the aquifers, leaving the Palesrinians with dire water shortages everywhere.

It's not a case of admirable work ethic, advanced technology etc that makes the desert bloom, it's the criminal stealing and control of natural water supplies.

"...Under international law and as the occupying power, Israel holds the primary responsibility for the

welfare of the Palestinians. Yet discriminatory Israeli policies and practices routinely deny Palestinians

their right to water and sanitation. The right to water and sanitation, and the right for a people to make use

of their natural wealth are human rights under international law that Israel has ratified, e.g..... "

http://www.cjpmo.org/DisplayDocument.aspx?DocumentID=1001

Define occupation, or do i need to embarrass you again?

[Seastallion]

No links as per usual to your second myth that Zionists made the empty desert bloom...the area that was the cradle of civilization and the land bridge between Asia, Africa and Europe had only a handful of people who couldn't feed themselves until the saviour Zionists came along, the ones who now uproot Palestinian olive groves and orchards for illegal Zionist colonist housing estates. That myth is very extensively debunked here. Well worth a read http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story665.html

In reality, leaders (even Gadaffi, of all people) in places like Egypt and Libya, openly acknowledged that the Israelis had managed to make the desert bloom, and were themselves inspired to begin similar projects in their own nations. Over in Libya, Gadaffi even wanted to surpass them. In Egypt, go to the Western Desert oases for example and you will see such projects under way right now. It has not been a total sucess yet and things are on a far smaller scale, but the concept is there and everyone knows where it came from. Acknowledging that the desert was made to bloom does not mean to say that the area was a total dustbowl of famine prior to the arrival of Zionists. To suggest so would be wrong, because places like Gaza were always fertile. The Zionists brought skills that cultivated areas that were previously considered hopeless, and to deny that they managed this is pointless. Today, Israel continues to excell in the kind of technology that makes agriculture possible in extreme arid environments and it is consulted on this from far and wide. The same goes for its pioneering tapping of solar power.

Here you broach a subject that may have a very big part in Israel's drive for more settlements. To "make the desert bloom" you need water.

Where do they put the settlements? Wherever there is water. Israel is selectively gaining control of all the aquifers, leaving the Palesrinians with dire water shortages everywhere.

It's not a case of admirable work ethic, advanced technology etc that makes the desert bloom, it's the criminal stealing and control of natural water supplies.

"...Under international law and as the occupying power, Israel holds the primary responsibility for the

welfare of the Palestinians. Yet discriminatory Israeli policies and practices routinely deny Palestinians

their right to water and sanitation. The right to water and sanitation, and the right for a people to make use

of their natural wealth are human rights under international law that Israel has ratified, e.g..... "

http://www.cjpmo.org/DisplayDocument.aspx?DocumentID=1001

Define occupation, or do i need to embarrass you again?

You have never embarrassed me. You don't have the intellect to refute me on anything.

As I said last time on this matter, you are no longer arguing with me on the definition, but with the UN. Short memory?

You also completely missed the point that this report is not talking about Gaza alone, Gaza being the occupied area that you disputed.

[Ulysses G.]

You don't have the intellect to refute me on anything.

You are overestimating your own intellect and your own spin.

[konying]

You have never embarrassed me. You don't have the intellect to refute me on anything.

As I said last time on this matter, you are no longer arguing with me on the definition, but with the UN. Short memory?

You also completely missed the point that this report is not talking about Gaza alone, Gaza being the occupied area that you disputed.

So thats a yes to being embarrassed once again , speaking of intellect or in your case lack there of.

In case you want to bring up UN again, just a reminder since you failed to comprehend last time, UN also has Hamas who you whole kindheartedly support on terrorist list.

Since you struggle, Westbank is not occupied by definition and as such Israel owes nothing to Arabs, no matter how you twist the truth

The Hague Conventions definition of 1907 is the only legal definition of occupation.

Art. 42. Territory is considered occupied when it is actually placed under the authority of the hostile army.

The occupation extends only to the territory where such authority has been established and can be exercised.

Edited December 3, 2014 by konying

[konying]

You don't have the intellect to refute me on anything.

You are overestimating your own intellect and your own spin.

You assuming he understands the meaning of intellect

[Pakboong]

You're a simpleton, you haven't done your homework have you.

It certainly seems like the only homework done is to read dishonest hate-sites that rely on fabricated history. It is easy to disprove with credible sources, but the usual suspects will start bleating about the "Jew controlled media", which is any source that does not push the conspiracy theories that they adhere to.

The hubris that allows you to pick the credible news sources based on your view of the truth is at the very heart of the disagreement. You believe in general that an Israeli news site is more credible than a Palestinian site but that is not always true and never has been. It is your version of the truth that is under attack.

[Ulysses G.]

Actually, in general, it is true that Israeli news sites are more credible than Palestinian sites, but I am not talking about Israeli media. I am taking about mainstream, international media and credible history books written by objective writers and journalists - the ones that some on your side have dismissed as "the Jew controlled media".
The posters I was referring to - and frankly it is pretty much every one of the Israel-bashers - get their spin from crazy revisionist hate-sites (or they make it up from thin air). Their claims are easily disproved and have been over and over again on this forum. One poster constantly posts credible links to "support" his conspiracy theories and made up history, but, if you follow the link, it either refutes his claims completely or has nothing to do with it.

Edited December 3, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[Scott]

A post violating fair use has been removed.

[thaibeachlovers]

Actually, in general, it is true that Israeli news sites are more credible than Palestinian sites, but I am not talking about Israeli media. I am taking about mainstream, international media and credible history books written by objective writers and journalists - the ones that some on your side have dismissed as "the Jew controlled media".

The posters I was referring to - and frankly it is pretty much every one of the Israel-bashers - get their spin from crazy revisionist hate-sites (or they make it up from thin air). Their claims are easily disproved and have been over and over again on this forum. One poster constantly posts credible links to "support" his conspiracy theories and made up history, but, if you follow the link, it either refutes his claims completely or has nothing to do with it.

I don't read any "hate" media on Israel. I just know that it is wrong to treat people like the IDF do. I didn't hear Israel politicians dispute the number of children killed by the IDF in Gaza.

[Morch]

Since 2001, Palestinian militants have launched thousands^{%5B1%5D%5B2%5D%5B3%5D%5B4%5D} of rocket and mortar attacks on Israel from the Gaza Strip as part of the continuing ArabIsraeli conflict. As of July 2014 the attacks have killed 28 people,^%5B5%5D and injured more than 1900 people, but their main effect is their creation of widespread psychological trauma and disruption of daily life among the Israeli populace.^%5B6%5D Medical studies in Sderot, the Israeli city closest to the Gaza Strip, have documented a post-traumatic stress disorder incidence among young children of almost 50%, as well as high rates of depression and miscarriage

Wikipedia

I guess there is a point to the rocket attacks then. If they can't win a head to head battle, make Israelis life a living hell till they negotiate in good faith.

They are making their own lives MUCH worse. Cutting off your nose to spite your face never works.

Living in Gaza couldn't be any worse. If I lived there I'd for sure be wanting to take revenge on the oppressors. All the Israeli blockade does is breed more resistance fighters.

The conditions imposed by the Israeli blockade certainly contribute to the hostility of the Gazan populace. That said, these predate the blockade by a long mile. The blockade might further fuel and sustain this attitude, but is not, by itself, the cause.

Additionally, the assertion that this is the blockade's only effect is incorrect. From a security point of view, it did change the nature, frequency and severity of terrorist attacks. There is very little doubt that removal of the blockade, without proper control measures would result in Hamas military build-up and renewal of attacks on Israel.

Two points often overlooked by advocates of "lift the blockade" - Generally speaking, it is the Hamas which refuses the implementation of control measures, and furthermore, Egypt enforces a very similar sort of blockade when it comes to its own border (may want to have a read about what is currently going on in Rafah).

[Morch]

You're a simpleton, you haven't done your homework have you.

It certainly seems like the only homework done is to read dishonest hate-sites that rely on fabricated history. It is easy to disprove with credible sources, but the usual suspects will start bleating about the "Jew controlled media", which is any source that does not push the conspiracy theories that they adhere to.

Ulysses G. I don't know if you're referring to me or the previous poster. But I've done my homework (partly in blood as I lived there for many years). Most people who comment haven't even been in the region and (in my opinion) seem to think Gazans are a downtrodden minority with some kind of claim on the land of Israel. The Arabs that were living there when Britain handed over the land to become Israel (again) were not forced to leave - and that's pretty well documented too. The ones that didn't believe the hype from Saudi and Syria that the Jews were going to eat their babies and stayed, have prospered. There's the best part of 2 million Arabs living and working in Israel. There are Arabs in the Knesset and the IDF. How many Israelis live in Gaza? I'm not going to continue just now as I'm tired of it all. The hatred from Gazans (of Hamas at least) that is supported & even applauded around the World sickens me. I just ask people to ask themselves two questions. 1) If Israel downed arms and destroyed all of their weaponry, what would happen to Israel from the likes of Hamas and it's neighbours?.2). If Hamas, Gaza, and Israel's neighbours downed arms and destroyed the weapons etc, what would happen to those countries (from Israel - not ISIL etc).

No one is asking Israel to destroy its weapons. They are asking that Israel withdraw from the land it is occupying and allow the Palestinians to have their own free country. All peoples want to live in a free country.

By all means build the wall on the 1948 border.

Israel only exists because the UN says it does, but that applies only to the 1948 border. It has no legal right to land outside the 1948 border, or at least I never heard that the UN changed the border since 1948.

There is no real chance Israel will ever withdraw to the 1948 borders. If an agreement could be reached on something that

resembles the 1967 border it would be considered a great success (in terms of diplomacy, that is).

Israel came about following a UN vote, true enough. It does not, however, owe its continued existence to the UN. Israel will

not effectively cease to exist even if the UN was to declare so.

If memory serves, no one took great pains to get Egypt and Jordan to clear out when they took over Palestinian lands after

1948. Not even the Palestinians themselves.

[Alwyn]

You're a simpleton, you haven't done your homework have you.

It certainly seems like the only homework done is to read dishonest hate-sites that rely on fabricated history. It is easy to disprove with credible sources, but the usual suspects will start bleating about the "Jew controlled media", which is any source that does not push the conspiracy theories that they adhere to.

The hubris that allows you to pick the credible news sources based on your view of the truth is at the very heart of the disagreement. You believe in general that an Israeli news site is more credible than a Palestinian site but that is not always true and never has been. It is your version of the truth that is under attack.

Much the same can be said of you but in reverse. Tell me one time when there was ever a Palestinian government for example? Tell me one time it's mentioned in the Bible. Do yourself a favour do a sensible bit of homework and stop looking at "palestiniansforever.com" Look at what other Arab leaders have to say about the history of the area for example

[Morch]

No links as per usual to your second myth that Zionists made the empty desert bloom...the area that was the cradle of civilization and the land bridge between Asia, Africa and Europe had only a handful of people who couldn't feed themselves until the saviour Zionists came along, the ones who now uproot Palestinian olive groves and orchards for illegal Zionist colonist housing estates. That myth is very extensively debunked here. Well worth a read http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story665.html

In reality, leaders (even Gadaffi, of all people) in places like Egypt and Libya, openly acknowledged that the Israelis had managed to make the desert bloom, and were themselves inspired to begin similar projects in their own nations. Over in Libya, Gadaffi even wanted to surpass them. In Egypt, go to the Western Desert oases for example and you will see such projects under way right now. It has not been a total sucess yet and things are on a far smaller scale, but the concept is there and everyone knows where it came from. Acknowledging that the desert was made to bloom does not mean to say that the area was a total dustbowl of famine prior to the arrival of Zionists. To suggest so would be wrong, because places like Gaza were always fertile. The Zionists brought skills that cultivated areas that were previously considered hopeless, and to deny that they managed this is pointless. Today, Israel continues to excell in the kind of technology that makes agriculture possible in extreme arid environments and it is consulted on this from far and wide. The same goes for its pioneering tapping of solar power.

Here you broach a subject that may have a very big part in Israel's drive for more settlements. To "make the desert bloom" you need water.

Where do they put the settlements? Wherever there is water. Israel is selectively gaining control of all the aquifers, leaving the Palesrinians with dire water shortages everywhere.

It's not a case of admirable work ethic, advanced technology etc that makes the desert bloom, it's the criminal stealing and control of natural water supplies.

"...Under international law and as the occupying power, Israel holds the primary responsibility for the

welfare of the Palestinians. Yet discriminatory Israeli policies and practices routinely deny Palestinians

their right to water and sanitation. The right to water and sanitation, and the right for a people to make use

of their natural wealth are human rights under international law that Israel has ratified, e.g..... "

http://www.cjpmo.org/DisplayDocument.aspx?DocumentID=1001

This being OT is not a good reason for mixing unrelated issues.

When talking about making the desert bloom and other superlatives, the meaning is usually to parts well within Israel, not in

the West Bank.

[Morch]

I guess there is a point to the rocket attacks then. If they can't win a head to head battle, make Israelis life a living hell till they negotiate in good faith.

They are making their own lives MUCH worse. Cutting off your nose to spite your face never works.

Living in Gaza couldn't be any worse. If I lived there I'd for sure be wanting to take revenge on the oppressors. All the Israeli blockade does is breed more resistance fighters.

There WAS NO BLOCKADE when Gaza was handed over the "resistance fighters" Hamas TERRORISTS caused it.

Living in Gaza could be much worse. There are luxury hotels and shopping malls and a major obesity problem.

That would depend on how one defines the blockade and mark its timeline.

There were Israeli restrictions on trade and travel in place which gradually culminated into the current blockade.