Has Thailand finally killed the golden goose?

[Time Traveller]

Does anyone have a clue how many Americans vacation in Thailand compared to Aussies and Europeans? I don't see that many when I'm there.

China's economy including exports is struggling. The Russian Ruble has crashed. Japan's economy is struggling.

I think it's currency values and economies that are doing at least some of this. Also, Thailand has become expensive. For people on a budget there are alternatives.

half of working Americans earn slave wage levels so international vacation are not within their means. The other half working get 1 week vacation a year. Having to spend 48 hours of that week in transit means they probably are interested in going somewhere closer to home. And who can blame them?

Edited December 5, 2014 by Time Traveller

[fey]

most people that prefer thailand are not going to last long in other places like vietnam and cambodia its pretty tame here compared to that so i dont believe that is whats happening i think you are just seeing some hype and finding it. when you have been here for awhile and start to get jaded things dont look rosy like at first and you see the negatives easier.

as for the hotels and bars i could care less really, never did care. seems like desperation for customers was always there, but fresh off the boat i saw it as friendlkness, now it looks more lkke desperation

[jollyman]

Games up I think

[mitsubishi]

I have been reading Thai Visa since 2004 and I can definitely say that the percentage of cheap charlies (going by postings here) seems to have risen substantially.

I don't know about that, the rise in prices in Thailand has sent most of them scurrying away to Cambodia.

[mitsubishi]

Games up I think

Could be, everyone thought India was THE place back in the day, but the westerners soon tired of that place and moved on to Thailand. Same same here as the westerners moved on again to other places around Thailand. It's nostalgic to think we all thought high interest rates on savings, easy visas and cheap living would last forever but it didn't. The ship sails and people leave for elsewhere.

Thailand's had its 25 years of tourist boom give or take. Now it's over to the other ASEAN countries for their turn in the sun. For the people who got in quick, did what they had to do and move on with their balls intact it was a breeze. For the masses who invested all that coin they'll have a fight on their hands to turn a profit or see their condo slowly crumble into dust...

[adammike]

From personal experience I can say Thailand is less expensive then Philippines and Indonesia, Vietnam and Cambodia I am sure are still less expensive but don't have the infrastructure that LOS has and with the baht dropping against the dollar I don't see it being getting anymore expensive.

However with all the negative publicity about corruption and the recent book that came out ranking LOS as very low on safety for tourists, I am sure a lot of people are staying home or find other destinations. I just left BKK and Nana was as dead as I have ever seen it. So either it is still early and the flocks will start arriving or else there is a serious economic down turn and it just isn't showing up on government's radar yet.

Either way it sucks for business owners and all those lovelies from ISAN might actually have to start dropping prices....

a high dollar is great if you get paid in dollars,the euro is well down against the dollar and that will make cambodia start to feel exspensive.The euro is not so bad against the baht but you need some to spend in the first place.

[Banzai99]

......12 years here.....and still not feeling welcome.......

some people just can't take a hint

[Tchooptip]

Thailand is under Marshall Law and under the control of an oppressive Military Junta.

The Police are out of control, backing the systematic scamming of visitors.

Are you going to plan your family holiday there?

oppressive Military Junta.

Please tell me what difference it makes in YOUR everyday's life? In mine nothing AT ALL !

[2fishin2]

what I don't understand is why people keep their prices for rent so high and have no bookings when another apartment in same block is fully booked all high season for less money?!

Answer:

The first apartment is owned by a Thai - the second apartment is owned by a non-Thai

So true....I live in a condo which is in the 50% occupancy rate. Rooms that are occupied are non thai owned thai owned are not. I have tried to negotiate lower rent and met the typical attitude of high rent. A large room here typically rents 15000 month. I met a thai owner that finally gets it 9500 for large room. Im moving.

But this attitude is mainly prevalent in farang areas.

[timendres]

Thailand is under Marshall Law and under the control of an oppressive Military Junta.

The Police are out of control, backing the systematic scamming of visitors.

Are you going to plan your family holiday there?

Absolutely a great time to visit!

I've never felt safer here.

My experiences says your observations are well wide of the Mark!

I don't disagree with your personal experience. My only complaint is the early closing of some of my favorite venues. But most westerners, and thus tourists, see only what the western media reports. And that media is renowned for slanting reality and sensationalizing for an audience that responds to little else. Hence the reason why my family and friends all think I am in the middle of a civil war with bullets flying past my head as I scramble down the street to find scraps of food.

[Ned]

It's a lot more expensive here nowadays. Wages in most places haven't kept up. People everywhere don't have the cash......borrowed or otherwise. A lot of people holidaying closer to home if at all.

A late twenties, or late thirties feel to the planet nowadays.

[fey]

I have been reading Thai Visa since 2004 and I can definitely say that the percentage of cheap charlies (going by postings here) seems to have risen substantially.

I don't know about that, the rise in prices in Thailand has sent most of them scurrying away to Cambodia.

food is actually more expensive in cambodia

[LawrenceChee]

I agree in Cambodia now and I don't think the food options is as clean or readily available as in Thailand

Happy to be back in swampy tomorrow

[NeverSure]

Does anyone have a clue how many Americans vacation in Thailand compared to Aussies and Europeans? I don't see that many when I'm there.

China's economy including exports is struggling. The Russian Ruble has crashed. Japan's economy is struggling.

I think it's currency values and economies that are doing at least some of this. Also, Thailand has become expensive. For people on a budget there are alternatives.

I am an American and I agree there are far fewer Americans in Thailand ( tourist) than Aussies or Europeans in Thailand.

I have lived here for years now, but before that, I visited a couple of times a year.

The reason that there are so few American tourist here is the distance!

With layovers, it can easily take 20 hours to fly here from California, and many Americans need to travel to California before leaving from there.

It once took me 36 hours to fly back to California due to plane problems in both Bangkok and Taipei...not a pleasant trip!

Being pretty tall, as many Americans are, long flights are torture.

There are many great vacation destinations without all the bad publicity that are, much closer to the U.S.

No matter what happens to the exchange rate of Baht to USD, I would not expect to see a noticeable increase in American tourist in Thailand.

Most Americans get 2 weeks holiday.

For my old classmates, a dream vacation of a lifetime might be visiting California or Florida.

Overseas travel doesn't even cross their minds.

Low level American employees get 2 weeks. Senior management can get 5 or more. People who are self employed or retired make their own rules.

I was mostly thinking that I don't see a representative number of American expats considering that the population of America is 5x that of the UK and 15x that of Australia.

[Major4608]

Visiting Thailand in February for a few weeks. Because of the time to get to Thailand (about 27 hours from the US) and our age, I don't know how many more trips we'll be making to Thailand. The recent negative press in Thailand isn't helping either. We have now been venturing to other areas that are closer to home, but Thailand will always have a special place in my heart.

[MJP]

Visiting Thailand in February for a few weeks. Because of the time to get to Thailand (about 27 hours from the US) and our age, I don't know how many more trips we'll be making to Thailand. The recent negative press in Thailand isn't helping either. We have now been venturing to other areas that are closer to home, but Thailand will always have a special place in my heart.

Yup, I've mentioned demographics and economic groups.

The boomer generation, those with the final salary pension schemes and most of the money are ageing. Thailand is a long flight from the likes of, well, anywhere to be frank and it's just too much.

With so much to see and do within easy reach, I know that if it wasn't for having to visit the kids and sort all the carnage over there out I'd be heading into Europe more often instead. The flight from London to Bangkok does me in even now.

[baboon]

Visiting Thailand in February for a few weeks. Because of the time to get to Thailand (about 27 hours from the US) and our age, I don't know how many more trips we'll be making to Thailand. The recent negative press in Thailand isn't helping either. We have now been venturing to other areas that are closer to home, but Thailand will always have a special place in my heart.

Yup, I've mentioned demographics and economic groups.

The boomer generation, those with the final salary pension schemes and most of the money are ageing. Thailand is a long flight from the likes of, well, anywhere to be frank and it's just too much.

With so much to see and do within easy reach, I know that if it wasn't for having to visit the kids and sort all the carnage over there out I'd be heading into Europe more often instead. The flight from London to Bangkok does me in even now.

That flight does everyone in! I flew back BA last time and one of the cabin crew was on the same flight as me from Heathrow to Newcastle. She told me that even for the seasoned crew, it had been a mammoth test of endurance and that they were tired and p1ssed off too, even though none of the passengers had been rude or particularly demanding.

It isn't just us..

[CarlTyson]

Everyday, I go to Google News and search 'Thailand.'

The local press isn't covering the oppression. Imagine that.

The Bangkok Pundit?

He was reliable and would skirt around the sensitive issues but would lead you to the good stuff.

He took allot of shots at The Nation and pointed out their unethical journalism practices.

Voluntarily took his site down last week when the news stories just got too hot.

Yes the local papers have always printed 'nonsense' but it's got to the point now when it's a couple of pages of local 'celeb' fluff and the rest is made up of ads.

Even the BP isn't worth a glance these days and the fact that Voranai disappeared immediately the junta seized power speaks volumes.

Nothing to do with the coup; a TV member a few months ago said Voranai emailed him to say that BP had cancelled his contract as he had become editor in chief of GQ Thailand.

Kong Rithdee is very much against the coup, yet his comments are published in BP every Saturday.

Bangkok Pundit closed shop last week.

Any journalist in Thailand knows, if you want to stay healthy, ignore the facts.

The Nation will continue......

[MJP]

Visiting Thailand in February for a few weeks. Because of the time to get to Thailand (about 27 hours from the US) and our age, I don't know how many more trips we'll be making to Thailand. The recent negative press in Thailand isn't helping either. We have now been venturing to other areas that are closer to home, but Thailand will always have a special place in my heart.

Yup, I've mentioned demographics and economic groups.

The boomer generation, those with the final salary pension schemes and most of the money are ageing. Thailand is a long flight from the likes of, well, anywhere to be frank and it's just too much.

With so much to see and do within easy reach, I know that if it wasn't for having to visit the kids and sort all the carnage over there out I'd be heading into Europe more often instead. The flight from London to Bangkok does me in even now.

That flight does everyone in! I flew back BA last time and one of the cabin crew was on the same flight as me from Heathrow to Newcastle. She told me that even for the seasoned crew, it had been a mammoth test of endurance and that they were tired and p1ssed off too, even though none of the passengers had been rude or particularly demanding.

It isn't just us..

I'm thinking slow boat to China from now on. I'm okay if I've got a bed, a proper bog and a shower, then don't care how long it takes.

[baboon]

^^

Count me in. I am returning to the UK in January and am NOT looking forward to the journey...

[MrWorldwide]

I agree in Cambodia now and I don't think the food options is as clean or readily available as in Thailand

Happy to be back in swampy tomorrow

Makes you wonder how the average Khmer copes when prices in cities like Pnomh Penh and Siem Reap keep going up - they might not pay 'Barang' prices, but in terms of purchasing power most Barang would be in a much better position to handle price rises. Thanks for injecting a little reality into the old 'lets all run off to Cambo' fantasy - its a perennial here, and I briefly considered it, but its surprising how many things we take for granted in Thailand.

[masuk]

The goose has been upgraded.

Backpackers have been replaced by global companies managers.

Tourist and ED visas are peanuts compared to what Chevron, BP, Coca Cola are paying to have their operating offices in BKK

It seems to me that most Western countries do not breed turkey in such large numbers as the USA does.

Geese have always been in Europe, but I suspect marketing has had an influence and turkeys are gobbling their way in.

A great number of Thais have wished me a 'happy thanksgiving', and when I point out that it's purely a USA thing to thank the Indians who helped them survive their first winters, they are quite amazed.

[Kitsune]

The goose has been upgraded.

Backpackers have been replaced by global companies managers.

Tourist and ED visas are peanuts compared to what Chevron, BP, Coca Cola are paying to have their operating offices in BKK

It seems to me that most Western countries do not breed turkey in such large numbers as the USA does.

Geese have always been in Europe, but I suspect marketing has had an influence and turkeys are gobbling their way in.

A great number of Thais have wished me a 'happy thanksgiving', and when I point out that it's purely a USA thing to thank the Indians who helped them survive their first winters, they are quite amazed.

A turkey is not a goose.

Two very different birds.

Turkeys are lovable quiet animals that love to be hugged and pampered.

Geese are fierce aggressive and feisty, they attack humans and can be dangerous

[Shaunduhpostman]

The things people come here for are still here, so the goose is alive and squawking even if it as has pooped in its own nest.

If numbers are down its mostly due to the world economy and the fact that too many people have already visited Thailand at least once and gotten their fill. It's a long distance to come for trivial things like beaches and shopping. Bulgaria, Spain, Hawaii or Jamaica have beaches and/or shopping and are much closer and cheaper to travel to for most. For the exotic, exotic becomes ordinary very quickly and so many other destinations such as Bali, Brazil, Malaysia, Madagascar etc. may beckon.

So, while the numbers being down don't have anything to do with what Thailand has or hasn't done, it would probably be fair to say that all the bungling nonsense and numerous issues that are discussed daily in these forums don't exactly make the grade as tourist attractions. Some are put off second visits by trivial things such as bad service and minor rip offs continual attempts to be short changed, double charged, shoddy goods and tat etc. But if people have made up their mind they want to come here, coups, random piss takes by the coppers, a system that protects and excuses those who murder tourists is not going to completely put people off. Those elements may even add a nice edge of danger and adventure to all ones activities. Perhaps TAT should play that up, Intrepid Thailand, or something.

Residents and long time repeat tourists may have different feelings. Just taking Pattaya as an example, of which I'm sure there are many, in my own case, last year I thought that Pattaya's sewer system had a problem or something. It just smelled really bad everywhere I walked in that town, much worse than it normally does. Granted Pattaya has never been some kind of world class tourist destination that say Phuket may have been but I'm sorry, there was literally this steaming stench coming through the sewer grates everywhere. It would be a tall order to think you could get people here in position to anything about that to even acknowledge that such a probelme actually existed let alone get them to do anything about it. But the smell was overwhelming at times, far beyond any of the usual faint smells of quaintly polluted klongs wafting through the breeze and mingling with the smell of frangipani, pat kapow, and motorcycle exhaust we usually get. It didn't used to smell like a toilet all up and down Beach 1 and 2 Roads. To add to that all the usual unpleasantness of Pattaya, and now I find myself today feeling like I have no inclination to go back this year and am happy just to sit up in Isaan and enjoy somewhat fresher air and nicer people for the holidays. Just my case, but I am sure there are many like me, who will be put off for awhile, but at the end of the day all of that is negligible. Where people may never flock to Thailand as they once did, it is just the fact that the flocks have already been here, its nice a few times and thats it.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Shaunduhpostman

[konying]

Well, its December, high season. Saturday night, long weekend

23pm, driving down soi Buakhao-bars have 5-6 punters and these are the busy bars.

Action street bars-EMPTY

Soi Lengkee bars-EMPTY

Off to soi 7 and soi 8

Busy bars around 8 punters

Across the road to cheap charlie bars, around 5-6 punters ie empty.

Restaurants on Soi Lengkee-emty

LK Metro, People moving around, Hostess outside GoGo bars all looked bored, not sure how busy inside, but can not be too busy for them to look bored

[MaxYakov]

Thailand is under Marshall Law and under the control of an oppressive Military Junta.

The Police are out of control, backing the systematic scamming of visitors.

Are you going to plan your family holiday there?

which marshall are you referring to??

At least he didn't state it was under 'marital law'.

[ExPratt]

My mate has a 4fl 24 room hotel/apartment complex in Naklua 16/2. I booked a couple of rooms over Christmas new year and they are the last 2 he has. He mainly has regulars who stay there for months, German retiree's that sort of thing . When you look at many Hotel sites there are still plenty of Hotels with vacant rooms at a discount price which is not usual for the Christmas period. CNY may save them in late Feb but if the Chinese and Malaysians stop coming they are truly in troule

[masuk]

My Aussie friends and I refer to the smelly part of Pattya as something quite rude.

I agree. The stench is so bad.

[mat999]

It is cheaper to fly to Vietnam than Thailand from the UK. That doesn't really make sense as Vietnam is farther away. Anyway it helped us choose Vietnam this year for the family holiday. Last year we did Phuket which was enjoyable but way too overcrowded.

Maybe it would be for the best if tourist numbers drop; to improve attitudes, space on beaches and congestion. Obviously I feel bad for any establishment owners getting caught up in the decline, but Thailand utterly dominates the SEA tourism market and there are lots of other great options worth seeing too.

[LawrenceChee]

Honestly having visited Cambodia so many times here's my views on it

Pros

- the people here speak really good English and this goes from the hotel folks to tuk tuk and the regular people on the road and that makes mostly everything simple

- guest houses and cheap hotels are aplenty and lots of cheap liquor for those who drink

- tuk tuk are easily available in Phnom Penh and Siem Reap and most don't go over $2 even for long distances they have a good network and will find the place for you

- the people are really friendly and the girls here warm and smiley always

- The banking rates for those looking for a low risk fixed deposit can still find up to 7% for Uncle Sams dollars

Cons

- Cambodia is seriously dusty won't get you for a few days but everyday on that dust while you sit behind a tuk tuk will make you cry or buy a car

- the food is generally poor in taste and options once you leave the touristy areas and to live here long term thailand compares favorably for the quality of the food va the price paid

- there is a lack of entertainment here ...wifi is cheap and reliable in Cambodia but after the temples there is almost nothing to do unless you want to keep going to museums and war genocide sites

- supermarket carries a weaker selection compared to thailand

So for me thailand ka still the sweet spot and cambodia perfect for a short getaway and banking needs

Edited December 7, 2014 by LawrenceChee