So what's the average percent of foreigners who can really speak thai?

[thaichalina]

You guys that are living in Thai for a some time or have many farang friends,what's the average percent of those who can infact speak thai on a higher level with proper tone usage?(with higher level i mean basically to have enough knowledge for most of situations and have vocabulary of at least 5000 words+proper tone usage for each word).

I'm somewhere in intermediate level of thai language but in 7 years that i've been living here i've seen only 5-6 foreigners that could actually talk thai properly and could be understood perfectly by thai people.Makes me wonder if percent of those foreigners is between 1-5%?

[Costas2008]

3.7895425647%

[Nautilus05]

I can speak like a 3 year old.

I can confidently say I speak more Thai than most Thai people I meet can speak English, so I guess I have that going for me. I've noticed a lot of people are like myself though. We learn enough to get around and do anything we need in life, then get lazy, and stop learning. Once you hit a certain level in the language to have complete freedom in your life, and do anything you need, then I think many including myself stop learning.

Only exception is if I need to visit a veternarian, lawyer, etc. Then it can be a bit tough, because I don't know medical or law terminology in Thai. That, and talking over the phone is tough for me. In person is always better, because then you can make use of body language, facial expressions, etc.

[farangdude84]

I can communicate easily with Thais, talk about things I would in English (i.e. I don't discuss neurology in English, therefore have not [yet] learned such vocab in Thai). I'm able to read books written in a casual style. I'd put my Thai at around intermediate level, I guess. However, the number of foreigners who can do the following is likely quite low:

-read academic text

-understand rachasap

-fluently discuss technical problems

-give a speech using rhetorical thai

-speak with monks using ecclesiastical thai

-use idioms properly in everyday speech

-make puns

-read/write poetry

etc.

[yankee99]

I can communicate easily with Thais, talk about things I would in English (i.e. I don't discuss neurology in English, therefore have not [yet] learned such vocab in Thai). I'm able to read books written in a casual style. I'd put my Thai at around intermediate level, I guess. However, the number of foreigners who can do the following is likely quite low:

-read academic text

-understand rachasap

-fluently discuss technical problems

-give a speech using rhetorical thai

-speak with monks using ecclesiastical thai

-use idioms properly in everyday speech

-make puns

-read/write poetry

etc.

my guess is the number of thais that can do the above is quite low

[Baa_Mango]

why the stats? I know quite a lot of foreigners who have a good grasp of Thai, although I would say as far as random people go the number is quite low. Its not exactly rocket science, but it takes a real effort.

[brewsterbudgen]

In Bangkok, Pattaya and other tourist areas, I expect the % is low as there is little incentive to learn. After 10 years I can count, order food and deal with taxis. Oh, and chat up girls.

[Denim]

3.7895425647%

I know .7895425647 as well ! Small world. Have to say he can be a bit strange though , like he's not all there. He went down hill after his wife ( .2105 recurring ) left him. Go figure .

[Baa_Mango]

Little incentive to learn? jesus...เย็ดเข้ even if your the biggest scum bag sex pesting, drug abusing, liquor binging, degenerate of all time there is still huge advantages and pliable benefits to immersing yourself in the culture and language.

This defeatist attitude will just not do

[brewsterbudgen]

Little incentive to learn? jesus...เย็ดเข้ even if your the biggest scum bag sex pesting, drug abusing, liquor binging, degenerate of all time there is still huge advantages and pliable benefits to immersing yourself in the culture and language.

This defeatist attitude will just not do

If there was an easy way to learn I'd do it. But I work full-time and value my weekends and holidays. Plus in 10 years of living here I've never found having only very basic Thai a handicap.

[CaptHaddock]

In response to the OP's question about foreigners who can really speak Thai, my guess, and it's no more than a guess, is that the number of fully fluent foreigners is on the order of about 1000 individuals. I base that on an estimate given in the 70's by Edwin O. Reischauer, Prof. of Japanese History at Harvard and US ambassador to Japan, of the number of foreigners who could communicate effectively enough in Japanese which he put at 1000.

There are lots of differences: Japanese is harder to learn for English-speakers, Japan is a major trading partner while Thailand isn't, etc. It could possibly be several thousand, but not ten thousand.

[Baa_Mango]

Little incentive to learn? jesus...เย็ดเข้ even if your the biggest scum bag sex pesting, drug abusing, liquor binging, degenerate of all time there is still huge advantages and pliable benefits to immersing yourself in the culture and language.

This defeatist attitude will just not do

If there was an easy way to learn I'd do it. But I work full-time and value my weekends and holidays. Plus in 10 years of living here I've never found having only very basic Thai a handicap.

learn the alphabet and chip away at it . a language is not something you will get with hard work and cramming, its something you will build over time and consistency. Thailand is place that you can get by easy enough w/o learning but becomes that much more special and fun when you start to progress. I am still learning , and I think most people are as well.

[DA3NDORPHIN3]

i've lived in Germany and France and i must say that most of the foreigners who are living in those countries for a sometime(2,3+ year) can speak the language.Not fluently but definitely very well.I would even say 80+% of all foreigners that are living in those countries for a few years can speak the language.Been living in Thailand for 9 years,been all over the country,have a lot of friends and i saw probably less than 15 foreigners who actually have a good vocabulary with accurate tone pronunciation.I would say less than 10% of all foreigners can talk good thai.And probably less than 5% if you account only Bangkok and Pattaya.

Those 10% can feel somewhat special about their knowledge of thai language,just because they're so rare.Living in Germany/France or some other country there's nothing special about foreigners who can speak the language because that's very common occurrence.

But ofc thai language is so much harder to learn,especially the tones.You basically need to know each tone/long-short vowel for every word you know.And it's even worse when just a small percent of the people actually know english so it's impossible for someone to explain something properly.

Most of the people give up on learning thai after they get "survival thai language knowledge".

[CaptHaddock]

My Thai teacher who has taught approximately 1000 foreign students estimated that no more than 10 have become really fluent in Thai, to the point of reading, writing and understanding jokes.

So, a lot less than 1%.

[Roota]

There are lots of differences: Japanese is harder to learn for English-speakers

I grew up speaking Japanese alongside English so I can't judge, but I know a number of Westerners who have studied both Japanese and Thai to a fairly high level and most of them found Thai every bit as difficult as Japanese, just in different ways. Even near-native command of colloquial Thai is a serious achievement.

The answer to the OP's question depends entirely on how he wants to define 'really'. By my definition, I've met maybe 30 or 40 in almost that many years here, and most are old timers who came here when there was a lot more motivation to learn. Some come to think of it, 1,000 or so total is probably about as good a rough estimate as any. (Of course now in Japan the number is probably 10 to 100 times that.)

[farangdude84]

For a foreigner to achieve near-native fluency in any language is a heck of an achievement. It isn't knowledge of vocabulary and grammar structure that is the hard part - it's when language and culture meet. For instance, native speakers of any language will share a common knowledge and will be able to make references that the non-native may not catch. Anyone who can catch such references and use the L2 in a way that shows language and the culture of that language fully fused together has accomplished something laudable. In any language.

[Naam]

Little incentive to learn? jesus...เย็ดเข้ even if your the biggest scum bag sex pesting, drug abusing, liquor binging, degenerate of all time there is still huge advantages and pliable benefits to immersing yourself in the culture and language.

This defeatist attitude will just not do

it does very well as far as i am concerned and i have not the slightest intention or see any incentive to immerse myself into anything Thai except perhaps some of my favourite Thai food.

[Baa_Mango]

i would walk by you and laugh in your face. anyways to each their own, but its Thailand, so much funner when you can actually get shit done, would hateto live in a place where I would be living in such sheltered ignorance. word!

[rayongchelsea]

i would walk by you and laugh in your face. anyways to each their own, but its Thailand, so much funner when you can actually get shit done, would hateto live in a place where I would be living in such sheltered ignorance. word!

I speak thai ( not fluent) doesn't make me appreciate the culture the place etc..anymore....infact would argue the opposite at times...for me just to have a general conversation and do my everyday tasks ,but nothing more..very little shit gets done whatever the lingo..

[Baa_Mango]

oh trust me its not about appreciating culture. that would be my last point to make about the benefits of learning thai. anyways i am not judging. all i can talk about is my own experiences and opportunities that have opened up or went down cause of trying to get in the game w/ thai language. i am definitely not the thai grand master, but it has become a big part of who I am considering the things i've went through in the last ten years or so growing up in bangkok.

i understand for some people, Thailand (for me its bkk) is about just doing whatever they want, and being comfortable. if they can obtain that happiness or medium or balance (tons of my foreign friends have, with out a word of thai) then thats great. I am just saying for myself, I couldn't go back to not having what I have now, and its quite small things, like ordering special food, or going somewhere cool, or having a laugh, or whatever.

anyway last thing i am trying to stir up is a debate or some preachy crap from myself. Thats why Thailand is as good as it is probably.. people can come and get by and have a great quality of life with or with out embracing the language. Theres many different levels and uses for Thai. i could careless about understanding more about Thai "culture" or trying to appear the big shot to Thais or whatnot. I do like a firm connection to reality though, and through the streets is the way to go for that. Believe it or not but "THAI VISA FORUM" and "BANGKOK POST" and what have you aren't really eminent links to whats going on here.

[CaptHaddock]

There are lots of differences: Japanese is harder to learn for English-speakers

I grew up speaking Japanese alongside English so I can't judge, but I know a number of Westerners who have studied both Japanese and Thai to a fairly high level and most of them found Thai every bit as difficult as Japanese, just in different ways. Even near-native command of colloquial Thai is a serious achievement.

The answer to the OP's question depends entirely on how he wants to define 'really'. By my definition, I've met maybe 30 or 40 in almost that many years here, and most are old timers who came here when there was a lot more motivation to learn. Some come to think of it, 1,000 or so total is probably about as good a rough estimate as any. (Of course now in Japan the number is probably 10 to 100 times that.)

Spoken Thai and Spoken Japanese are probably similar in difficulty for English-speakers, but once you factor in reading and writing, Japanese becomes vastly more difficult. You can learn the Thai writing system in a month. Just the basic 1800 kanji will take you a lot longer than that.

We had this discussion in another thread. The Foreign Service Institute of the US State Dept, which is in the business of teaching foreign languages to US diplomats, has a difficulty rating that puts Japanese at the top and Thai in the middle.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikibooks:Language_Learning_Difficulty_for_English_Speakers

You certainly lucked out by having the chance to learn Japanese growing up. Perhaps you can even speak it without an accent.

[Zooheekock]

The perennial problem with these types of threads is that everyone has different standards. What is fluency? What is 'really speaking Thai'? You need to look at standardized measures, like the CEFR levels. You might say fluency is at B2 (which is upper intermediate or, for the British, a good grade at A level). At that level you can do pretty much everything you need to do and you can engage in general conversations which don't require super-specialized vocabulary. C1 is more like degree-level proficiency in a foreign language and C2 is near-native (on IELTS I think it's 8-9). Not many are going to reach those dizzy heights but if fluency is at B2/B2+ then there are a fair few people at that level, maybe less so with writing but with the other skills they are around. One thing is that these are fairly self-selecting groups - if you're not the kind of person who is going to devote the time required to get your Thai to that level, you are unlikely to meet many people who are.

I'm able to read books written in a casual style. I'd put my Thai at around intermediate level, I guess. However, the number of foreigners who can do the following is likely quite low:

-read academic text

-understand rachasap

-fluently discuss technical problems

-give a speech using rhetorical thai

-speak with monks using ecclesiastical thai

-use idioms properly in everyday speech

-make puns

-read/write poetry

etc.

It's very unlikely anyone is going to have interests which encompass all of those but I can do some. I read academic stuff in subject areas where I'm interested and I'm learning rachasap at the moment but I doubt I'll ever be a great poem reader and my ability to read vastly outruns my ability to discuss (in writing or speech) what I have read.

[Zooheekock]

oh trust me its not about appreciating culture. that would be my last point to make about the benefits of learning thai.

Culture in its anthropological sense is, for me, the main reason to learn Thai. If you want to understand the behaviour, beliefs, practices, etc. of the people around you, you really need to speak the language. I guess the vast majority of foreigners in Thailand either live surrounded by other foreigners or simply aren't interested in their environment but I couldn't imagine a life like that. Having an understanding of your world which is based on the absurd nonsense which passes through forums like this and the English-language media? No thanks.

[Zooheekock]

If there was an easy way to learn I'd do it. But I work full-time and value my weekends and holidays. Plus in 10 years of living here I've never found having only very basic Thai a handicap.

If you had devoted half an hour a day for those ten years, you'd be at a decent level by now. And whilst it's true that you can live perfectly comfortably in most of Thailand knowing only the barest minimum of the language, knowing more than the barest minimum also opens up new possibilities.

[SlyAnimal]

A number of trolling posts, and replies to them, have been removed.

Please keep it civil and debate the topic, don't let things turn personal.

This is an interesting discussion and trolling simply kills that discussion.

If you're not sure what the OP's original question was, I've quoted it below:

You guys that are living in Thai for a some time or have many farang friends,what's the average percent of those who can infact speak thai on a higher level with proper tone usage?(with higher level i mean basically to have enough knowledge for most of situations and have vocabulary of at least 5000 words+proper tone usage for each word).

I'm somewhere in intermediate level of thai language but in 7 years that i've been living here i've seen only 5-6 foreigners that could actually talk thai properly and could be understood perfectly by thai people.Makes me wonder if percent of those foreigners is between 1-5%?

[brewsterbudgen]

If there was an easy way to learn I'd do it. But I work full-time and value my weekends and holidays. Plus in 10 years of living here I've never found having only very basic Thai a handicap.

If you had devoted half an hour a day for those ten years, you'd be at a decent level by now. And whilst it's true that you can live perfectly comfortably in most of Thailand knowing only the barest minimum of the language, knowing more than the barest minimum also opens up new possibilities.

You may well be right. But I think you may be over-estimating my abilities! I'd love to understand and speak better Thai, but at 54, it ain't going to happen easily!

[Baa_Mango]

If there was an easy way to learn I'd do it. But I work full-time and value my weekends and holidays. Plus in 10 years of living here I've never found having only very basic Thai a handicap.

If you had devoted half an hour a day for those ten years, you'd be at a decent level by now. And whilst it's true that you can live perfectly comfortably in most of Thailand knowing only the barest minimum of the language, knowing more than the barest minimum also opens up new possibilities.

You may well be right. But I think you may be over-estimating my abilities! I'd love to understand and speak better Thai, but at 54, it ain't going to happen easily!

54 is the new 30. Middle age is a great time to pick up a new language. just try to consistently learn (AND IMPROVE). no need for smashing apart text books 9 hours a day. slow n steady! woo

[chiang mai]

What's an average percent?

[ExPratt]

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What's an average percent?

50% I'd say

[Neeranam]

Little incentive to learn? jesus...เย็ดเข้ even if your the biggest scum bag sex pesting, drug abusing, liquor binging, degenerate of all time there is still huge advantages and pliable benefits to immersing yourself in the culture and language.

This defeatist attitude will just not do

it does very well as far as i am concerned and i have not the slightest intention or see any incentive to immerse myself into anything Thai except perhaps some of my favourite Thai food.

Why? You obviously have too much time on your hands if you are reading the Thai forum with no intention of learning.

What are your motive? To put those who are interested in learning a foreign language down? Have you refused to learn other languages too or is it just Thai that you're scared of?

Actually I had a friend who died recently who was first secretary in the US embassy and first came to Thailand in 1958. Once when in his wife's car, he asked me to tell her driver to turn left. He learned to speak fluent Russian in the CIA in 6 months and spoke about 6 others fluently but just wouldn't, not couldn't learn Thai.