Epley Manoeuvre for vertigo....CM practitioner?

[cheeryble]

Hi

Grandma gets vertigo, it is obviously quite distressing, and often has to just lie down.

It's come back after a few months break.

So wehn I first learned about vertigo is often caused by carbonate particles in the inner ear getting displaced from their normal place and brushing against the balance sensory hairs I wondered if a person could go in some sort of rotating sling and be manoeuvred to get the particles back where they belong.

Voila I discovered it existed, the Epley Manoeuvre......very simple indeed.

So grandma complaining and groaning last night and this morning wife said we'll take her to hospital this afternoon.

So I mentioned the Epley Manoeuvre and it is on YouTube etc and looks quite easy to diagnose the ear and just do it.....a high success rate and drug free.

Wife is no mug.

She pointed out

1. Is it BPPV or something else like high BP? (sorry I don't know her BP)

2. If we do it and for instance she got worse we would never hear the end of it.

So perhaps we should take her to hospital anyway, but she's been before and they gave her pills.

Sorry I just asked no pills left so cannot identify.

IF repeat IF it's BPPV presumably they don't do the manoeuvre as they didn't last time, surprising as I read it's very efficacious and quick.

So wondering if we could put responsibility elsewhere and using a practitioner.

Is there one in CM?

Thanks.

[cheeryble]

ps just checked and grandma's temp is 36.2, BP is 122/58, pulse 81 so nothing bizarre there.

It turned out Mum gave Grandma a pill this morning which she herself had been prescribed a few months ago for dizziness (!) when she was sick.....I checked, saying you don't want to mask symptoms before a diagnosis......and its Dramamine.

Anyway Grandma is no longer groaning and mostly sleeping now so perhaps that's the Dramamine or not enough sleep last night.

Edited December 2, 2014 by cheeryble

[Issangeorge]

Cheeryble, none of my business, but been blessed with the name George, I'm curious. In a previous post you said you were 65, so your Grandma, must be over 100, for someone that age I think a BP of 122/58, is darn good, or perhaps this is your wife's GM, either way that's a healthy BP for any age.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Issangeorge

[cheeryble]

Yeah wife's grandma.

She's quite a case.

86, still goes up trees for which We always tell her off, and every weekend watche Muay Thai on TV gets totally into it, shouting support or condemnation.

[NativeSon360]

Yeah wife's grandma.

She's quite a case.

86, still goes up trees for which We always tell her off, and every weekend watche Muay Thai on TV gets totally into it, shouting support or condemnation.

If vertigo is Grandma's only health issue @ 86-years, then that ole girl's doing quite well, all things considered.

Cheers,

[cheeryble]

Vertigo can be very distressing though......and can cause falls.

But yeah generally she's kept very well works every day looking after her two rai garden morning to night.

[thaipod]

I was treated for vertico by a doctor at Chulalongkorn Memorial Hospital at the intersection of Silom and Rama4 where he used a manouver where you sit on the edge of a bed and with assistance lay down on your left with your head on the bed sit up and then lay down on your right do this several times for three to four day's . It cured me.

There is another doctor that uses this manouver at Vichaiyut Hospital Rama 6.

[cheeryble]

Thanks for that Thaipod.....sounds like it was the Epley Manoeuvre or similar.

Grandma was bad again this afternoon so wife and mum took her to Sarapee Hospital here near CM, a little local hospital.

I got back tonight and just checked the meds she was given.

One of them I think from my sailing days is Dramamine.

The other just Vit B1, 6 and 12.

I asked my wife to check the diagnosis written down......but it just said vertigo which really is the symptom.

I asked what the doc did.

Apparently he asked her what sort of feeling the dizziness was, making large circular motions.

Grandma said if she sits up quickly from lying down she flies off sideways.

He also asked her to follow his finger left and right and up to the nose.

I asked if he laid her down backwards or sat her up at any stage and was told no.

So he reassured her that it was not a very serious thing, and said it probably will come occasionally.....both probably true......and made the prescription.

So unfortunately I wasn't there to ask about BPPV, and given it can so often be cured easily, wonder what his reasoning was.

Edited December 2, 2014 by cheeryble

[papa al]

In the states, physiotherapists are trained in Epley maneuver, here dunno.

Or just learn how to do it yourself (internet) .

Cake.

[cheeryble]

Thanks Papa

Missus says quite rightly that simple as the Epley is it should be done by a third party in case of the unlikely event of worsening.....for whatever reason.....we would never hear the end of it.

Edited December 3, 2014 by cheeryble

[ammagic]

I was shown how to do the Epley manouver by an ent dr in Chiangmai but mention of doing more harm than good. I suffer with bppv myself & use it when needed. Works really well. Check it out on YouTube. Sorry - don't remember name of doctor

[cheeryble]

I was shown how to do the Epley manouver by an ent dr in Chiangmai but mention of doing more harm than good. I suffer with bppv myself & use it when needed. Works really well. Check it out on YouTube. Sorry - don't remember name of doctor

Sorry I don't quite understand your meaning

"was shown how to do the Epley manouver by an ent dr in Chiangmai but mention of doing more harm than good"

Grandma still staying in bed so I'm going to keep this open to see if there's an option.

[inbangkok]

I have lots of personal experience and lots of Dr. visits concerning this.......

There is no cure. There is the maneuver you are asking about and the pills were most likely Meclizine (simple motion sickness pills that only help relieve, not cure the condition). If it is unbearable, you can take medicine like Valium, Lorazepam, and Clonazepam (anti anxiety drugs).

If it gets to the point where life is unlivable, some Dr.'s will attempt "Vestibular Canal Plugging" via surgery. It is dangerous as it can leave you deaf and most Dr.'s wont even attempt it unless it is destroying your life.

Vertigo attacks generally become less severe, and occurs less often as time goes on. It is a horrible condition to deal with but as soon as you accept the reality that there is no cure, you can go from there.

[ammagic]

Sorry, I meant to say NO mention of any negative effects of the Epley manouvre. As soon as I feel a slight dizziness I do the EM. 30 seconds sitting straight (sitting on the edge of the bed - in the middle). Then letting my body fall to the left -30 seconds - sitting straight 30 seconds, falling to the right -30 seconds. Repeat quite a few times. The Dr told me I should do the EM off & on even when not dizzy to maintain the balance of fluid/crystals in the inner ear. I have thwarted many attacks of bppv using this method. Good luck!

[cheeryble]

I have lots of personal experience and lots of Dr. visits concerning this.......

There is no cure. There is the maneuver you are asking about and the pills were most likely Meclizine (simple motion sickness pills that only help relieve, not cure the condition). If it is unbearable, you can take medicine like Valium, Lorazepam, and Clonazepam (anti anxiety drugs).

If it gets to the point where life is unlivable, some Dr.'s will attempt "Vestibular Canal Plugging" via surgery. It is dangerous as it can leave you deaf and most Dr.'s wont even attempt it unless it is destroying your life.

Vertigo attacks generally become less severe, and occurs less often as time goes on. It is a horrible condition to deal with but as soon as you accept the reality that there is no cure, you can go from there.

Thankyou inbangkok

I presume the EM didn't work for you?......unfortunate as the success rates seem to be in the 80-90% area.

Nice to hear the condition often recedes with time which I didn't know.

It may have started when Grandma was knocked off her bike about three years ago I know it shook her head up.

[cheeryble]

Sorry, I meant to say NO mention of any negative effects of the Epley manouvre. As soon as I feel a slight dizziness I do the EM. 30 seconds sitting straight (sitting on the edge of the bed - in the middle). Then letting my body fall to the left -30 seconds - sitting straight 30 seconds, falling to the right -30 seconds. Repeat quite a few times. The Dr told me I should do the EM off & on even when not dizzy to maintain the balance of fluid/crystals in the inner ear. I have thwarted many attacks of bppv using this method. Good luck!

Sounds like you have some sort of success story there anmagic and interesting you were recommended prophylactic EM.

You'll probably understand that though it's simple to do EM the wife (who works in a hospital) or I may be silly to do it ourselves.

Even if she just happened to get worse later we may get the blame as Grandma can be a wee bit cantankerous.

Also interested if there's a rationale to the public hospital doctor not doing it, but with that in mind still interested to know of a practitioner in CM.

[inbangkok]

I have lots of personal experience and lots of Dr. visits concerning this.......

There is no cure. There is the maneuver you are asking about and the pills were most likely Meclizine (simple motion sickness pills that only help relieve, not cure the condition). If it is unbearable, you can take medicine like Valium, Lorazepam, and Clonazepam (anti anxiety drugs).

If it gets to the point where life is unlivable, some Dr.'s will attempt "Vestibular Canal Plugging" via surgery. It is dangerous as it can leave you deaf and most Dr.'s wont even attempt it unless it is destroying your life.

Vertigo attacks generally become less severe, and occurs less often as time goes on. It is a horrible condition to deal with but as soon as you accept the reality that there is no cure, you can go from there.

Thankyou inbangkok

I presume the EM didn't work for you?......unfortunate as the success rates seem to be in the 80-90% area.

Nice to hear the condition often recedes with time which I didn't know.

It may have started when Grandma was knocked off her bike about three years ago I know it shook her head up.

It works in the sense it can help relieve a vertigo attack, and lessen the symptoms . Unfortunately, it does not cure it and you may get another attack later that day, even if the vertigo subsides at the time of doing the maneuver. I had my first attack a about 9 years ago...... It was hell. I was having serious attacks non stop, all the time and it was seriously affecting life. The last time I had an attack was about 3 months ago and it was mild compared how they used to be. Before that attack, probably went about a year without one.

You may want to have grandma sleep on 2 pillows so the head is elevated a bit. Lots of people have success with this as the crystals seem more likely to start tumbling if the head is too flat while lying down.

Edited December 5, 2014 by inbangkok

[cheeryble]

You may want to have grandma sleep on 2 pillows so the head is elevated a bit. Lots of people have success with this as the crystals seem more likely to start tumbling if the head is too flat while lying down.

Thanks for the advice will pass it on.

Glad to hear you have been better lately.

Edited December 5, 2014 by cheeryble

[cheeryble]

Wife had the massage lady round today as I offered a treat massage for Grandma.

Well she arrived and was told by Grandma "mao hua" (dizzy) and she passed on the treat which surely she wouldn't have missed by choice.

So I would still like an Epley practitioner therefore I am bumping this.

Edited December 9, 2014 by cheeryble

[NancyL]

Maybe you should post in the Chiang Mai forum. I know at least three people in their 80s who have self diagnosed themselves as having Meniere's disease via Dr. Google (and been ignored by real doctors) when it seems that this may be more their problem.

[cheeryble]

Thanks Nancy you may be right.

In fact I thought of someone I'm going to go and ask Dr Luk left side of Changpuak Rd, I'll do that first.

Grandma seems to be doing better but my guess is it's only a matter of when not if it happens again.

[Sheryl]

I don't think you are going to find an Epley practitioner here.

The only way would be to do it yourself from online instructions (and it's not that simple). Not sure from what yo usay that randma will be on board with this, which she would have to be.

[inbangkok]

Wife had the massage lady round today as I offered a treat massage for Grandma.

Well she arrived and was told by Grandma "mao hua" (dizzy) and she passed on the treat which surely she wouldn't have missed by choice.

So I would still like an Epley practitioner therefore I am bumping this.

I have never even heard of an Epley practitioner....... Is this a common thing?

The maneuver is very simple and the only danger of it is if grandma has neck or spine problems, rotating the head on such a way could be a problem. However, all the Dr's I have seen concerning this condition have told me to do it myself, or have someone hold my head for support as I do it....... It is really quite simple.

[chubby]

Doesn't Thailand have ENTs , I would ask one of them.

Here is USA, there is one sequence to Diagnose BPPV, and the Epley to fix it. I've had doctors send people home telling them to do it so-and-so times/ day. I'd be concerned if one really has BPPV, of making it worse, and find some ENT, who knows about it, and does it frequently enough, myself.

Of course, there are differential diagnosis that are not BPPV, which should probably be ruled out as well, and it's probably mis-diagnosed.

[cheeryble]

Thanks Sheryl and Chubby and InBkk

Yes the Dr Luk I'm going to ask is an ENT guy who shares an evening clinic with his eye doc wife.

It's only a matter of actually getting to see them as their early evening hours are inconvenient for me and not so good for grandma I would think as she lives well out of town.

Only daytime opening is Saturday morning.

Both difficult to fit with wife who works herself in hospital. So I'll go for a quick chat myself first.

Again, whilst I take her BP and am willing to check symptoms and make suggestions, I won't do Epley myself much as I would normally be happy to as in the event of any future worsening wife and I would draw flak.

I like Grandma, but she's like that.

We weren't allowed to renovate the house with a new bathroom next to her room because she "knew someone who had that done and later got sick".

Edited December 15, 2014 by cheeryble

[ammagic]

From the description - sitting up & then feeling dizzy sounds exactly like bppv. There are so many good ent dr's in Chiangmai please go to one. Dramamine is useless, just makes one sleepy. The Epley maneuver

really works & can nip an attack of bppv in the bud

[inbangkok]

Thanks Sheryl and Chubby and InBkk

Yes the Dr Luk I'm going to ask is an ENT guy who shares an evening clinic with his eye doc wife.

It's only a matter of actually getting to see them as their early evening hours are inconvenient for me and not so good for grandma I would think as she lives well out of town.

Only daytime opening is Saturday morning.

Both difficult to fit with wife who works herself in hospital. So I'll go for a quick chat myself first.

Again, whilst I take her BP and am willing to check symptoms and make suggestions, I won't do Epley myself much as I would normally be happy to as in the event of any future worsening wife and I would draw flak.

I like Grandma, but she's like that.

We weren't allowed to renovate the house with a new bathroom next to her room because she "knew someone who had that done and later got sick".

Lol.... I totally understand now why you don't want to do it yourself......

With her logic.... If she gets worse..... Seems like you will be the one who definitely gets the blame.

[cheeryble]

Wife dropped by Dr Luk's with Mum for an ear problem where she "hears wind"......interestingly diagnosed as a tooth problem and to visit the dentist.

Then spoke of Grandma.

Wife couldn't recall the name Epley but spoke of some sort of manoeuvre to aid BPPV.

Wife tells me he said he could do it and to bring grandma in....so progress has been made. (Hope nothing lost in translation).

[rhodie]

On 12/16/2014 at 11:48 PM, cheeryble said:

Wife dropped by Dr Luk's with Mum for an ear problem where she "hears wind"......interestingly diagnosed as a tooth problem and to visit the dentist.

Then spoke of Grandma.

Wife couldn't recall the name Epley but spoke of some sort of manoeuvre to aid BPPV.

Wife tells me he said he could do it and to bring grandma in....so progress has been made. (Hope nothing lost in translation).

I know this is going back 6 years, but did you get anywhere with the Epley manoeuvre?