UK pensions-life certificate

[soap]

I phoned Newcastle yesterday.

They will NOT accept a retired British policeman or a retired British solicitor as a witness.

They will accept a Thai bank manager ( I wonder if they know who was the main culprit for the 1996 Thai crash)

I did not bother to ask them if they would accept a British politician if I paid their expenses.

Assuming the Old Git is right in post #9 (and he usually is) then this statement is hogwash.

In any event, consider the stupidity of their statement. They are happy to accept the signature of an unknown, unqualified 'foreigner' with no recourse, over a qualified Briton who has to append their passport number and

phone number when countersigning a passport application

When I rang Newcastle,the guy who sounded if he had come through some youth opportunity scheme told me to hang on while he checked if a retired policeman will be ok to sign,after I presume checking with a superior he told me NO he must be working,he gave me the same answer when I asked about the solicitor.

So can anyone confirm if these people are acceptable even if they don't have a stamp

[meatboy]

today i will phone the daily mail contact no.to ask them to put it in one of their columns regarding this ?

telle.no.44-20-79386120

[Jip99]

I phoned Newcastle yesterday.

They will NOT accept a retired British policeman or a retired British solicitor as a witness.

They will accept a Thai bank manager ( I wonder if they know who was the main culprit for the 1996 Thai crash)

I did not bother to ask them if they would accept a British politician if I paid their expenses.

Assuming the Old Git is right in post #9 (and he usually is) then this statement is hogwash.

In any event, consider the stupidity of their statement. They are happy to accept the signature of an unknown, unqualified 'foreigner' with no recourse, over a qualified Briton who has to append their passport number and

phone number when countersigning a passport application

When I rang Newcastle,the guy who sounded if he had come through some youth opportunity scheme told me to hang on while he checked if a retired policeman will be ok to sign,after I presume checking with a superior he told me NO he must be working,he gave me the same answer when I asked about the solicitor.

So can anyone confirm if these people are acceptable even if they don't have a stamp

Time will tell.

If they reject the 3 forms I am sending back on Monday then we will have the answer.

On a slight tangent, a friend phoned his private pension provider to ask if they had received the life certificate he sent 2 weeks ago. Although they had not yet received the form they did say that as he had phoned them twice, about the matter, they were satisfied that he was alive and would continue paying the pension whether the form arrived or not.

[khastan]

I phoned Newcastle yesterday.

They will NOT accept a retired British policeman or a retired British solicitor as a witness.

They will accept a Thai bank manager ( I wonder if they know who was the main culprit for the 1996 Thai crash)

I did not bother to ask them if they would accept a British politician if I paid their expenses.

Assuming the Old Git is right in post #9 (and he usually is) then this statement is hogwash.

In any event, consider the stupidity of their statement. They are happy to accept the signature of an unknown, unqualified 'foreigner' with no recourse, over a qualified Briton who has to append their passport number and phone number when countersigning a passport application

Yes agreed but also I wonder what would happen if the person deemed to be of sufficient standing in the community filled his part of the form in Thai not English. Incidentally when I spoke to them and told them that the majority of upstanding citizens in this town speak Thai not English and could you send it in Thai I was told it was only available in English. Which is very odd when you consider that the UK government spends millions of pounds a year translating every form imaginable into god knows how many languages.

I think they would not a give a toss. I doubt that many/any certificates are checked for authenticity. There are no contact details apart from a Thai address.

You get the feeling that the 'official stamp' is as important as anything.

I repeat that I see nothing untoward in requesting these forms - private pension trustees do it regularly. For me, commonsense is the key factor and allowing witnesses of 'sufficient standing' - non-Thais - should ensure that these forms can be completed without too much inconvenience.

I am sorry but I see this as a cynical deliberate attempt by this UK government to deprive people of the pension they have paid to receive all their working life, especially in it's present form. It would be interesting to find out the cost versus benefit of this exercise.

I agree the official stamp is what they will look for. Of course having to provide this will automatically rule out any body in their chosen professions, thus calling into question the integrity of all those people retired. Yet another attack on the elderly.

I am sorry but I see this as a attempt by this UK government to deprive vulnerable pensioners of the pension they have paid to receive all their working life, especially in it's present form. It would be interesting to find out the cost versus benefit of this exercise.

I agree the official stamp is what they will look for and without that the form will be rejected. Of course having to provide this will automatically rule out anybody who is retired in those professions they have chosen to countersign the life certificate, thus calling into question the integrity of all those people. Yet another cynical attack on the elderly.

No their is nothing untoward in requesting such proof however their are better ways to go about it. Being the recipient of a very small private pension I have received such forms in the past and all that was required was to confirm my address, sign and date them and sent them back using registered post with no problems. I presume they just check my signature from the one they have on record. However from what I read from a previous poster is that the addressed envelope they include to send the life certificate back does not accept registered mail only normal unsigned mail. Given the unreliability of posting anything with such importance using Thai regular mail to another country without proof is very dangerous indeed.

[Jip99]

today i will phone the daily mail contact no.to ask them to put it in one of their columns regarding this ?

telle.no.44-20-79386120

Meatboy, I respect, and agree with many of your posts. In this case do you not think you are a being a bit melodramatic ?

I tend to believe that the Old Git is right in saying that people who countersign passport applications can sign life certificates (despite 'soap' being told otherwise).

IF he is wrong then there is a case for informing the press of the inconsistency of approach. Until we know for certain what is acceptable such contact seems premature.

Just my opinion.

[theoldgit]

Maybe they want all us pensioners to return to the UK where our pensions will be uplifted, we will get free healthcare, winter fuel allowance and they will even throw in a bus pass for good measure.

In regard to the conflicting advice given by our friends at the Consular Section and the people in Newcastle, it does strike me as left hand and right hand.

In respect of the need to send these forms out, as a UK taxpayer I agree with the previous poster who defends their right to do so, but at least give us a fighting chance.

[OJAS]

I phoned Newcastle yesterday.

They will NOT accept a retired British policeman or a retired British solicitor as a witness.

They will accept a Thai bank manager ( I wonder if they know who was the main culprit for the 1996 Thai crash)

I did not bother to ask them if they would accept a British politician if I paid their expenses.

Assuming the Old Git is right in post #9 (and he usually is) then this statement is hogwash.

In any event, consider the stupidity of their statement. They are happy to accept the signature of an unknown, unqualified 'foreigner' with no recourse, over a qualified Briton who has to append their passport number and

phone number when countersigning a passport application

When I rang Newcastle,the guy who sounded if he had come through some youth opportunity scheme told me to hang on while he checked if a retired policeman will be ok to sign,after I presume checking with a superior he told me NO he must be working,he gave me the same answer when I asked about the solicitor.

So can anyone confirm if these people are acceptable even if they don't have a stamp

Sounds like he was the same clueless guy I spoke to last night about the fate of my claim!

In answer to your question, retired British policemen and solicitors should definitely be OK if you take what is said at https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad (under the "Getting A Life Certificate" heading) in tandem with https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications as the 100% gospel truth.

Edited December 13, 2014 by OJAS

[khastan]

I phoned Newcastle yesterday.

They will NOT accept a retired British policeman or a retired British solicitor as a witness.

They will accept a Thai bank manager ( I wonder if they know who was the main culprit for the 1996 Thai crash)

I did not bother to ask them if they would accept a British politician if I paid their expenses.

Assuming the Old Git is right in post #9 (and he usually is) then this statement is hogwash.

In any event, consider the stupidity of their statement. They are happy to accept the signature of an unknown, unqualified 'foreigner' with no recourse, over a qualified Briton who has to append their passport number and

phone number when countersigning a passport application

When I rang Newcastle,the guy who sounded if he had come through some youth opportunity scheme told me to hang on while he checked if a retired policeman will be ok to sign,after I presume checking with a superior he told me NO he must be working,he gave me the same answer when I asked about the solicitor.

So can anyone confirm if these people are acceptable even if they don't have a stamp

Time will tell.

If they reject the 3 forms I am sending back on Monday then we will have the answer.

On a slight tangent, a friend phoned his private pension provider to ask if they had received the life certificate he sent 2 weeks ago. Although they had not yet received the form they did say that as he had phoned them twice, about the matter, they were satisfied that he was alive and would continue paying the pension whether the form arrived or not.

I would say without a stamp it will be rejected. I believe that this has the potential to cause great hardship to many people and will make the passport fiasco last year look tame in comparison. It is a badly thought out idea with a over complex form which does not take into account where the person lives or the ability to converse or understand English. The life certificate in its present form in my opinion is suitable for only English speaking countries.I suggest anybody in future who phones Newcastle for advice etc that they record the conversation. I certainly wished I had done that. I have no idea of the legality of such a action but I believe that if you tell the person that you are recording this conversion then it is legal.

[khastan]

today i will phone the daily mail contact no.to ask them to put it in one of their columns regarding this ?

telle.no.44-20-79386120

Meatboy, I respect, and agree with many of your posts. In this case do you not think you are a being a bit melodramatic ?

I tend to believe that the Old Git is right in saying that people who countersign passport applications can sign life certificates (despite 'soap' being told otherwise).

IF he is wrong then there is a case for informing the press of the inconsistency of approach. Until we know for certain what is acceptable such contact seems premature.

Just my opinion.

The person who countersigned my passport last year, my neighbor is a 75 year old retired Australian Air Force pilot. According to the advice on the gov.uk website he is allowed to sign my life certificate however he does not have a rubber stamp, so yes the advice they give is conflicting in the extreme.

[Jip99]

Assuming the Old Git is right in post #9 (and he usually is) then this statement is hogwash.

In any event, consider the stupidity of their statement. They are happy to accept the signature of an unknown, unqualified 'foreigner' with no recourse, over a qualified Briton who has to append their passport number and

phone number when countersigning a passport application

When I rang Newcastle,the guy who sounded if he had come through some youth opportunity scheme told me to hang on while he checked if a retired policeman will be ok to sign,after I presume checking with a superior he told me NO he must be working,he gave me the same answer when I asked about the solicitor.

So can anyone confirm if these people are acceptable even if they don't have a stamp

Time will tell.

If they reject the 3 forms I am sending back on Monday then we will have the answer.

On a slight tangent, a friend phoned his private pension provider to ask if they had received the life certificate he sent 2 weeks ago. Although they had not yet received the form they did say that as he had phoned them twice, about the matter, they were satisfied that he was alive and would continue paying the pension whether the form arrived or not.

I would say without a stamp it will be rejected. I believe that this has the potential to cause great hardship to many people and will make the passport fiasco last year look tame in comparison. It is a badly thought out idea with a over complex form which does not take into account where the person lives or the ability to converse or understand English. The life certificate in its present form in my opinion is suitable for only English speaking countries.I suggest anybody in future who phones Newcastle for advice etc that they record the conversation. I certainly wished I had done that. I have no idea of the legality of such a action but I believe that if you tell the person that you are recording this conversion then it is legal.

I disagree.

I don't think the form is complex at all; the only issue is the box for a stamp - it gives the impression that one is required. As it happens I have one, but I accept that most people (who meet the passport countersigning criteria) will not have one. I would like to think that in cases like khastan (and the Old Git) where retired senior officials signed the form, the Pension Service will find it acceptable.

If the don't, then I will be with meatboy, contacting the UK press, to highlight the unfairness.

As an opinion - just because someone records a conversation it does not change a load of bo11ox into something legal.

[khastan]

Maybe they want all us pensioners to return to the UK where our pensions will be uplifted, we will get free healthcare, winter fuel allowance and they will even throw in a bus pass for good measure.

In regard to the conflicting advice given by our friends at the Consular Section and the people in Newcastle, it does strike me as left hand and right hand.

In respect of the need to send these forms out, as a UK taxpayer I agree with the previous poster who defends their right to do so, but at least give us a fighting chance.

Yes I think that is what they would like and generally be a burden on the state. I think potentially there are over one million pensioners living abroad receiving a UK state pension. If all those people said enough is enough and arrived in the UK en mass and demanded what was rightfully theirs from the state it would cost them billions not the paltry millions over a five year period they say they are going to save with this.

The problem is they will not confirm anything they tell you by email or in writing. When I rung and spoke to somebody in Newcastle and asked them if they read the various forums relating to this issue I was told they do not read anything like that. Which is a pity because then they would have a greater understanding of the policy they were implementing.

Yes I too defend their right but in this day and age there is a lot better way to go about such matters.

[Jip99]

today i will phone the daily mail contact no.to ask them to put it in one of their columns regarding this ?

telle.no.44-20-79386120

Meatboy, I respect, and agree with many of your posts. In this case do you not think you are a being a bit melodramatic ?

I tend to believe that the Old Git is right in saying that people who countersign passport applications can sign life certificates (despite 'soap' being told otherwise).

IF he is wrong then there is a case for informing the press of the inconsistency of approach. Until we know for certain what is acceptable such contact seems premature.

Just my opinion.

The person who countersigned my passport last year, my neighbor is a 75 year old retired Australian Air Force pilot. According to the advice on the gov.uk website he is allowed to sign my life certificate however he does not have a rubber stamp, so yes the advice they give is conflicting in the extreme.

khastan, do you have a link to the gov.uk website where it states who can sign? That is irrefutable proof in my book. Your form being accepted by the Pension Service would also be evidence that they are not trying to be difficult.

[theoldgit]

If you look at post #70 from OJAS, you will note that it's very clear as to who can sign the forms, it's the same as those who can countersign passport photos, including those that the YTS guy in Newcastle says cannot.

[khastan]

today i will phone the daily mail contact no.to ask them to put it in one of their columns regarding this ?

telle.no.44-20-79386120

Meatboy, I respect, and agree with many of your posts. In this case do you not think you are a being a bit melodramatic ?

I tend to believe that the Old Git is right in saying that people who countersign passport applications can sign life certificates (despite 'soap' being told otherwise).

IF he is wrong then there is a case for informing the press of the inconsistency of approach. Until we know for certain what is acceptable such contact seems premature.

Just my opinion.

The person who countersigned my passport last year, my neighbor is a 75 year old retired Australian Air Force pilot. According to the advice on the gov.uk website he is allowed to sign my life certificate however he does not have a rubber stamp, so yes the advice they give is conflicting in the extreme.

khastan, do you have a link to the gov.uk website where it states who can sign? That is irrefutable proof in my book. Your form being accepted by the Pension Service would also be evidence that they are not trying to be difficult.

With pleasure, please note also the paragraph before the link Check the list of people who can witness a life certificate. This is now the same as the list of people who can ‘countersign’ a passport photo - though they don’t need to live in the UK, or have a passport from a specific country.

https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications

[meatboy]

today i will phone the daily mail contact no.to ask them to put it in one of their columns regarding this ?

telle.no.44-20-79386120

Meatboy, I respect, and agree with many of your posts. In this case do you not think you are a being a bit melodramatic ?

I tend to believe that the Old Git is right in saying that people who countersign passport applications can sign life certificates (despite 'soap' being told otherwise).

IF he is wrong then there is a case for informing the press of the inconsistency of approach. Until we know for certain what is acceptable such contact seems premature.

Just my opinion.

sorry jip99 i should have said i am going to highlight the fact that the po.box drop will refuse to sign for the post and then it will go into nomans land,unless it takes more time to return to sender address unknown[elvis] yet we that send it by registered mail have proof of it being sent.

the letter clearly states it comes from the DWP newcastle and they

it is important that WE receive your reply within 8weeks from the date of this form.

then they DWP state if we do not receive your completed life certificate then i regret that we will STOP your money

until the life certificate is RECEIVED.

so what are we to do send it by ordinary post.with no proof of us sending it back.

OR fax a copy of either of our 90day report or our extension dates.

yes the letter has got a fax no.on it, 0191-21-87307 quoting your ni.no.

who is the minister for pensions? maybe send him a few e-mails.

[theoldgit]

who is the minister for pensions? maybe send him a few e-mails.

Steve Webb, he's the same guy who when in opposition stated that the freezing of pensions in some countries was indefensible. http://www.stevewebb.org.uk/webb/

[khastan]

today i will phone the daily mail contact no.to ask them to put it in one of their columns regarding this ?

telle.no.44-20-79386120

Meatboy, I respect, and agree with many of your posts. In this case do you not think you are a being a bit melodramatic ?

I tend to believe that the Old Git is right in saying that people who countersign passport applications can sign life certificates (despite 'soap' being told otherwise).

IF he is wrong then there is a case for informing the press of the inconsistency of approach. Until we know for certain what is acceptable such contact seems premature.

Just my opinion.

sorry jip99 i should have said i am going to highlight the fact that the po.box drop will refuse to sign for the post and then it will go into nomans land,unless it takes more time to return to sender address unknown[elvis] yet we that send it by registered mail have proof of it being sent.

the letter clearly states it comes from the DWP newcastle and they

it is important that WE receive your reply within 8weeks from the date of this form.

then they DWP state if we do not receive your completed life certificate then i regret that we will STOP your money

until the life certificate is RECEIVED.

so what are we to do send it by ordinary post.with no proof of us sending it back.

OR fax a copy of either of our 90day report or our extension dates.

yes the letter has got a fax no.on it, 0191-21-87307 quoting your ni.no.

who is the minister for pensions? maybe send him a few e-mails.

I wonder why they have chosen a address to send the proof of life certificate back to a address which will not accept proof of posting, this seems to me very suspicious or at the least strange thing to do given the importance of these forms. One could be led to presume that this is a deliberate attempt to save money for the government by not paying pensions to UK expats or delay this payment has long as they can.

[khastan]

who is the minister for pensions? maybe send him a few e-mails.

Steve Webb, he's the same guy who when in opposition stated that the freezing of pensions in some countries was indefensible. http://www.stevewebb.org.uk/webb/

Yes the very same but how quickly he changed his mind once he got into a position of power.

[Jip99]

Meatboy, I respect, and agree with many of your posts. In this case do you not think you are a being a bit melodramatic ?

I tend to believe that the Old Git is right in saying that people who countersign passport applications can sign life certificates (despite 'soap' being told otherwise).

IF he is wrong then there is a case for informing the press of the inconsistency of approach. Until we know for certain what is acceptable such contact seems premature.

Just my opinion.

The person who countersigned my passport last year, my neighbor is a 75 year old retired Australian Air Force pilot. According to the advice on the gov.uk website he is allowed to sign my life certificate however he does not have a rubber stamp, so yes the advice they give is conflicting in the extreme.

khastan, do you have a link to the gov.uk website where it states who can sign? That is irrefutable proof in my book. Your form being accepted by the Pension Service would also be evidence that they are not trying to be difficult.

With pleasure, please note also the paragraph before the link Check the list of people who can witness a life certificate. This is now the same as the list of people who can ‘countersign’ a passport photo - though they don’t need to live in the UK, or have a passport from a specific country.

https://www.gov.uk/countersigning-passport-applications

Thanks very much - got it now.

That is the irrefutable evidence I wanted - what anyone in Newcastle, or anywhere else, says on the phone is irrelevant.

As far as I am concerned this is now a non-issue and meatboy can save his time by not bothering the British press for no good reason .

[meatboy]

to try and get someone with a bit of hump in the uk.i have managed to send an email [confirmed received] to the shadow

health minister rachel reeves.to read the topic in this forum.

if they carry out the threat of stopping some of expats whose forms have not landed on their laps,it will take a long time to make them beleive you when you say your still alive and it will be at our expence.

it took me 3yrs.to get them to admit they were wrong about my case and yes it did cost me.

[Ace of Pop]

Don't you Brits have a bank account,or just like to make something easy difficult

[pontious]

I posted in the UK pension thread of my conversation with Newcastle regarding Wolverhampton and Life Certificates and other things.

I forgot to say they will accept a fax of your life certificate - so I have done that.

If that is true why not put that info on the letter!!!!!

I used my insurance agent (Thai) to sign mine -nice big Company Stamp - insurance agents are on the list.

and IPC confirmed to me that was perfectly acceptable.

[Jip99]

I posted in the UK pension thread of my conversation with Newcastle regarding Wolverhampton and Life Certificates and other things.

I forgot to say they will accept a fax of your life certificate - so I have done that.

If that is true why not put that info on the letter!!!!!

I used my insurance agent (Thai) to sign mine -nice big Company Stamp - insurance agents are on the list.

and IPC confirmed to me that was perfectly acceptable.

I also think (mainly to save time/postage) that a scanned copy should be acceptable. As long as the person signing is accountable and contactable it shouldn't matter.

[khastan]

I posted in the UK pension thread of my conversation with Newcastle regarding Wolverhampton and Life Certificates and other things.

I forgot to say they will accept a fax of your life certificate - so I have done that.

If that is true why not put that info on the letter!!!!!

I used my insurance agent (Thai) to sign mine -nice big Company Stamp - insurance agents are on the list.

and IPC confirmed to me that was perfectly acceptable.

I also think (mainly to save time/postage) that a scanned copy should be acceptable. As long as the person signing is accountable and contactable it shouldn't matter.

Agreed that is very good news and you also have a record that they have received it when sent by fax.

[OJAS]

Don't you Brits have a bank account,or just like to make something easy difficult

It's our bloody government who like to make something easy difficult, mate!

[evadgib]

A fax or scan/emailed copy including the track and trace details confirming an original is on it's way has always worked in my dealings with Govt Depts.

Re "Why can't they put that in a letter?"; Their letters are auto generated and are aimed at people living within the UK or perhaps the EU. The system isn't geared for claimants further afield but thankfully common sense usually applies once contact has been made by phone.

IMO the way ahead would be to utilize Skype etc to everyone's advantage by interviewing claimants online/at home using image enhancing technology already in use @HMPO etc.

Edited December 13, 2014 by evadgib

[khastan]

A fax or scan/emailed copy including the track and trace details confirming an original is on it's way has always worked in my dealings with Govt Depts.

Re "Why can't they put that in a letter?"; Their letters are auto generated and are aimed at people living within the UK or perhaps the EU. The system isn't geared for claimants further afield but thankfully common sense usually applies once contact has been made by phone.

IMO the way ahead would be to utilize Skype etc to everyone's advantage by interviewing claimants online/at home using image enhancing technology already in use @HMPO etc.

Your suggestion of a Skype interview is a excellent one and would save them millions of pounds in paperwork.

[khastan]

A fax or scan/emailed copy including the track and trace details confirming an original is on it's way has always worked in my dealings with Govt Depts.

Re "Why can't they put that in a letter?"; Their letters are auto generated and are aimed at people living within the UK or perhaps the EU. The system isn't geared for claimants further afield but thankfully common sense usually applies once contact has been made by phone.

IMO the way ahead would be to utilize Skype etc to everyone's advantage by interviewing claimants online/at home using image enhancing technology already in use @HMPO etc.

Your suggestion of a Skype interview is a excellent one and would save them millions of pounds in paperwork.

The problem is I believe you are not allowed to send mail that is either track and trace or requires a signature to the Wolverhampton address given.

[evadgib]

A fax or scan/emailed copy including the track and trace details confirming an original is on it's way has always worked in my dealings with Govt Depts.

Re "Why can't they put that in a letter?"; Their letters are auto generated and are aimed at people living within the UK or perhaps the EU. The system isn't geared for claimants further afield but thankfully common sense usually applies once contact has been made by phone.

IMO the way ahead would be to utilize Skype etc to everyone's advantage by interviewing claimants online/at home using image enhancing technology already in use @HMPO etc.

Your suggestion of a Skype interview is a excellent one and would save them millions of pounds in paperwork.

The problem is I believe you are not allowed to send mail that is either track and trace or requires a signature to the Wolverhampton address given.

Whether you're allowed or not is irrelevant, as you'll have created 2 separate electronic chains proving the documents were sent.

[pontious]

A fax or scan/emailed copy including the track and trace details confirming an original is on it's way has always worked in my dealings with Govt Depts.

Re "Why can't they put that in a letter?"; Their letters are auto generated and are aimed at people living within the UK or perhaps the EU. The system isn't geared for claimants further afield but thankfully common sense usually applies once contact has been made by phone.

IMO the way ahead would be to utilize Skype etc to everyone's advantage by interviewing claimants online/at home using image enhancing technology already in use @HMPO etc.

Your suggestion of a Skype interview is a excellent one and would save them millions of pounds in paperwork.

The problem is I believe you are not allowed to send mail that is either track and trace or requires a signature to the Wolverhampton address given.

That is correct - if you insist on sending the letter ( signed for ) you have to send it to IPC Newcastle who will sign for it, but not open it and will send it to Wolverhampton who will open it . scan it, and send the 'scanned copy' back to IPC Newcastle!

I was advised by IPC - just fax it to us - 'no original on the way' That seems the cheapest most simple solution.