Letter from two accused of Koh Tao murders to Daw Aung San Suu Kyi Myanmar Democracy icon

[AleG]

Think your post over, sort out what you are trying to say and then try again.

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Link please to anywhere that says the physical evidence is damning...............

Matching DNA is as damning evidence as you can get. Do you need a link to the police claiming the DNA matches that of the suspects?

[Willy Eckerslike]

Think your post over, sort out what you are trying to say and then try again.

555555555555555555555555555555555555555

Link please to anywhere that says the physical evidence is damning...............

Matching DNA is as damning evidence as you can get. Do you need a link to the police claiming the DNA matches that of the suspects?

EDIT, You are not worth arguing with

Edited December 18, 2014 by Willy Eckerslike

[AleG]

Link please to where it is reported.......................as you stated...............................and I quote..... "if the physical evidence is as damning as it is reported"

I don't know if you are trying to be funny or smart, either way you are failing.

[boomerangutang]

I am not sure that the confessions to the HRC commissioner will not be used in the trial.

Two negatives = a positive. Would this reflect your sentiment?... 'I am sure (or I assume) that the confessions to the HRC commissioner will be used in the trial.' Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

Anyhow, if the purported confession to the HRC commissioner were admitted as evidence, it would be interesting to get an up-close look at what exactly was said. For starters, there are at least 2 languages involved: Burmese and Thai and possibly a 3rd: English (I've observed Burmese and Thai conversing, and they use English). Was the Burmese Pancake Man continuing to translate, as he had been for the days prior? The Pancake Man is subjective, as proven by his words and action during the interrogation under duress on the 1st day the Burmese in the news. The B2 said they were most afraid of him, and he's from a rival ethnic faction to the B2.

Also, it would be interesting to gauge precisely how (and with what words) the question was asked, and the exact response. If the question was, "Did you sign the confession?" And the answer was "yes." ....then it can be surmised that the B2 were admitting guilt.

What would be really interesting: a complete video of the initial interrogations, where the B3 claim they were under duress. A couple little notes along with that: torture is not difficult which leaves no physical marks. Give me two live wires out of a socket, and a man's family jewels hanging down, and I can get that person singing Ave Maria in a very high key, within a minute. And the threat of torture is real close to torture itself.

Thais have an expression: "Kill the chicken to scare the monkey."

[jdinasia]

They also confessed to the legal team from the Myanmar embassy

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

Read the whole thing.

[Krenjai]

http://www.irrawaddy.org/burma/koh-tao-suspects-innocent-govt-investigation-team.html

RANGOON — A team formed by the Burmese government to investigate the Koh Tao case has announced that it is confident the two Burmese nationals accused of the double murder are innocent of the crime.

Three members of a special support team operating out of the Burmese Embassy in Thailand told a press conference on Thursday that Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun, both 21, would be exonerated of the September murder of British tourists Hannah Witheridge and David Miller in Koh Tao, but it will take time, money and effort for the truth to be fully revealed.

“However the Thai judiciary decides on the case, it is our belief that these two kids did not commit the crime,” said Htoo Chit, a spokesman for the investigation. “According to what we know and eyewitness information we have gathered, we believe they are innocent.”

As a longtime migrant rights activist and executive director of the Foundation for Education and Development, Htoo Chit said that the case against the pair had important ramifications for migrant workers in Thailand from across the region.

“This case is not only about Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun,” he said. “This is also about protecting the rights of millions of migrants from Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar who came to work in Thailand due to economic hardship.”

Aung Myo Thant, a Burmese lawyer who is part of the Burmese Embassy’s special support team for the defendants, told the press conference that the translator used during the police interrogation of the suspects falsely claimed to be a representative of the embassy, and told the suspects that they would be subject to a lighter penalty if they admitted their guilt.

“According to the Thai law, the translator used in Police station and court must hold a certificate recognized by the state,” he said. “But the translators used in Surat Thani and in Koh Samui had no accreditation.”

The investigating team said they had identified at least three key witnesses for the defense case in Rakhine State, Sagaing Division and Tenasserim Division, but they are unwilling to testify for fear it will jeopardize their future chances of working in Thailand.

“Cooperation from migrants living at [Koh Tao] is also weak,” said Htoo Chit. “They could be threatened. This is our main challenge. If a witness came forward who knew the events and testified, this case could be turned upside down.”

The Thai National Human Rights Commission, Lawyers Council of Thailand and various individuals have also assisted the Burmese government’s investigating team in locating witnesses. Htoo Chit expressed confidence that the upcoming trial would vindicate the pair if conducted fairly.

“We will win if this case is conducted with justice under the rule of law,” Htoo Chit said.

Zaw Lin and Win Zaw Htun were indicted on Dec. 4 and pleaded not guilty to all charges. A preliminary hearing for the pair will be held on Dec. 26.

[Krenjai]

http://myanmarinternationaltv.com/news/koh-tao-murders-update-next-trial-set-december-26

Inquisitor, Special Representative Committee, Kyaw Thaung: We have some evidences. But some witnesses are migrant workers. They need protection for safety from Myanmar Government so that they can show up on trial. Most of them are afraid of their bosses and polices in Thailand. I'm confident to say the two accused Myanmar Migrant workers are innocent according to the evidences we have.

[Krenjai]

http://www.dvb.no/dvb-video/koh-tao-murders-accused-innocent-say-burmese-investigators/46677

Video!

[Krenjai]

I certainly hope they have located some eyewitnesses and even though they may not want to come forward I'll bet you Mon & Nomsod need all the pampers they can get in 7-11 cause they will be sh*tting in their pants!

[thailandchilli]

Cheers Krenjai, here's the vid

Edited December 18, 2014 by thailandchilli

[sambum]

You logic is flawed, "you don't know if it's not true" is a fallacy. I don't know that you are not, let's say, a bank robber, should I then assume that you are as the default position? Of course not, it's a ridiculous line of reasoning.

The people claiming that there is a conspiracy to hide the truth and stitch up the Burmese have the onus of supporting their claim, it's extremely easy to make things up and then ask people "prove me wrong", but the only thing that proves is that they can't prove their case using actual evidence and facts.

Okay, start with viewing the re-enactment scene (video posted on the LA site) which was unlawfully directed by the RTP. (You're probably aware that the RTP are not permitted to engage with the suspects during a re-enactment). Unless the B2 are very good actors, there is enough visual evidence to conclude that they knew nothing about how they were supposed to have committed the murders. for example, striking the David actor with a dustpan hoe is a fallacy as the actual hoe didn't have any of David's DNA on it, as admitted by the RTP.

I would suggest any reasonable person watching this would start to question the integrity of the RTP. On the balance of probability, two scapegoats were found to carry the can, and wrap up the investigation.

So your argument hinges on the accused not playing along with the reconstruction; did it occur to you that they have strong motives to discredit the process by doing so?

In any case, obviously the police thought they have enough evidence to arrest them men before the reconstruction, so the case will be based on that evidence, rather than the reconstruction.

So why bother having the reconstruction anyway? And as Stephen Terry said, if there was none of David's DNA on the hoe, why strike the actor David with a dustpan hoe?

[AleG]

So your argument hinges on the accused not playing along with the reconstruction; did it occur to you that they have strong motives to discredit the process by doing so?

In any case, obviously the police thought they have enough evidence to arrest them men before the reconstruction, so the case will be based on that evidence, rather than the reconstruction.

So why bother having the reconstruction anyway? And as Stephen Terry said, if there was none of David's DNA on the hoe, why strike the actor David with a dustpan hoe?

Why? probably for self promotion, secondarily they may have expected to learn something from it. Why the dustpan twice? maybe that's all they had at hand, maybe they didn't remember all the details (they claimed to had been drunk at the time after all), who knows?, so again, the evidence presented in court is what will decide the case.

[stephen terry]

Think your post over, sort out what you are trying to say and then try again.

555555555555555555555555555555555555555

Link please to anywhere that says the physical evidence is damning...............

Matching DNA is as damning evidence as you can get. Do you need a link to the police claiming the DNA matches that of the suspects?

Ha, ha. You really believe that this is factual? You must be naive. The RTP have constructed the 'evidence'.

[stephen terry]

So your argument hinges on the accused not playing along with the reconstruction; did it occur to you that they have strong motives to discredit the process by doing so?

In any case, obviously the police thought they have enough evidence to arrest them men before the reconstruction, so the case will be based on that evidence, rather than the reconstruction.

So why bother having the reconstruction anyway? And as Stephen Terry said, if there was none of David's DNA on the hoe, why strike the actor David with a dustpan hoe?

Why? probably for self promotion, secondarily they may have expected to learn something from it. Why the dustpan twice? maybe that's all they had at hand, maybe they didn't remember all the details (they claimed to had been drunk at the time after all), who knows?, so again, the evidence presented in court is what will decide the case.

Oh, come on. You really believe the crap you posted?

[aimbc]

Think your post over, sort out what you are trying to say and then try again.

555555555555555555555555555555555555555

Link please to anywhere that says the physical evidence is damning...............

Matching DNA is as damning evidence as you can get. Do you need a link to the police claiming the DNA matches that of the suspects?

Ha, ha. You really believe that this is factual? You must be naive. The RTP have constructed the 'evidence'.

Some people are gullible and that is what the police hopes will happen. Evidence that it works. Police aren't as dumb I guess....my bad. Edited December 18, 2014 by aimbc

[thailandchilli]

So your argument hinges on the accused not playing along with the reconstruction; did it occur to you that they have strong motives to discredit the process by doing so?

In any case, obviously the police thought they have enough evidence to arrest them men before the reconstruction, so the case will be based on that evidence, rather than the reconstruction.

So why bother having the reconstruction anyway? And as Stephen Terry said, if there was none of David's DNA on the hoe, why strike the actor David with a dustpan hoe?

Why? probably for self promotion, secondarily they may have expected to learn something from it. Why the dustpan twice? maybe that's all they had at hand, maybe they didn't remember all the details (they claimed to had been drunk at the time after all), who knows?, so again, the evidence presented in court is what will decide the case.

Brilliant keep it up AleG just as well they didnt have feather duster to hand also

Edited December 18, 2014 by thailandchilli

[AleG]

Matching DNA is as damning evidence as you can get. Do you need a link to the police claiming the DNA matches that of the suspects?

Ha, ha. You really believe that this is factual? You must be naive. The RTP have constructed the 'evidence'.

No, I'm not naive, for example it would take a lot more than an anonymous person on the internet talking about things he probably didn't think through or has real knowledge of to convince me of the extraordinary claim that the DNA evidence was fabricated.

Don't bother with posting speculations, try to think it through. If you just can't think past "they swapped the results" you are not thinking enough.

[stephen terry]

They also confessed to the legal team from the Myanmar embassy

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

Read the whole thing.

This is history. Not the current situation. Please don't deliberately influence new posters.

[stephen terry]

Matching DNA is as damning evidence as you can get. Do you need a link to the police claiming the DNA matches that of the suspects?

Ha, ha. You really believe that this is factual? You must be naive. The RTP have constructed the 'evidence'.

No, I'm not naive, for example it would take a lot more than an anonymous person on the internet talking about things he probably didn't think through or has real knowledge of to convince me of the extraordinary claim that the DNA evidence was fabricated.

Don't bother with posting speculations, try to think it through. If you just can't think past "they swapped the results" you are not thinking enough.

The trouble is, you believe the RTP is innocent of any cover-up. I don't. This is where we differ. and before you spring to their defence, there is countless incidents where they have been proven to be corrupt. This is one example. Any reasonable person would agree that the B2 are scapegoats, but clearly you are not a reasonable person.

[boomerangutang]

They also confessed to the legal team from the Myanmar embassy

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

Read the whole thing.

I admit, that was strange, that they purportedly retracted the admission of guilt, while also purportedly admitting they did it. What's the comparative time line on those statements? I feel strongly there's something about that interview which is eluding us observing outsiders. Was the re-admission of guilt claimed (by the B2) before or after they had spoken with their lawyers? Was it correctly translated? It seems too weird when, for several weeks now, we (the general public) are being told they've retracted their confessions. Perhaps they still felt some sorts of pressure, just days after their forced confessions. I don't know.

So why bother having the reconstruction anyway? And as Stephen Terry said, if there was none of David's DNA on the hoe, why strike the actor David with a dustpan hoe?

Right, and that's just one of several very odd things about the reenactment. The reenactment used the dustpan's back end (to symbolize the back end of the hoe) on the actor playing David. Everything in the reenactment was micro-managed by a score of police officers, so it wasn't remotely a reenactment in any sense of the word. I'd venture the police would like everyone to forget about the reenactment, just as they'd like us to forget about the Headman's people and Sean and phone records and bloody clothes, and a score of other things that those of us seeking justice can't easily forget about.

Things used to be so much easier for Thai cops, before pesky social media poked its fuzzy head in to things. Cops could either say they couldn't solve the case (and everyone would go, "oh shucks" and go back to watching TV soap operas) .....or the cops would do what Thaksin and Chaleum so often do: tell the public what they want them to believe, and that's sufficient. With social media, it's a new paradigm. A lot less easy nowadays for cops to slough off a crime investigation, and have the general public go strolling off like a herd of goats to the next news headline.

[AleG]

No, I'm not naive, for example it would take a lot more than an anonymous person on the internet talking about things he probably didn't think through or has real knowledge of to convince me of the extraordinary claim that the DNA evidence was fabricated.

Don't bother with posting speculations, try to think it through. If you just can't think past "they swapped the results" you are not thinking enough.

The trouble is, you believe the RTP is innocent of any cover-up. I don't. This is where we differ. and before you spring to their defence, there is countless incidents where they have been proven to be corrupt. This is one example. Any reasonable person would agree that the B2 are scapegoats, but clearly you are not a reasonable person.

The police had been corrupt in other cases therefore cover-up is not a logical argument. Try again, maybe with some facts pertaining to this case to support the conclusion.

No, any reasonable person would examined the facts before agreeing with anything, instead of reaching for their prejudices for an answer.

[AleG]

They also confessed to the legal team from the Myanmar embassy

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

Read the whole thing.

I admit, that was strange, that they purportedly retracted the admission of guilt, while also purportedly admitting they did it. What's the comparative time line on those statements? I feel strongly there's something about that interview which is eluding us observing outsiders. Was the re-admission of guilt claimed (by the B2) before or after they had spoken with their lawyers? Was it correctly translated? It seems too weird when, for several weeks now, we (the general public) are being told they've retracted their confessions. Perhaps they still felt some sorts of pressure, just days after their forced confessions. I don't know.

Was it correctly translated?

They made that confession to Myanmar representative and the report is in a Myanmar based website.

[aimbc]

Matching DNA is as damning evidence as you can get. Do you need a link to the police claiming the DNA matches that of the suspects?

Ha, ha. You really believe that this is factual? You must be naive. The RTP have constructed the 'evidence'.

No, I'm not naive, for example it would take a lot more than an anonymous person on the internet talking about things he probably didn't think through or has real knowledge of to convince me of the extraordinary claim that the DNA evidence was fabricated.

Don't bother with posting speculations, try to think it through. If you just can't think past "they swapped the results" you are not thinking enough.

So since you said that he didn't think enough, can you tell me what he was missing that would have made it enough? This way I can learn from mistakes of others through you. Thanks

[Willy Eckerslike]

They also confessed to the legal team from the Myanmar embassy

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

Read the whole thing.

I admit, that was strange, that they purportedly retracted the admission of guilt, while also purportedly admitting they did it. What's the comparative time line on those statements? I feel strongly there's something about that interview which is eluding us observing outsiders. Was the re-admission of guilt claimed (by the B2) before or after they had spoken with their lawyers? Was it correctly translated? It seems too weird when, for several weeks now, we (the general public) are being told they've retracted their confessions. Perhaps they still felt some sorts of pressure, just days after their forced confessions. I don't know.

Was it correctly translated?

They made that confession to Myanmar representative and the report is in a Myanmar based website.

That would be the same Myanmar representative in the video above saying that they are innocent

EDIT, Mr Kyaw Thaung.

Edited December 18, 2014 by Willy Eckerslike

[AleG]

Ha, ha. You really believe that this is factual? You must be naive. The RTP have constructed the 'evidence'.

No, I'm not naive, for example it would take a lot more than an anonymous person on the internet talking about things he probably didn't think through or has real knowledge of to convince me of the extraordinary claim that the DNA evidence was fabricated.

Don't bother with posting speculations, try to think it through. If you just can't think past "they swapped the results" you are not thinking enough.

So since you said that he didn't think enough, can you tell me what he was missing that would have made it enough? This way I can learn from mistakes of others through you. Thanks

For example, that the body of the victim was sent back to the UK over two weeks before the arrest of the suspects so to plant the DNA they would had needed samples (of the correct type) before that, anything else would require complicity from UK authorities in the cover-up.

[sambum]

So your argument hinges on the accused not playing along with the reconstruction; did it occur to you that they have strong motives to discredit the process by doing so?

In any case, obviously the police thought they have enough evidence to arrest them men before the reconstruction, so the case will be based on that evidence, rather than the reconstruction.

So why bother having the reconstruction anyway? And as Stephen Terry said, if there was none of David's DNA on the hoe, why strike the actor David with a dustpan hoe?

Why? probably for self promotion, secondarily they may have expected to learn something from it. Why the dustpan twice? maybe that's all they had at hand, maybe they didn't remember all the details (they claimed to had been drunk at the time after all), who knows?, so again, the evidence presented in court is what will decide the case.

"Self promotion"? "that's all they had at hand" Utter garbage

[Willy Eckerslike]

They also confessed to the legal team from the Myanmar embassy

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

Read the whole thing.

This is history. Not the current situation. Please don't deliberately influence new posters.

Good post Stephen, especially since the same legal team have just held a press conference in Myanmar, see video

[jdinasia]

They also confessed to the legal team from the Myanmar embassy

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

Read the whole thing.

This is history. Not the current situation. Please don't deliberately influence new posters.

Huh?

They didn't confess once, or twice...

It was at least 3 times. To different people! The police. The HRC commissioner. The Myanmar legal team.

In court if I were the prosecution, I would call all three. Address the issue of the accusation of coercion by the police when they were called. Then the HRC commissioner, no accusation of coercion. Then the Myanmar legal team, no accusation of coercion.. Normally you could not call them but since they made the public statement....

What is history is other people having been suspects.

Edited December 18, 2014 by jdinasia

[jdinasia]

They also confessed to the legal team from the Myanmar embassy

https://www.dvb.no/news/koh-tao-murderers-were-tortured-says-burmese-embassy-lawyer-burma-myanmar/44781

Read the whole thing.

I admit, that was strange, that they purportedly retracted the admission of guilt, while also purportedly admitting they did it. What's the comparative time line on those statements? I feel strongly there's something about that interview which is eluding us observing outsiders. Was the re-admission of guilt claimed (by the B2) before or after they had spoken with their lawyers? Was it correctly translated? It seems too weird when, for several weeks now, we (the general public) are being told they've retracted their confessions. Perhaps they still felt some sorts of pressure, just days after their forced confessions. I don't know.

Was it correctly translated?

They made that confession to Myanmar representative and the report is in a Myanmar based website.

The HRC commissioner had Burmese speakers with him as well.

[007cableguy]

So what are the thoughts of the glee club about the statement from Myanmar?