UK pensions-life certificate

[Mobi]

I have at last received a reply to my email sent to Newcastle. To say I am astounded is putting it mildly and contradicts many of the things people have been told verbally. Also to all the government supporters on here don't shoot me I am only the messenger!

It states

"Our post can take up to 28 days to be received in to the department and can also take 28 days to be received overseas" (bang goes your 56 days which according to one government spokesman is long enough to prove you are alive!)

also we will not accept your life certificate via fax, however the courier address is:-

All correspondence sent by any courier service e.g. TNT, UPS, Fed Ex, DHL etc. should use the address below:

International Pension Centre

Tyne View Park

Benton

Newcastle

NE98 1BA

Telephone: +44 191 2187777

(Opening hours: Monday - Friday, 8am - 6pm United Kingdom time)

It also states which will be of little interest to anybody else: As long as your friend is on the list, then that is satisfactory, if he does not have a stamp then that’s ok.

Well that's it in black and white and solid proof what is acceptable and what is not.

It seems to be a classic case of 'left hand... right hand'

Look at the email I just received on 19th Dec, 8.41 pm, Thai time.

"I am writing about your email dated 18 December 2014.

Although we are unable to accept emailed Life Certificates as this is not considered a secure structure we have received your faxed Life Certificate and accepted this.

Yours sincerely

Belinda Bell

Pension Officer | Department for Work and Pensions | Newcastle Pension Centre | International Group | Life Certificate Section | Room TC101 | Tyneview Park | Newcastle upon Tyne | Tel: 0191 21 87777 | Fax: 0191 21 87307 | Textphone 0191 2187280 | www.dwp.gov.uk

Please do not return your Life Certificate by e-mail as this is not a secure structure. Please forward the Life Certificate to us via post or fax. When you return the form could you please quote your National Insurance number and/or your date of birth.

Our postal address is:

The Pension Service 11

Mail Handling Site A

Wolverhampton

Great Britain WV98 1LW

Please consider the environment before printing

Please note information sent via e-mail is not secure as it is transmitted via the internet. The Internet is, by its very nature, an unstructured network. Traffic is routed across multiple servers, each controlled by different organisations or individuals, in order to reach its destination. We would recommend that you do not send personal information via e-mail. Any information sent by e-mail is done so at your own risk."

(end of email)

The underlining is my work.., the embolding and changes in font sizes and red are as they came.

This is direct contradiction to the email you received. For those who read my emailed letter to them, (Post No. 175),you will note that they have not addressed the complaint I made about their postal address not being equipped to sign for registered or couriered mail.

​They seem more concerned with saving the environment than concentrating their attention to ensure that Brits who have worked all their life continue to receive their hard earned, meagre pensions.

The contradictory advice written in two different emails is a total disgrace....

It's time someone wrote to the minister responsible.

[meatboy]

I think we should all step back and think why Thai Visa and all it's forums exist. It's to exchange knowledge, information and ideas. Ex pats are only a small minority in Thailand and we have no real voice. It has helped me on numerous occasions in the past for which I am very grateful. It is essential therefore, at least until this matter is resolved for everybody involved to think "we are all in it together", to quote a certain prime minister. This is a favourite trick of governments they try and create a situation in the hope it divides people, thus making them weaker, but if we all stick together they can never win. There is a very well known saying "united we conquer divided we fall."

I know some people living in Thailand are fortunate enough to regard the state pension as mere spending money, whilst others, not so fortunate need it to exist. However this current matter is vitally important to a lot of ex pats so it's essential we collate the proven facts, but not what we have been told on the telephone, where no proof exists.

I have already established the following with written proof:

1. They will not accept faxed completed life certificates.

2. Mail sent by any type of courier must be sent to the Newcastle address.

3. They say that mail sent us can take up to 28 days and for them to receive it into their department department can also take 28 days. (This is a little vague has to whether it includes the time sent from Thailand or once in the UK.

4. Anybody on the list can sign and okay if the witness to the form has no rubber stamp.

Can anybody add to this list.

Another point is that a lot of the email I received was in different fonts and sizes so it is clear to me it was copied and pasted from some information they have on record.

i am with you on this,i have already made my feelings known,and that is fact.

so far i have not received an actual reply from the shadow minister for work and pensions,e-mail sent and received auto reply last weekend.and also an e-mail to international pension service asking them what will happen to my life certificate sent by registered post to wolverhamton,someone will have to open it as i did not put my address on the back as i have NEVER had any post sent from thailand [registered] go missing.

[khastan]

I have at last received a reply to my email sent to Newcastle. To say I am astounded is putting it mildly and contradicts many of the things people have been told verbally. Also to all the government supporters on here don't shoot me I am only the messenger!

It states

"Our post can take up to 28 days to be received in to the department and can also take 28 days to be received overseas" (bang goes your 56 days which according to one government spokesman is long enough to prove you are alive!)

also we will not accept your life certificate via fax, however the courier address is:-

All correspondence sent by any courier service e.g. TNT, UPS, Fed Ex, DHL etc. should use the address below:

International Pension Centre

Tyne View Park

Benton

Newcastle

NE98 1BA

Telephone: +44 191 2187777

(Opening hours: Monday - Friday, 8am - 6pm United Kingdom time)

It also states which will be of little interest to anybody else: As long as your friend is on the list, then that is satisfactory, if he does not have a stamp then that’s ok.

Well that's it in black and white and solid proof what is acceptable and what is not.

It seems to be a classic case of 'left hand... right hand'

Look at the email I just received on 19th Dec, 8.41 pm, Thai time.

"I am writing about your email dated 18 December 2014.

Although we are unable to accept emailed Life Certificates as this is not considered a secure structure we have received your faxed Life Certificate and accepted this.

Yours sincerely

Belinda Bell

Pension Officer | Department for Work and Pensions | Newcastle Pension Centre | International Group | Life Certificate Section | Room TC101 | Tyneview Park | Newcastle upon Tyne | Tel: 0191 21 87777 | Fax: 0191 21 87307 | Textphone 0191 2187280 | www.dwp.gov.uk

Please do not return your Life Certificate by e-mail as this is not a secure structure. Please forward the Life Certificate to us via post or fax. When you return the form could you please quote your National Insurance number and/or your date of birth.

Our postal address is:

The Pension Service 11

Mail Handling Site A

Wolverhampton

Great Britain WV98 1LW

Please consider the environment before printing

Please note information sent via e-mail is not secure as it is transmitted via the internet. The Internet is, by its very nature, an unstructured network. Traffic is routed across multiple servers, each controlled by different organisations or individuals, in order to reach its destination. We would recommend that you do not send personal information via e-mail. Any information sent by e-mail is done so at your own risk."

(end of email)

The underlining is my work.., the embolding and changes in font sizes and red are as they came.

This is direct contradiction to the email you received. For those who read my emailed letter to them, (Post No. 175),you will note that they have not addressed the complaint I made about their postal address not being equipped to sign for registered or couriered mail.

​They seem more concerned with saving the environment than concentrating their attention to ensure that Brits who have worked all their life continue to receive their hard earned, meagre pensions.

The contradictory advice written in two different emails is a total disgrace....

It's time someone wrote to the minister responsible.

Yes like you say two entirely different contradicting statements in writing admissible in a court of law. Proof to me that either this false information from them is deliberate or they do not know what they are doing and the level of incompetence defies belief. Excellent suggestion of yours to write to the minister responsible. One small problem though I doubt very much that they could care less about any people that cannot vote from them.

I have decide to post the entire email received after you posted yours. It seems both Ellen and Belinda follows different rules and regulations in the same department.

Thank you for contacting Newcastle Pension Centre (International Group) with your email dated 16^th December 2014

As long as your friend is on the list, then that is satisfactory, if he does not have a stamp then that’s ok.

Also we will not accept your life certificate via fax, however the courier address is:-

All correspondence sent by any courier service e.g. TNT, UPS, Fed Ex, DHL etc. should use the address below:

International Pension Centre

Tyne View Park

Benton

Newcastle

NE98 1BA

Telephone: +44 191 2187777

(Opening hours: Monday - Friday, 8am - 6pm United Kingdom time)

Yours Sincerely

Ellen

Our post can take up to 28 days to be received in to the department and can also take 28 days to be received overseas

+44 191 2187777

The Pension Service 11

Mail Handling Site A

Wolverhampton

WV98 1LW

United Kingdom

[email protected]

Please note: Any information considered to be of a sensitive nature has been removed from your original email to maintain the confidentiality and security of taxpayer information.

[Eff1n2ret]

Apart from the concerns raised about returned completed Life Certificates getting lost in the post, there is also the possibility of some being sent out from the UK and going astray. I once had a little tangle with HMRC because I didn't receive a tax return that year (since when I do it all online, much easier and quicker). Therefore, watching this thread and also knowing at least one person who's had the Certificate but started receiving the state pension far more recently than myself, I wondered whether my cert had got lost in the post - so I sent an email to Newcastle a few days ago.

The reply has just come back. They say that the Life Certificate enquiry is a "random exercise", and I haven't been "selected this time".

So if you haven't had one, probably not worth worrying - although you won't know for sure, will you? The 'Government Gateway' setup via which I now submit my tax return is pretty efficient. I wonder if there isn't some way they could use it to verify that you're still alive.

[khastan]

I consider it very important to those who have not sent off their life certificates to establish once and for all if faxed completed forms are allowed. To this end I have sent the following email and I hope you don't mind Mobi but I have used part of the emal sent to you.

Dear Helen

Thank you for your email.

Can you please confirm which of these statements received in emails from your department is correct.

The answer from you which states Also we will not accept your life certificate via fax

Or the answer given to a friend in a email from Belinda Bell

Pension Officer | Department for Work and Pensions | Newcastle Pension Centre | International Group | Life Certificate Section | Room TC101 | Tyneview Park | Newcastle upon Tyne | Tel: 0191 21 87777 | Fax: 0191 21 87307 | Textphone 0191 2187280 | www.dwp.gov.uk

Please do not return your Life Certificate by e-mail as this is not a secure structure. Please forward the Life Certificate to us via post or fax. When you return the form could you please quote your National Insurance number and/or your date of birth.

I have at last received a reply to my email sent to Newcastle. To say I am astounded is putting it mildly and contradicts many of the things people have been told verbally. Also to all the government supporters on here don't shoot me I am only the messenger!

It states

"Our post can take up to 28 days to be received in to the department and can also take 28 days to be received overseas" (bang goes your 56 days which according to one government spokesman is long enough to prove you are alive!)

also we will not accept your life certificate via fax, however the courier address is:-

All correspondence sent by any courier service e.g. TNT, UPS, Fed Ex, DHL etc. should use the address below:

International Pension Centre

Tyne View Park

Benton

Newcastle

NE98 1BA

Telephone: +44 191 2187777

(Opening hours: Monday - Friday, 8am - 6pm United Kingdom time)

It also states which will be of little interest to anybody else: As long as your friend is on the list, then that is satisfactory, if he does not have a stamp then that’s ok.

Well that's it in black and white and solid proof what is acceptable and what is not.

It seems to be a classic case of 'left hand... right hand'

Look at the email I just received on 19th Dec, 8.41 pm, Thai time.

"I am writing about your email dated 18 December 2014.

Although we are unable to accept emailed Life Certificates as this is not considered a secure structure we have received your faxed Life Certificate and accepted this.

Yours sincerely

Belinda Bell

Pension Officer | Department for Work and Pensions | Newcastle Pension Centre | International Group | Life Certificate Section | Room TC101 | Tyneview Park | Newcastle upon Tyne | Tel: 0191 21 87777 | Fax: 0191 21 87307 | Textphone 0191 2187280 | www.dwp.gov.uk

Please do not return your Life Certificate by e-mail as this is not a secure structure. Please forward the Life Certificate to us via post or fax. When you return the form could you please quote your National Insurance number and/or your date of birth.

Our postal address is:

The Pension Service 11

Mail Handling Site A

Wolverhampton

Great Britain WV98 1LW

Please consider the environment before printing

Please note information sent via e-mail is not secure as it is transmitted via the internet. The Internet is, by its very nature, an unstructured network. Traffic is routed across multiple servers, each controlled by different organisations or individuals, in order to reach its destination. We would recommend that you do not send personal information via e-mail. Any information sent by e-mail is done so at your own risk."

(end of email)

The underlining is my work.., the embolding and changes in font sizes and red are as they came.

This is direct contradiction to the email you received. For those who read my emailed letter to them, (Post No. 175),you will note that they have not addressed the complaint I made about their postal address not being equipped to sign for registered or couriered mail.

​They seem more concerned with saving the environment than concentrating their attention to ensure that Brits who have worked all their life continue to receive their hard earned, meagre pensions.

The contradictory advice written in two different emails is a total disgrace....

It's time someone wrote to the minister responsible.

Yes like you say two entirely different contradicting statements in writing admissible in a court of law. Proof to me that either this false information from them is deliberate or they do not know what they are doing and the level of incompetence defies belief. Excellent suggestion of yours to write to the minister responsible. One small problem though I doubt very much that they could care less about any people that cannot vote from them.

I have decide to post the entire email received after you posted yours. It seems both Ellen and Belinda follows different rules and regulations in the same department.

Thank you for contacting Newcastle Pension Centre (International Group) with your email dated 16^th December 2014

As long as your friend is on the list, then that is satisfactory, if he does not have a stamp then that’s ok.

Also we will not accept your life certificate via fax, however the courier address is:-

All correspondence sent by any courier service e.g. TNT, UPS, Fed Ex, DHL etc. should use the address below:

International Pension Centre

Tyne View Park

Benton

Newcastle

NE98 1BA

Telephone: +44 191 2187777

(Opening hours: Monday - Friday, 8am - 6pm United Kingdom time)

Yours Sincerely

Ellen

Our post can take up to 28 days to be received in to the department and can also take 28 days to be received overseas

+44 191 2187777

The Pension Service 11

Mail Handling Site A

Wolverhampton

WV98 1LW

United Kingdom

[email protected]

Please note: Any information considered to be of a sensitive nature has been removed from your original email to maintain the confidentiality and security of taxpayer information.

[loppylugs1]

Well ive just been to see my local doctor to ask him to sign and stamp my life certificate , his reaction was sorry no . He said it would be best for me to go to a large private hospital and ask there. I do have a good Thai friend who is a doctor of veterinary medicine , but I can't see doctor of veterinary medicine mentioned on the list of acceptable names who can sign the life certificate, any one know if a Vet would be acceptable ?

As probably the only one authorised to sign this document in Thailand, according to the requirements I feel quite honoured to have been catapulted into this position,and willingly accept all requests accordingly. A small gesture of a bottle of Chang would however be much appreciated.

Now I realise by putting myself in this position I may unerringly be putting myself in jeopardy,double probably, as being honest I admit my position in Thailand can be questioned because of the recent cold snap I admit am accepting payments to keep my aging body warm,....there honesty is the best policy. I am sure there are no loose lips here

If any details of army service is requested I will willingly supply ,but unfortunetly I will have to kill you later as it is classified,not suiting everybody probably ,but an offer

[ThaiLife]

Ok , so Ive now got my life Life Certificate duly signed with a nice big blue offical ink stamp by some one who is shown on the official list.

I have faxed off a copy of the completed Life Certificate to the fax number shown of the original letter ( 001-44-1912187307 )

I want to now send the original signed and stamped Life Certificate along with a business card from the person who signed the Life Certificate.

if I use a courier ( signed for ) I have to use this address

International Pension Centre
Tyne View Park
Benton
Newcastle
NE98 1BA

Or if I want to send the completed Life Certificate using a tracked ( non signed for ) EMS Thai postal service , then I have to use this address

The Pension Service 11
Mail Handling Site A
Wolverhampton
Great Britain WV98 1LW

Have I got this right ?

TL

[khastan]

Sorry quite frankly I have not got a clue, information from them either in writing or on the telephone seems to conflict. I think the first part referring to using a courier is correct however I was always under the impression that things sent by EMS required a signature. If it's any help I have sent mine duly signed and witnessed using Pamfax through the computer. I have asked them to confirm acceptance by email in a separate letter sent with fax so now I wait with bated breath for their reply.

Ok , so Ive now got my life Life Certificate duly signed with a nice big blue offical ink stamp by some one who is shown on the official list.

I have faxed off a copy of the completed Life Certificate to the fax number shown of the original letter ( 001-44-1912187307 )

I want to now send the original signed and stamped Life Certificate along with a business card from the person who signed the Life Certificate.

if I use a courier ( signed for ) I have to use this address

International Pension Centre
Tyne View Park
Benton
Newcastle
NE98 1BA

Or if I want to send the completed Life Certificate using a tracked ( non signed for ) EMS Thai postal service , then I have to use this address

The Pension Service 11
Mail Handling Site A
Wolverhampton
Great Britain WV98 1LW

Have I got this right ?

TL

Edited December 21, 2014 by khastan

[Jip99]

Well ive just been to see my local doctor to ask him to sign and stamp my life certificate , his reaction was sorry no . He said it would be best for me to go to a large private hospital and ask there. I do have a good Thai friend who is a doctor of veterinary medicine , but I can't see doctor of veterinary medicine mentioned on the list of acceptable names who can sign the life certificate, any one know if a Vet would be acceptable ?

As probably the only one authorised to sign this document in Thailand, according to the requirements I feel quite honoured to have been catapulted into this position,and willingly accept all requests accordingly. A small gesture of a bottle of Chang would however be much appreciated.

Now I realise by putting myself in this position I may unerringly be putting myself in jeopardy,double probably, as being honest I admit my position in Thailand can be questioned because of the recent cold snap I admit am accepting payments to keep my aging body warm,....there honesty is the best policy. I am sure there are no loose lips here

If any details of army service is requested I will willingly supply ,but unfortunetly I will have to kill you later as it is classified,not suiting everybody probably ,but an offer

Ha Ha! Beat you to it Loppy - I have submitted my business plan to DWP to handle ALL their Thai OAP's. Expats just have to send the docs back to an Isaan post box and I will do the rest

[ThaiLife]

Well ive just been to see my local doctor to ask him to sign and stamp my life certificate , his reaction was sorry no . He said it would be best for me to go to a large private hospital and ask there. I do have a good Thai friend who is a doctor of veterinary medicine , but I can't see doctor of veterinary medicine mentioned on the list of acceptable names who can sign the life certificate, any one know if a Vet would be acceptable ?

As probably the only one authorised to sign this document in Thailand, according to the requirements I feel quite honoured to have been catapulted into this position,and willingly accept all requests accordingly. A small gesture of a bottle of Chang would however be much appreciated.

Now I realise by putting myself in this position I may unerringly be putting myself in jeopardy,double probably, as being honest I admit my position in Thailand can be questioned because of the recent cold snap I admit am accepting payments to keep my aging body warm,....there honesty is the best policy. I am sure there are no loose lips here

If any details of army service is requested I will willingly supply ,but unfortunetly I will have to kill you later as it is classified,not suiting everybody probably ,but an offer

Damm , ive just forked out 400Baht for the signature and lovely blue stamp

[ThaiLife]

Sorry quite frankly I have not got a clue, information from them either in writing or on the telephone seems to conflict. I think the first part referring to using a courier is correct however I was always under the impression that things sent by EMS required a signature. If it's any help I have sent mine duly signed and witnessed using Pamfax through the computer. I have asked them to confirm acceptance by email in a separate letter sent with fax so now I wait with bated breath for their reply.

Ok , so Ive now got my life Life Certificate duly signed with a nice big blue offical ink stamp by some one who is shown on the official list.

I have faxed off a copy of the completed Life Certificate to the fax number shown of the original letter ( 001-44-1912187307 )

I want to now send the original signed and stamped Life Certificate along with a business card from the person who signed the Life Certificate.

if I use a courier ( signed for ) I have to use this address

International Pension Centre

Tyne View Park

Benton

Newcastle

NE98 1BA

Or if I want to send the completed Life Certificate using a tracked ( non signed for ) EMS Thai postal service , then I have to use this address

The Pension Service 11

Mail Handling Site A

Wolverhampton

Great Britain WV98 1LW

Have I got this right ?

TL

I did not know about the Pamfax , this whole LC process is a shambles , I thought that with Thai post office EMS you could have just tracking or tracking and signed for , then theres the possible option to send the completed certificate to a friend in the UK and get them to post it on from there , with a better chance it will arrive .

TL

[Jip99]

I have signed and returned 8 certificates in the last 10 days.

I sent them all back by Airmail, as instructed on the life certificate form.

Let's see if they get there

[khastan]

I had to use Pamfax http://www.pamfax.biz/en/ because I could find no one where I live that still used fax machines. You can get a free trial of 3 pages sent and it even gives you a proper fax report. I honestly do not know about the EMS situation. All I can say whatever I have sent or received using EMS always required a signature. Fully agree a complete and utter shambles and to send this out before the Christmas and New Year holidays with a strict time scale defies belief. The friend idea seems a good one but do not forget what I was told in writing that it can take up to 28 days for mail to be received in the department.

Sorry quite frankly I have not got a clue, information from them either in writing or on the telephone seems to conflict. I think the first part referring to using a courier is correct however I was always under the impression that things sent by EMS required a signature. If it's any help I have sent mine duly signed and witnessed using Pamfax through the computer. I have asked them to confirm acceptance by email in a separate letter sent with fax so now I wait with bated breath for their reply.

Ok , so Ive now got my life Life Certificate duly signed with a nice big blue offical ink stamp by some one who is shown on the official list.

I have faxed off a copy of the completed Life Certificate to the fax number shown of the original letter ( 001-44-1912187307 )

I want to now send the original signed and stamped Life Certificate along with a business card from the person who signed the Life Certificate.

if I use a courier ( signed for ) I have to use this address

International Pension Centre
Tyne View Park
Benton
Newcastle
NE98 1BA

Or if I want to send the completed Life Certificate using a tracked ( non signed for ) EMS Thai postal service , then I have to use this address

The Pension Service 11
Mail Handling Site A
Wolverhampton
Great Britain WV98 1LW

Have I got this right ?

TL

I did not know about the Pamfax , this whole LC process is a shambles , I thought that with Thai post office EMS you could have just tracking or tracking and signed for , then theres the possible option to send the completed certificate to a friend in the UK and get them to post it on from there , with a better chance it will arrive .

TL

[ThaiLife]

I have signed and returned 8 certificates in the last 10 days.

I sent them all back by Airmail, as instructed on the life certificate form.

Let's see if they get there

When I send some thing from Thailand be it EMS or ordinary letter mail , thats considered Airmail , is there a difference . The idea of sending multiple signed certificates seems like it may be the way to go , if the first few don't make it then some of the rest just might

TL

[Jip99]

I have signed and returned 8 certificates in the last 10 days.

I sent them all back by Airmail, as instructed on the life certificate form.

Let's see if they get there

When I send some thing from Thailand be it EMS or ordinary letter mail , thats considered Airmail , is there a difference . The idea of sending multiple signed certificates seems like it may be the way to go , if the first few don't make it then some of the rest just might

TL

EMS just stands for "Express Mail Service".

The theory is that it is quicker (3-6 days), items are insured and you can track and trace. All 3 are arguably unnecessary and substantially increases the cost. Insurance is not needed and track and trace is worth nothing if receipt of the document does not get onto the DWP system - you will still be sent a new one.

Practice is somewhat different to the theory and there are numerous Thai Visa threads on the subject.

I may need to eat my words, if these life certificates don't get there, but I have never had a problem with post going from Thailand to the UK. Usually 10/14 days by standard Airmail.

[ThaiLife]

I have signed and returned 8 certificates in the last 10 days.

I sent them all back by Airmail, as instructed on the life certificate form.

Let's see if they get there

When I send some thing from Thailand be it EMS or ordinary letter mail , thats considered Airmail , is there a difference . The idea of sending multiple signed certificates seems like it may be the way to go , if the first few don't make it then some of the rest just might

TL

EMS just stands for "Express Mail Service".

The theory is that it is quicker (3-6 days), items are insured and you can track and trace. All 3 are arguably unnecessary and substantially increases the cost. Insurance is not needed and track and trace is worth nothing if receipt of the document does not get onto the DWP system - you will still be sent a new one.

Practice is somewhat different to the theory and there are numerous Thai Visa threads on the subject.

I may need to eat my words, if these life certificates don't get there, but I have never had a problem with post going from Thailand to the UK. Usually 10/14 days by standard Airmail.

Thanks for the EMS explanation, so any and all letter mail sent from Thailand to other countries is considered '' Airmail '' ? and if the the life certificate instruction form advises that the completed form be returned by using '' Airmail '' then its a matter of just posting the item back to the UK .

I remember years ago using a special '' Airmail '' type envelope that has the words PAR AVION / BY AIRMAIL on the front and a red and blue boarder around the envelope , when you sent your 8 certificates back '' Airmail '' did you use this type of envelope or just an ordinary envelop

TL

[ThaiLife]

I had to use Pamfax http://www.pamfax.biz/en/ because I could find no one where I live that still used fax machines. You can get a free trial of 3 pages sent and it even gives you a proper fax report. I honestly do not know about the EMS situation. All I can say whatever I have sent or received using EMS always required a signature. Fully agree a complete and utter shambles and to send this out before the Christmas and New Year holidays with a strict time scale defies belief. The friend idea seems a good one but do not forget what I was told in writing that it can take up to 28 days for mail to be received in the department.

Sorry quite frankly I have not got a clue, information from them either in writing or on the telephone seems to conflict. I think the first part referring to using a courier is correct however I was always under the impression that things sent by EMS required a signature. If it's any help I have sent mine duly signed and witnessed using Pamfax through the computer. I have asked them to confirm acceptance by email in a separate letter sent with fax so now I wait with bated breath for their reply.

Ok , so Ive now got my life Life Certificate duly signed with a nice big blue offical ink stamp by some one who is shown on the official list.

I have faxed off a copy of the completed Life Certificate to the fax number shown of the original letter ( 001-44-1912187307 )

I want to now send the original signed and stamped Life Certificate along with a business card from the person who signed the Life Certificate.

if I use a courier ( signed for ) I have to use this address

International Pension Centre

Tyne View Park

Benton

Newcastle

NE98 1BA

Or if I want to send the completed Life Certificate using a tracked ( non signed for ) EMS Thai postal service , then I have to use this address

The Pension Service 11

Mail Handling Site A

Wolverhampton

Great Britain WV98 1LW

Have I got this right ?

TL

I did not know about the Pamfax , this whole LC process is a shambles , I thought that with Thai post office EMS you could have just tracking or tracking and signed for , then theres the possible option to send the completed certificate to a friend in the UK and get them to post it on from there , with a better chance it will arrive .

TL

For what should be a simple process in this electronic age we live in , where vast amounts of personal information are electronically sent and receive and confirmed , it makes me scratch my head in wonderment why this simple process for me at lease is becoming a thorn in the side .

I'm off to the post office in the morning and will ask about the EMS / sign for / not sign for , and as for the sending some thing to a friend or relative in the UK and getting them to post it on, the though has crossed my mind when the envelope arrives from me in Thailand , but with a UK post mark , may be a covering letter to explain could be the answer .

TL

[Jip99]

I have signed and returned 8 certificates in the last 10 days.

I sent them all back by Airmail, as instructed on the life certificate form.

Let's see if they get there

When I send some thing from Thailand be it EMS or ordinary letter mail , thats considered Airmail , is there a difference . The idea of sending multiple signed certificates seems like it may be the way to go , if the first few don't make it then some of the rest just might

TL

EMS just stands for "Express Mail Service".

The theory is that it is quicker (3-6 days), items are insured and you can track and trace. All 3 are arguably unnecessary and substantially increases the cost. Insurance is not needed and track and trace is worth nothing if receipt of the document does not get onto the DWP system - you will still be sent a new one.

Practice is somewhat different to the theory and there are numerous Thai Visa threads on the subject.

I may need to eat my words, if these life certificates don't get there, but I have never had a problem with post going from Thailand to the UK. Usually 10/14 days by standard Airmail.

Thanks for the EMS explanation, so any and all letter mail sent from Thailand to other countries is considered '' Airmail '' ? and if the the life certificate instruction form advises that the completed form be returned by using '' Airmail '' then its a matter of just posting the item back to the UK .

I remember years ago using a special '' Airmail '' type envelope that has the words PAR AVION / BY AIRMAIL on the front and a red and blue boarder around the envelope , when you sent your 8 certificates back '' Airmail '' did you use this type of envelope or just an ordinary envelop

TL

Ordinary envelope - the missus posted them - but I recall our local post office putting on the blue airmail sticker after I said "Airmail please"

[ThaiLife]

Jip99 , thanks for that

Well to day I went to the local post office with 2 completed life certificates , one addressed to

international Pension Centre
Tyne View Park
Benton
Newcastle
NE98 1BA

And it was sent Registered + signed for with a tracking number


The second was sent to

The Pension Service 11
Mail Handling Site A
Wolverhampton
Great Britain WV98 1LW

And was sent normal Airmail

Both envelopes had a blue sticker put on them saying '' Airmail ''

After I had paid the post office counter assistant , I asked if there was an option to send a letter to the UK and be issued a tracking number , but required no final end destination signature when delivered ( I should have asked this question first ) , the answer was no , but there's an option to send a letter to the UK with a tracking number , and requires a signature but a little slower that EMS .

So the post office options for sending a letter were

1. EMS ( quicker than normal mail ) with a tracking number and has to be signed for when received at its destination = 950 Baht

2. Registered Mail +Tracking number, has to be signed for when received at its destination , ( normal mail delivery speed ) = 85 Baht

2. Normal '' Airmail' no tracking , no signed for when received at its destination = 24 Baht

I'm not sure if I heard the postman right , but I think he said that the tracking number will show the letters movements right up until its received at the destination in the UK ??

As I walked out of the post office the postman who delivers to my house handed me a letter , it was from my private pension provider and blow me down another life certificate , may be a bit off topic but heres the private pension letter and life certificate

At lease the private pension life certificate does not require a stamp

I'm going to wait until the first week of the new year and then telephone to see if any of my 2 letters or the fax has arrived

I only became a pensioner in May of this year .

TL

[ThaiLife]

I sent an email asking if I could send my completed life certificate by FAX , this is the reply I have just had back to day

So much for my FAX

TL

[khastan]

Just received email from them it states and I quote "Your life certificate has been received and actioned." nothing else.

I sent an email asking if I could send my completed life certificate by FAX , this is the reply I have just had back to day

So much for my FAX

TL

[khastan]

That is a perfectly reasonable proof of life certificate to expect those receiving a private pension to complete and also easy to get an acceptable witness to sign it. I have filled such a form out on at least two occasions since retired and just faxed it back with no problems whatsoever. If it's acceptable to a private pension provider when the sum paid out to those more fortunate is greater than the miserly goverment pension. It has to be asked why can't the DWP follow similair guidelines instead of making it difficult.

Jip99 , thanks for that

Well to day I went to the local post office with 2 completed life certificates , one addressed to

international Pension Centre
Tyne View Park
Benton
Newcastle
NE98 1BA

And it was sent Registered + signed for with a tracking number


The second was sent to

The Pension Service 11
Mail Handling Site A
Wolverhampton
Great Britain WV98 1LW

And was sent normal Airmail

Both envelopes had a blue sticker put on them saying '' Airmail ''

After I had paid the post office counter assistant , I asked if there was an option to send a letter to the UK and be issued a tracking number , but required no final end destination signature when delivered ( I should have asked this question first ) , the answer was no , but there's an option to send a letter to the UK with a tracking number , and requires a signature but a little slower that EMS .

So the post office options for sending a letter were

1. EMS ( quicker than normal mail ) with a tracking number and has to be signed for when received at its destination = 950 Baht

2. Registered Mail +Tracking number, has to be signed for when received at its destination , ( normal mail delivery speed ) = 85 Baht

2. Normal '' Airmail' no tracking , no signed for when received at its destination = 24 Baht

I'm not sure if I heard the postman right , but I think he said that the tracking number will show the letters movements right up until its received at the destination in the UK ??

As I walked out of the post office the postman who delivers to my house handed me a letter , it was from my private pension provider and blow me down another life certificate , may be a bit off topic but heres the private pension letter and life certificate

At lease the private pension life certificate does not require a stamp

I'm going to wait until the first week of the new year and then telephone to see if any of my 2 letters or the fax has arrived

I only became a pensioner in May of this year .

TL

[khastan]

It was also sent from the following address [email protected] and also stated, note the words post or fax not both Please do not return your Life Certificate by email as this is not a secure structure. Please forward your Life Certificate to us via post or fax.

That is a perfectly reasonable proof of life certificate to expect those receiving a private pension to complete and also easy to get an acceptable witness to sign it. I have filled such a form out on at least two occasions since retired and just faxed it back with no problems whatsoever. If it's acceptable to a private pension provider when the sum paid out to those more fortunate is greater than the miserly goverment pension. It has to be asked why can't the DWP follow similair guidelines instead of making it difficult.

Jip99 , thanks for that

Well to day I went to the local post office with 2 completed life certificates , one addressed to

international Pension Centre
Tyne View Park
Benton
Newcastle
NE98 1BA

And it was sent Registered + signed for with a tracking number


The second was sent to

The Pension Service 11
Mail Handling Site A
Wolverhampton
Great Britain WV98 1LW

And was sent normal Airmail

Both envelopes had a blue sticker put on them saying '' Airmail ''

After I had paid the post office counter assistant , I asked if there was an option to send a letter to the UK and be issued a tracking number , but required no final end destination signature when delivered ( I should have asked this question first ) , the answer was no , but there's an option to send a letter to the UK with a tracking number , and requires a signature but a little slower that EMS .

So the post office options for sending a letter were

1. EMS ( quicker than normal mail ) with a tracking number and has to be signed for when received at its destination = 950 Baht

2. Registered Mail +Tracking number, has to be signed for when received at its destination , ( normal mail delivery speed ) = 85 Baht

2. Normal '' Airmail' no tracking , no signed for when received at its destination = 24 Baht

I'm not sure if I heard the postman right , but I think he said that the tracking number will show the letters movements right up until its received at the destination in the UK ??

As I walked out of the post office the postman who delivers to my house handed me a letter , it was from my private pension provider and blow me down another life certificate , may be a bit off topic but heres the private pension letter and life certificate

At lease the private pension life certificate does not require a stamp

I'm going to wait until the first week of the new year and then telephone to see if any of my 2 letters or the fax has arrived

I only became a pensioner in May of this year .

TL

[thetefldon]

I started this topic seeking some advice about life certificates. As is usual on these type of subjects TV members rallied round and there has been some excellent advice and sharing of experiences to date. I am pleased to say that I have now resolved the issues I was having ith the Wolverhampton address not accepting "signed for" mail.

In the attached email from the "complaints" department at DWP you will see (1) they did receive my life cert which was sent EMS track and trace, (2) it was accepted at Wolverhapton, (3) it found it's way to Newcastle, where it was accepted/processed and the big one, (4)from the 5th January 2015 Wolverhampton have been instructed to accept signed for mail.

The email also expalins how to make a complaint to DWPUK if you so desire, it includes a name and way to contact them.

Now I should add that as such I did not complain, I phoned the IPC for advice and sent one e-mail explaining my situation, the email was clearly passed to the complaints department.

I hope this helps anyone who is concerned about their life certificate and it's journey to the IPC in Newcastle.

Just to summarise things as they happened for me:

• 9th December received life cert posted on 23rd November
• 11th December life cert sign by a Thai Teacher friend and returned EMS to Wolverhampton address
• 15th December life certificate arrived Wolverhampton EMS endorsed "wrongly directed"
• 15th December phone call to IPC advisor
• 17th December emailed IPC expressing my concerns
• 17th December EMS now endorsed "delivery sucessful"
• 18th December reply to email saying being passed to IPC
• 22nd December Resolution email received(attached)

I also used social media(Twitter) a fair bit including @DWPgovuk in tweets(ranting).

So 13 days to get things sorted. I call that a result.

Finally a couple of thoughts for the future for other UK pensioners in Thailand who have to go through this.

• Can we make this a pinned topic?
• Anyone thought of compiling a list of British expats willing and qualified to sign life certificates?

I would certainly offer my services for signing, since as ex army/police/teacher(in that order) I reckon I qualify. Anyone in Phetchabun or the surrounding area please feel free to pm me if you need a certificate signing and no I don't have a rubber stamp

[nong38]

They should extend this sort of system to all benefit payments, especially those with unpronounceable names and give us all a bit of break!

[jacky54]

Do you think they check on the children they fork out millions for in child benefit for kids in places like Poland and Romania for people who have never paid into the system? They get to the UK get work that is not enough to tax, the claim tax credit, housing benefit and child benefit, can add up to 2k a month. At the same time they freeze pensions and send out these forms, better off a foreigner than a UK national these days.

[ThaiLife]

I started this topic seeking some advice about life certificates. As is usual on these type of subjects TV members rallied round and there has been some excellent advice and sharing of experiences to date. I am pleased to say that I have now resolved the issues I was having ith the Wolverhampton address not accepting "signed for" mail.

In the attached email from the "complaints" department at DWP you will see (1) they did receive my life cert which was sent EMS track and trace, (2) it was accepted at Wolverhapton, (3) it found it's way to Newcastle, where it was accepted/processed and the big one, (4)from the 5th January 2015 Wolverhampton have been instructed to accept signed for mail.

The email also expalins how to make a complaint to DWPUK if you so desire, it includes a name and way to contact them.

Now I should add that as such I did not complain, I phoned the IPC for advice and sent one e-mail explaining my situation, the email was clearly passed to the complaints department.

I hope this helps anyone who is concerned about their life certificate and it's journey to the IPC in Newcastle.

Just to summarise things as they happened for me:

• 9th December received life cert posted on 23rd November
• 11th December life cert sign by a Thai Teacher friend and returned EMS to Wolverhampton address
• 15th December life certificate arrived Wolverhampton EMS endorsed "wrongly directed"
• 15th December phone call to IPC advisor
• 17th December emailed IPC expressing my concerns
• 17th December EMS now endorsed "delivery sucessful"
• 18th December reply to email saying being passed to IPC
• 22nd December Resolution email received(attached)

I also used social media(Twitter) a fair bit including @DWPgovuk in tweets(ranting).

So 13 days to get things sorted. I call that a result.

Finally a couple of thoughts for the future for other UK pensioners in Thailand who have to go through this.

• Can we make this a pinned topic?
• Anyone thought of compiling a list of British expats willing and qualified to sign life certificates?

I would certainly offer my services for signing, since as ex army/police/teacher(in that order) I reckon I qualify. Anyone in Phetchabun or the surrounding area please feel free to pm me if you need a certificate signing and no I don't have a rubber stamp

Thanks for the update

Item ( 4 ) on the email reply seems to clarify the '' signed for '' situation as from 5th of January

Just a thought

The letter arrived at the Wolverhampton address on the 15th of December and EMS tracking showed '' wrongly directed '' then on the 17th of December EMS tracking showed you once more that the letter had been successfully delivered to Newcastle , I would have thought that the EMS tracking would have stopped at the first delivery point ( Wolverhampton ) , or am I reading it wrong

TL

[Mobi]

We have certainly rattled their cage.

I have just received a telephone call to my Thai mobile from a lady at the Newcastle pensions centre. (sounded just like Sarah Millican...)

She called to apologise profusely for all the confusion regarding the Life Certificates, and in particular about the Wolverhampton post centre that wasn't set up to sign for registered/couriered mail. (This was a point I raised when emailing and faxing and mailing my certificate...)

She told me that the signing problem had now been rectified.

She further confirmed that my faxed Life Certificate was fine and my account is up to date, but she emphasised that the the reason for ther call was to apologise about Wolverhampton.

Well... I guess you can't say fairer than that.

Gentlemen, we seem to have a result and are not quite so ignored and forgotten as we thought we were...

[ThaiLife]

We have certainly rattled their cage.

I have just received a telephone call to my Thai mobile from a lady at the Newcastle pensions centre. (sounded just like Sarah Millican...)

She called to apologise profusely for all the confusion regarding the Life Certificates, and in particular about the Wolverhampton post centre that wasn't set up to sign for registered/couriered mail. (This was a point I raised when emailing and faxing and mailing my certificate...)

She told me that the signing problem had now been rectified.

She further confirmed that my faxed Life Certificate was fine and my account is up to date, but she emphasised that the the reason for ther call was to apologise about Wolverhampton.

Well... I guess you can't say fairer than that.

Gentlemen, we seem to have a result and are not quite so ignored and forgotten as we thought we were...

Thanks for the update

Just out of curiosity what fax number did you use ?

TL

[jacky54]

why do they need it faxed? local authority pensions have been satisfied with an email return for years, they just want to see the signature.