Letter from two accused of Koh Tao murders to Daw Aung San Suu Kyi Myanmar Democracy icon

[jdinasia]

A hypothetical scenario and one that could possibly (likely) happen again on Koh Toa. (judging from other mysterious deaths and reported rapes reported prior on the Island) http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-4410135

A young attractive (blond) young lady and tourist (backpacker) befriends a fellow countrymen (young man) on the Island of Koh Toa. A local Thai (bar owner) take fancy to said young lady, but is immediately shot down and argument ensues with young ladies new found friend and bar owner. Later that night after attending beach party, local bar owner, still enraged from the earlier event, rapes and murders young lady, with help from his relatives.

This time however, there is eyewitnesses and irrefutable cctv footage and other evidence of the crime, and it is the same men the police had positively identified in the murders of Hannah and David at one time, but cleared.

Two weeks prior to this crime two Burmese men where executed for the murders of Hanna and David after much doubt about the evidence police collected and how the Thai judicial system treated this case.

You might want to go back to the OP and read it along with the full statements from the families.

[CharlieH]

A post commenting on moderation has been removed

[jdinasia]

I suggest that the defence subpoena every local adult on that island to attend and give a witness statement. Give that list to the prosecutor and judge with a smile...

While that is an interesting concept, the court would never allow it. (anywhere)

Witnesses must actually witness something.

[taony]

A hypothetical scenario and one that could possibly (likely) happen again on Koh Toa. (judging from other mysterious deaths and reported rapes reported prior on the Island) http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-4410135

A young attractive (blond) young lady and tourist (backpacker) befriends a fellow countrymen (young man) on the Island of Koh Toa. A local Thai (bar owner) take fancy to said young lady, but is immediately shot down and argument ensues with young ladies new found friend and bar owner. Later that night after attending beach party, local bar owner, still enraged from the earlier event, rapes and murders young lady, with help from his relatives.

This time however, there is eyewitnesses and irrefutable cctv footage and other evidence of the crime, and it is the same men the police had positively identified in the murders of Hannah and David at one time, but cleared.

Two weeks prior to this crime two Burmese men where executed for the murders of Hanna and David after much doubt about the evidence police collected and how the Thai judicial system treated this case.

You might want to go back to the OP and read it along with the full statements from the families.

Instead of useless one liners, how about explaining what you are referring to and why you think it contradicts what he posted? This is a discussion forum, how about trying to discuss something for a change?

[dcutman]

A hypothetical scenario and one that could possibly (likely) happen again on Koh Toa. (judging from other mysterious deaths and reported rapes reported prior on the Island) http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-4410135

A young attractive (blond) young lady and tourist (backpacker) befriends a fellow countrymen (young man) on the Island of Koh Toa. A local Thai (bar owner) take fancy to said young lady, but is immediately shot down and argument ensues with young ladies new found friend and bar owner. Later that night after attending beach party, local bar owner, still enraged from the earlier event, rapes and murders young lady, with help from his relatives.

This time however, there is eyewitnesses and irrefutable cctv footage and other evidence of the crime, and it is the same men the police had positively identified in the murders of Hannah and David at one time, but cleared.

Two weeks prior to this crime two Burmese men where executed for the murders of Hanna and David after much doubt about the evidence police collected and how the Thai judicial system treated this case.

You might want to go back to the OP and read it along with the full statements from the families.

Why? Because you believe the B2 are guilty as charged?

Edited December 11, 2014 by dcutman

[stephen terry]

I suggest that the defence subpoena every local adult on that island to attend and give a witness statement. Give that list to the prosecutor and judge with a smile...

While that is an interesting concept, the court would never allow it. (anywhere)

Witnesses must actually witness something.

I agree that every local adult will have witnessed something, even if it's hearsay. If there is to be a level playing field and the trial to be fair and transparent the defence must be pro-active. Whether the court will never allow it is debatable if the locals have been subpoenaed - it is a court of law, and a subpoena is a legal instrument.

Clearly, to subpoena the whole island would be impractical in the time frame, but the message should be made quite clear that it is a recourse.

Edited December 11, 2014 by stephen terry

[mikebell]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

meanwhile another party at the AC Bar last night and another farang beaten up there by three Thais and hospitalised off the island this morning- a first hand eye witness account!!

Please share more details on this

I dont know the cause but three guys in AC bar took out one farang last night because something was said. The man was taken off the island by boat this morning. I heard this from someone on the island who was at the bar last night. The same source said there was also trouble there on Saturday night

Farangs are still going to this island! Unbelievable! I thought farangs had had a good education.

[jdinasia]

A hypothetical scenario and one that could possibly (likely) happen again on Koh Toa. (judging from other mysterious deaths and reported rapes reported prior on the Island) http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-4410135

A young attractive (blond) young lady and tourist (backpacker) befriends a fellow countrymen (young man) on the Island of Koh Toa. A local Thai (bar owner) take fancy to said young lady, but is immediately shot down and argument ensues with young ladies new found friend and bar owner. Later that night after attending beach party, local bar owner, still enraged from the earlier event, rapes and murders young lady, with help from his relatives.

This time however, there is eyewitnesses and irrefutable cctv footage and other evidence of the crime, and it is the same men the police had positively identified in the murders of Hannah and David at one time, but cleared.

Two weeks prior to this crime two Burmese men where executed for the murders of Hanna and David after much doubt about the evidence police collected and how the Thai judicial system treated this case.

You might want to go back to the OP and read it along with the full statements from the families.

Why? Because you believe the B2 are guilty as charged?

No, because the families asked for the end of speculation and confirmed that there is significant information that will come out in court that is powerful and convincing.

[jdinasia]

I suggest that the defence subpoena every local adult on that island to attend and give a witness statement. Give that list to the prosecutor and judge with a smile...

While that is an interesting concept, the court would never allow it. (anywhere)

Witnesses must actually witness something.

I agree that every local adult will have witnessed something, even if it's hearsay. If there is to be a level playing field and the trial to be fair and transparent the defence must be pro-active. Whether the court will never allow it is debatable if the locals have been subpoenaed - it is a court of law.

Not really debatable at all. A court must issue a subpoena and cause must be shown.

I didn't say anything about most adults witnessing something. I said to be a witness you must have witnessed something. Gossip is not evidence.

[stephen terry]

I suggest that the defence subpoena every local adult on that island to attend and give a witness statement. Give that list to the prosecutor and judge with a smile...

While that is an interesting concept, the court would never allow it. (anywhere)

Witnesses must actually witness something.

I agree that every local adult will have witnessed something, even if it's hearsay. If there is to be a level playing field and the trial to be fair and transparent the defence must be pro-active. Whether the court will never allow it is debatable if the locals have been subpoenaed - it is a court of law.

Not really debatable at all. A court must issue a subpoena and cause must be shown.

I didn't say anything about most adults witnessing something. I said to be a witness you must have witnessed something. Gossip is not evidence.

How about an argument in the AC bar - whether or not it is factual needs witnesses to confirm or deny it - that's a 'cause'? it could show that the B2 were not in conflict with anyone. Circumstantial evidence in their favour. Or more pertinent to the B2, how about contamination of the crime scene? Or the re-enactment? or the allegations of torture. Probably a number of causes to justify a subpoena by the defence.

[stephen terry]

A hypothetical scenario and one that could possibly (likely) happen again on Koh Toa. (judging from other mysterious deaths and reported rapes reported prior on the Island) http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-4410135

A young attractive (blond) young lady and tourist (backpacker) befriends a fellow countrymen (young man) on the Island of Koh Toa. A local Thai (bar owner) take fancy to said young lady, but is immediately shot down and argument ensues with young ladies new found friend and bar owner. Later that night after attending beach party, local bar owner, still enraged from the earlier event, rapes and murders young lady, with help from his relatives.

This time however, there is eyewitnesses and irrefutable cctv footage and other evidence of the crime, and it is the same men the police had positively identified in the murders of Hannah and David at one time, but cleared.

Two weeks prior to this crime two Burmese men where executed for the murders of Hanna and David after much doubt about the evidence police collected and how the Thai judicial system treated this case.

You might want to go back to the OP and read it along with the full statements from the families.

Why? Because you believe the B2 are guilty as charged?

No, because the families asked for the end of speculation and confirmed that there is significant information that will come out in court that is powerful and convincing.

appears powerful... Please quote accurately.

[dcutman]

A hypothetical scenario and one that could possibly (likely) happen again on Koh Toa. (judging from other mysterious deaths and reported rapes reported prior on the Island) http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-4410135

A young attractive (blond) young lady and tourist (backpacker) befriends a fellow countrymen (young man) on the Island of Koh Toa. A local Thai (bar owner) take fancy to said young lady, but is immediately shot down and argument ensues with young ladies new found friend and bar owner. Later that night after attending beach party, local bar owner, still enraged from the earlier event, rapes and murders young lady, with help from his relatives.

This time however, there is eyewitnesses and irrefutable cctv footage and other evidence of the crime, and it is the same men the police had positively identified in the murders of Hannah and David at one time, but cleared.

Two weeks prior to this crime two Burmese men where executed for the murders of Hanna and David after much doubt about the evidence police collected and how the Thai judicial system treated this case.

You might want to go back to the OP and read it along with the full statements from the families.

Why? Because you believe the B2 are guilty as charged?

No, because the families asked for the end of speculation and confirmed that there is significant information that will come out in court that is powerful and convincing.

Apparently you are so consumed in defending the police and the guilt of these suspects that you cannot read and comprehend an entire post.

Hint:

"hypothetical scenario" I will have to give it to you though, your tenacity (,deleted> in reading and responding (although only partially) to every post that sparks a nerve, is impressive.

Edited December 11, 2014 by CharlieH

[uty6543]

A hypothetical scenario and one that could possibly (likely) happen again on Koh Toa. (judging from other mysterious deaths and reported rapes reported prior on the Island) http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-4410135

A young attractive (blond) young lady and tourist (backpacker) befriends a fellow countrymen (young man) on the Island of Koh Toa. A local Thai (bar owner) take fancy to said young lady, but is immediately shot down and argument ensues with young ladies new found friend and bar owner. Later that night after attending beach party, local bar owner, still enraged from the earlier event, rapes and murders young lady, with help from his relatives.

This time however, there is eyewitnesses and irrefutable cctv footage and other evidence of the crime, and it is the same men the police had positively identified in the murders of Hannah and David at one time, but cleared.

Two weeks prior to this crime two Burmese men where executed for the murders of Hanna and David after much doubt about the evidence police collected and how the Thai judicial system treated this case.

You might want to go back to the OP and read it along with the full statements from the families.

Why? Because you believe the B2 are guilty as charged?

No, because the families asked for the end of speculation and confirmed that there is significant information that will come out in court that is powerful and convincing.

Now your lying and you know it. I pointed your lie in post 141 "is powerful and convincing" is not what either of the families said. appears powerful and convincing is what they said big difference. There is also another 2 families who I think would be happy that many people are trying to expose all the lies that could lead to a miscarriage of justice.

[stephen terry]

I suggest that the defence subpoena every local adult on that island to attend and give a witness statement. Give that list to the prosecutor and judge with a smile...

While that is an interesting concept, the court would never allow it. (anywhere)

Witnesses must actually witness something.

I agree that every local adult will have witnessed something, even if it's hearsay. If there is to be a level playing field and the trial to be fair and transparent the defence must be pro-active. Whether the court will never allow it is debatable if the locals have been subpoenaed - it is a court of law.

Not really debatable at all. A court must issue a subpoena and cause must be shown.

I didn't say anything about most adults witnessing something. I said to be a witness you must have witnessed something. Gossip is not evidence.

How about an argument in the AC bar - whether or not it is factual needs witnesses to confirm or deny it - that's a 'cause'? it could show that the B2 were not in conflict with anyone. Circumstantial evidence in their favour. Or more pertinent to the B2, how about contamination of the crime scene? Or the re-enactment? or the allegations of torture. Probably a number of causes to justify a subpoena by the defence.

There are many reasons for a subpoena, but finding witnesses is not one of those reasons. Hence, why no judges anywhere would allow 1000 witness subpoenas. Thailand is different than most places when it comes to allowing even friendly witnesses to be called.

I think we must agree to disagree. IMO, the defence must use every legal resource to attain a fair and transparent trial. Whatever it takes.

[BoristheBlade]

I agree, the defence should go on all out attack.

Nomsod and Mon forced to give evidence.

The original RTP officer in charge, forced to give evidence.

The Police Comissioner forced to give evidence and asked why Nomsod gave DNA when it's alleged he was in Bangkok.

Sean, David's and Hanna's friends forced to give evidence.

The British Police Officers that investigated forced to give evidence.

Two lives are at stake here, and every available option should be taken to get justice.

Fight fire with fire, in my experience Thai's don't like it up them!

I suggest that the defence subpoena every local adult on that island to attend and give a witness statement. Give that list to the prosecutor and judge with a smile...

While that is an interesting concept, the court would never allow it. (anywhere)

Witnesses must actually witness something.

I agree that every local adult will have witnessed something, even if it's hearsay. If there is to be a level playing field and the trial to be fair and transparent the defence must be pro-active. Whether the court will never allow it is debatable if the locals have been subpoenaed - it is a court of law, and a subpoena is a legal instrument.

Clearly, to subpoena the whole island would be impractical in the time frame, but the message should be made quite clear that it is a recourse.

[Fat Haggis]

Why is that some people have to keep going on and on About "convincing " evidence?

And yet we are all supposed to believe this?

Tell me this much, how many people believe in the existence of God without it ever having been proved he exists?

Because there's evidence he exists? Or there are hard undisputed facts he exists?

Or just what's been written in a book, that you take it as the truth?

The very fact that people chose to believe in God without a single shred of evidence is living proof that people chose to believe " rumours" of his existence, contrary to a lack of physical evidence that he does?

So why is it so wrong for people to listen to and believe any rumour or information here ?

I know this isn't about religion but if your a Christian and believe in God, you're doing so based solely on rumours and hearsay and if that's acceptable to you, then when others chose to listen to hearsay and rumours in this sensitive case, how can you stand in judgement of them, when you've never seen evidence that proves any God exists but take all you have been told about his existence based on faith and not evidence?

[thailandchilli]

The fact is its also well documented that witness's in Koh Tao are too scared top speak up on behalf of the B2 to the point that some even fear for their lives.

[AleG]

Why is that some people have to keep going on and on About "convincing " evidence?

And yet we are all supposed to believe this?

Tell me this much, how many people believe in the existence of God without it ever having been proved he exists?

Because there's evidence he exists? Or there are hard undisputed facts he exists?

Or just what's been written in a book, that you take it as the truth?

The very fact that people chose to believe in God without a single shred of evidence is living proof that people chose to believe " rumours" of his existence, contrary to a lack of physical evidence that he does?

So why is it so wrong for people to listen to and believe any rumour or information here ?

I know this isn't about religion but if your a Christian and believe in God, you're doing so based solely on rumours and hearsay and if that's acceptable to you, then when others chose to listen to hearsay and rumours in this sensitive case, how can you stand in judgement of them, when you've never seen evidence that proves any God exists but take all you have been told about his existence based on faith and not evidence?

This "argument" is marginally more compelling than the Chewbacca Defense.

Not by much though.

[englishoak]

A hypothetical scenario and one that could possibly (likely) happen again on Koh Toa. (judging from other mysterious deaths and reported rapes reported prior on the Island) http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-4410135

A young attractive (blond) young lady and tourist (backpacker) befriends a fellow countrymen (young man) on the Island of Koh Toa. A local Thai (bar owner) take fancy to said young lady, but is immediately shot down and argument ensues with young ladies new found friend and bar owner. Later that night after attending beach party, local bar owner, still enraged from the earlier event, rapes and murders young lady, with help from his relatives.

This time however, there is eyewitnesses and irrefutable cctv footage and other evidence of the crime, and it is the same men the police had positively identified in the murders of Hannah and David at one time, but cleared.

Two weeks prior to this crime two Burmese men where executed for the murders of Hanna and David after much doubt about the evidence police collected and how the Thai judicial system treated this case.

You might want to go back to the OP and read it along with the full statements from the families.

You might want to do the same and while your at it and consider adhering to their wishes instead of spamming every thread with your one liners.

[englishoak]

A hypothetical scenario and one that could possibly (likely) happen again on Koh Toa. (judging from other mysterious deaths and reported rapes reported prior on the Island) http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/thailand-beach-death-parents-convinced-4410135

A young attractive (blond) young lady and tourist (backpacker) befriends a fellow countrymen (young man) on the Island of Koh Toa. A local Thai (bar owner) take fancy to said young lady, but is immediately shot down and argument ensues with young ladies new found friend and bar owner. Later that night after attending beach party, local bar owner, still enraged from the earlier event, rapes and murders young lady, with help from his relatives.

This time however, there is eyewitnesses and irrefutable cctv footage and other evidence of the crime, and it is the same men the police had positively identified in the murders of Hannah and David at one time, but cleared.

Two weeks prior to this crime two Burmese men where executed for the murders of Hanna and David after much doubt about the evidence police collected and how the Thai judicial system treated this case.

You might want to go back to the OP and read it along with the full statements from the families.

Why? Because you believe the B2 are guilty as charged?

No, because the families asked for the end of speculation and confirmed that there is significant information that will come out in court that is powerful and convincing.

Take that advice and set an example then.

Edited December 11, 2014 by englishoak

[englishoak]

I suggest that the defence subpoena every local adult on that island to attend and give a witness statement. Give that list to the prosecutor and judge with a smile...

While that is an interesting concept, the court would never allow it. (anywhere)

Witnesses must actually witness something.

I agree that every local adult will have witnessed something, even if it's hearsay. If there is to be a level playing field and the trial to be fair and transparent the defence must be pro-active. Whether the court will never allow it is debatable if the locals have been subpoenaed - it is a court of law.

Not really debatable at all. A court must issue a subpoena and cause must be shown.

I didn't say anything about most adults witnessing something. I said to be a witness you must have witnessed something. Gossip is not evidence.

How about an argument in the AC bar - whether or not it is factual needs witnesses to confirm or deny it - that's a 'cause'? it could show that the B2 were not in conflict with anyone. Circumstantial evidence in their favour. Or more pertinent to the B2, how about contamination of the crime scene? Or the re-enactment? or the allegations of torture. Probably a number of causes to justify a subpoena by the defence.

There are many reasons for a subpoena, but finding witnesses is not one of those reasons. Hence, why no judges anywhere would allow 1000 witness subpoenas. Thailand is different than most places when it comes to allowing even friendly witnesses to be called.

Your not a Thai legal expert, you only pretend to be What you mean is Thailands system is different to the point of they manipulate even their own laws when it suits.

PS having answered 3 posts in a row i hope you can see how silly it is when a poster starts spamming and answering every point in separate posts...

you never heard of multi quoting or know how to ? or are you just milking it for the post count ?

[JohnThailandJohn]

Interesting in their letter they indicate they don't even think the headman's son was responsible for the murders...

“The truth is we are not really involved in this case. We want you to help us. So we write this letter to you from our imprisonment. We were not involved in this crime. We do not want to be in jail anymore. We think the killer went to another country already."

[thailandchilli]

Interesting in their letter they indicate they don't even think the headman's son was responsible for the murders...

“The truth is we are not really involved in this case. We want you to help us. So we write this letter to you from our imprisonment. We were not involved in this crime. We do not want to be in jail anymore. We think the killer went to another country already."

Note, 'the killer' there are obviously more than one killers here. But it does imply they suspect who one of the real killers is, in their opinion!

[JohnThailandJohn]

The fact is its also well documented that witness's in Koh Tao are too scared top speak up on behalf of the B2 to the point that some even fear for their lives.

Where is it well documented? Who has said they are a witness but are too scared to come forward?

I would think if somebody was too scared to come forward they wouldn't be allowing it to be well documented they are a witness or have evidence.

Edited December 11, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[thailandchilli]

The fact is its also well documented that witness's in Koh Tao are too scared top speak up on behalf of the B2 to the point that some even fear for their lives.

Where is it well documented? Who has said they are a witness but are too scared to come forward?

I would think if somebody was too scared to come forward they wouldn't be allowing it to be well documented they are a witness or have evidence.

“It’s really challenging getting witnesses for them because everyone’s so scared,” Hall said. He said that Thais living on Koh Tao are especially scared to speak out, because they have names and addresses that can be easily tracked. This is their home, they can’t leave the way migrant workers or Western expats can. People are scared that their businesses will be closed or their lives will be threatened, even that they could be killed, Hall said.

Our 'man' on the right http://asiancorrespondent.com/128732/koh-tao-murder-suspects-issue-plea-for-witnesses-ahead-of-formal-charges/

Edited December 11, 2014 by thailandchilli

[StealthEnergiser]

The fact is its also well documented that witness's in Koh Tao are too scared top speak up on behalf of the B2 to the point that some even fear for their lives.

Where is it well documented? Who has said they are a witness but are too scared to come forward?

I would think if somebody was too scared to come forward they wouldn't be allowing it to be well documented they are a witness or have evidence.

no need to answer trolls like JTJ just let them do their own research

Edited December 11, 2014 by StealthEnergiser

[sjaak327]

It is still pretty amazing that the defense team does not know what evidence the prosecution will bring to the table, and that they apparently will find out a whopping 7 days prior to the trial.

Thailand needs to understand that this is not a fair trial and regardless of any evidence brought forward this mere fact puts the trail into doubt even before it is even started.

Maybe they should ensure that the trail is fair, and therefore not only disclose this evidence to the defense team, but postpone the trial to ensure the defense team has enough time to prepare for the trial.

I understand Thailand wanting this particular problem going away as soon as possible, but I do think this is not the way to go about it.

Not to mention the way this case was handled by the boys in brown, that alone is a disgrace.

[JohnThailandJohn]

The fact is its also well documented that witness's in Koh Tao are too scared top speak up on behalf of the B2 to the point that some even fear for their lives.

Where is it well documented? Who has said they are a witness but are too scared to come forward?

I would think if somebody was too scared to come forward they wouldn't be allowing it to be well documented they are a witness or have evidence.

“It’s really challenging getting witnesses for them because everyone’s so scared,” Hall said. He said that Thais living on Koh Tao are especially scared to speak out, because they have names and addresses that can be easily tracked. This is their home, they can’t leave the way migrant workers or Western expats can. People are scared that their businesses will be closed or their lives will be threatened, even that they could be killed, Hall said.

Our 'man' on the right http://asiancorrespondent.com/128732/koh-tao-murder-suspects-issue-plea-for-witnesses-ahead-of-formal-charges/

So in your mind "well documented" means a statement from somebody working with the defense team.

Edited December 11, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[Thai at Heart]

"The prosecution has made no disclosure of their witness statements while the defense has been asked to produce a full witness list, according to lead defense lawyer Nakhon Chompuchat. Reports suggest that the prosecution have only provided a six page document for the defense team to go on giving the defense team no time to prepare challenges to prosecution witnesses."

If this is indeed true, how could there ever be a fair trail ?

Oh wait, this is Thailand, these boys are done for, regardless of the evidence.

What they are setting up here is truly horrendous.

A complete bodge job in front of the world's media. Why do they persist in making laughing stocks of themselves in front of the world?

[thailandchilli]

The fact is its also well documented that witness's in Koh Tao are too scared top speak up on behalf of the B2 to the point that some even fear for their lives.

Where is it well documented? Who has said they are a witness but are too scared to come forward?

I would think if somebody was too scared to come forward they wouldn't be allowing it to be well documented they are a witness or have evidence.

“It’s really challenging getting witnesses for them because everyone’s so scared,” Hall said. He said that Thais living on Koh Tao are especially scared to speak out, because they have names and addresses that can be easily tracked. This is their home, they can’t leave the way migrant workers or Western expats can. People are scared that their businesses will be closed or their lives will be threatened, even that they could be killed, Hall said.

Our 'man' on the right http://asiancorrespondent.com/128732/koh-tao-murder-suspects-issue-plea-for-witnesses-ahead-of-formal-charges/

So in your mind "well documented" means statement from somebody working with the defense team.

As much as a statement from the RTP and prosecution means to you yes

Edited December 11, 2014 by thailandchilli