Letter from two accused of Koh Tao murders to Daw Aung San Suu Kyi Myanmar Democracy icon

[thailandchilli]

Now that we can see the mentality of some posters and how everything needs to fit in a nice square box then I do advice not biting (although I am as guilty as anyone for taking the bait sometimes)

Edited December 15, 2014 by thailandchilli

[aimbc]

Let's make this simple, shall we?

Did the two Burmese men currently standing trial had their DNA analyzed and did the analysis result in a negative match before they were arrested?

A- Yes

B- No

C- I don't know

Let's see, has any thing been cross examined or question. Have they been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?

A- Yes

B- No

C- I don't know

Not so simple now is it?

No, it is quite simple; your answer was D) I don't know.

Boomerangutang and others claim the answer is A) Yes, they provide no support for that assertion, but still use that unfounded "fact" as a premise to their arguments.

Sorry you didn't answer my question. You expect others to answer, why can't you answer? Unless you can claim beyond the a reasonable doubt that the two are guilty and the report proves they are guilty, then don't use their statement to validate your opinion. Any one can make a statement. Would you invest all your savings in to a businesses just because some stranger told you it was the greatest thing since sliced bread?

Don't believe everything you hear. Study the facts, which has not been exposed to any one. Sorry your argument at this point is as weak as all of us. So continue debating with out referring to the police statement. Unless you have certified with your own eyes that their findings are solid. Then you can make the same claim as they have.

[catsanddogs]

catsanddogs, on 13 Dec 2014 - 14:43, said:catsanddogs, on 13 Dec 2014 - 14:43, said:

Mooner, on 13 Dec 2014 - 14:17, said:Mooner, on 13 Dec 2014 - 14:17, said:

Seems hard to believe that it was a different 3 Burmese that were obviously tested as they were seen in line and were in the first group of suspects obviously after they hunted down Chris Ware with stories of a jealous gay rage cause a Thai couldn't possibly do it. Then Nomsod and Mon who went from being caught on CCTV and having evidence against them and being cleared only then to find out there were Burmese to be announced guilty.

Your post is timely for me Mooner. I have just spent too much time on the web trying to locate the photograph and press article of Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun standing in that queue waiting to have their DNA taken - all to no avail.

I would be most grateful if someone has the link and would post it please. Thank you.

Here is the photograph. It's not a very clear image and I've seen a better one but can't find it now. It was published in the U.K. press - Sky News, Telegraph, Mail, or Mirror, but can't remember which now. It certainly shows Zaw Lin and Maung Maung who are both wearing AC Two t-shirts.

Thanks Islandlover.

[Krenjai]

Note: If we can find all three pictures...and they are comparable....I will forward them to Andy Hall..................

crimescene12.jpg

crimescene11.jpg

The wound shown in these pictures are....

A- A stab wound caused by a sharp fishhook type weapon like a punch knife or....

B- Somebody falling of a Motorbike?

If you ask that question to a 1000 people I think 997 will say A and 3 people will say B, these 3 persons are JD (of course), the prosecutor and probably (and unfortunately) the judge handling this case.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Krenjai

[catsanddogs]

Since thailandchill doesn't seem to want to answer, I repeat.

Did the two Burmese men currently standing trial had their DNA analyzed and did the analysis result in a negative match before they were arrested?

A- Yes

B- No

C- I don't know

I Think You and your chums have been "Sent to Coventry"

EDIT, I Think

Maybe, it's common for people to get defensive and engage in denial when their preconceived beliefs are proven to be wrong.

Then again it would be quite easy to prove me wrong too, just provide a credible source stating that two Burmese men now standing for trial had their DNA test result in a negative match before they were arrested.

It seems to me that the Burmese suspects were some of the first to be tested reading the reports below. There are plenty of news sources that later reported none of the many migrants tested came back as positive. You can find those yourself if you are concerned with the truth. If the B2's tests had proved positive first time round then the RTP wouldn't have waited 2 weeks to claim they had found the killers. I speculate that it took them the extra 2 weeks to somehow falsify the DNA results, gather their 'witnesses' through violence and threats, fabricate their story, and cover their backs and those of others involved.

Independent Tue 16^th Sept

The AFP later reported that three Burmese workers had been detained by police and were being questioned by officers.

Another police official, Col Prachum Ruangthong, told the Associated Press that investigators were also looking for a group of bar employees and had questioned a group of foreigners as well.

“This morning we surrounded three locations, including the residences of migrant workers, to search and collect DNA,” he said.

Phuket Gazette Sept 16th

PHUKET: Three Myanmar workers were detained on Tuesday to be questioned about the murder of two Britons on Koh Tao, Deputy Prime Minister Prawit Wongsuwan said today.

The bodies of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, were found early Monday morning with severe head wounds. A bloody hoe was found 35 meters from the murder scene.

Police will question the workers and compare DNA samples with evidence collected from the crime scene, reported The Nation.

A source said that the workers' detention came after witnesses told police that the Myanmar nationals were seen drinking alcohol at about the time the crime occurred.

Police raided a worker's bungalow near the crime scene earlier today.

Four mobile phones, one of which was a broken iPhone, were confiscated.

[thailandchilli]

Wow....good find

That one from the Nation 16th Sept:

Police will question the workers and compare DNA samples with evidence collected from the crime scene, reported The Nation.
A source said that the workers' detention came after witnesses told police that the Myanmar nationals were seen drinking alcohol at about the time the crime occurred.
Police raided a worker's bungalow near the crime scene earlier today.
Four mobile phones, one of which was a broken iPhone, were confiscated.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Myanmar-workers-arrested-in-connection-with-murder-30243385.html

Points to the current suspects without any doubt in my mind

[AleG]

Wow....good find

That one from the Nation 16th Sept:

Police will question the workers and compare DNA samples with evidence collected from the crime scene, reported The Nation.

A source said that the workers' detention came after witnesses told police that the Myanmar nationals were seen drinking alcohol at about the time the crime occurred.

Police raided a worker's bungalow near the crime scene earlier today.

Four mobile phones, one of which was a broken iPhone, were confiscated.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Myanmar-workers-arrested-in-connection-with-murder-30243385.html

Points to the current suspects without any doubt in my mind

No it doesn't, show me were in the article it identifies those workers as being the same men now on trial.

[AleG]

Let's make this simple, shall we?

Did the two Burmese men currently standing trial had their DNA analyzed and did the analysis result in a negative match before they were arrested?

A- Yes

B- No

C- I don't know

Let's see, has any thing been cross examined or question. Have they been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?

A- Yes

B- No

C- I don't know

Not so simple now is it?

No, it is quite simple; your answer was D) I don't know.

Boomerangutang and others claim the answer is A) Yes, they provide no support for that assertion, but still use that unfounded "fact" as a premise to their arguments.

Sorry you didn't answer my question. You expect others to answer, why can't you answer? Unless you can claim beyond the a reasonable doubt that the two are guilty and the report proves they are guilty, then don't use their statement to validate your opinion. Any one can make a statement. Would you invest all your savings in to a businesses just because some stranger told you it was the greatest thing since sliced bread?

Don't believe everything you hear. Study the facts, which has not been exposed to any one. Sorry your argument at this point is as weak as all of us. So continue debating with out referring to the police statement. Unless you have certified with your own eyes that their findings are solid. Then you can make the same claim as they have.

First of, if you look back you'll see I answered your question in an edit to my post about two minutes after posting it.

Second, I'm not the one making statements of fact with no basis in actual evidence, those would be the people that continue to claim that the men currently on trial were DNA tested and cleared before they were arrested, and then using that as a premise in their arguments. Why don't you lecture them about making unsupported claims?

[catsanddogs]

What is the truth about Maung Maung?

Reports say:

a. He denied any involvement.

b. He witnessed the crime and fled Koh Tao

c. He left the crime scene before the murder took place.

d. He is believed to be a witness and under police protection.

Here are some excerpts from news reports relating to him - I will post the dates and sources later.

1. Major General Kiattipong Khawsamang said two of three Burmese workers questioned by police had admitted murdering the couple. He said the other man denied involvement.

2. Earlier this week police said two suspects raped and killed Ms Witheridge while another witnessed the murder.

3. A third Myanmar national identified as Mao, who is said to have witnessed the crime, has fled Koh Tao and is still being sought.

4. “Three male Myanmar migrant workers are under police detention for investigation,” southern regional police commander Lt Gen Panya Maman said, without providing any further details.

5. He said the other man has denied involvement. Police have previously said they believe three people were involved in the attacks.

6. Thai police wasted no time in detaining three Burmese migrant workers for questioning over the double-murder of British backpackers David Miller and Hannah Witheridge in Koh Tao.

7. "The third suspect said he left the crime scene before (the) murder took place," Somyot told AFP.

8. PHUKET: Three Myanmar workers were detained on Tuesday to be questioned about the murder of two Britons on Koh Tao, Deputy Prime Minister Prawit Wongsuwan said today.

9. The third Myanmar man is believed to be a witness and is currently under police protection on Koh Tao, provincial police chief Kiattipong Khaosamang told AFP.

10. Thai police are questioning three Myanmar (Burmese) men over the murder of two British tourists on the southern resort island of Koh Tao, as their bodies were due to arrive in Bangkok for forensic tests'Three male Myanmar migrant workers are under police detention for investigation,' said southern regional police commander Panya Maman, without providing any further details. -

[catsanddogs]

Guardian excerpts: Thur 2^nd Oct

Two Burmese workers have confessed to killing British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller on a Thai holiday island, police have said.

Ms Witheridge, 23, and David Miller, 24, were found near to where they were staying on the island of Koh Tao, on September 15.

Major General Kiattipong Khawsamang said two of three Burmese workers questioned by police had admitted murdering the couple. He said the other man denied involvement.

Police have previously said they believe three people were involved in the attacks.

Police have been under pressure from the government to solve the case as Thai authorities warned the killings would damage the country's tourist industry.

Earlier this week police said two suspects raped and killed Ms Witheridge while another witnessed the murder.

Last week the Royal Thai Police said they were "confident" of making a breakthrough in the case after coming under fire for their handling of the investigation.

Lieutenant General Jaktip Chaijinda said police will wait for the results of DNA tests from the suspects to see if they match the samples. Those DNA results are expected by tomorrow at the latest, according to reports.

Independent Tue 16^th Sept

The AFP later reported that three Burmese workers had been detained by police and were being questioned by officers.

Another police official, Col Prachum Ruangthong, told the Associated Press that investigators were also looking for a group of bar employees and had questioned a group of foreigners as well.

“This morning we surrounded three locations, including the residences of migrant workers, to search and collect DNA,” he said.

Source – not permitted to say on TV – date of report 4^th Oct

Police said that Win and Zaw had confessed to raping Hannah Witheridge, 23, and bludgeoning her and David Miller, 24 to death early on Sept 15. The pair were taken to stage a re-enactment of the crime on the beach of the tourist island on Friday.

A third Myanmar national identified as Mao, who is said to have witnessed the crime, has fled Koh Tao and is still being sought.

Police said they had conclusive proof that DNA found on Witheridge matched that of the two men arrested.

The Phuket News 16^th Sept

KOH TAO: Police today (September 16) were questioning three Burmese men over the murder of two British tourists on Koh Tao, as the victims’ bodies were due to arrive in Bangkok for forensic tests.

“Three male Myanmar migrant workers are under police detention for investigation,” southern regional police commander Lt Gen Panya Maman said, without providing any further details.

Neither officer confirmed Thai television reports that police had seized an iPhone and blood-stained jeans after raiding rooms used by the Burmese suspects.

Thai Army Chief and Prime Minister Gen Prayuth Chan-O-Cha has taken an interest in the murders. “This kind of incident should not happen to anybody and it has affected our image,” he told reporters. Speaking a few hours later he said Thai authorities must tell “tourists when the safe times are to be outside. We have to help them understand”.

ITV News 3^rd Oct

Major General Kiattipong Khawsamang said that two of three Burmese workers questioned by police admitted murdering the couple.

He said the other man has denied involvement. Police have previously said they believe three people were involved in the attacks.

International Business Times 16^th September

Thai police wasted no time in detaining three Burmese migrant workers for questioning over the double-murder of British backpackers David Miller and Hannah Witheridge in Koh Tao.

Local television reports claimed bloodied jeans that belonged to Miller as well as one of the victim's iPhones were found at workers' homes as images purporting to show the suspects were broadcast across the country.

Telegraph 3^rd Oct

"Two Myanmar suspects have confessed to killing the pair," Thai national police chief Somyot Poompanmoung told AFP. "DNA test results (from the two men) confirmed that the same DNA was found in the body of the (female) victim."

The two men were among three nationals from Myanmar - formerly known as Burma - held since Thursday on suspicion of involvement in the crime.

"The third suspect said he left the crime scene before (the) murder took place," Somyot told AFP.

The Week Thur 4^th Dec

A third man who was spotted riding on a moped with the other two suspects on the night of the murder denies any involvement and says he left the crime scene before murder took place.

The three men are being held in the mainland city of Surat Thani, while police wait for a local court to issue a warrant so the men can be charged.

Phuket Gazette Sept 16th

PHUKET: Three Myanmar workers were detained on Tuesday to be questioned about the murder of two Britons on Koh Tao, Deputy Prime Minister Prawit Wongsuwan said today.

The bodies of David Miller, 24, and Hannah Witheridge, 23, were found early Monday morning with severe head wounds. A bloody hoe was found 35 meters from the murder scene.

Police will question the workers and compare DNA samples with evidence collected from the crime scene, reported The Nation.

A source said that the workers' detention came after witnesses told police that the Myanmar nationals were seen drinking alcohol at about the time the crime occurred.

Police raided a worker's bungalow near the crime scene earlier today.

Four mobile phones, one of which was a broken iPhone, were confiscated. - See more at:

Yahoo News Fri 3^rd Oct

"Two Myanmar suspects have confessed to killing the pair," Thai national police chief Somyot Poompanmoung told AFP. "DNA test results (from the two men) confirmed that the same DNA was found in the body of the (female) victim."

The accused were among three nationals from Myanmar -- formerly known as Burma -- held since Thursday on suspicion of involvement in the crime.

The third Myanmar man is believed to be a witness and is currently under police protection on Koh Tao, provincial police chief Kiattipong Khaosamang told AFP.

Sky News 16^th Sept

Thai police are questioning three Myanmar (Burmese) men over the murder of two British tourists on the southern resort island of Koh Tao, as their bodies were due to arrive in Bangkok for forensic tests'Three male Myanmar migrant workers are under police detention for investigation,' said southern regional police commander Panya Maman, without providing any further details. -

On Tuesday Thai junta chief and prime minister Prayut Chan-Ocha appeared to call into question the victims' conduct in addition to the perpetrators of the attack.

'We have to look into the behaviour of the other party too because this kind of incident should not happen to anybody and it has affected our image,' he told reporters, referring to the two tourists.

Police earlier said the pair had been seen partying at a local bar just hours before they died.

[catsanddogs]

My concerns regarding Maung Maung are echoed in an opinion from another forum relating to the investigation where one posters asks -

'How come he (Maung Maung) didn't confess under torture?'

and another poster answers -

'Could it be that he was a 'key witness' and gave testimony against the other 2 in exchange for his own freedom?'.

It was also stated in a report (which I cannot find at the moment) that Maung Mung went to the AC bar at around 5am in the morning to collect a guitar that had been left there. Can't help thinking he might have actually witnessed something - but what? And if he did witness something, who saw him witness it?

“I testified neither in favour of my friends nor the Thai police because I believe everyone should be treated equally under the law,” he said. “I have told the truth since the beginning. I would not say my friends committed that crime even if it were to cause harm to me.”

Maung Maung 15 Oct - source DVB

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murders-third-man-released-returning-to-burma-myanmar/45040.

Let's hope he hasn't changed his mind then.

Edited December 15, 2014 by catsanddogs

[catsanddogs]

Article in which Maung Maung says he went to AC bar to collect guitar.

https://www.dvb.no/news/third-burmese-said-he-did-not-witness-murder-burma-myanmar/44856

[catsanddogs]

On Tuesday Thai junta chief and prime minister Prayut Chan-Ocha appeared to call into question the victims' conduct in addition to the perpetrators of the attack.

'We have to look into the behaviour of the other party too because this kind of incident should not happen to anybody and it has affected our image,' he told reporters, referring to the two tourists.

Police earlier said the pair had been seen partying at a local bar just hours before they died.

Sky News 16th Sept.

This statement was made the day after the murders by the prime minister. When I first head it it seemed an outrageous and insensitive statement to make. But now after all that has passed in the investigation, I am left wondering whether this was not just a stupid passing remark founded on nothing, but that the 'victims' conduct'/'behaviour' could be related to an argument that took place in the bar. If Mon was allowed all over the crime scene with the police, no doubt he also had plenty to tell them about his side of the story which may have painted a bleak picture of the victims behaviour before they were murdered. Pure speculation on my part of course. Anything for justice.

[aimbc]

Let's make this simple, shall we?

Did the two Burmese men currently standing trial had their DNA analyzed and did the analysis result in a negative match before they were arrested?

A- Yes

B- No

C- I don't know

Let's see, has any thing been cross examined or question. Have they been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?

A- Yes

B- No

C- I don't know

Not so simple now is it?

No, it is quite simple; your answer was D) I don't know.

Boomerangutang and others claim the answer is A) Yes, they provide no support for that assertion, but still use that unfounded "fact" as a premise to their arguments.

Sorry you didn't answer my question. You expect others to answer, why can't you answer? Unless you can claim beyond the a reasonable doubt that the two are guilty and the report proves they are guilty, then don't use their statement to validate your opinion. Any one can make a statement. Would you invest all your savings in to a businesses just because some stranger told you it was the greatest thing since sliced bread?

Don't believe everything you hear. Study the facts, which has not been exposed to any one. Sorry your argument at this point is as weak as all of us. So continue debating with out referring to the police statement. Unless you have certified with your own eyes that their findings are solid. Then you can make the same claim as they have.

First of, if you look back you'll see I answered your question in an edit to my post about two minutes after posting it.

Second, I'm not the one making statements of fact with no basis in actual evidence, those would be the people that continue to claim that the men currently on trial were DNA tested and cleared before they were arrested, and then using that as a premise in their arguments. Why don't you lecture them about making unsupported claims?

That is what I am saying. It's hearsay at the moment. Why do you believe in a statement?

If previous statement said they are clear, and now they are not, then they should explain how they goofed up. And two seemingly correct procedure ended in two different result? Sure they are human and prime to making mistakes. If they explain why they made the mistake, then we have more over sight during the second round of testing. Which should have been by a third independent party. This now becomes the issue of credibility. So do you know why there it's a difference in test result?

Outside of the police statement and family statement, what other solid proof do you have that these two are the murderer? One thing police in Thailand knows too darn well is that most Thais are gullible. Because they are all taught to respect elders without taking back. Critical thinking piece it's not encouraged.

My only fear is that the statement by the police and the family will find these two guilty by the public. And without public support, These two will never get a fair trial.

[catsanddogs]

Wow....good find

That one from the Nation 16th Sept:

Police will question the workers and compare DNA samples with evidence collected from the crime scene, reported The Nation.

A source said that the workers' detention came after witnesses told police that the Myanmar nationals were seen drinking alcohol at about the time the crime occurred.

Police raided a worker's bungalow near the crime scene earlier today.

Four mobile phones, one of which was a broken iPhone, were confiscated.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Myanmar-workers-arrested-in-connection-with-murder-30243385.html

Points to the current suspects without any doubt in my mind

Ditto.

[AleG]

That is what I am saying. It's hearsay at the moment. Why do you believe in a statement?

If previous statement said they are clear, and now they are not, then they should explain how they goofed up. And two seemingly correct procedure ended in two different result? Sure they are human and prime to making mistakes. If they explain why they made the mistake, then we have more over sight during the second round of testing. Which should have been by a third independent party. This now becomes the issue of credibility. So do you know why there it's a difference in test result?

Outside of the police statement and family statement, what other solid proof do you have that these two are the murderer? One thing police in Thailand knows too darn well is that most Thais are gullible. Because they are all taught to respect elders without taking back. Critical thinking piece it's not encouraged.

My only fear is that the statement by the police and the family will find these two guilty by the public. And without public support, These two will never get a fair trial.

"If previous statement said they are clear, and now they are not"

There is no statement from anyone but people peddling conspiracies in social media claiming that. See post #421 for an example.

They made it up (they being the conspiracy theory peddlers), they took one statement saying that a group of Burmese men were cleared in a DNA test, another statement saying that the police had a DNA match after the current accused were arrested and from that they conflated things into "(in a)previous statement said they are clear, and now they are not" without a shred of an indication that the Burmese men cleared by DNA testing are the same that later were arrested.

Please look up in the thread who is making that claim, and their complete inability to substantiate it with an actual citation.

[Oscar2]

So now we have 2 sets of 3 "guitar men"? I set of 3 that they questioned and released, and another set of 3 that they kept looking for? Sounds like they shouldn't have let our guitar playing friend Sean go (sorry - I meant to say - aided him in leaving) He might have been playing in a trio on the beach that night!

It's a bit too convenient for me that McAnna was in bed the morning of the murders, esp in light of what he has said on FB - '

'I know you tried to save her'

And reports that he was witness to Hannah being hassled by the AC bar manager.

So yes, he could have been on the beach playing guitar that morning. He could have seen what happened, or he could have been involved. Bar manager and policeman friend wanted him dead for some reason if McAnna's words are to be believed.

And three Burmese men playing guitar on the morning of the murders would be perfect scapegoats for the killers. Easy to spread rumours if you are thick with the police, or a policeman yourself, and have money. The fact that the 3rd Burmese who I understand to be Maung Maung is not being held leads me to speculate that he may have witnessed the crime. It was reported that he went back to the AC bar at around 5pm to fetch a guitar. What did he see on that journey? Where is he now? Is he going to be remunerated to testify that his friends committed the murders?

"I know you tried to save her"..........too convenient.......well yes indeed!

What f* was he taking about? He knows? How does he know? He was sleeping as per his own statement, so how does he know David tried to save her? If David & Hannah were about to have sex and somebody hit him with a hoe from behind (which is the RTP version, correct?) then this statement of Sean does not make sense at all.

If however the scenario is true he heard/saw something and got confronted with a nice stab wound in his arm with the message , "get the fuk out of here. You didn't see anything, you understand?!" as per Boomerangutang scenario that Sean's statement does make a lot of sense suddenly. In that case, YES, he knows David tried to save her (because he saw/heard it).

BTW that wound on his arm was very similar to David his wounds. A motorbike accident? Is he serious? I think he had the guitar in his hand as he approached the crime scene (50 meters away?) possibly as a sort of a defense weapon (explains the blood spray pattern on the guitar) when he got stabbed. I think he ran away knowing what was going down there fearing for his own life (rightfully so). I also believe he must have recognized one or two (Mon?), this turned out to be a severe problem, the rest we know.......

IMHO of course!

that wound was probably from the stingray tail bone ring. it is identical to the wounds on the body of the Thai lady who was attacked by the gang member wearing the ring - who also tried to rape her.

i forgot to say earlier that said rapist was [coincidentally] photographed with one or both of the murder victims at a party at one of the KT bars. i'm not going to look for it but it's out there.

[Oscar2]

already posted.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Oscar2

[boomerangutang]

Never was their a negative match -- this is rehashing old conspiracy theories already proved inaccurate and covered numerous times .... probably already once or twice in this thread alone not to mention numerous others and certainly already pointed out to Boomrang numerous times.

I recall newspaper articles conveying statements by RTP that; 100 (or was it 200) Burmese were DNA tested early on in the investigation, and none matched the crime scene. I'm not going to spend a lot of effort finding the exact quotes and datelines, but I hope attorneys for the defendants are doing such things. Note, this was during the time when Nomsod maintained his refusal to submit for a DNA test. Of course Nomsod is from a rich Thai family, and all Burmese migrants are at the bottom rung of the social ladder, so anyone can see who is privileged (dare I say 'untouchable') enough to refuse DNA tests, and who isn't. If over 100 poor Burmese were compelled to submit to DNA typing, then surely the 2 or 3 Burmese who work at AC bar AND who admitted partying on the beach in the vicinity of the murder scene would be among the first in line. Speaking of lines, there's a photo of a long line of Burmese migrants lining up to get their DNA tested, and at least one of the B2 (the non pretty-boy) is seen in that queue.

If the defense can show without a reasonable doubt that the defendants were DNA tested initially and cleared, then days later were DNA tested and matched the crime DNA, then that, in itself should get the case thrown out. This issue is also why Headman shielders (cop echoers) are spooked about this issue. If true (which I think it is), it's further proof of a frame-up.

[jdinasia]

On Tuesday Thai junta chief and prime minister Prayut Chan-Ocha appeared to call into question the victims' conduct in addition to the perpetrators of the attack.

'We have to look into the behaviour of the other party too because this kind of incident should not happen to anybody and it has affected our image,' he told reporters, referring to the two tourists.

Police earlier said the pair had been seen partying at a local bar just hours before they died.

Sky News 16th Sept.

This statement was made the day after the murders by the prime minister. When I first head it it seemed an outrageous and insensitive statement to make. But now after all that has passed in the investigation, I am left wondering whether this was not just a stupid passing remark founded on nothing, but that the 'victims' conduct'/'behaviour' could be related to an argument that took place in the bar. If Mon was allowed all over the crime scene with the police, no doubt he also had plenty to tell them about his side of the story which may have painted a bleak picture of the victims behaviour before they were murdered. Pure speculation on my part of course. Anything for justice.

How does "pure speculation" benefit justice?

Facts benefit justice, pure speculation detracts from justice.

[thailandchilli]

Cross posting here as its the first time I've noticed a source saying that the victims were at a party on the beach!

There's a lot we don't know yet about the prelude to the murders:

Miller and Witheridge were seen partying on the beach with a group of about six people the night they were murdered, the source said.

Witheridge, meanwhile, was dragged away from the first attack spot, said the same police officer.

The officer said Witheridge did manage to run for some distance but was hit repeatedly in the face with a hoe which suggested whoever attacked her could have held a personal grudge against her.

https://www.dvb.no/n...a-myanmar/44236

[catsanddogs]

Never was their a negative match -- this is rehashing old conspiracy theories already proved inaccurate and covered numerous times .... probably already once or twice in this thread alone not to mention numerous others and certainly already pointed out to Boomrang numerous times.

I recall newspaper articles conveying statements by RTP that; 100 (or was it 200) Burmese were DNA tested early on in the investigation, and none matched the crime scene. I'm not going to spend a lot of effort finding the exact quotes and datelines, but I hope attorneys for the defendants are doing such things. Note, this was during the time when Nomsod maintained his refusal to submit for a DNA test. Of course Nomsod is from a rich Thai family, and all Burmese migrants are at the bottom rung of the social ladder, so anyone can see who is privileged (dare I say 'untouchable') enough to refuse DNA tests, and who isn't. If over 100 poor Burmese were compelled to submit to DNA typing, then surely the 2 or 3 Burmese who work at AC bar AND who admitted partying on the beach in the vicinity of the murder scene would be among the first in line. Speaking of lines, there's a photo of a long line of Burmese migrants lining up to get their DNA tested, and at least one of the B2 (the non pretty-boy) is seen in that queue.

If the defense can show without a reasonable doubt that the defendants were DNA tested initially and cleared, then days later were DNA tested and matched the crime DNA, then that, in itself should get the case thrown out. This issue is also why Headman shielders (cop echoers) are spooked about this issue. If true (which I think it is), it's further proof of a frame-up.

They would have been tested at the first round, no doubt in my mind about that. That's how it was possible to frame them with the initial DNA sample they had already taken from them. The phone would already have been planted at their accommodation by then. Whoever committed the murders would have seen them singing/playing on the beach and hey presto the perfect scapegoats. Take note that after they were interrogated and police said they had enough evidence to indict them, (Oct 2nd was it?) the only thing police were waiting for to 'prove' (the next day - and within 14 hours was it?) they were the guilty party were the DNA results. If the B2 had not had confessed to the murders then the police would not have announced a match. Then they forced them to humiliate themselves in front of the world by re-enacting what they had supposedly done. The puppeteers guiding hands, along with their directions - the perplexed faces of the B2. The hard hats and body vests for God's sake. Did any of the onlookers attempt to harm the B2 in anyway? No. If the RTP had have had more time before the rushed re-enactment no doubt they would have been able to pay some bystanders to chuck a few things at the B2 and scream obscenities.

[Krenjai]

Never was their a negative match -- this is rehashing old conspiracy theories already proved inaccurate and covered numerous times .... probably already once or twice in this thread alone not to mention numerous others and certainly already pointed out to Boomrang numerous times.

I recall newspaper articles conveying statements by RTP that; 100 (or was it 200) Burmese were DNA tested early on in the investigation, and none matched the crime scene. I'm not going to spend a lot of effort finding the exact quotes and datelines, but I hope attorneys for the defendants are doing such things. Note, this was during the time when Nomsod maintained his refusal to submit for a DNA test. Of course Nomsod is from a rich Thai family, and all Burmese migrants are at the bottom rung of the social ladder, so anyone can see who is privileged (dare I say 'untouchable') enough to refuse DNA tests, and who isn't. If over 100 poor Burmese were compelled to submit to DNA typing, then surely the 2 or 3 Burmese who work at AC bar AND who admitted partying on the beach in the vicinity of the murder scene would be among the first in line. Speaking of lines, there's a photo of a long line of Burmese migrants lining up to get their DNA tested, and at least one of the B2 (the non pretty-boy) is seen in that queue.

If the defense can show without a reasonable doubt that the defendants were DNA tested initially and cleared, then days later were DNA tested and matched the crime DNA, then that, in itself should get the case thrown out. This issue is also why Headman shielders (cop echoers) are spooked about this issue. If true (which I think it is), it's further proof of a frame-up.

They would have been tested at the first round, no doubt in my mind about that. That's how it was possible to frame them with the initial DNA sample they had already taken from them. The phone would already have been planted at their accommodation by then. Whoever committed the murders would have seen them singing/playing on the beach and hey presto the perfect scapegoats. Take note that after they were interrogated and police said they had enough evidence to indict them, (Oct 2nd was it?) the only thing police were waiting for to 'prove' (the next day - and within 14 hours was it?) they were the guilty party were the DNA results. If the B2 had not had confessed to the murders then the police would not have announced a match. Then they forced them to humiliate themselves in front of the world by re-enacting what they had supposedly done. The puppeteers guiding hands, along with their directions - the perplexed faces of the B2. The hard hats and body vests for God's sake. Did any of the onlookers attempt to harm the B2 in anyway? No. If the RTP had have had more time before the rushed re-enactment no doubt they would have been able to pay some bystanders to chuck a few things at the B2 and scream obscenities.

Of course they were tested at the first round (see link below), as you say, they worked at the AC bar and even admitted being near the crime scene at the beach. There was NO MATCH period! Anybody that thinks different is IMO completely out their mind. Unfortunately they were the perfect scapegoats for Captain Eureka.

It has been pointed out here how easy it is to swap DNA samples and IMHO these B2 are 1000% not guilty. B3 said they were sleeping like babies around 5.00am, they didn't flee the island, just went on with their work the next day and had no bruises or scratches whatsoever. Not one microscopic bit of blood was found on them nor found at their room ever.

Anybody involved in this cover up should be locked away for a very very long time and the people responsible for this crime, I expect around 3 to 4 wannabee badboys partying with Mon & Nomsod, should be locked away for-good. Free the B2, NOW!

http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-222707-0-29886800-1418613273.jpg

Edited December 15, 2014 by Krenjai

[Gweiloman]

Of course they were tested at the first round (see link below), as you say, they worked at the AC bar and even admitted being near the crime scene at the beach. There was NO MATCH period! Anybody that thinks different is IMO completely out their mind. Unfortunately they were the perfect scapegoats for Captain Eureka.

It has been pointed out here how easy it is to swap DNA samples and IMHO these B2 are 1000% not guilty. B3 said they were sleeping like babies around 5.00am, they didn't flee the island, just went on with their work the next day and had no bruises or scratches whatsoever. Not one microscopic bit of blood was found on them nor found at their room ever.

Anybody involved in this cover up should be locked away for a very very long time and the people responsible for this crime, I expect around 3 to 4 wannabee badboys partying with Mon & Nomsod, should be locked away for-good. Free the B2, NOW!

http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-222707-0-29886800-1418613273.jpg

I think that we can safely say that no blood (from either of the victims) were found on them (presumably, they would have had showers / baths from the time of the crime till their arrest) but we do not know for sure that the RTP did not "discover" blood in their rooms.

This could well be another piece of "evidence" that "appears strong and convincing"

p/s: note that use of apostrophes (hope I got the spelling right) and make of them whatever you will

[aimbc]

On Tuesday Thai junta chief and prime minister Prayut Chan-Ocha appeared to call into question the victims' conduct in addition to the perpetrators of the attack.

'We have to look into the behaviour of the other party too because this kind of incident should not happen to anybody and it has affected our image,' he told reporters, referring to the two tourists.

Police earlier said the pair had been seen partying at a local bar just hours before they died.

Sky News 16th Sept.

This statement was made the day after the murders by the prime minister. When I first head it it seemed an outrageous and insensitive statement to make. But now after all that has passed in the investigation, I am left wondering whether this was not just a stupid passing remark founded on nothing, but that the 'victims' conduct'/'behaviour' could be related to an argument that took place in the bar. If Mon was allowed all over the crime scene with the police, no doubt he also had plenty to tell them about his side of the story which may have painted a bleak picture of the victims behaviour before they were murdered. Pure speculation on my part of course. Anything for justice.

How does "pure speculation" benefit justice?

Facts benefit justice, pure speculation detracts from justice.

You keep quoting facts. Facts that police made a statement means that these two are guilty does not make them guilty. Are you blind? Not even you have the proof to prove that the police have the right guy. So stop telling everyone that these two are guilty. You are speculating that the police report is solid and that they have the right person.

[AleG]

They would have been tested at the first round, no doubt in my mind about that. That's how it was possible to frame them with the initial DNA sample they had already taken from them. The phone would already have been planted at their accommodation by then. Whoever committed the murders would have seen them singing/playing on the beach and hey presto the perfect scapegoats. Take note that after they were interrogated and police said they had enough evidence to indict them, (Oct 2nd was it?) the only thing police were waiting for to 'prove' (the next day - and within 14 hours was it?) they were the guilty party were the DNA results. If the B2 had not had confessed to the murders then the police would not have announced a match. Then they forced them to humiliate themselves in front of the world by re-enacting what they had supposedly done. The puppeteers guiding hands, along with their directions - the perplexed faces of the B2. The hard hats and body vests for God's sake. Did any of the onlookers attempt to harm the B2 in anyway? No. If the RTP had have had more time before the rushed re-enactment no doubt they would have been able to pay some bystanders to chuck a few things at the B2 and scream obscenities.

Of course they were tested at the first round (see link below), as you say, they worked at the AC bar and even admitted being near the crime scene at the beach. There was NO MATCH period! Anybody that thinks different is IMO completely out their mind. Unfortunately they were the perfect scapegoats for Captain Eureka.

It has been pointed out here how easy it is to swap DNA samples and IMHO these B2 are 1000% not guilty. B3 said they were sleeping like babies around 5.00am, they didn't flee the island, just went on with their work the next day and had no bruises or scratches whatsoever. Not one microscopic bit of blood was found on them nor found at their room ever.

Anybody involved in this cover up should be locked away for a very very long time and the people responsible for this crime, I expect around 3 to 4 wannabee badboys partying with Mon & Nomsod, should be locked away for-good. Free the B2, NOW!

http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-222707-0-29886800-1418613273.jpg

Sorry to rain in your speculative parade, but you have absolutely no idea if the results of the DNA samples were completed before they were arrested, as I have pointed out over, and over again.

Second, just because you want to believe the DNA was swapped it doesn't make it true, specially because the samples taken from them didn't include semen; third, one of the accused tried to flee the island and finally you also have no idea if they had any scratches, bruises or clothing with blood.

Based on that big ball of bo**ocks you want the men to walk free without going through a trial were the actual evidence, as opposed to your make believe world of fantasy, will be presented and examined.

[Krenjai]

Of course they were tested at the first round (see link below), as you say, they worked at the AC bar and even admitted being near the crime scene at the beach. There was NO MATCH period! Anybody that thinks different is IMO completely out their mind. Unfortunately they were the perfect scapegoats for Captain Eureka.

It has been pointed out here how easy it is to swap DNA samples and IMHO these B2 are 1000% not guilty. B3 said they were sleeping like babies around 5.00am, they didn't flee the island, just went on with their work the next day and had no bruises or scratches whatsoever. Not one microscopic bit of blood was found on them nor found at their room ever.

Anybody involved in this cover up should be locked away for a very very long time and the people responsible for this crime, I expect around 3 to 4 wannabee badboys partying with Mon & Nomsod, should be locked away for-good. Free the B2, NOW!

http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-222707-0-29886800-1418613273.jpg

I think that we can safely say that no blood (from either of the victims) were found on them (presumably, they would have had showers / baths from the time of the crime till their arrest) but we do not know for sure that the RTP did not "discover" blood in their rooms.

This could well be another piece of "evidence" that "appears strong and convincing"

p/s: note that use of apostrophes (hope I got the spelling right) and make of them whatever you will

Do you really believe the RTP would NOT have mentioned that fact, if true after ALL they have said in the media? Pretty naif!

Edited December 15, 2014 by Krenjai

[Krenjai]

They would have been tested at the first round, no doubt in my mind about that. That's how it was possible to frame them with the initial DNA sample they had already taken from them. The phone would already have been planted at their accommodation by then. Whoever committed the murders would have seen them singing/playing on the beach and hey presto the perfect scapegoats. Take note that after they were interrogated and police said they had enough evidence to indict them, (Oct 2nd was it?) the only thing police were waiting for to 'prove' (the next day - and within 14 hours was it?) they were the guilty party were the DNA results. If the B2 had not had confessed to the murders then the police would not have announced a match. Then they forced them to humiliate themselves in front of the world by re-enacting what they had supposedly done. The puppeteers guiding hands, along with their directions - the perplexed faces of the B2. The hard hats and body vests for God's sake. Did any of the onlookers attempt to harm the B2 in anyway? No. If the RTP had have had more time before the rushed re-enactment no doubt they would have been able to pay some bystanders to chuck a few things at the B2 and scream obscenities.

Of course they were tested at the first round (see link below), as you say, they worked at the AC bar and even admitted being near the crime scene at the beach. There was NO MATCH period! Anybody that thinks different is IMO completely out their mind. Unfortunately they were the perfect scapegoats for Captain Eureka.

It has been pointed out here how easy it is to swap DNA samples and IMHO these B2 are 1000% not guilty. B3 said they were sleeping like babies around 5.00am, they didn't flee the island, just went on with their work the next day and had no bruises or scratches whatsoever. Not one microscopic bit of blood was found on them nor found at their room ever.

Anybody involved in this cover up should be locked away for a very very long time and the people responsible for this crime, I expect around 3 to 4 wannabee badboys partying with Mon & Nomsod, should be locked away for-good. Free the B2, NOW!

http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-222707-0-29886800-1418613273.jpg

Sorry to rain in your speculative parade, but you have absolutely no idea if the results of the DNA samples were completed before they were arrested, as I have pointed out over, and over again.

Second, just because you want to believe the DNA was swapped it doesn't make it true, specially because the samples taken from them didn't include semen; third, one of the accused tried to flee the island and finally you also have no idea if they had any scratches, bruises or clothing with blood.

Based on that big ball of bo**ocks you want the men to walk free without going through a trial were the actual evidence, as opposed to your make believe world of fantasy, will be presented and examined.

Same for you, if they had scratches, bruises or clothing with blood, Do you really believe the RTP would NOT have mentioned those facts if true, after all they have said in the media? Pretty naif! They should be freed because the trial is a charade, it is fixed, and a disgrace!

[Willy Eckerslike]

Of course they were tested at the first round (see link below), as you say, they worked at the AC bar and even admitted being near the crime scene at the beach. There was NO MATCH period! Anybody that thinks different is IMO completely out their mind. Unfortunately they were the perfect scapegoats for Captain Eureka.

It has been pointed out here how easy it is to swap DNA samples and IMHO these B2 are 1000% not guilty. B3 said they were sleeping like babies around 5.00am, they didn't flee the island, just went on with their work the next day and had no bruises or scratches whatsoever. Not one microscopic bit of blood was found on them nor found at their room ever.

Anybody involved in this cover up should be locked away for a very very long time and the people responsible for this crime, I expect around 3 to 4 wannabee badboys partying with Mon & Nomsod, should be locked away for-good. Free the B2, NOW!

http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-222707-0-29886800-1418613273.jpg

I think that we can safely say that no blood (from either of the victims) were found on them (presumably, they would have had showers / baths from the time of the crime till their arrest) but we do not know for sure that the RTP did not "discover" blood in their rooms.

This could well be another piece of "evidence" that "appears strong and convincing"

p/s: note that use of apostrophes (hope I got the spelling right) and make of them whatever you will

Do you really believe the RTP would NOT have mentioned that fact, if true after ALL they have said in the media? Pretty naif!

The boy's room was only one of the few places visited by the Brit police during their visit to Koh Tao....................Who knows why???

[AleG]

Of course they were tested at the first round (see link below), as you say, they worked at the AC bar and even admitted being near the crime scene at the beach. There was NO MATCH period! Anybody that thinks different is IMO completely out their mind. Unfortunately they were the perfect scapegoats for Captain Eureka.

It has been pointed out here how easy it is to swap DNA samples and IMHO these B2 are 1000% not guilty. B3 said they were sleeping like babies around 5.00am, they didn't flee the island, just went on with their work the next day and had no bruises or scratches whatsoever. Not one microscopic bit of blood was found on them nor found at their room ever.

Anybody involved in this cover up should be locked away for a very very long time and the people responsible for this crime, I expect around 3 to 4 wannabee badboys partying with Mon & Nomsod, should be locked away for-good. Free the B2, NOW!

http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/uploads/monthly_12_2014/post-222707-0-29886800-1418613273.jpg

Sorry to rain in your speculative parade, but you have absolutely no idea if the results of the DNA samples were completed before they were arrested, as I have pointed out over, and over again.

Second, just because you want to believe the DNA was swapped it doesn't make it true, specially because the samples taken from them didn't include semen; third, one of the accused tried to flee the island and finally you also have no idea if they had any scratches, bruises or clothing with blood.

Based on that big ball of bo**ocks you want the men to walk free without going through a trial were the actual evidence, as opposed to your make believe world of fantasy, will be presented and examined.

Same for you, if they had scratches, bruises or clothing with blood, Do you really believe the RTP would NOT have mentioned those facts if true, after all they have said in the media? Pretty naif! They should be freed because the trial is a charade, it is fixed, and a disgrace!

Don't pretend to care about facts, you clearly don't; if you did you'd like to see the evidence presented in court.

After all, if the case is half as full of holes as the conspiracy theorists insist it should be a piece of cake for the defense to get an acquittal, so why so nervous about it?