Sydney siege: Gunman takes hostages in Lindt cafe

[Ulysses G.]

Someone said the window was thick plate glass and the shot might have missed and sent the loony Muslim into a rage. The snipers could not risk it.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Ulysses G.

[chooka]

Sad ! In the early stages, why the heck wasn't he taken out by a sniper when he was visible near the window ?!

Two innocent people died needlessly.

You have no idea. Ever been at a siege?

The two people died because of thier actions and not those of the police. They were courageous and need to be remembered for thier bravery. Yes they were heros but don't blame the police for thier deaths.

Edited December 16, 2014 by chooka

[MrWorldwide]

Sad ! In the early stages, why the heck wasn't he taken out by a sniper when he was visible near the window ?!

Two innocent people died needlessly.

As someone pointed out earlier, sheet glass introduces another set of variables for snipers - I'm not an expert but the explanation sounded plausible. They also have a protocol where they make every effort to resolve the situation without shooting people - clearly, in this case that wasnt going to happen. Given that neither of us were tasked with making those decisions, I'm happy to leave it to the professionals. When you compare today's outcome to terrorist attacks elsewhere and sieges like Waco, I believe the Police did well to limit the casualties to two people, as callous as that might sound.

[F4UCorsair]

Sad ! In the early stages, why the heck wasn't he taken out by a sniper when he was visible near the window ?!

Two innocent people died needlessly.

As someone pointed out earlier, sheet glass introduces another set of variables for snipers - I'm not an expert but the explanation sounded plausible. They also have a protocol where they make every effort to resolve the situation without shooting people - clearly, in this case that wasnt going to happen. Given that neither of us were tasked with making those decisions, I'm happy to leave it to the professionals. When you compare today's outcome to terrorist attacks elsewhere and sieges like Waco, I believe the Police did well to limit the casualties to two people, as callous as that might sound.

Plate glass may introduce another set of variables, but the ammunition available to the police services/military will smash its way through almost anything without deflection, take off the head of its target, and continue through a couple of layers of brick, and that, in my view, is what should have happened. Having said that, the police did do a great job, and I take nothing away from them.

By being decisive early, the police send a serious message, and as Emperor Qing said a couple of thousand years ago, "Kill one, frighten a thousand"

Edited December 16, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[weegee]

While you are still discussing this topic....

Remember i posted a few hours ago about 500 kids taken hostage in Pakistan? by the Taliban....

Well 84 of those kids are now DEAD....yes DEAD. And this is in a few hours of time.....

[cookee68]

He was an asylum seeker out on bail for taking part in the killing of his ex wife, sexual harassment 40 accounts threatening and he was given bail, What the <deleted> was they thinking, Just another scumbag of the diseased faith they believe in.

[Steely Dan]

The plethora of comments on this thread by the islamophobe, racist, bigots push the notion that the cause is related to islam

It's ALL about Islam.

The only ones who don't recognize the fact are those like yourself who want to ram multiculturalism and diversity down our throats at any cost. What happens to multiculturalism when those immigrants don't want to integrate to the home country's culture but demand you conform to theirs. Halal certification is just a small part of that. Why can't one be proud and defend homegrown white culture without being labeled racist, Islamophobe or bigot by some sad liberal social warrior with a hard on for 'old white men'?

Most white people I know think multiculturalism is a positive when the immigrants bring something to or strengthen the home culture. West Indian and Indian immigrants have added to the British culture. Has Islam? No. It's the most divisive, backward, medieval, barbaric cult out there who, as Bill Maher said, will f'ing kill you if you say (or do) the wrong thing.

And let's face it, 'diversity' is just a byword for 'anything but white'. It's up there with 'affirmative action'.

Just more apologist hyperbole excusing the Muslim terrorists actions by saying he was a lone wolf with mental issues or a court case was the trigger. Islam was the trigger. As show by the numerous atrocities in other countries.

Yet another attack.

And more deaths of innocents..

Common denominator in all of them is Islam.

And more apologists, denial and deflection.

You have it in a nutshell, Islam was the trigger, as it is with many radical Muslims and recent converts, who don't somehow misunderstand the trigger, they understand it perfectly and act on it.

[Steely Dan]

While you are still discussing this topic....

Remember i posted a few hours ago about 500 kids taken hostage in Pakistan? by the Taliban....

Well 84 of those kids are now DEAD....yes DEAD. And this is in a few hours of time.....

I see the 5000 body count for November is in more danger than Liberals are in of actually smelling the coffee.

[JockPieandBeans]

The plethora of comments on this thread by the islamophobe, racist, bigots push the notion that the cause is related to islam and the consequence is to stop immigration, deport people based on their skin colour and abandon multiculturalism

Of course he just had the black flag with arabic writing flying because he was a Christian !!

He had an Islamic Fundamentalist website because he was perhaps a Pagan !!

His FB page is littered with goodwill messages from other Muslims because he is a Hindu !!

TOO RIGHT IT WAS RELATED TO ISLAM

The sooner that apologists like you understand that Islam is not compatible with Civilized Societies the better it will be for all.

Edited December 16, 2014 by JockPieandBeans

[ozsamurai]

Sydney hostage-taker Hojat al-Islam Muhammad Hassan Manteqi is a cousin of Iran’s Islamic Chief Justice Amoli, according to Tehran sources

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/12/16/sydney-hostage-taker-hojat-al-islam-muhammad-hassan-manteqi-is-a-cousin-of-irans-islamic-chief-justice-amoli-according-to-tehran-sources/

[Mosha]

The plethora of comments on this thread by the islamophobe, racist, bigots push the notion that the cause is related to islam and the consequence is to stop immigration, deport people based on their skin colour and abandon multiculturalism

Of course he just had the black flag with arabic writing flying because he was a Christian !!

He had an Islamic Fundamentalist website because he was perhaps a Pagan !!

His FB page is littered with goodwill messages from other Muslims because he is a Hindu !!

TOO RIGHT IT WAS RELATED TO ISLAM

The sooner that apologists like you understand that Islam is not compatible with Civilized Societies the better it will be for all.

Oil and water.

[JockPieandBeans]

Sydney hostage-taker Hojat al-Islam Muhammad Hassan Manteqi is a cousin of Iran’s Islamic Chief Justice Amoli, according to Tehran sources

http://themuslimissue.wordpress.com/2014/12/16/sydney-hostage-taker-hojat-al-islam-muhammad-hassan-manteqi-is-a-cousin-of-irans-islamic-chief-justice-amoli-according-to-tehran-sources/

ozsamurai

I think a lot of them are related through interbreeding.

Certainly the Muslims of Pakistani heritage are keen on marrying off to cousins etc.

It could explain the large amount of nutjobs.

[Chicog]

They do that to keep the family wealth in the family.

And yes, hereditary diseases abound because of it, sadly not too many terminal ones.

[Ulysses G.]

And yes, hereditary diseases abound because of it, sadly not too many terminal ones.

You do come up with a good one every once in a while.

[H1w4yR1da]

Apparently, the info below is a little out of date. Muslims make up 2.2 not 1.5 % of the population.

This makes an interesting read.

What happens to countries that Muslims occupy?

As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:

United States -- Muslim 0.6%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5% (2.2%)
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1.8%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%


At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs. This is happening in:

Denmark -- Muslim 2%

AUSTRALIA -- 2 2%

Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%


From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for
Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%


At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.


When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris , we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam , with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:

Guyana – Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 15%


After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%


At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Nigeria – Muslim 50.4%
Chad – Muslim 50.3%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%


From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and ***ya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:

Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%


After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

ADDED:

In future please supply a link to material to the source.

Edited December 16, 2014 by soundman
Added link.

[jpeg]

The plethora of comments on this thread by the islamophobe, racist, bigots push the notion that the cause is related to islam and the consequence is to stop immigration, deport people based on their skin colour and abandon multiculturalism

Of course he just had the black flag with arabic writing flying because he was a Christian !!

He had an Islamic Fundamentalist website because he was perhaps a Pagan !!

His FB page is littered with goodwill messages from other Muslims because he is a Hindu !!

TOO RIGHT IT WAS RELATED TO ISLAM

The sooner that apologists like you understand that Islam is not compatible with Civilized Societies the better it will be for all.

Well I agreed up to 'civilised societies'. My postings on this forum reflect my antipathy toward Islamification of societies other than their's per se, but, I have met some very civilised muslims both here and in the west. However, they'd been educated. Rather akin to posters on this site, myself included, denigrating some of the citizens of this Buddhist country (on a bad day ). However, when Buddhists get pissed off they merely whine and complain, in the main, they DON'T go around taking hostages and threatening to behead/blow 'em up!

[uptheos]

Abbott: Why was Sydney siege gunman not on terror list?

Shouldn't he know?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-30490696

Edited December 16, 2014 by uptheos

[jpinx]

The plethora of comments on this thread by the islamophobe, racist, bigots push the notion that the cause is related to islam and the consequence is to stop immigration, deport people based on their skin colour and abandon multiculturalism

Of course he just had the black flag with arabic writing flying because he was a Christian !!

He had an Islamic Fundamentalist website because he was perhaps a Pagan !!

His FB page is littered with goodwill messages from other Muslims because he is a Hindu !!

TOO RIGHT IT WAS RELATED TO ISLAM

The sooner that apologists like you understand that Islam is not compatible with Civilized Societies the better it will be for all.

Well I agreed up to 'civilised societies'. My postings on this forum reflect my antipathy toward Islamification of societies other than their's per se, but, I have met some very civilised muslims both here and in the west. However, they'd been educated. Rather akin to posters on this site, myself included, denigrating some of the citizens of this Buddhist country (on a bad day ). However, when Buddhists get pissed off they merely whine and complain, in the main, they DON'T go around taking hostages and threatening to behead/blow 'em up!

Buddhists have been involved in plenty of wars -- SriLanka, Tibet, even Japan GIYF

[F430murci]

I saw an interview with one guy from one of these groups who runs a program to deradicalize young Muslims. Can't recall his name.

It is easier said than done, since they become radicalized in the first place for complex different reasons.

Would his name have been Mohamed by any chance? They do NOT become radicalised for complex reasons, they are just 'good' Muslims following the koran literally. They can only become de radicalised if they renounce the Koran and the prophet because that is where this all begins, and it has been going on for 1400 years. About 250 million lives have been lost to these radicals since the man heard the voices in the cave.

People or groups of people that always have an excuse and that excuse generally involves someone else are pathetic. They will never change or become something better.

[Tep]

The plethora of comments on this thread by the islamophobe, racist, bigots push the notion that the cause is related to islam and the consequence is to stop immigration, deport people based on their skin colour and abandon multiculturalism

Of course he just had the black flag with arabic writing flying because he was a Christian !!

He had an Islamic Fundamentalist website because he was perhaps a Pagan !!

His FB page is littered with goodwill messages from other Muslims because he is a Hindu !!

TOO RIGHT IT WAS RELATED TO ISLAM

The sooner that apologists like you understand that Islam is not compatible with Civilized Societies the better it will be for all.

Your infatuation with me is beyond creepy. Go back to the Rotherham thread and play with your other deviant buddies. A one trick pony. Your bigotry has nothing to benefit Australia. If and when the Australian authorities identify islam as a cause of this event, I will then take note. No amount of capitalisation, bold text and underlining places you in any position to know better than them. Juvenile behaviour.

You have been called out as a stalker by more than one poster and you continue to stalk me and address posts to me despite being told not to. Your own behaviour is not compatible with civilised society.

[MrWorldwide]

I'm not on board with a lot of the anti-Islam rants in this thread, but I do have an issue with a hardcore element within the middle-eastern population of Sydney that I believe goes way beyond religion. I doubt that there will be any serious reprisals against Muslims - fingers crossed - but I would pose this question : if a mentally ill Anglo-Celtic Australian took hostages in the Lakemba Mosque and 2 people died as a result, would the community in south-western Sydney simply accept that it was the work of a lone wolf or would there be payback ?

The Australians who were savagely beaten after the Cronulla riots had absolutely nothing to do with the rioting - their attackers simply wanted someone to vent their fury on. I dont think we've seen the end of this madness in Sydney and I have little doubt that there are people on both sides of the divide who would relish the opportunity to act out some sort of sick 'gangsta' fantasy. I wonder how many of the cowards involved in the revenge attacks even had the guts to go to Syria ? Pathetic excuses for human beings.

A 26-year-old mechanic dubbed “Dan" was stabbed in the back three times and twice in the thigh with a 9.8-centimetre (3.9 in) blade at approximately 22:25.^[18][22][23] The incident occurred outside Woolooware golf club when two cars carrying a group of males “described as being of Mediterranean or Middle Eastern appearance” approached the man and his friends. Dan and his friends attempted to flee from the group who were shouting “Get the Aussie dogs ... get the Aussie sluts”, Dan was knocked to the ground and was repeatedly kicked in the head. The attack ended when the knife snapped off in the victim's back.^[22][23] He was taken to hospital in a serious condition as the blade had narrowly missed his spine and lungs.^[18][19][23]

Jake Schofield was attacked by a group of four men of “Middle Eastern appearance”, the men beat Schofield repeatedly, stabbing him twice and hitting him with a piece of concrete before stealing his wallet and keys. The attack left him with a fractured eye socket and nose

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Cronulla_riots

[jacky54]

I think Geert knows what he is on about, maybe the cocky presenter might be having second thoughts?

[chooka]

The plethora of comments on this thread by the islamophobe, racist, bigots push the notion that the cause is related to islam and the consequence is to stop immigration, deport people based on their skin colour and abandon multiculturalism

Of course he just had the black flag with arabic writing flying because he was a Christian !!

He had an Islamic Fundamentalist website because he was perhaps a Pagan !!

His FB page is littered with goodwill messages from other Muslims because he is a Hindu !!

TOO RIGHT IT WAS RELATED TO ISLAM

The sooner that apologists like you understand that Islam is not compatible with Civilized Societies the better it will be for all.

Your infatuation with me is beyond creepy. Go back to the Rotherham thread and play with your other deviant buddies. A one trick pony. Your bigotry has nothing to benefit Australia. If and when the Australian authorities identify islam as a cause of this event, I will then take note. No amount of capitalisation, bold text and underlining places you in any position to know better than them. Juvenile behaviour.

You have been called out as a stalker by more than one poster and you continue to stalk me and address posts to me despite being told not to. Your own behaviour is not compatible with civilised society.

this guy did it in the name of islam, carrying a sign praising and worshiping mohamed and the Islamic faith. He was a cleric and preached to others. How can you distant islam from this.

[F4UCorsair]

While you are still discussing this topic....

Remember i posted a few hours ago about 500 kids taken hostage in Pakistan? by the Taliban....

Well 84 of those kids are now DEAD....yes DEAD. And this is in a few hours of time.....

The toll is now 141, latest news this morning. The religion of peace.

[F4UCorsair]

The plethora of comments on this thread by the islamophobe, racist, bigots push the notion that the cause is related to islam and the consequence is to stop immigration, deport people based on their skin colour and abandon multiculturalism

Of course he just had the black flag with arabic writing flying because he was a Christian !!

He had an Islamic Fundamentalist website because he was perhaps a Pagan !!

His FB page is littered with goodwill messages from other Muslims because he is a Hindu !!

TOO RIGHT IT WAS RELATED TO ISLAM

The sooner that apologists like you understand that Islam is not compatible with Civilized Societies the better it will be for all.

Your infatuation with me is beyond creepy. Go back to the Rotherham thread and play with your other deviant buddies. A one trick pony. Your bigotry has nothing to benefit Australia. If and when the Australian authorities identify islam as a cause of this event, I will then take note. No amount of capitalisation, bold text and underlining places you in any position to know better than them. Juvenile behaviour.

You have been called out as a stalker by more than one poster and you continue to stalk me and address posts to me despite being told not to. Your own behaviour is not compatible with civilised society.

this guy did it in the name of islam, carrying a sign praising and worshiping mohamed and the Islamic faith. He was a cleric and preached to others. How can you distant islam from this.

You can't chooka, and only the very worst of the apologists attempt to do so. Disgraceful religion.

Tep, the Australian authorities won't identify islam as a contributing factor because of ridiculous, pathetic political correctness, and to be a touch cynical, both major parties are chasing the votes from the muslim ghettos of western Sydney. We can't upset the muslims.....at any cost.

In fact, our government, successive governments, go to great lengths to not upset ANY minority groups. It's OK that minority groups can do and say whatever they wish about their hosts in this country, but if those of us in the majority say a word against a minority, the law is on you.

Edited December 16, 2014 by F4UCorsair

[NeverSure]

A cafe/sweetie shop is one thing, but I'd like to see one of these bozos try a stunt like that in a pub.

...in Texas.

3 seconds.

[Schmackos]

To my Australian friends, I am truly sorry for your loss.

I hope this doesn't tarnish Australia's reputation as a fun place to visit.

[chooka]

To my Australian friends, I am truly sorry for your loss.

I hope this doesn't tarnish Australia's reputation as a fun place to visit.

nah we still have cold frothies in the Esky for when you come down.

[neverdie]

To my Australian friends, I am truly sorry for your loss.

I hope this doesn't tarnish Australia's reputation as a fun place to visit.

nah we still have cold frothies in the Esky for when you come down.

It's a much safer than 'other' countries which have similar types of incidents, almost daily.

Australia has had a few terrorist related attacks over the years, but they are the 'exception' and not the 'norm'.

[NamKAheng]

More than 40 Australian Muslim groups on Monday jointly condemned a siege at a Sydney cafe in which hostages were taken by an armed man and an Islamic flag displayed.

Can those 40 Australian Muslim groups tell me where are the Muslim demonstrators against that kind of violence, I don't see any on the street but they were there for a cartoon in 2012. Those groups condemn the siege only because their a.. are in the frying pan.

The Muslim community should take action before it happened not after.