Koh Tao - Witnesses 'scared to testify' over Brit tourist murders: Thai lawyer

[JOC]

I am going to predict that the defence lawyers will advise the B2 to plead guilty to the charges to avoid a certain death penalty if they choose to plead not -guilty. The prosecutor will make it quite clear that the outcome is pre-determined - it has to be, because it can be the only satisfactory outcome from Thailand's POV in that the case is concluded with the B2 admitting guilt.

A 900 page report including witness statements, DNA evidence, and items stolen from one victim, will persuade the judge that the charges are beyond reasonable doubt.

The alternative would be to appeal the pre-determined guilty sentences right up to the Supreme court and pray...

I am afraid you are right.......they will be found guilty, they have no choice. Anything else like acquittal, throwing out the case, a not guilty verdict will be loss of face for the RTP. Nobody can change this and nobody can do anything about this.

Scary stuff!

If these boys do die, I wish it not to be for nothing.

That their deaths will mark a new era for thailand.

That the world will stop hand feeding this country.

And through abscence the people will become pro active with integrity.

Please world, if this is a sacrifice, let it be worthwhile.

Give us a break please!!

[Equalizer]

Hannah Witheridge, the British forensics and Scotland yard are now the key to all this. In my opinion forensics in the UK will have found DNA on Hannah and have their own results of this. They will also know if the body will have been purposely ''Cleaned in an attempt to hide evidence'' either way this will be the case. Secondly obtaining DNA from the 2 boys is not a big undertaking. I am sure Scotland yard will have obtained it somehow either directly or indirectly if the Thai authorities refused to offer it too them. This has to be the starting point as far as the 2 boys are concerned, can Scotland yard or will Scotland yard release a statement saying they can prove that these two boys DNA is a match or not? If not then the Thai authorities have a serious chose to make. Do they undermine the evidence given to them by one of the most respected forensics people on earth or will they think of the consequences of disregarding what Scotland yards Forensics find. I am sure that now these boys have been officially charged the British will now make their move.

[AleG]

AlecG post # 86.

Just as I expected the calls for vigilante "justice" wouldn't take too long.

You are of course referring to those so well informed and insightful posts made by Beettlejuice in your post ?

No I was referring to the post I quoted, not hard to figure out, is it? But since you choose to deliberately omit the quote I guess it took some effort from you not to get it.

[DaveE13]

tintong tourist laughing at these disgusting murders. what a man you are.

[DaveE13]

tintong there are alot of ex forces on here who have lost friends no doubt. what you ever done for your country? jack shit no doubt!

[Krenjai]

Hannah Witheridge, the British forensics and Scotland yard are now the key to all this. In my opinion forensics in the UK will have found DNA on Hannah and have their own results of this. They will also know if the body will have been purposely ''Cleaned in an attempt to hide evidence'' either way this will be the case. Secondly obtaining DNA from the 2 boys is not a big undertaking. I am sure Scotland yard will have obtained it somehow either directly or indirectly if the Thai authorities refused to offer it too them. This has to be the starting point as far as the 2 boys are concerned, can Scotland yard or will Scotland yard release a statement saying they can prove that these two boys DNA is a match or not? If not then the Thai authorities have a serious chose to make. Do they undermine the evidence given to them by one of the most respected forensics people on earth or will they think of the consequences of disregarding what Scotland yards Forensics find. I am sure that now these boys have been officially charged the British will now make their move.

I think you're living in a "Fantasy Island of Wishful Thinking", this is not going to happen IMO. IF indeed Scotland Yard would hold such a trump-card, they would have played it by now, don't you think? So, if true what you say, what "consequences of ignoring" are you talking about? I bet most Thais never even heard of Scotland yard. On top of that, it is easy for the Thais to put a Thai-spin to that story, if such a story would ever emerge. I am afraid it will be too late for B2.

The wise thing for them to do now is to plead guilty to avoid certain death and hope that the world will not forget and pray for a miracle. I hope the lawyers will tape that new confession and explain why they plead guilty.

BTW : What happened to the mysterious Number 3 report who claimed the RTP already got the trump-card which is apparently also referring to a gunshot wound?

All is speculation and therefore all posts by everybody should end with IMHO (in my humble opinion).

IMHO

Edited December 5, 2014 by Krenjai

[DaveE13]

Krenjal what a good post. agree 100 per cent

[Norvid]

If the Thai justice system is unfair, how the process and the verdict could be?

[cookee68]

If they have that many dis-advantages coming to Thailand, work, immigration, being beaten up all the time, being made scape goats, then why risk it, and if they get charged for illegal working etc, why do the Thai people who employ them get nothing done to them, innocent or not I don't know, the same as their lawyers have not seen all the evidence like us, I am reserved, and if you are facing a death penalty and your friends will not help you then they are not your friends sorry, they may be charged for illegal working, but I believe they will be protected due to the severity of the case, so why not go and see their lawyers,

[Krenjai]

If they have that many dis-advantages coming to Thailand, work, immigration, being beaten up all the time, being made scape goats, then why risk it, and if they get charged for illegal working etc, why do the Thai people who employ them get nothing done to them, innocent or not I don't know, the same as their lawyers have not seen all the evidence like us, I am reserved, and if you are facing a death penalty and your friends will not help you then they are not your friends sorry, they may be charged for illegal working, but I believe they will be protected due to the severity of the case, so why not go and see their lawyers,

Do you, or have you ever lived in Thailand?

[Jonmarleesco]

'The grisly murders delivered a fresh blow to the kingdom's image as a tourist haven ...' Aided and abetted by a Thai police force seemingly more intent on shaking down foreign visitors and residents than in properly doing their job.

[cookee68]

Hannah Witheridge, the British forensics and Scotland yard are now the key to all this. In my opinion forensics in the UK will have found DNA on Hannah and have their own results of this. They will also know if the body will have been purposely ''Cleaned in an attempt to hide evidence'' either way this will be the case. Secondly obtaining DNA from the 2 boys is not a big undertaking. I am sure Scotland yard will have obtained it somehow either directly or indirectly if the Thai authorities refused to offer it too them. This has to be the starting point as far as the 2 boys are concerned, can Scotland yard or will Scotland yard release a statement saying they can prove that these two boys DNA is a match or not? If not then the Thai authorities have a serious chose to make. Do they undermine the evidence given to them by one of the most respected forensics people on earth or will they think of the consequences of disregarding what Scotland yards Forensics find. I am sure that now these boys have been officially charged the British will now make their move.

I think you're living in a "Fantasy Island of Wishful Thinking", this is not going to happen IMO. IF indeed Scotland Yard would hold such a trump-card, they would have played it by now, don't you think? So, if true what you say, what "consequences of ignoring" are you talking about? I bet most Thais never even heard of Scotland yard. On top of that, it is easy for the Thais to put a Thai-spin to that story, if such a story would ever emerge. I am afraid it will be too late for B2.

The wise thing for them to do now is to plead guilty to avoid certain death and hope that the world will not forget and pray for a miracle. I hope the lawyers will tape that new confession and explain why they plead guilty.

BTW : What happened to the mysterious Number 3 report who claimed the RTP already got the trump-card which is apparently also referring to a gunshot wound?

All is speculation and therefore all posts by everybody should end with IMHO (in my humble opinion).

IMHO

You are right everything is speculation, and on many parts blown way out of proportion, we don't really know what happened, as we have not seen all the evidence, we have only seen the Thai bullshit of the evidence, we all know the BIB are full of shit and lies, but hey maybe they are guilty, who knows; YET

[Krenjai]

Hannah Witheridge, the British forensics and Scotland yard are now the key to all this. In my opinion forensics in the UK will have found DNA on Hannah and have their own results of this. They will also know if the body will have been purposely ''Cleaned in an attempt to hide evidence'' either way this will be the case. Secondly obtaining DNA from the 2 boys is not a big undertaking. I am sure Scotland yard will have obtained it somehow either directly or indirectly if the Thai authorities refused to offer it too them. This has to be the starting point as far as the 2 boys are concerned, can Scotland yard or will Scotland yard release a statement saying they can prove that these two boys DNA is a match or not? If not then the Thai authorities have a serious chose to make. Do they undermine the evidence given to them by one of the most respected forensics people on earth or will they think of the consequences of disregarding what Scotland yards Forensics find. I am sure that now these boys have been officially charged the British will now make their move.

I think you're living in a "Fantasy Island of Wishful Thinking", this is not going to happen IMO. IF indeed Scotland Yard would hold such a trump-card, they would have played it by now, don't you think? So, if true what you say, what "consequences of ignoring" are you talking about? I bet most Thais never even heard of Scotland yard. On top of that, it is easy for the Thais to put a Thai-spin to that story, if such a story would ever emerge. I am afraid it will be too late for B2.

The wise thing for them to do now is to plead guilty to avoid certain death and hope that the world will not forget and pray for a miracle. I hope the lawyers will tape that new confession and explain why they plead guilty.

BTW : What happened to the mysterious Number 3 report who claimed the RTP already got the trump-card which is apparently also referring to a gunshot wound?

All is speculation and therefore all posts by everybody should end with IMHO (in my humble opinion).

IMHO

You are right everything is speculation, and on many parts blown way out of proportion, we don't really know what happened, as we have not seen all the evidence, we have only seen the Thai bullshit of the evidence, we all know the BIB are full of shit and lies, but hey maybe they are guilty, who knows; YET

As I stated before, them being guilty is the same as snow falling on Koh Tao on Christmas day! Yes, IMHO!

[Krenjai]

If they have that many dis-advantages coming to Thailand, work, immigration, being beaten up all the time, being made scape goats, then why risk it, and if they get charged for illegal working etc, why do the Thai people who employ them get nothing done to them, innocent or not I don't know, the same as their lawyers have not seen all the evidence like us, I am reserved, and if you are facing a death penalty and your friends will not help you then they are not your friends sorry, they may be charged for illegal working, but I believe they will be protected due to the severity of the case, so why not go and see their lawyers,

Do you, or have you ever lived in Thailand?

Also,

First of all Myanmar, is a very poor country and in Thailand they earn triple of what they would earn back home.

FYI:

http://www.thaizer.com/culture-shock/kreng-jai/

This is true for most Asian cultures, people will NOT speak up to higher authority and even if asked they will not necessarily tell the truth but more likely what you want to hear!

"The concept of kreng jai can also be frustrating for many tourists because it doesn’t encourage Thai people to express exactly what they think. Instead, they may give you the answer that they think you want to hear"

[cookee68]

If they have that many dis-advantages coming to Thailand, work, immigration, being beaten up all the time, being made scape goats, then why risk it, and if they get charged for illegal working etc, why do the Thai people who employ them get nothing done to them, innocent or not I don't know, the same as their lawyers have not seen all the evidence like us, I am reserved, and if you are facing a death penalty and your friends will not help you then they are not your friends sorry, they may be charged for illegal working, but I believe they will be protected due to the severity of the case, so why not go and see their lawyers,

Do you, or have you ever lived in Thailand?

yes for many many years, and I have had my fair share of run ins with the BIB as well, but I have always stood my ground if I was right, and I have helped many a friend out in trouble here, I am old school and will not bow down to threats, regardless,

[mathias67]

Wonder how much money has changed hands to get all the ducks in a row??

Thailand may have improved its corruption-ranking, but as long as you can pay to get away with murder, the country still remains in the cave-age!!

It stinks!!

I know from personnal experience that dealing with the police is just a money making exercise. My friend and I both had to pay Bt10,000 each for a police officer to do his job, he took statements from both of us, promised for three months to arrest the people involved and at the end of the three months despite going to see him on a weekly basis guess what he did. Sod all. All the police here in Thailand are about is taking mooney and then doing NOTHING

[monkeysu]

Have any of you who believe the boys are innocent and support their cause considered going to the court cases to show them your support in person? I realize that most of you are not in Samui, but I just wondered if anybody who is here had thought about it.

[Krenjai]

Have any of you who believe the boys are innocent and support their cause considered going to the court cases to show them your support in person? I realize that most of you are not in Samui, but I just wondered if anybody who is here had thought about it.

Yes, thought about that one, and what if 100.000 people would show up? Do you think that help the B2? I think yes! Unfortunately we are all too busy with our own lives!

[hoyism]

Have any of you who believe the boys are innocent and support their cause considered going to the court cases to show them your support in person? I realize that most of you are not in Samui, but I just wondered if anybody who is here had thought about it.

i've just given money to link i posted earlier that helps fund the legal team representing them and pays for the boys family to come over be near them. best i can do.

friends on Koh Pha Ngan regulary go over and bring food, bedding etc.

they are getting a lot of support.

Edited December 5, 2014 by hoyism

[tingtongtourist]

tintong there are alot of ex forces on here who have lost friends no doubt. what you ever done for your country? jack shit no doubt!

not laughing at murders,no way, but some of these posters replies are getting beyond whats ridiculuos. Vigilante groups..you have to laugh.

Watching to many Charles Bronsan movies.

as for me, i did work in my country and contribute and pay tax which in some way does pay the salary of these invinsible toy pretend soldiers.

ask them what they did and is probably so secret they cant tell you!

Im talkin bout these bar stool soldiers who you see in bangkok not real army or navy

[DaveE13]

ok tingtong point taken. but i think it was one poster talking about vigillantes. not all of us think that but there are bigger players in samui that probably pissed off with this familly on kt. im talking about other Thais.

[Everts72]

Bang on the money there.

IMO, this lawyer is starting to sound as though he won't be causing too much dust........probably more than a little scared.....but I think he's a brave guy taking this on, but the system here will get him if he starts to get too cocky!!

Disclosure, no case would make court in western countrys without it! Is there no law or requirement for disclosure in this country?

As for the wittness's if they are illegal migrants they should now be in diplomatic protective custody to testify , that would be far safer for them.To remain in Thailand without this and say nothing they become fish bate.

They could then be sent home by and under protection of their embassy, if I was a wittness without embassy protection I would be gone already.

Then no one has mentioned who is employing these illegal migrants who are rife all over Thailand, probably employed by the same gangsters that run the island yet nothing said about laying charges against them.

As for the Brittish police and David Cameron they are only interested in political motives, with all due respect to all Britts the NewZealand government did nothing about the Chiang Mai poisenings even after an undercover news team posing as tourists went to the Hotel and took samples and had them anylised in NZ and the results proved the room had been sprayed with a cheap deadly toxin that killed.

The perpertators walked.

Then in Fergusson USA cops can shoot people dead without fear of prosecution same has happened in NZ.

The world is rotten not just Thai police , however this is one of the most blatant and damming crimes to become a farce in front of the whole world and unless 99% of the people in this world following this case are stupid then Thailands tourist industry and reputation is now suffering as we wont forget.

My prediction is another murder coming soon on KOH TAO, by the same bulletproof mob and I will never ever go there as will any other tourist who has half a brain

[Krenjai]

ok tingtong point taken. but i think it was one poster talking about vigillantes. not all of us think that but there are bigger players in samui that probably pissed off with this familly on kt. im talking about other Thais.

So you are saying a Thai version of Charles Bronson is on its way to deal with The Bad Boys from KT vigilante style? LOL!

http://www.glockforum.net/forum/attachments/off-topic-discussion/2842d1385922368-knock-out-game-vigilante-sought-thanksgiving-day-shooting-charles-bronson-quotes-3.jpg

[DaveE13]

no not saying that i meen other businessmen who are not connected to this familly must be pissed with all the bad publicity. used to love those death wish movies lol

[sambum]

"We have many disadvantages... we still have not seen the prosecutors' evidence, we just have to fight as best as we can," he added.

Just about sums it all up, doesn't it?

I copied and pasted, but you beat me to it! "You took ........................ mouth!"

[DaveE13]

i was a bit pissed off the ex sas comment. alot of us ex forces hear this type of crap all the time. im ok now had a cup of coffee and a cold one so i appologise for the rant lol

[Willy Eckerslike]

From the Phuket news

Phuket: Koh Tao murder suspects to enter pleas Monday

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=AwrSbmoKk4FUnggAL0pXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEzZjJnbW1sBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNgRjb2xvA2dxMQR2dGlkA1ZJUDU0OF8x/RV=2/RE=1417806731/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.thephuketnews.com%2fkoh-tao-murder-suspects-to-enter-pleas-monday-49992.php/RK=0/RS=rn9YG3xLnAIXGWMJXp9wE7K7dXw-

Quote:

Speaking about the torture allegations, Thawatchai Saengjaew, chief of the Public Prosecution's Region 8 Office, said no injuries had been found on either of the suspects while lawyers were also present when the interrogations were carried out via interpreters.

Pick the bones out of that.................

Edited December 5, 2014 by Willy Eckerslike

[boomerangutang]

The issue which stands out the most for me is that they are afraid. Regardless of their guilt or innocence, I am wondering about the Myanmar community in Thailand and how they feel about this. I would presume that they are either afraid, or too ignorant/stupid to be anything else.

The Myanmar migrants need to have a voice. They need to develop tactical measures to insure that it is the guilty who get "caught" and not the innocent. They need to use the buddy system any time they go out. They need to have some kind of social network where they can exchange information for the world to see.

Things like this will continue to happen. I am simply shocked that the Myanmar people here in this country are still not reacting intelligently, and moreover letting yet themselves yet again be the stooges of their masters.

Thailand is the rain. You can't stop the rain from falling, but you can fashion an umbrella to stand under when it does begin to fall.

I've got to get a bit defensive for the Burmese, who can't speak-up for themselves on this blog. Going back a-ways, Thailand had two wars with the Burmese, and lost both. There are psychological wounds that span generations. I once got manhandled by 6 plainclothes Thai cops who demanded to see my passport. In jest, I pointed at one and demanded to see his passport and asked if he was Burmese. He got immediately livid and would have punched my lights out if his buddies had held me, but they didn't.

I've got a Burmese friend who is a street tout. He's one of the guys you try to brush away when he asks, "can I show you around town?" Yet he's the only SE Asian I've met (and I've met hundreds of Thais, some of whom are U professors, some are head monks, etc) who can hold a conversation with me on SE Asian history.

Please don't underestimate the Burmese. If you go to Burma, you'll see people reading real books. If you look around Thailand, pretty much the only people you'll see reading a book, are students studying for an exam. And if you take a close look at the study book (English Language, for example) you'll likely find an average of 1 mistake per page.

[sambum]

Witnesses are most probably illegal migrant workers themselves, trapped in a very small island controlled by mafias.

Witnesses? Witnesses to what? EYEwitnesses? Why has the blogosphere which has no compunction about speculation not speculated as to what evidence witnesses Thai, Burmese, or farang might have of an exculpatory nature that they are afraid to bring forward? Why have none of these witnesses sent anonymous emails to Andy Hall that without revealing their identities but give a least some indication of what evidence they might possess?

If they are "illegal migrant workers themselves" they are not Thai or farang. Do you honestly think that they are here to make enough money to purchase a laptop or computer? And don't even think of mentioning using an Internet cafe! On Koh Tao?

[Travelman868]

"We have many disadvantages... we still have not seen the prosecutors' evidence, we just have to fight as best as we can," he added.

Just about sums it all up, doesn't it?

My understanding is that Thai Law is not very different to British Law, that being so, the defense team are entitled to view

the evidence before the case can proceed.

The police keep referring to the DNA test as being key to their case but only a week or so ago, the prosecutors office

told them to work on their case evidence.

I keep looking at the photo of the two boys and their demeanor looks wrong for murderers. I also do not believe that

those two on their own could have murdered two young people without having any injuries to themselves.

The problem that Thailand has, is that we ALL know that money speaks and there have been a number of high profile

cases where the 100% guilty party has walk away.