UK pensions-life certificate

[loppylugs1]

so all you guys that are receiving pensions and living in thailand and fiddling the system.LOOK OUT WE WILL GET YOU

sir

Does this mean one cannot rent out the council house, and not claim winter allowance, no free chang no more.

Just strike out winter fuel allowance and insert summer cooling allowance. I sign my own as an ex one of 'em. Now in my 33rd year of officialdom,no problems

[khastan]

Be sure to write UK in big letters on the provided envelope.......

Yes agreed. Does anybody know if UK pensioners are obliged to fill out a Life Certificate to prove they are alive? If so that explains a lot.

Fink when you get to 72 you get a form every year thereon to show you are alive......This new certificate is to try and weed out dodgy claimants.....

Thank's Have you any idea what the form looks like?

[transam]

Nooooooooooo, not got there yet.............

[khastan]

And anyway I don't work for GOV. UK.

I only wish you did - we might then get some proper, up-to-date info on it!

How about one of you (anyone caught up in this) submitting feedback via the appropriate channels on gov.uk so that HMG/DWP correct it?

Well, I have just received an email from IPC confirming the worst in the case of my recently-submitted claim referred to in the separate thread at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/783006-uk-state-pension-claim-unsuccessful-delivery/. Apparently Wolverhampton are solely a mail warehouse and, hence, unable to sign for delivery. However, IPC have also assured me that they are investigating why the Newcastle address hasn't been published on the GOV.UK website.

That said, it looks like Wolverhampton are, in fact, now signing for delivery if thetefldon's latest post at #173 is to be believed. Latest EMS tracking on my claim is still the "Incorrect Address" entry on 9 December, though.

[OJAS]

Be sure to write UK in big letters on the provided envelope.......

+ a "return to sender" address on the back, I suggest, in case it still doesn't make it through the Wolverhampton letterbox for some reason. This is something I now intend doing on ALL mail I send in view of the problems I'm currently experiencing with my claim.

Edited December 18, 2014 by OJAS

[Jip99]

Be sure to write UK in big letters on the provided envelope.......

Yes agreed. Does anybody know if UK pensioners are obliged to fill out a Life Certificate to prove they are alive? If so that explains a lot.

I presume you mean UK based pensioners.

Yes they are.

HOWEVER, this (I believe) is a catch up exercise, directed by the government, targeted at overseas pensioners.

I have no issues with that and I believe they should do it every year for anyone over 70. I am in no way in favour of a pension continuing to be paid to someone who has died.

[Ace of Pop]

Why.?.

[Jip99]

Why.?.

Why, what ?

[OJAS]

Why.?.

What an idiotic question! You should be billed personally by the UK government for State Pension payments made to those who have popped their clogs, I think!!

Edited December 18, 2014 by OJAS

[doctormann]

Just an update on the progress of my Life Certificate.

Because of the reported problems on Wolverhampton not accepting registered mail, I decided to cut them out of the loop. I faxed the certificate, with a cover sheet, to the fax number given on the letter that the IPC sent to me. I don't have a fax machine so just used one of the on-line services that are readily found on the web. This seemed to work OK and I got a confirmation of delivery.

As a backup, I also posted the original of the certificate direct to IPC Newcastle, using the Thai EMS service. Reassuringly expensive, as a certain TV ad used to say! I posted it off on the 16th Dec. and it was delivered to IPC on the 18th. Signed for by someone called MAC but without an actual signature. I suspect that MAC is not actually a real person!

No guarantee, of course, that either of these strategies has resulted in the certificate being intercepted by a relevant person. I'm living in hope on that score and I'll probably try phoning Newcastle next week to find out how things stand - if I can actually get through!

DM

[OJAS]

Just an update on the progress of my Life Certificate.

Because of the reported problems on Wolverhampton not accepting registered mail, I decided to cut them out of the loop. I faxed the certificate, with a cover sheet, to the fax number given on the letter that the IPC sent to me. I don't have a fax machine so just used one of the on-line services that are readily found on the web. This seemed to work OK and I got a confirmation of delivery.

As a backup, I also posted the original of the certificate direct to IPC Newcastle, using the Thai EMS service. Reassuringly expensive, as a certain TV ad used to say! I posted it off on the 16th Dec. and it was delivered to IPC on the 18th. Signed for by someone called MAC but without an actual signature. I suspect that MAC is not actually a real person!

No guarantee, of course, that either of these strategies has resulted in the certificate being intercepted by a relevant person. I'm living in hope on that score and I'll probably try phoning Newcastle next week to find out how things stand - if I can actually get through!

DM

You still need to beware though IMHO. I recall reading on here that, while Newcastle (or fictitious individuals there called MAC) might sign for delivery, they don't actually open the envelope but instead send it to Wolverhampton who then open it, scan its contents and email the scanned contents back to Newcastle!

And you probably won't get far in calling Newcastle over the next fortnight because of the extended Christmas/New Year break back home. In any event, it's apparently better to call them in the afternoon (UK time) towards the end of the week, and, based on my experience last Friday in connection with my claim, I can confirm this. I called them around 10.30pm here and managed to get through to a real live human being straight away without being "serenaded" with the entire suite of Beethoven symphonies from start to finish first!

You may, therefore, wish to put Fri 9 Jan in your diary for the phone call to Newcastle if you're prepared to wait that long.

Edited December 19, 2014 by OJAS

[theoldgit]

Nonsense post, and measured response, removed.

[doctormann]

Just an update on the progress of my Life Certificate.

Because of the reported problems on Wolverhampton not accepting registered mail, I decided to cut them out of the loop. I faxed the certificate, with a cover sheet, to the fax number given on the letter that the IPC sent to me. I don't have a fax machine so just used one of the on-line services that are readily found on the web. This seemed to work OK and I got a confirmation of delivery.

As a backup, I also posted the original of the certificate direct to IPC Newcastle, using the Thai EMS service. Reassuringly expensive, as a certain TV ad used to say! I posted it off on the 16th Dec. and it was delivered to IPC on the 18th. Signed for by someone called MAC but without an actual signature. I suspect that MAC is not actually a real person!

No guarantee, of course, that either of these strategies has resulted in the certificate being intercepted by a relevant person. I'm living in hope on that score and I'll probably try phoning Newcastle next week to find out how things stand - if I can actually get through!

DM

You still need to beware though IMHO. I recall reading on here that, while Newcastle (or fictitious individuals there called MAC) might sign for delivery, they don't actually open the envelope but instead send it to Wolverhampton who then open it, scan its contents and email the scanned contents back to Newcastle!

And you probably won't get far in calling Newcastle over the next fortnight because of the extended Christmas/New Year break back home. In any event, it's apparently better to call them in the afternoon (UK time) towards the end of the week, and, based on my experience last Friday in connection with my claim, I can confirm this. I called them around 10.30pm here and managed to get through to a real live human being straight away without being "serenaded" with the entire suite of Beethoven symphonies from start to finish first!

You may, therefore, wish to put Fri 9 Jan in your diary for the phone call to Newcastle if you're prepared to wait that long.

Absolutely right. The whole procedure obviously needs a complete overhaul, certainly as far as correspondence originating from outside UK is concerned. The IPC certainly used to deal with it's own mail and I seem to recall that it was 'MAC' that signed for my actual Pension Claim, several years ago now. I now believe that they don't even have their own post room - although this seems nonsensical as someone must deal with the mail that comes from Wolverhampton.

I'm hoping that someone relevant intercepted my faxed certificate - but again, any incoming faxes will just end up in the fax machine 'in-tray' and you have to take it on faith that they get to the right person in the end. I thought that fax was a rather outdated technology now - I can hardly believe that it's still in use.

As for phoning Newcastle, I can certainly wait until after New Year - I think that my eight week time limit takes me to the end of January so there is no immediate rush.

DM

[khastan]

Do you ever get the feeling they are making this has difficult as possible for us expats.

Just an update on the progress of my Life Certificate.

Because of the reported problems on Wolverhampton not accepting registered mail, I decided to cut them out of the loop. I faxed the certificate, with a cover sheet, to the fax number given on the letter that the IPC sent to me. I don't have a fax machine so just used one of the on-line services that are readily found on the web. This seemed to work OK and I got a confirmation of delivery.

As a backup, I also posted the original of the certificate direct to IPC Newcastle, using the Thai EMS service. Reassuringly expensive, as a certain TV ad used to say! I posted it off on the 16th Dec. and it was delivered to IPC on the 18th. Signed for by someone called MAC but without an actual signature. I suspect that MAC is not actually a real person!

No guarantee, of course, that either of these strategies has resulted in the certificate being intercepted by a relevant person. I'm living in hope on that score and I'll probably try phoning Newcastle next week to find out how things stand - if I can actually get through!

DM

You still need to beware though IMHO. I recall reading on here that, while Newcastle (or fictitious individuals there called MAC) might sign for delivery, they don't actually open the envelope but instead send it to Wolverhampton who then open it, scan its contents and email the scanned contents back to Newcastle!

And you probably won't get far in calling Newcastle over the next fortnight because of the extended Christmas/New Year break back home. In any event, it's apparently better to call them in the afternoon (UK time) towards the end of the week, and, based on my experience last Friday in connection with my claim, I can confirm this. I called them around 10.30pm here and managed to get through to a real live human being straight away without being "serenaded" with the entire suite of Beethoven symphonies from start to finish first!

You may, therefore, wish to put Fri 9 Jan in your diary for the phone call to Newcastle if you're prepared to wait that long.

Absolutely right. The whole procedure obviously needs a complete overhaul, certainly as far as correspondence originating from outside UK is concerned. The IPC certainly used to deal with it's own mail and I seem to recall that it was 'MAC' that signed for my actual Pension Claim, several years ago now. I now believe that they don't even have their own post room - although this seems nonsensical as someone must deal with the mail that comes from Wolverhampton.

I'm hoping that someone relevant intercepted my faxed certificate - but again, any incoming faxes will just end up in the fax machine 'in-tray' and you have to take it on faith that they get to the right person in the end. I thought that fax was a rather outdated technology now - I can hardly believe that it's still in use.

As for phoning Newcastle, I can certainly wait until after New Year - I think that my eight week time limit takes me to the end of January so there is no immediate rush.

DM

[khastan]

Yes I agree nobody should receive anything they are not entitled to. However there is much better and far more effecient ways to collate the information they want. This is a hastly thought out policy which gives scant regard to the geographfical location of the receipent.

Be sure to write UK in big letters on the provided envelope.......

Yes agreed. Does anybody know if UK pensioners are obliged to fill out a Life Certificate to prove they are alive? If so that explains a lot.

I presume you mean UK based pensioners.

Yes they are.

HOWEVER, this (I believe) is a catch up exercise, directed by the government, targeted at overseas pensioners.

I have no issues with that and I believe they should do it every year for anyone over 70. I am in no way in favour of a pension continuing to be paid to someone who has died.

[khastan]

I have at last received a reply to my email sent to Newcastle. To say I am astounded is putting it mildly and contradicts many of the things people have been told verbally. Also to all the government supporters on here don't shoot me I am only the messenger!

It states

"Our post can take up to 28 days to be received in to the department and can also take 28 days to be received overseas" (bang goes your 56 days which according to one government spokesman is long enough to prove you are alive!)

also we will not accept your life certificate via fax, however the courier address is:-

All correspondence sent by any courier service e.g. TNT, UPS, Fed Ex, DHL etc. should use the address below:

International Pension Centre

Tyne View Park

Benton

Newcastle

NE98 1BA

Telephone: +44 191 2187777

(Opening hours: Monday - Friday, 8am - 6pm United Kingdom time)

It also states which will be of little interest to anybody else: As long as your friend is on the list, then that is satisfactory, if he does not have a stamp then that’s ok.

Well that's it in black and white and solid proof what is acceptable and what is not.

Edited December 19, 2014 by khastan

[khastan]

Would get that confirmed by email if I was you. I have recieved the following email answer to the fax question. also we will not accept your life certificate via fax, however the courier address is:-

All correspondence sent by any courier service e.g. TNT, UPS, Fed Ex, DHL etc. should use the address below:

International Pension Centre

Tyne View Park

Benton

Newcastle

NE98 1BA

khastan, on 16 Dec 2014 - 22:41, said:

theoldgit, on 16 Dec 2014 - 19:28, said:

I contacted them via their website, they responded from this email address.

[email protected]

I don't know if this address receives emails.

Many thanks if you put all the email address in lowercase it goes through.

Sent them a email asking them to confirm that the same person who countersigned my passport photo last year can sign the life certificate and if they will accept faxed completed life certificates and had the usual automated reply back which states the following:

Electronic copies of forms or documents, including scanned documents, are not accepted. Please send either the originals or certified copies of any relevant documents by post to the address below. Personal documents will be returned to you as soon as possible.

Once again conflicting information given from what other posters have been told. Incidentally the address given is the Wolverhampton one.

The Pension Service 11

Mail Handling Site A

Wolverhampton

WV98 1LW

United Kingdom

I sent my fax yesterday, (IPC) having said that was ok. On reading your post I have just phoned Newcastle .

Mine has been accepted - no problem and all clear. When I read your post to him he suggested I report on this website that it is acceptable. I explained that I have done that on several occasions. And anyway I don't work for GOV. UK.

[Jip99]

Yes I agree nobody should receive anything they are not entitled to. However there is much better and far more effecient ways to collate the information they want. This is a hastly thought out policy which gives scant regard to the geographfical location of the receipent.

Be sure to write UK in big letters on the provided envelope.......

Yes agreed. Does anybody know if UK pensioners are obliged to fill out a Life Certificate to prove they are alive? If so that explains a lot.

I presume you mean UK based pensioners.

Yes they are.

HOWEVER, this (I believe) is a catch up exercise, directed by the government, targeted at overseas pensioners.

I have no issues with that and I believe they should do it every year for anyone over 70. I am in no way in favour of a pension continuing to be paid to someone who has died.

I certainly agree that there are numerous better ways of satisfying the DWP that you are still alive. Electronic messaging/personal ID being the easiest.

Also, whilst someone is having a purge/catch up there really is no issue with the timings and however much you wish to adopt the 28 + 28 wording, the fact remains that letters are arriving here in little over 2 weeks and getting back in a similar timescale (I accept the criticism of allowing the Xmas postal period to impact). Extensions are readily available if your letter arrives in a tight timescale.

I may even offer to outsource the service in Thailand for them.

[khastan]

There is very much a issue with 56 days after reading this paragraph I have just received in a email from them. "Our post can take up to 28 days to be received in to the department and can also take 28 days to be received overseas"

[banK]

Hi

Sorry if the answer to the address where to send a recorded delivery life certificate to is already answered.

I sent mine 11 Dec. to the International pension Service in Newcastle, it arrived there 15th Dec. and duly signed for. Went through some security questions and was then told that all was in order - mission compete.

I asked the lady what happens to the ones sent to the Wolverhampton address if recorded -she said that no one there will sign for it, at that point it should come back to you in Thailand.

She told me that ANY communications sent recorded delivery should be sent to the Newcastle address pertaining to pensions etc.

I also asked her what happens to the letter when received there. She said that they are opened there in Newcastle and dealt with there. (someone suggested in this thread that they are sent to Wolverhampton unopened and then resent to Newcastle)!!

They are very aware of the confusion that the mail drop address at Wolverhampton has caused to any recorded letters from abroad (its not only Thailand).

The office has put forward suggestions to those who can make amendments for this to be done.

Anyway - That's from the horses mouth

banK

[OJAS]

There is very much a issue with 56 days after reading this paragraph I have just received in a email from them. "Our post can take up to 28 days to be received in to the department and can also take 28 days to be received overseas"

How can DWP possibly justify the rationale for a 56-day deadline in these circumstances? Surely one of 90 days (or 91 days if they prefer exact whole weeks) would be far more suitable? Can't see how an extra 34/35 days would, in practice, result in a significant increase in the risk of pension payments being made to those who had popped their clogs!

[Jip99]

There is very much a issue with 56 days after reading this paragraph I have just received in a email from them. "Our post can take up to 28 days to be received in to the department and can also take 28 days to be received overseas"

How can DWP possibly justify the rationale for a 56-day deadline in these circumstances? Surely one of 90 days (or 91 days if they prefer exact whole weeks) would be far more suitable? Can't see how an extra 34/35 days would, in practice, result in a significant increase in the risk of pension payments being made to those who had popped their clogs!

Let's start a list of all the OAPs who have been 'timed out' and had their pension payment suspended (having signed and returned said life certificate).

The results with either kill off or support your scaremongering.

[khastan]

I said do not shoot the messenger. I am only confirming that that is what I have been told in a email received today and I certainly am not scaremongering. Starting a list is immaterial the statement they have made speaks for itself and not allowing more time is verging on the ridiculous and even more so on the run up to Christmas

[billbenbob]

Q.

[OJAS]

There is very much a issue with 56 days after reading this paragraph I have just received in a email from them. "Our post can take up to 28 days to be received in to the department and can also take 28 days to be received overseas"

How can DWP possibly justify the rationale for a 56-day deadline in these circumstances? Surely one of 90 days (or 91 days if they prefer exact whole weeks) would be far more suitable? Can't see how an extra 34/35 days would, in practice, result in a significant increase in the risk of pension payments being made to those who had popped their clogs!

Let's start a list of all the OAPs who have been 'timed out' and had their pension payment suspended (having signed and returned said life certificate).

The results with either kill off or support your scaremongering.

If DWP's threats to cut off pension payments to those who miss a ridiculously short 56-day deadline by a single nanosecond are not tantamount to scaremongering, then I don't know what is.

Edited December 19, 2014 by OJAS

[Jip99]

There is very much a issue with 56 days after reading this paragraph I have just received in a email from them. "Our post can take up to 28 days to be received in to the department and can also take 28 days to be received overseas"

How can DWP possibly justify the rationale for a 56-day deadline in these circumstances? Surely one of 90 days (or 91 days if they prefer exact whole weeks) would be far more suitable? Can't see how an extra 34/35 days would, in practice, result in a significant increase in the risk of pension payments being made to those who had popped their clogs!

Let's start a list of all the OAPs who have been 'timed out' and had their pension payment suspended (having signed and returned said life certificate).

The results with either kill off or support your scaremongering.

So DWP's threats to cut off pension payments to those who miss a ridiculously short 56-day deadline by a single nanosecond is not scaremongering, then, is it?

Once again you use emotive words to support your pathetic scaremongering!

DWP do not 'cut off pension payments', they suspend payments until the life certificate is returned. That is not the full story because everyone who contacts the DWP (if they are concerned about the certificate being returned within the deadline) will receive an extension.

Nanoseconds - what planet are you on you drama queen.

[OJAS]

Once again you use emotive words to support your pathetic scaremongering!

DWP do not 'cut off pension payments', they suspend payments until the life certificate is returned. That is not the full story because everyone who contacts the DWP (if they are concerned about the certificate being returned within the deadline) will receive an extension.

Nanoseconds - what planet are you on you drama queen.

Well the menacing tone of the DWP letter as per the example included in post #161 makes it clear that the 56-day deadline is an inflexible one. If DWP are, indeed, willing to consider extensions, then why does the letter not make this clear? At the very least I would have expected to see words such as "if you are likely to be in difficulty with meeting this deadline, please get in touch with us ASAP".

Might you be some paid publicity consultant for the DWP in disguise by any chance? If so, all I can say is that you're doing a pretty lousy job.

[meatboy]

Once again you use emotive words to support your pathetic scaremongering!

DWP do not 'cut off pension payments', they suspend payments until the life certificate is returned. That is not the full story because everyone who contacts the DWP (if they are concerned about the certificate being returned within the deadline) will receive an extension.

Nanoseconds - what planet are you on you drama queen.

Well the menacing tone of the DWP letter as per the example included in post #161 makes it clear that the 56-day deadline is an inflexible one. If DWP are, indeed, willing to consider extensions, then why does the letter not make this clear? At the very least I would have expected to see words such as "if you are likely to be in difficulty with meeting this deadline, please get in touch with us ASAP".

Might you be some paid publicity consultant for the DWP in disguise by any chance? If so, all I can say is that you're doing a pretty lousy job.

in it about time a mod.stepped in with a warning for this ARGUMENTATIVE MOUTHPIECE.

i was sent a pm.because [jipp99] didnt like what i said on this forum.

so ojas you could be next.

Edited December 19, 2014 by meatboy

[khastan]

I think we should all step back and think why Thai Visa and all it's forums exist. It's to exchange knowledge, information and ideas. Ex pats are only a small minority in Thailand and we have no real voice. It has helped me on numerous occasions in the past for which I am very grateful. It is essential therefore, at least until this matter is resolved for everybody involved to think "we are all in it together", to quote a certain prime minister. This is a favourite trick of governments they try and create a situation in the hope it divides people, thus making them weaker, but if we all stick together they can never win. There is a very well known saying "united we conquer divided we fall."

I know some people living in Thailand are fortunate enough to regard the state pension as mere spending money, whilst others, not so fortunate need it to exist. However this current matter is vitally important to a lot of ex pats so it's essential we collate the proven facts, but not what we have been told on the telephone, where no proof exists.

I have already established the following with written proof:

1. They will not accept faxed completed life certificates.

2. Mail sent by any type of courier must be sent to the Newcastle address.

3. They say that mail sent us can take up to 28 days and for them to receive it into their department department can also take 28 days. (This is a little vague has to whether it includes the time sent from Thailand or once in the UK.

4. Anybody on the list can sign and okay if the witness to the form has no rubber stamp.

Can anybody add to this list.

Another point is that a lot of the email I received was in different fonts and sizes so it is clear to me it was copied and pasted from some information they have on record.

Edited December 20, 2014 by khastan

[Jip99]

Once again you use emotive words to support your pathetic scaremongering!

DWP do not 'cut off pension payments', they suspend payments until the life certificate is returned. That is not the full story because everyone who contacts the DWP (if they are concerned about the certificate being returned within the deadline) will receive an extension.

Nanoseconds - what planet are you on you drama queen.

Well the menacing tone of the DWP letter as per the example included in post #161 makes it clear that the 56-day deadline is an inflexible one. If DWP are, indeed, willing to consider extensions, then why does the letter not make this clear? At the very least I would have expected to see words such as "if you are likely to be in difficulty with meeting this deadline, please get in touch with us ASAP".

Might you be some paid publicity consultant for the DWP in disguise by any chance? If so, all I can say is that you're doing a pretty lousy job.

in it about time a mod.stepped in with a warning for this ARGUMENTATIVE MOUTHPIECE.

i was sent a pm.because [jipp99] didnt like what i said on this forum.

so ojas you could be next.

You were sent an email because of your arrogance and it said "Don't EVER tell me to keep my opinions to myself on a public forum."

OJAS has never told me to keep my opinions to myself.