Thai politics: Leaders must be willing to give way for sake of reconciliation

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE
Leaders must be willing to give way for sake of reconciliation
NITIPOL KIRAVANICH

BANGKOK: -- The junta's determination to promote reconciliation by adding a new section to the charter might be an uphill task, but that task has become even tougher after a Constitutional Drafting Committee (CDC) subcommittee put the amnesty issue on the table again.

Anek Laothamatas, chairman of the CDC sub-panel responsible for chapters on national reform and reconciliation, last week suggested that amnesty cover all political protests between 2005 and 2014, and possibly include protest leaders and military officers. He said this would offer a path to true reconciliation.

Though the idea of granting amnesty only to protesters has been accepted by many sides, even those in conflict, nearly everybody is against the idea of pardoning leaders.

Every time the word "amnesty" comes up, people think about the notorious "blanket" amnesty bill pushed by Pheu Thai Party, which prompted the People's Democratic Reform Committee (PDRC) to take to the streets last year, leading to the military takeover in May.

Will granting amnesty really lead to reconciliation?

The word "reconciliation" refers to restoring mutual respect between individuals from different cultural backgrounds or re-establishing normal relations with the opposition.

"Amnesty" refers to a general pardon for offences, especially political offences, which is often granted before a trial or conviction.

Thailand has been struggling with a deep political divide for nearly a decade now, and still nobody seems to be willing to make compromises, which brings up the question - do the people, groups or even political parties, really want to reconcile? Or are the junta and government just bandying about the word "reconciliation" for effect?

In most rallies, it is usually the ordinary supporters who end up in jail, while the powerful ones leading them run free. Obviously, every rally needs supporters, but must the leaders abandon them once the goal is achieved?

Actually, this is the perfect time for leaders to come out as heroes, because if they push for amnesty to be granted to their supporters behind bars, they will come out looking like they care.

However, granting amnesty cannot always lead to true reconciliation, because it depends on the real intention of the leaders who were behind the conflicts.

Ideally, true reconciliation can be achieved when conflicting groups are willing to sacrifice their personal gains entirely. Sadly, in the real world, nobody really wants to yield or make compromises.

Both Democrat and Pheu Thai parties, as well as the red- and yellow-shirts, don't want to see protest leaders being granted amnesty, probably because nobody wants to see their opponent get away.

Unfortunately, with this mindset, it is obvious that they have no desire to reconcile.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Leaders-must-be-willing-to-give-way-for-sake-of-re-30249187.html


-- The Nation 2014-12-05

[englishoak]

Shouldnt it read ?

Some leaders must be willing to move away for sake of reconciliation

Edited December 4, 2014 by englishoak

[chooka]

Dictating how things will be done and dragging those away that speak out is hardly the road to reconciliation more like sitting in a leaky canoe in Shiter Creek.

Edited December 4, 2014 by chooka

[Mango Bob]

So this Amnesty isn't for all the people it's for Suthep and his gangs who are charged with multi offenses against the government and I am sure will include the takeover of the airport.

[NongKhaiKid]

leaders must be willing to give way... what, and lose face, not to mention status, power and other ' minor considerations ' !

[chainarong]

What about the main ingredient, the people , there's a whole divided nation out there that the so call leaders divided into Yellow and Red shirts , you are not going to get around this hate in the community , it is not going to go away , there will always be an undercurrent of hate for decades to come and to think it will go away makes you sillier than you look.

[pitrevie]

I don't think the word "give" is the problem it the word "take" and there are usually a lot more who want to "take" what does not belong to them.

[whybother]

So this Amnesty isn't for all the people it's for Suthep and his gangs who are charged with multi offenses against the government and I am sure will include the takeover of the airport.

Just to help with your reading difficulties, it will be for both sides. It will include protests by red shirts in 2007, 2009 and 2010 and yellow shirts in 2006, 2008 and 2014. The discussion is about whether it will include leaders, but most people are suggesting it shouldn't.

edit: and IMO it will do <deleted> in helping with "reconciliation".

Edited December 6, 2014 by metisdead
Profane acronym

[Robby nz]

Don't know who or what this so called amnesty is supposed to cover, what ordinary people have been or are still to be charged with political offences ?

The only recent ones that I know of that could be called ordinary are the 22 red shirts who are still in prison who have all been convicted of criminal offenses such as arson and weapons charges, the guards from 2014 who have been charged with weapons charges, the men in black who have so far been rounded up and the as yet unidentified shooters and grenade throwers.

Apart from them the only ones who have charges against then are those who can be considered leaders

Nobody should be allowed to get away with burning down buildings, shooting people or killing and maiming them with grenades, or any other crime for that matter, by saying they were politically motivated.

[ChrisY1]

With the military in control now.......who coincidently, are part of the elite of Thailand..(well..the generals at least)....who are not now, or ever in the past, been friends of the so called iliterate, uneducated rural poor who are the majority in Thailand.......how is any form of reconciliation ever going to truthfully take place?......

If and when elections are held....do we think that it will be one man, one vote?...........

[whybother]

With the military in control now.......who coincidently, are part of the elite of Thailand..(well..the generals at least)....who are not now, or ever in the past, been friends of the so called iliterate, uneducated rural poor who are the majority in Thailand.......how is any form of reconciliation ever going to truthfully take place?......

If and when elections are held....do we think that it will be one man, one vote?...........

"do we think that it will be one man, one vote?"

Yes.

[Eric Loh]

It was only the million Bangkokians that turn out to protest the amnesty. Put this through a nationwide referendum and you might see a different outcome.

[Robby nz]

It was only the million Bangkokians that turn out to protest the amnesty. Put this through a nationwide referendum and you might see a different outcome.

You obviously wernt around at the time were you.

There were people from all over the country protesting including those from red heartland, even the PT MP, commy, red shirt leader Weng abstained from voting for the bill, which was as close as a protest against it as a PT MP could get.

There were also protests in other centers outside BKK, I have photos as proof of this.

[lvr181]

"Leaders must be willing to give way for sake of reconciliation" Of course, what else would be expected?

[Eric Loh]

It was only the million Bangkokians that turn out to protest the amnesty. Put this through a nationwide referendum and you might see a different outcome.

You obviously wernt around at the time were you.

There were people from all over the country protesting including those from red heartland, even the PT MP, commy, red shirt leader Weng abstained from voting for the bill, which was as close as a protest against it as a PT MP could get.

There were also protests in other centers outside BKK, I have photos as proof of this.

The PT 2011 election platform was loudly announced to include bringing Thaksin back. People responded and gave them the majority of popular vote and that is the closest to a referendum that one can get. Photos of scattered resistance is really small bean compare to the big picture. Must give credit to Suthep to made capital gain to his people in Bangkok. To me it may not represent the nation consensus.

[whybother]

It was only the million Bangkokians that turn out to protest the amnesty. Put this through a nationwide referendum and you might see a different outcome.

You obviously wernt around at the time were you.

There were people from all over the country protesting including those from red heartland, even the PT MP, commy, red shirt leader Weng abstained from voting for the bill, which was as close as a protest against it as a PT MP could get.

There were also protests in other centers outside BKK, I have photos as proof of this.

The PT 2011 election platform was loudly announced to include bringing Thaksin back. People responded and gave them the majority of popular vote and that is the closest to a referendum that one can get. Photos of scattered resistance is really small bean compare to the big picture. Must give credit to Suthep to made capital gain to his people in Bangkok. To me it may not represent the nation consensus.

Given only 48% voted for PTP that would indicate that a majority did NOT want Thaksin back.

Of course, that is ignoring the many other reasons that people might have voted for PTP beside Thaksin.

[Eric Loh]

It was only the million Bangkokians that turn out to protest the amnesty. Put this through a nationwide referendum and you might see a different outcome.

You obviously wernt around at the time were you.

There were people from all over the country protesting including those from red heartland, even the PT MP, commy, red shirt leader Weng abstained from voting for the bill, which was as close as a protest against it as a PT MP could get.

There were also protests in other centers outside BKK, I have photos as proof of this.

The PT 2011 election platform was loudly announced to include bringing Thaksin back. People responded and gave them the majority of popular vote and that is the closest to a referendum that one can get. Photos of scattered resistance is really small bean compare to the big picture. Must give credit to Suthep to made capital gain to his people in Bangkok. To me it may not represent the nation consensus.

Given only 48% voted for PTP that would indicate that a majority did NOT want Thaksin back.

Of course, that is ignoring the many other reasons that people might have voted for PTP beside Thaksin.

That 48% gave them the majority in the legislative branch to introduce bill and that's as good as an indication of support by the people. That's all probability and all I am saying is the Bangkok protest was not indicative of the country feelings. Not judging the good or bad of the amnesty too.

[whybother]

The PT 2011 election platform was loudly announced to include bringing Thaksin back. People responded and gave them the majority of popular vote and that is the closest to a referendum that one can get. Photos of scattered resistance is really small bean compare to the big picture. Must give credit to Suthep to made capital gain to his people in Bangkok. To me it may not represent the nation consensus.

Given only 48% voted for PTP that would indicate that a majority did NOT want Thaksin back.

Of course, that is ignoring the many other reasons that people might have voted for PTP beside Thaksin.

That 48% gave them the majority in the legislative branch to introduce bill and that's as good as an indication of support by the people. That's all probability and all I am saying is the Bangkok protest was not indicative of the country feelings. Not judging the good or bad of the amnesty too.

You need to make up your mind about what you're talking about - a referendum or an election.

If it's a referendum, then 48% is not a majority, so if it "is the closest to a referendum that one can get", then it failed.

[ggold]

I don't think the word "give" is the problem it the word "take" and there are usually a lot more who want to "take" what does not belong to them.

indeed it is not about politics, It's about getting your hands on the money from government coffers.

This surely could be solved by banning all corrupt politicians from politics for life. Which means most current politicians should not be involved in charter amendments. But I doubt it will ever happen These people think they are entitled to such corrupt behaviour. TiT after all!

[ggold]

With the military in control now.......who coincidently, are part of the elite of Thailand..(well..the generals at least)....who are not now, or ever in the past, been friends of the so called iliterate, uneducated rural poor who are the majority in Thailand.......how is any form of reconciliation ever going to truthfully take place?......

If and when elections are held....do we think that it will be one man, one vote?...........

"do we think that it will be one man, one vote?"

Yes.

Actually it will be one payment for one vote! just like in the past.

[ggold]

You obviously wernt around at the time were you.

There were people from all over the country protesting including those from red heartland, even the PT MP, commy, red shirt leader Weng abstained from voting for the bill, which was as close as a protest against it as a PT MP could get.

There were also protests in other centers outside BKK, I have photos as proof of this.

The PT 2011 election platform was loudly announced to include bringing Thaksin back. People responded and gave them the majority of popular vote and that is the closest to a referendum that one can get. Photos of scattered resistance is really small bean compare to the big picture. Must give credit to Suthep to made capital gain to his people in Bangkok. To me it may not represent the nation consensus.

Given only 48% voted for PTP that would indicate that a majority did NOT want Thaksin back.

Of course, that is ignoring the many other reasons that people might have voted for PTP beside Thaksin.

That 48% gave them the majority in the legislative branch to introduce bill and that's as good as an indication of support by the people. That's all probability and all I am saying is the Bangkok protest was not indicative of the country feelings. Not judging the good or bad of the amnesty too.

That 48% gave them the majority in the legislative branch to introduce bill and that's as good as an indication of support by the people.

Not really so. How many time in more democratic countries has the winning party used that majority to push through a bill that did not have the support of the people, for that particular law? Many times.

So why would you expect Thai politicians to be whiter than white. Even in the UK the winning party gets the smallest number of votes compared to all the votes cast.

So it is not comparable to a referendum which is a vote for one particular policy for which everyone has a vote regardless of the party they support. The total opposite of elections where you vote for a party.

Edited December 5, 2014 by ggold

[Mudcrab]

Leaders must be willing to give way for sake of reconciliation

Why?? To appease the Red brethren?

NO Amnesty for anyone I say. The law was broken. The penalty should be paid. Make it a just and fair penalty for all concerned.

For the leaders.......Banned from Thai politics forever in any capacity as well as whatever normal criminal charges apply.

For everyone else, normal penalties apply. If you shot/bombed someone then the penalty will be/is severe.

I am damn sure the only people talking about amnesty and reconciliation are the political/chattering classes. The everyday Thai folk will be glad to see them all in jail.

[Chris Lawrence]

'Analysts say the impeachment proceedings are part of a wider campaign to make sure her family - who are loathed by the military and Bangkok-based royalist establishment - cannot enter office again.

"This is all part of the attempt by the junta to eliminate the Shinawatras from Thai politics," Pavin Chachavalpongpun, an expert on Thailand and staunch junta critic at Japan’s Kyoto University, told AFP.

"The junta is trying to install infrastructure, through drafting a new constitution and also through a series of pending cases, to make sure that if there is ever another election someone like Yingluck -- or someone closely associated with her -- will not be able to stand," he added.' http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Thai-parliament-sets-Yingluck-impeachment-date-30248826.html

How can you write into a constitution the banning of an entire family? Forget how you may feel about Mr T, but isn't it a bit discriminatory to say the least. So the military or the Bangkok elite can't stand him, which is a small % of the whole of Thailand?

And they want to forget about the one's that instigated the coup?

Now we all know the General hates demonstrations, but prior to the coup, he should have stepped in to stop the demonstrations; not because he was asked to but it should be the job to also protect the government and the constitution of the country.

So what does that tell you about the people behind the scene?

Usually it is the ordinary people with their necks on the line at rallies.

Until they learn to share the wealth around and everyone is equal, subjects like the OP are just a smoke screen to how to reconcile.

[Sarathi]

'Reconciliation' means the Thai population reconciling themselves to the Army as the new head of state.

[Mango Bob]

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So this Amnesty isn't for all the people it's for Suthep and his gangs who are charged with multi offenses against the government and I am sure will include the takeover of the airport.

Just to help with your reading difficulties, it will be for both sides. It will include protests by red shirts in 2007, 2009 and 2010 and yellow shirts in 2006, 2008 and 2014. The discussion is about whether it will include leaders, but most people are suggesting it shouldn't.

edit: and IMO it will do <deleted> in helping with "reconciliation".

I don't know who the hell you think you are. And why the you think you can throw your insults around. I can read between the lines here it's a yellow shirt ploy to get there leaders from facing charges at the airport and Suthep and his buddies including the mad monk out of jail.

[whybother]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

So this Amnesty isn't for all the people it's for Suthep and his gangs who are charged with multi offenses against the government and I am sure will include the takeover of the airport.

Just to help with your reading difficulties, it will be for both sides. It will include protests by red shirts in 2007, 2009 and 2010 and yellow shirts in 2006, 2008 and 2014. The discussion is about whether it will include leaders, but most people are suggesting it shouldn't.

edit: and IMO it will do SFA in helping with "reconciliation".

I don't know who the hell you think you are. And why the <deleted> you think you can throw your <deleted> insults around. I can read between the lines here it's a yellow shirt ploy to get there leaders from facing charges at the airport and Suthep and his buddies including the mad monk out of jail.

Careful there. Your tin foil hat is slipping.

[LazarusRising]

Shouldnt it read ?

Some leaders must be willing to move away for sake of reconciliation

Good luck finding a country willing to accept 1,500 coup prone Generals.

[jayboy]

With the military in control now.......who coincidently, are part of the elite of Thailand..(well..the generals at least)....who are not now, or ever in the past, been friends of the so called iliterate, uneducated rural poor who are the majority in Thailand.......how is any form of reconciliation ever going to truthfully take place?......

If and when elections are held....do we think that it will be one man, one vote?...........

"do we think that it will be one man, one vote?"

Yes.

Well let's hope so but all the evidence is against it - by which I mean an electoral system that is not distorted to give a particular result or to frustrate a particular result.A main point of Suthep's street protest and the military takeover it called for was to block the voting power of the rural majority.It would be therefore surprising if the next election was held on a basis that one man's vote was as powerful as another's.