Latvian tourist arrested in Nong Khai for using fake visa stamps

[stevenl]

Stamps are concidered FAKE as soon as they are put in your pasport in any illegal way.

That means that the stamp itselve can be genuin , but the way it got in the pasport is FAKE.

Imagine you hand over your pasport to an immigration officer that will provide his "service - Thai - style. "

The officer can even 'log' the exit-entry in the computer , but he will not be able to get the picture taken ( unless he holds the pasportpicture for the camera )

In this event , i guess that he used a landborder with "prepared" ( pre-payed ) services.

Remember that in the event an official officer that makes a mistake with the entry-stamp and let's say he notes down a wrong date ( entry + 90 days ) , that stamp can be considered fake as well as it is doesn't comply with the procedures.

On the other hand, if you want to brake the law, just but the stamps and ink at Kow San Bangkok .. for 500 Thb you have a full set.

You're confusing 'fake' with 'obtained in an illegal manner'.

Stamps are concidered FAKE as soon as they are put in your pasport in any illegal way. yes .... either way

And you base this on what?

[bkkcanuck8]

Stamps are concidered FAKE as soon as they are put in your pasport in any illegal way.

That means that the stamp itselve can be genuin , but the way it got in the pasport is FAKE.

Imagine you hand over your pasport to an immigration officer that will provide his "service - Thai - style. "

The officer can even 'log' the exit-entry in the computer , but he will not be able to get the picture taken ( unless he holds the pasportpicture for the camera )

In this event , i guess that he used a landborder with "prepared" ( pre-payed ) services.

Remember that in the event an official officer that makes a mistake with the entry-stamp and let's say he notes down a wrong date ( entry + 90 days ) , that stamp can be considered fake as well as it is doesn't comply with the procedures.

On the other hand, if you want to brake the law, just but the stamps and ink at Kow San Bangkok .. for 500 Thb you have a full set.

You're confusing 'fake' with 'obtained in an illegal manner'.

Stamps are concidered FAKE as soon as they are put in your pasport in any illegal way. yes .... either way

And you base this on what?

Simple logic probably. There is no special anti-counterfeiting features built into the stamp. It is the matter of a rubber mold stamp, no special ink, no holograms etc. If there is no record in their system, then logic would dictate that they did not put it in your passport - and thus they are fake. Now, it is up to you to prove that it is not... which my guess is that you cannot.

Now if they do find that they were stamped in their by an official -- in an fraudulent way.... you will be arrested for bribing an official because there would be no other reason for him to do that for you. I suspect this would even be more severe charge.

Edited December 14, 2014 by bkkcanuck8

[markbkk201399]

Stop thinking that all visa agents use fake stamps which is not true. I'm not promoting these visa agents for what they do but I do know a handful of visa agents in Pattaya and Bangkok and even the ones that are next door to Immigration there which they all say they work directly with Thai immigration. Why would they be right next door to immigration promoting their services?....You guys actuelly think immigration doesn't know what they do?..... I used visa agents in the past for extension of stays and all were real stamps, with officials receipts from immigration and never had a problem at the border ever. Yes I know times are changing in Thailand and officials are cracking down but as long as as theirs a mean to make extra income for the Thai immigration these visa agents and their services will never go away.

I used a visa agent 20 years ago. We all remember the wall. I really did not know it was illegal until the news reports started coming out. My stamp was fine but many were not. People who live in Thailand know. People who have not been here long do not. It is the company that is at fault not the tourist.

"It is the company that is at fault not the tourist."

It's the fault of both. It's also the fault of any publications or forums that benefit from the advertising revenue for these places.

"It is the company that is at fault not the tourist."

Almost sounds like the Thai officials talking about must be a foreigner because a Thai would never do that.... Now we have foreigners basically acting as apologists for individuals that do illegal acts... it is not the tourists fault.

[bkkcanuck8]

Stop thinking that all visa agents use fake stamps which is not true. I'm not promoting these visa agents for what they do but I do know a handful of visa agents in Pattaya and Bangkok and even the ones that are next door to Immigration there which they all say they work directly with Thai immigration. Why would they be right next door to immigration promoting their services?....You guys actuelly think immigration doesn't know what they do?..... I used visa agents in the past for extension of stays and all were real stamps, with officials receipts from immigration and never had a problem at the border ever. Yes I know times are changing in Thailand and officials are cracking down but as long as as theirs a mean to make extra income for the Thai immigration these visa agents and their services will never go away.

"It is the company that is at fault not the tourist."

Almost sounds like the Thai officials talking about must be a foreigner because a Thai would never do that.... Now we have foreigners basically acting as apologists for individuals that do illegal acts... it is not the tourists fault.

Of course Thai Immigration knows what is going on. A simple search on Google has Thai immigration warnings about fake stamps all over the place (many months ago). There are warnings of not going to the border with your passport. It does not absolve the buyer of his responsibility. If you buy stolen goods in America -- it is a crime. The standard for leniency is if you know or if you should have known (in other words... willful blindness is not a defense).

Sometimes corrupt immigration officers even sell (aka lose) their stamp themselves (there have been news stories in the searches before about Immigration officers arrested for it).

Have you actually read the extension form..... it says right on the application form "APPLICATION MUST BE MADE IN PERSON.". I actually take that statement seriously.

[stevenl]

Simple logic probably. There is no special anti-counterfeiting features built into the stamp. It is the matter of a rubber mold stamp, no special ink, no holograms etc. If there is no record in their system, then logic would dictate that they did not put it in your passport - and thus they are fake. Now, it is up to you to prove that it is not... which my guess is that you cannot.

Now if they do find that they were stamped in their by an official -- in an fraudulent way.... you will be arrested for bribing an official because there would be no other reason for him to do that for you. I suspect this would even be more severe charge.

Sorry, no. With that answer we're back to the first remark: there is a difference between 'fake' and obtained illegally'. Your answer does not answer the question.

[johncat1]

If he was a tourist how could he stay her that long ? Most tourist visas are 60 days. If he got a re-entry visa on June 25th he would have been well over his visa limit anyway.

Plus most neighbouring countries require a visa too so he would have to have had a visa and visa stamps for that country ( examples Laos and Cambodia ).

Sounds as if he was very naive and didn't know he was breaking the law.

[WhizBang]

When you entered Thailand you had your passport stamped by Thai Immigration. So you did nothing wrong or potentially wrong in Thailand. Thai immigration arrested him with fake stamps in the passport -- not Cambodian, not Laos. Whether the stamps were entered into the passport at the border while he sat in a cup sipping tea in Pattaya, or he just paid for the fake stamps in his passport.... he is responsible in both cases. There are a lot of warnings about it being illegal to send your passport to the border without you actually exiting. You are responsible for your passport. I am not prepared to give the tourist a walk on this one -- it is his passport, and he is responsible for it. Passports are worth a fortune on the black market, easily worth $40,000+. That is why you should not allow your passport to be taken by agents that are not agents of the government. Would you hand $40K to some stranger for them to handle for you?

I was not trying to confuse the case of the Latvian guy with my border run. Personally, I think the Latvian guy got scammed.

And my exit and reentry into Thailand was 100% legit as I handed the immigration officer my passport myself.

It was the Cambodian entry/exit part. Technically, it was probably illegal (depending on Cambodian laws) for us to not be present and present our passports personally. It was a convenience for us though. Less hassle.

The last time I did a mini van Poipet border run (over 10 years ago), we personally went through immigration on both sides.

Edited December 15, 2014 by WhizBang

[WhizBang]

Sorry, no. With that answer we're back to the first remark: there is a difference between 'fake' and obtained illegally'. Your answer does not answer the question.

To me, Fake would be where the visa shop/agent goes into the back room and puts the stamps into your passport.

Illegal, would be where you pay a government official to put the stamps into your passport, without you meeting all the requirements.

[OMGImInPattaya]

This scam is still ongoing...too bad for the Latvian there isn't at Latvian language Thai Visa forum.

[Loles]

How can the exit stamp be fake, you only get that at immigration checkpoint when leaving, unless he thought he could by that as well, people never learn, or maybe a mr fixer (it's a lot of them in pattaya) could make it easy

Just think about again and ask if you didn't get yet ...

[bkkcanuck8]

Simple logic probably. There is no special anti-counterfeiting features built into the stamp. It is the matter of a rubber mold stamp, no special ink, no holograms etc. If there is no record in their system, then logic would dictate that they did not put it in your passport - and thus they are fake. Now, it is up to you to prove that it is not... which my guess is that you cannot.

Now if they do find that they were stamped in their by an official -- in an fraudulent way.... you will be arrested for bribing an official because there would be no other reason for him to do that for you. I suspect this would even be more severe charge.

Sorry, no. With that answer we're back to the first remark: there is a difference between 'fake' and obtained illegally'. Your answer does not answer the question.

Well, neither actually apply since the laws are written in Thai. I am not an expert in the Thai language especially when it comes to the law like a Thai lawyer would be. Does the Thai language distinguish between the two?

i.e. Fake in English means it is not genuine; a forgery; a sham; or counterfeit. This can really cover both a "fake" or "obtained illegally" since they are both not "genuine" within the law.

English law may distinguish between the two, but Thai law may or may not distinguish between the two. We are reading a translation. A translation is not the original text - the legal text.

Either way both have severe consequences, both are illegal....

[lemonjelly]

should it not read as: "Tourist sent to gaol after being scammed by fake Thai visa agent"........ or is that a too uncomfortable truth?

[bkkcanuck8]

should it not read as: "Tourist sent to gaol after being scammed by fake Thai visa agent"........ or is that a too uncomfortable truth?

The headline is more accurate than yours. There is no proof that he was "scammed" or not, just that he was arrested for having fake entry/exit stamps in his passport.

He says that he did not know, but if he did know do you think he would say anything different?

Edited December 15, 2014 by bkkcanuck8

[minikev]

I used a visa agent 20 years ago. We all remember the wall. I really did not know it was illegal until the news reports started coming out. My stamp was fine but many were not. People who live in Thailand know. People who have not been here long do not. It is the company that is at fault not the tourist.

I did the same I got the name of the agent from a Telly commercial advertising their service. I remember queuing in the immigration for the next renewal stamp as the immigration police dished out huge fines for all that had used them. We all needed renewal stamps on the same day. They asked how I got mine and luckily I described a previous train journey and the name of the hotel I had previously stayed at and they let me go.

I know it sounds very naive but after it was advertised on the TV I didn't know it was illegal then. He's only young maybe he just got ripped by an agent?

[OJAS]

That immigration should get their finger out and give out some warnings at the airport.

And maybe foreign governments should start including appropriate warnings in the travel advice they provide for their citizens. Not a dickey-bird mention of the perils of using "visa agents" in the latest UK travel advice (https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/thailand) for instance.

That said, whether yer typical tourist actually bothers to read their government's travel advice - or, for that, matter, any Immigration notices at BKK after a 12-hour flight - is, of course, another matter altogether.

[paz]

The story clearly states that the stamps were fake, it does not suggest that they were obtained in a illegal manner as you state

Whoops not leaving yet, to say (again) that are assuming too much from the use of the word "fake" by a Thai journalist.

[visarunner]

me wonder that only one guy got arrested.

If these visa agents or whoever offer such services doing "fake" stamps than, IMHO, this and other forum would be full of news about arrested foreigners.

BTW on a visa run all is legit.

"Ghost" Runs are not possible anymore.

[ubonjoe]

I think there is a good chance there are a lot more people that this happens to that we never hear about. Perhaps immigration wanted this one published as a warning to others.

[chrisinth]

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I used a visa agent 20 years ago. We all remember the wall. I really did not know it was illegal until the news reports started coming out. My stamp was fine but many were not. People who live in Thailand know. People who have not been here long do not. It is the company that is at fault not the tourist.

In 2001 a 'friend' ( ) did a similar thing, through laziness I might add, and used an agency for a one year non-o multi. The visa came back (from Brisbane) and that was fine, but without the exit & entry stamps!

To add to this, the agency the 'friend' used was shut down about a month after the passport return and the Brisbane consulate put under the microscope. (The Scandinavian running the agency I believe was deported, but returned soon after). So, for the next 15 months, the 'friend' was bricking it every time he had to leave the country. The 'friend' also had to get a new passport (at the end of the last entry on this visa) and had to go to immigration to get the stamps moved over to the new one as he was leaving the country the same day. Not good for the blood pressure, as even in those days the 'friend's' in/out history was on computer, but thankfully, for the 'friend', nothing was spotted.

Not worth the grief..................

It may seem like a good idea at the time, but if anyone is considering using one of the agencies, either do a bit (a lot actually) of a background check, or get off your lazy ass and do it yourself legally.

My 'friend' highly endorses the above remarks.......................

[sarah1967]

He paid 26,000 baht for Thai visa for Russians Nationality website. a russian guy pick up his passport and they stamp for him with fake IM in and out after 3 months when fake stamp almost expired. he try to apply new visa in Royal thai Embassy in Lao. on the way out at the IM counter. they find out that no records as privious in and out stamps