Surge of reported police harassment suggests campaign targeting tourists, expats

[hawker9000]

I'm sure it's possible to not see any. You're dismissing dozens of reports because one man walks for 6 hours and sees nothing?

He did see what he described as tessakit officers scamming tourists, however. And per my earlier post he personally knows a guy who spent a night in jail for not carrying his passport.

...late on a Sunday afternoon/early evening. Am more interested in what they're up to after dark when they're not quite as exposed to public view, Soi Cowboy opens up, etc.

[zydeco]

I'm sure it is still possible to do 2 circuits Nana to Ekkamai and not get searched those 2 times.

The point is things are happening to a certain unlucky %.

He also said he did not see any stop and searches...

I am now starting to get a bit worried about you, Are you sure you are not a Spy, or even from the Thai SAS ? ( i will tell you what SAS stands for later )

granuaile makes a perfectly reasonable point. The threads on this topic have compared the Thai police to the Gestapo and the interrogation of tourists to the Warsaw Ghetto. So, it isn't unreasonable when a major blogger like Richard Barrow spends the day trying to get arrested and not only doesn't get arrested but sees no evidence of any stops. Look, the problems with the Thai police are well know and undeniable, but this topic has been elevated to such a point of intensity that there needs to be some verifiable evidence that precludes talk of hysteria. Barrow said he will return and try again tomorrow. Let's wait and see. But as of now, Barrow has zilch.

[granuaile]

I'm sure it's possible to not see any. You're dismissing dozens of reports because one man walks for 6 hours and sees nothing?

He did see what he described as tessakit officers scamming tourists, however. And per my earlier post he personally knows a guy who spent a night in jail for not carrying his passport.

He described it as scamming, however, what he actually described was enforcing regulations (well known) for smoking and littering. The Chinese tourist he showed had admitted tossing his cigarette butt and the officer let him go without a fine. So how was that a scam? And in the several hours there he saw not one stop and search which are supposedly so common. I was in that area exactly one week ago and saw nothing, this just verifies my own experiences... Nothing happening

[ThailandRick]

Just came through MRT to BTS at ASOK and noticed a pain clothes (All black however with the white police like emblem on jacket) looking around like scoping the area.... Me and my Fan both seen this guy and both had the same feeling that is up to no good... About a year ago near ASOK I personally had been searched minding my own business on a walk... These "random" searches have always been happening in the in the past, but now reports of increased activity rapidly, false positive peepee tests, drug planting on the person is a real serious worry and concern... Please be careful, travel in groups, and avoid the current choke points utilized... Hopefully this will be nipped in the bud shortly... hopefully...

[jspill]

~50 reports, ~500 people in a Facebook group, Stickman saying he's received lots of emails, letters to the BK post, Wall Street Journal covering it, Stickboy and Coconuts doing a write up, Barrow knowing a guy who spent a night in jail... guess it's a matter of opinion whether or not nothing is happening. Let's wait and see.

[granuaile]

...late on a Sunday afternoon/early evening. Am more interested in what they're up to after dark when they're not quite as exposed to public view, Soi Cowboy opens up, etc.

I was there at 7 PM last Sunday, walked from Asoke to Soi 26, came back same route around 10:30-11 - saw nothing out of the ordinary, no stop and searches. I'm sure that they do happen but not at the level this thread suggests....

[green job]

I'm sure it is still possible to do 2 circuits Nana to Ekkamai and not get searched those 2 times.

The point is things are happening to a certain unlucky %.

He also said he did not see any stop and searches...

I am now starting to get a bit worried about you, Are you sure you are not a Spy, or even from the Thai SAS ? ( i will tell you what SAS stands for later )

granuaile makes a perfectly reasonable point. The threads on this topic have compared the Thai police to the Gestapo and the interrogation of tourists to the Warsaw Ghetto. So, it isn't unreasonable when a major blogger like Richard Barrow spends the day trying to get arrested and not only doesn't get arrested but sees no evidence of any stops. Look, the problems with the Thai police are well know and undeniable, but this topic has been elevated to such a point of intensity that there needs to be some verifiable evidence that precludes talk of hysteria. Barrow said he will return and try again tomorrow. Let's wait and see. But as of now, Barrow has zilch.

Yes ok I suppose so! The point is Richard Barrow, To me he means nothing,sorry I do not wish to be rude but who is he? Am I being thick?

The old biddy that woked for the BBC ( cant remember her name ) she reported on the trouble in BKK in 2010 also on the floods ( we lost most of our house)

That was also a utter load of bullsxxt,so who can you beleive ???

[John1thru10]

I'm sure it is still possible to do 2 circuits Nana to Ekkamai and not get searched those 2 times.

The point is things are happening to a certain unlucky %.

He also said he did not see any stop and searches...

I am now starting to get a bit worried about you, Are you sure you are not a Spy, or even from the Thai SAS ? ( i will tell you what SAS stands for later )

No accusations of being a spy, from me. But, this person has been vehement already that 'nothing is wrong on any level' and thinks it's 'bashing Thailand' to speak about it. And then turns to 'only people who deserve it', and kind of vague political accusations about people having ulterior motives, etc. So, she thinks she's defending Thailand and doesn't get it.

Obviously something has been happening, because in 5 years I've never seen so many reports and stories all at once this way. And, of course, it's at a very intense time in general, in whatever very complex way it weaves into the whole picture.

I pray that Bangkok will get this under control with no excuses or double speak, right away. Caring about this city, this is the absolute worst public-relations move imaginable for a country that's hurting right now.

Edited December 7, 2014 by John1thru10

[zydeco]

He also said he did not see any stop and searches...

I am now starting to get a bit worried about you, Are you sure you are not a Spy, or even from the Thai SAS ? ( i will tell you what SAS stands for later )

granuaile makes a perfectly reasonable point. The threads on this topic have compared the Thai police to the Gestapo and the interrogation of tourists to the Warsaw Ghetto. So, it isn't unreasonable when a major blogger like Richard Barrow spends the day trying to get arrested and not only doesn't get arrested but sees no evidence of any stops. Look, the problems with the Thai police are well know and undeniable, but this topic has been elevated to such a point of intensity that there needs to be some verifiable evidence that precludes talk of hysteria. Barrow said he will return and try again tomorrow. Let's wait and see. But as of now, Barrow has zilch.

Yes ok I suppose so! The point is Richard Barrow, To me he means nothing,sorry I do not wish to be rude but who is he? Am I being thick?

The old biddy that woked for the BBC ( cant remember her name ) she reported on the trouble in BKK in 2010 also on the floods ( we lost most of our house)

That was also a utter load of bullsxxt,so who can you beleive ???

Yes, you're right. We deal with an agenda driven media at just about every level, especially at the level of social media. Who can you believe? Sometimes, only your own eyes. Again, there is a history of problems with the police, especially the Thong Lor police. (Didn't a few upper ranks get caught in a kidnapping scheme a few years ago and only got caught when some kidnapped Italian tourists escaped?) But when I put together the sources for this story--Facebook, Stickman, Stickboy, Coconuts, and a hit piece on the government in the Wall Street Journal, I have a tendency to think things are being blown out of proportion. Not that stops are not being made and some people tested and harassed--but not in the "boxcars to Auschwitz" fashion that has been described in some of these posts.

[CharlieH]

Sensationalising and exaggerating comes to mind, coupled with journalistic style embelishments.

[John1thru10]

Yes, you're right. We deal with an agenda driven media at just about every level, especially at the level of social media. Who can you believe? Sometimes, only your own eyes. Again, there is a history of problems with the police, especially the Thong Lor police. (Didn't a few upper ranks get caught in a kidnapping scheme a few years ago and only got caught when some kidnapped Italian tourists escaped?) But when I put together the sources for this story--Facebook, Stickman, Stickboy, Coconuts, and a hit piece on the government in the Wall Street Journal, I have a tendency to think things are being blown out of proportion. Not that stops are not being made and some people tested and harassed--but not in the "boxcars to Auschwitz" fashion that has been described in some of these posts.

Look, I don't actually see anyone talking about 'boxcars to Auschwitz' as you say. That's kind of another way of sensationalizing your own opinion, to make fun of people.

People are concerned about not being extorted out of (some reports) 20-50,000 baht for walking down the street, and being intimidated. That sounds bad enough, without the exaggerations. So please don't make fun of people for being concerned about that. It's a forum, so it's going to attract a lot of people, but a lot of it sounds pretty on the ground to me.

Edited December 7, 2014 by John1thru10

[green job]

Yes, you're right. We deal with an agenda driven media at just about every level, especially at the level of social media. Who can you believe? Sometimes, only your own eyes. Again, there is a history of problems with the police, especially the Thong Lor police. (Didn't a few upper ranks get caught in a kidnapping scheme a few years ago and only got caught when some kidnapped Italian tourists escaped?) But when I put together the sources for this story--Facebook, Stickman, Stickboy, Coconuts, and a hit piece on the government in the Wall Street Journal, I have a tendency to think things are being blown out of proportion. Not that stops are not being made and some people tested and harassed--but not in the "boxcars to Auschwitz" fashion that has been described in some of these posts.

Look, I don't actually see anyone talking about 'boxcars to Auschwitz' as you say. That's kind of another way of sensationalizing your own opinion, to make fun of people.

People are concerned about not being extorted out of (some reports) 20-50,000 baht for walking down the street, and being intimidated. That sounds bad enough, without the exaggerations. So please don't make fun of people for being concerned about that. It's a forum, so it's going to attract a lot of people, but a lot of it sounds pretty on the ground to me.

No Dont agree, Zydoco is not making fun out of people,I am sure this subject has been blown out of proportion.Many posts are bull The one with drinking

4 ltr water to piss is the best.. so I give that one 10 points.

[Chao Lao Beach]

They just don't want tourist anymore !

Everyday another attempt to stop tourists from choosing Thailand as a travel destination.....

I wonder how the TAT will spin this one, Come to Thailand for shake down !!!

[hawker9000]

There's another thread specifically on the Asoke area goings-on, and enough firsthand material to make it clear that the Thong Lor stops in their recent intensity are a reality. Whether or not, as THIS topic title suggests that's part of a coordinated bigger campaign against tourists or foreigners generally is another question. The two questions being comingled seems like deliberate obfuscation of the former by the latter.

That said, the Thong Lor thing may be in remission by now. Am listening for RECENT reports (by which I mean, just over the last few days or so), and not seeing anyone posting anything. Someone loses face and any lasting deterrent effect on actual mules is lost (not that I believe for a moment that actual drug enforcement ever had a thing to do with this) if a higher-ranking official comes out with a public statement condemning these stops and announcing that they will end, so I reckon it's possible that it would be throttled back on the low down rather than with any fanfare.

Edited December 7, 2014 by hawker9000

[newcomer71]

Sensationalising and exaggerating comes to mind, coupled with journalistic style embelishments.

The problem exists and calling sensationalism and exaggerating the reporting of a crime it sounds funny...

Edited December 7, 2014 by newcomer71

[berybert]

I live in Thong Lor. I got stopped some time ago at Ekamai bus station all pleasant enough. I have seen plenty of people stopped and had their bags gone thru between Thong Lor and Asoke. I have now started getting off the BTS at Asoke in the hope of getting pulled over, not happened yet.

Seriously why would you give someone 20 thousand baht for no reason other than the fact they are dressed in brown. Play the game, go to the station. Deary me grow a set and man up.

[granuaile]

Sensationalising and exaggerating comes to mind, coupled with journalistic style embelishments.

The problem exists and calling sensationalism and exaggerating the reporting of a crime it sounds funny...

A problem with no independent verification of its existence. Richard Barrow is not one of my favorite people, but he is certainly no fan of the current Thai government or its agencies. That said, while I think he often words things to suit his own POV, he is basically honest - maybe not objective but honest.... If he had seen any evidence today of illegal behavior from the police I am certain he would have posted it.... I was in that area a week ago and saw nothing. Richard Barrow was there today and saw nothing. This entire thread concerns something that is known to happen sometimes and made it seem a common occurrence. It clearly is not....

[Transporter]

I dont really see the problem. If a person has done nothing wrong then they are on the right side. I think the only people who dont like this type of policing are guilty of something.

I am all for it. The more the police do to protect the innocent then all for the better.

I hope this method sends out a message.

It is not harassment at all. The police are doing their job and its about time.

If the tourists being stopped and searched dont like it then go home.

[newcomer71]

Sensationalising and exaggerating comes to mind, coupled with journalistic style embelishments.

The problem exists and calling sensationalism and exaggerating the reporting of a crime it sounds funny...

A problem with no independent verification of its existence. Richard Barrow is not one of my favorite people, but he is certainly no fan of the current Thai government or its agencies. That said, while I think he often words things to suit his own POV, he is basically honest - maybe not objective but honest.... If he had seen any evidence today of illegal behavior from the police I am certain he would have posted it.... I was in that area a week ago and saw nothing. Richard Barrow was there today and saw nothing. This entire thread concerns something that is known to happen sometimes and made it seem a common occurrence. It clearly is not....

I wrote this post earlier in the thread, specifically replying to one of your many posts here.

I have been stopped in the past two weeks on Sukhumvit just passed Asoke intersection. I showed my passport and everything was alright. That is the normality.

In the last 2 months 1 friend and 2 colleagues in visit in Bangkok have been stopped, one of them did not have a passport with him but a copy and have been asked 2,000thb for let him go. Another one 10 days ago has been asked to take an urine test, but he was lucky to be with another Thai staff at office and very disgruntly have been authorized to go. My friend not more than 2 weeks ago have been stopped, they keeped his passport and asked 2,000 for irregularities without even explain what the problem was, he wanted to call his company for ask assistance and they took his phone too.

He has been forced to give 2,000 thb as well and let walk.

Now: I send a brief report to my Embassy for let know about this problem, I don't give a d#%n whichever the government in charge is now. This is a police problem, whichever is the cause.

Downplay the problem is just silly.

This entire thread concerns something that is known to happen sometimes and made it seem a common occurrence. It clearly is not....

So, if sometimes police will extort you money, it will be ok? Good to know then..,

Let's look the other side until we will get slapped.

P.s.: I think you will say, I don't have any proof, it doesn't matter as I reported the problem to an official institution already and that's all I needed to do for my part.

Edited December 7, 2014 by newcomer71

[newcomer71]

I dont really see the problem. If a person has done nothing wrong then they are on the right side. I think the only people who dont like this type of policing are guilty of something.

I am all for it. The more the police do to protect the innocent then all for the better.

I hope this method sends out a message.

It is not harassment at all. The police are doing their job and its about time.

If the tourists being stopped and searched dont like it then go home.

Cool, I wish you never meet a policeman trying to extort money from you.

Peace.

[givenall]

I dont really see the problem. If a person has done nothing wrong then they are on the right side. I think the only people who dont like this type of policing are guilty of something.

I am all for it. The more the police do to protect the innocent then all for the better.

I hope this method sends out a message.

It is not harassment at all. The police are doing their job and its about time.

If the tourists being stopped and searched dont like it then go home.

It isn't about right or wrong. It's all about intimidating the tourist to extract money.

[granuaile]

I dont really see the problem. If a person has done nothing wrong then they are on the right side. I think the only people who dont like this type of policing are guilty of something.

I am all for it. The more the police do to protect the innocent then all for the better.

I hope this method sends out a message.

It is not harassment at all. The police are doing their job and its about time.

If the tourists being stopped and searched dont like it then go home.

A lot of people in this forum think Thailand is their personal playground, a place to party, do drugs, get laid, walk down the street with a beer in each hand, doing things they would never get away with in their home countries. And many of them tend to immerse themselves in the ghettos they have carved out, guess where... There's nothing wrong with wanting familiarity but it goes beyond that on Sukhumvit - pornography openly sold (including bestiality), allegedly (but probably fake) controlled drugs being openly sold, a lot of illicit drug activity, hookers (both girl-girls and ladyboys), on and on.... Actually the police should crack down on all of it, Thai and foreign, clear out the prostitutes, stop the sale of illegal drugs (fake or genuine), stop bad behavior,... For that though we likely will have to count on the Army, as was the case with the so-called "happy-ending" massage parlors.

I absolutely agree with you that people have a choice - to be here or not be here. If they cannot respect the laws and traditions, well... they have no business complaining about enforcement. Personally I feel freer here than I do in the USA, and Thailand has been nothing but good to me. I love Thailand, and I respect its laws.

[newcomer71]

I dont really see the problem. If a person has done nothing wrong then they are on the right side. I think the only people who dont like this type of policing are guilty of something.

I am all for it. The more the police do to protect the innocent then all for the better.

I hope this method sends out a message.

It is not harassment at all. The police are doing their job and its about time.

If the tourists being stopped and searched dont like it then go home.

A lot of people in this forum think Thailand is their personal playground, a place to party, do drugs, get laid, walk down the street with a beer in each hand, doing things they would never get away with in their home countries. And many of them tend to immerse themselves in the ghettos they have carved out, guess where... There's nothing wrong with wanting familiarity but it goes beyond that on Sukhumvit - pornography openly sold (including bestiality), allegedly (but probably fake) controlled drugs being openly sold, a lot of illicit drug activity, hookers (both girl-girls and ladyboys), on and on.... Actually the police should crack down on all of it, Thai and foreign, clear out the prostitutes, stop the sale of illegal drugs (fake or genuine), stop bad behavior,... For that though we likely will have to count on the Army, as was the case with the so-called "happy-ending" massage parlors.

I absolutely agree with you that people have a choice - to be here or not be here. If they cannot respect the laws and traditions, well... they have no business complaining about enforcement. Personally I feel freer here than I do in the USA, and Thailand has been nothing but good to me. I love Thailand, and I respect its laws.

I hope you are not talking about me, because I strongly agree law have to be enforced. But living here for more than 10 years made me learn that that's a rare case, sadly.

Welcome any crackdown and law enforcement for ANY kind of crime! Security is all we want I think.

But exploiting and condemnation of every bribe or extortion episode is our duty!

[granuaile]

I hope you are not talking about me, because I strongly agree law have to be enforced. But living here for more than 10 years made me learn that that's a rare case, sadly.

Welcome any crackdown and law enforcement for ANY kind of crime! Security is all we want I think.

But exploiting and condemnation of every bribe or extortion episode is our duty!

No, not talking about you or even necessarily any particular person, but I think a lot of this thread and the so-called reports (most of which I don't believe are credible) of police abuses of stop and search is motivated by several factors - 1) people who are involved in illegal activities trying to make it into an issue to tie the hands of police, 2) a certain mentality that perceives Thailand with a racist and colonialist mentality and "how dare they interfere with my fun", 3) a desire to discredit the current government (which I think is the predominant motivation here), and 4) the group that always shows up here to condemn Thailand ("Suicide, yeah right?" "Thai people hate farang" etc). Anyway my experience here in Thailand has been a positive one. Maybe that is because Thailand interjected itself into my life long before I ever had a chance to visit the country. My undergrad years I majored in Asian studies, but none of the courses touched on Thailand, but in life, after graduate school, Thailand and I became very intertwined. I have noted that there is an element in many online forums that see Thailand in a light tinted by racism and colonialism ("It's ours, how dare they make us obey the law") not beyond comparison to a document I read in the National Archives of Malaysia where the British wanted to charge the Sultana for a license to have a radio! Thailand is not a colony, not a sex playground. It is a great and proud country that welcomes those who respect it, and those who do not respect it the question arises why are they here? I am here because it is home...

[CharlieH]

pointless one word remark removed.

[Dumu Ali]

I asked my girl coz she does my Villa runs and she said that police target junky types not to waste the drug test kits and guys like this Barrow maybe dont fit the Breaking Bad in Bangkok profile so they dont get jumped and she reckons it has being going on a long time only before more Thais tested and now testing more foreign junkies as rumor has it there is a massive colony of Ice Zombies breeding in our back alley due to the large cheap HQ supply and now that the military are here all the dealers and junkies are getting itchy of the police coz so many are sent to rehabilitation camps to be cured including foreign junkies only the Thai junkies dont cry about harassment. Without rehab many of them might suicide jump I guess

[granuaile]

LOL I do hope not in response to me, but I can see an off-color remark or two....

[granuaile]

I asked my girl coz she does my Villa runs and she said that police target junky types not to waste the drug test kits and guys like this Barrow maybe dont fit the Breaking Bad in Bangkok profile so they dont get jumped and she reckons it has being going on a long time only before more Thais tested and now testing more foreign junkies as rumor has it there is a massive colony of Ice Zombies breeding in our back alley due to the large cheap HQ supply and now that the military are here all the dealers and junkies are getting itchy of the police coz so many are sent to rehabilitation camps to be cured including foreign junkies only the Thai junkies dont cry about harassment. Without rehab many of them might suicide jump I guess

LOL, Barrow is not one of my favorite people, but at least judging from the pics I have seen he has to be one of the most clean-cut fellows in BKK. I don't think anything about him would make him a target for stop and search with any possible justifiable reason. And there is a very real yaba problem here in BKK, both Thai and foreigner....

[Squeegee]

A lot of people in this forum think Thailand is their personal playground, a place to party, do drugs, get laid, walk down the street with a beer in each hand

"walk down the street with a beer in each hand"?

So you deny seeing things others are seeing and yet you're seeing things others are not seeing... utterly bizarre postings from you in this topic.

[berybert]

The police target junkies who have no money so they can get 20 thousand baht out of them. Well that makes sense.

There are many many places in the world you can do drugs and if caught no big deal. if you want to do drugs in an Asian country be prepared to die for it. Up to you.